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Hrothmus
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 Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 16:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
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I am going to make a ranger and I want him to use a bow... so which one do i need to focus in?
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Characters:
Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 16:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Whichever makes IC sense. The best store-bought bows are all longbows (Enchanted Ash, Hunter's Bow, Etc), yet there are plenty of good shortbows - enough so that you can get by with the minor trade off. At Epic, both longbow and shortbow have the Seeking epic-loot, and Seeking Shortbows are usually both cheap, and readily available, as most merchants are more than happy to get rid of them.
So, really, it comes down to what fits your character. The smaller, lighter, more maneuverable and somewhat concealable shortbow - or the heavier, long-range (Rply) marksman's, though cumbersome, weapon of choice?
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Hrothmus
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 17:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
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Hmm, as far as Rp reasons I just narrowed it down to a bow... my initial thought would be shortbow.
I just wanted some kind of bow that he could sling over his back when tracking and then whip out and crock off a shot when needed. I just want a regular bow realistically but i have to decide one of the other it seems. so as far as damage shortbow and longbow are pretty equal then?
_________________
Characters:
Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 17:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Yep. The Shortbow has -slightly- less damage. 1d6 vs 1d8. But ultimately that comes down to a mere 1 damage on average, so it's really nothing worth fussing over.
If it's a secondary weapon, or one he uses when needed - as opposed to his main tool - I'd suggest the Shortbow. It's small, maneuverable, and as a result - far less likely to be hindered by dense forestland, or other relatively-restrictive areas. Works a treat in cavernous areas, too. A longbow is usually -slightly- taller than the weilder, so that should give you an idea of how large a full longbow is, and thus the troubles of using it as a secondary.
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Mostly Retired
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Goblin
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 17:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Depends on your character style.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 18:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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And race. Bearing in mind anyone shorter than an elf can really only use the shortbow anyhow. The draw on any real longbow can be quite a lot to handle so its worth bearing that in mind with whatever character you create. I always wonder about an elf or human with only 8 str and their ability to hold a draw for any amount of time to really aim.
_________________ Siggy by Maryn
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Silvarus
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Posted: Wed, Sep 29 2010, 18:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Athyonn Ursidae wrote: And race. Bearing in mind anyone shorter than an elf can really only use the shortbow anyhow. The draw on any real longbow can be quite a lot to handle so its worth bearing that in mind with whatever character you create. I always wonder about an elf or human with only 8 str and their ability to hold a draw for any amount of time to really aim. DnD and weapons make no sense in any part of the mechanics. Longbows are just one example among many. We just have to take them as weird abstractions.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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The Peacock
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Posted: Thu, Sep 30 2010, 0:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Two people were used for British long-bows, until they optimized it with composite wood to make the draw-back less like turning a car without auto-steering.
_________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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davis114
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Posted: Fri, Oct 01 2010, 4:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Shortbows suck. Longbows don't.
_________________  MoshingChris wrote: Dude makes like a drunk even when he's sober.
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Brighti
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Posted: Fri, Oct 01 2010, 8:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Location: Portmouth, England
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Longbows are epic, simply because there are so many famous longbow users. The british elite longbowmen, Robin hood, many others. Shortbows? Mnyeh..
_________________
Account: INSTINCT92
Current:
Lekssctun Krzlic
Makast Thix, The Rabbit
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Goblin
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Posted: Fri, Oct 01 2010, 9:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Can't really knock the shortbow. You can get all the power of a longbow into a short composite bow, it might be bullplop but I've heard the Native American plains people had such powerful shortbows that they could shoot through an adult bison into the calf beside it.
The success also of Genghis Khan's Mongols who carried powerful compound bows to harrass the enemy from horseback. The Turks who also used this strategy to great success with equally, or even more powerful composite bows.
Even today there are men who practice archery with the shortbow against tiny, tiny targets with incredible accuracy.
It might be unfair to call most of these bows 'shortbow' but they're certainly not big enough to be called longbow if you go by the ones traditionally used in the English armies.
But Amia isn't real life and you can only go by whats available. Your composite shortbow/longbow won't fall apart in the rain. Your shortbow won't be as powerful as your longbow, and you'll never have an advantage over a longbow user if you choose a shortbow. From an IC perspective you should be as comfortable with either variation without having to feel inadequate, with the knowledge of historically accurate awesome little bows doing the pew-pew too.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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VinceKlortho
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Posted: Fri, Oct 01 2010, 18:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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Historically the shortbow was invented for use on horseback, whereas the longbow was used by infantry - the one exception is the Japanese daikyu, an oddly-proportioned longbow used by mounted samurai.
Also, the difference would be in materials. Longbows were almost exclusively ash or yew, while shortbows were usually made from horn and recurved.
Personally I always go with a longbow for the extra damage, but there are definite RP reasons to choose one over the other.
-VK
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Fri, Oct 01 2010, 19:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Shortbows were more commonly found amongst peasentry and hunters in those feudal times. Given the extra work and craft that went into a decent longbow they were inherantly more expensive. Those who owned them were like as not those who could also make them.
_________________ Siggy by Maryn
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Sat, Oct 02 2010, 1:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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longbows are HUGE, I kinda see it as...do you want a siege weapon or a practical weapon..longbows arnt practical in my mind..shortbows are...they are fast usefull, you can use them pretty much anywhere..i say go shortbow it rocks! and is cool
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sat, Oct 02 2010, 14:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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NWN has this issue. It wants to put in different variations of weapons, but the engine simply doesn't simulate the differences well enough. Example. Shortbows probably easier to fire, and thus faster. But in NWN, they fire at exactly the same speed.
