Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia
When it comes to things with SR, I'll just hit them with my arm. The general combat plan for this is Quickened Haste, Epic Mage Armour, either Winterwight or Wail, then the arm. Some variation of that. Kinda worried about Freedom and Shadow Shield screwing the last part up, though.
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
wereguy2 wrote:
When it comes to things with SR, I'll just hit them with my arm. The general combat plan for this is Quickened Haste, Epic Mage Armour, either Winterwight or Wail, then the arm. Some variation of that. Kinda worried about Freedom and Shadow Shield screwing the last part up, though.
So I'm considering a new character, this one a mostly Underdark drowess. My problem is I have never played a drow, though I am trying to learn as much as I can about them before I make the character.
First, though, I have a question on subraces. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Drow states that Drows get the following in NWN (default): * Ability adjustments: +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con * Darkvision: Drow can see in the dark. * Sleeplessness: Immune to spells and effects of the sleep subtype. * Hardiness vs. enchantments: +2 racial bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells. * Iron will: +2 racial bonus on will saving throws. * Skill affinity (listen): +2 racial bonus to listen checks. * Skill affinity (search): +2 racial bonus to search checks. * Skill affinity (spot): +2 racial bonus to spot checks. * Keen senses: Drow make active search checks automatically and with no movement penalties. * Spell resistance: Innate spell resistance of 11 plus 1 per level. * Light blindness: Abrupt exposure to light blinds a drow for 1 round. In addition, drow suffer a -1 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, saves and checks while operating in bright light. * Spell ability - darkness: Can cast darkness once per day at third level. * Spell ability - faerie fire: Can cast faerie fire once per day at third level. * Elven: Drow are considered elven for the purpose of spells.
http://www.amiaworld.net/about/subraces ... _drow.html states the following: Abilities: +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma; Spell Resistance = 11 + Class Level; Feat: Darkvision; Saving Throw Bonus: +2 Will Saves versus Spells and Spell-like Abilities; Spell-like Ability: Darkness; Light Sensitivity; Level Adjustment: +2
My questions are, simply: Does the Drow subrace still get the +2 Listen/Search/Spot and Keen Senses (always using Search checks) that the Elves get? I do not know if anything stacks from the sub and main races, or if the subrace overrides everything. I am guessing that the Drow only get what is listed on the Amia Subrace page for them, correct?
Also, would I be right in assuming that the spells Darkness and Faerie Fire are not given to Drow? Just want to know what all is given to those evil lil buggers.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Oh gawd, I just noticed that I pasted in that Drow get Darkness XD
So do you mean that +2 Listen/Search/Spot and Keen Senses (always using Search checks) are not given to them as well?
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Those are general Elf things (which is why it is not listed).
That's what I was thinking, but then, well, this:
ainjyll wrote:
From the feat list of my former drow character, Bree'nye:
Darkvision Immunity To Sleep Hardiness Versus Enchantments Skill Aff: Listen Skill Aff: Search Skill Aff: Spot Keen Sense Weap Prof: Elf
You'll also get Spell Resistance = 11 + Class Level, Light Sensitivity and a widget that allows you to cast Darkness.
The faerie fire is available for some DC's (Can't remember exactly how many at the moment).
lol Thanks to you both, though!
So, now, I just need to worry about classes. Since I want to make a female, I was thinking some Cleric would be nice. But my main goal for her is to be an sneaky, assassin type drowess. Her cover is to be more compliant to higher ranked females, but not take crap from everyone. Even if it ends up getting her into trouble. She will be, essentially, biding her time as her skills and [her assassin self's] prestige grows. Then, it will be time for her to payback those she despises.
I was thinking maybe a mix of cleric/rogue/sd? But I don't know for sure. Rogue is gonna be needed, of course
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
*nods* Yeah, I thought it was rather odd of an idea, and wasn't seriously considering it. Only way I can think of to make that work would be to take cleric levels after said 'rise to power'. That way it would more firmly establish her presence in the community. But, then, it's more fun to be able to flat out kill those that oppose your 'cover self' muwahah
Yep, so I know Rogue is a good class for sure, but I'm not sure on SD or assassin or both. I'm not too keen on the NWN version of assassin, though SD is a definite boon for stalking and killing a person. Although, the ability to cast Invisibility and Improved Invisibility would be rather useful.
I dunno. Any thoughts on classes for a female drow assassin? My initial ideas are: 10 Rogue/10 SD/10 Assassin 20 Rogue/10 SD 20 Rogue/10 Assassin 15 Rogue/10 SD/5 Assassin
I can see a good number of benefits of each, and varying levels of disgustingness, though I'm just not sure on a solid mix. Any help would be appreciated.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Yep, so I know Rogue is a good class for sure, but I'm not sure on SD or assassin or both. I'm not too keen on the NWN version of assassin, though SD is a definite boon for stalking and killing a person. Although, the ability to cast Invisibility and Improved Invisibility would be rather useful.
I dunno. Any thoughts on classes for a female drow assassin? My initial ideas are: 10 Rogue/10 SD/10 Assassin 20 Rogue/10 SD 20 Rogue/10 Assassin 15 Rogue/10 SD/5 Assassin
I can see a good number of benefits of each, and varying levels of disgustingness, though I'm just not sure on a solid mix. Any help would be appreciated.
Alright, first off.... Lolthite drows get it easy because Lolth supports the Trickery domain, meaning that as a cleric you can get Imp Invis and still have a diety-supported domain.
Second. None of those combinations for your character will work. They all have 30 levels and drow have a +2 ECL, meaning you only have 28 levels to work with.
Third. Bit of lore on the drow, for ya. A bard (a.k.a. linthar) in drow society was the foremost assassin. It's considered to be a huge social faux pas to deny entry to your house to a bard. So, because of that bards became the premier assassins because they had the easiest time getting into houses.
So, I've always been partial to drow assassin builds with bard in them. Perhaps a pretty straightforward bard 22/sd 6.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
Good advice there, and I didn't know about the bard part. See? I keep learnin stuff! lol Funny thing, a bard drow always seems silly to me. I'm not knocking it