Then there is cool factor. The tiny little shortbow isn't so cool looking as the big meaty longbow. It's like owning a Shotgun & a Pistol. The Pistol is generally easier to use, lighter, more accurate at longer ranges, and easier to buy. The Shotgun however, while being more cumbersome, complicated to use and less accurate at longer ranges, is more powerful when it hits, and looks way cooler when you rob a bank.
Personally I think it comes down to what type of character you have. If they are less concerned about what people think of their choice of weapon and not so speclized in the use of that weapon, they will probably go shortbow. If they take a keen interest in combat, and are more interested in the use of their weapon, they will choose longbow.
Longbows are the speacialist choice, Shortbows are the "I need to defend myself" choice. Which is why rogues get Shortbow spec for free!
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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QPR
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Posted: Sat, Oct 02 2010, 23:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Rogues don't. They get the profiency. And ofcourse, cool rogues use shortbows. I wish NwN had strenght requirement on bows like BG 2 had.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Sunkin Sheep
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Posted: Mon, Oct 04 2010, 17:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: San Frantastic, California
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Right, Samrael is my example.
She uses a short-bow because a long bow's frame is too wide for her arms, and she isn't very buff.
However! She claims to make up for it with speed. At any rate, I haven't seen much difference in
function between the two kinds of bows, albeit, it is much easier to find a good long bow, than it is
for a short bow. (But it feels more rewarding when you do come across something good!)
So play it by ear, make sure it suits your RP.
_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown
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Hrothmus
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Posted: Mon, Oct 04 2010, 19:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
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I ended up switching to longbow. I picture him out in the woods stalking a deer and I can't see him drawing back a puny shortbow and taking a big buck down. I like the thought of him drawing back a huge longbow and dropping the deer in one shot.
_________________
Characters:
Fel'Brin - I am one with the shadows
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Kudark
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Posted: Mon, Oct 04 2010, 20:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Ted Nugent uses a shortbow...
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Oct 04 2010, 20:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Shortbows are hunting bows. Longbows are war bows and rather unsuited for hunting animals as they are used in volleys against massed opponents. If you want to hunt deer, you use a shortbow. In RL anyway, FR is different I guess.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Tue, Oct 05 2010, 2:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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while i said that the longbow is traditionally more a siege weapon, or atleast only used for mass combat, with large armies, then this is mostly because its incredibly hard to fire properly even if trained, i have fired one, and even the trainer who showed me how, said that it was impossible to fire it accurately without using a arched position, this being a 45 degree angle, you simply need that angle to get a good enough pull, also a longbow needs some distance to gain its powerfull penetration (giggidy), and compared to a shortbow it is incredibly inaccurate, but it has range, so i would say...that combat wise the longbow is suited for war, the shortbow for hunting
what people sometimes forget, is that the longbow was a superweapon of its time, designed for war, not by a random hunter who just needed a bigger bow, this was a highly researched and national weapon development that gave England the edge in europe for many many years...it gave them so big a edge in warfare that it was required by law that all men must train with thier longbow, and the longbow, in the spirit of the weapon should be viewed as a weapon of war, along with the heavy crossbow. Both are for grand battles, not for hunting.
...that being said...
Faerun dosnt really care it seems, elves seems to be firering these monsters hanging from thier feet upside down in trees, while picking thier nose, so your good for both and honerstly if you can take longbow take it, it deals more damage has greater range and so forth.
Just if you want to stay true to the spirit of the original real life historical weapon, i would probably not recommend a longbow for hunting.
((ps, if it interests you, to give you an idea of how huge a longbow is, a grown mans bow is around 1,80 meters tall, so needless to say very encumbersome in a dungeon.
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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phalanxyrian
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: under your bed (the netherlands)
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Yes and firing a bow with a drought of 140 "lbs" regularly also turns you into a freak because your arm muscles will grow way to large.
So also I will say that a shortbow, or horsebow is a lot more practical for hunting, dungeon crawling and skirmishes. Of course amia doesn't have a normal bow say 1.50 m.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Alright, this opens up something interesting.
Dm's reading this, is there any plans in the future to make the Shortbow a more desirable weapon? Perhaps giving rogues weapon focus in Shortbow for free?
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No. Why?
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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TormakSaber wrote: No. Why? Well its just an underused, under supplied, weapon thats pretty much not worth using when you have longbows, which are generally much better. You get less damage per hit and no advantages over longbow. Edit: Oh wait, I think the crit threat is slightly higher, but not enough to justify the loss since most archers don't crit all that often from what I've seen.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The threat isn't higher.
Some weapons are better, yes. Light hammers are 1d4. Should they get free bonuses because light maces are 1d6? No.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 20:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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TormakSaber wrote: The threat isn't higher.
Some weapons are better, yes. Light hammers are 1d4. Should they get free bonuses because light maces are 1d6? No. Something to make them worth using would be nice though. As Amia doesn't conform to the normal idea that these weapons are more common then their better counterparts.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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swe_west_coast
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Posted: Fri, Oct 22 2010, 15:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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If you want to have a bow using halfling or gnome, you can only use a shortbow. Same goes for all subraces (svirf, goblin, fey and so on) depending on those races. The reason for using a shortbow is that if you use a longbow, you have to carry around and stand on a stool if you're a gnome or hin. If you're not a gnome or hin, you'll use a longbow instead. It's as easy as that.
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phalanxyrian
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Posted: Fri, Oct 22 2010, 19:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: under your bed (the netherlands)
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There are good short bows available, you just need to know where to look. My woodland scum uses one and quite effectively aswell.
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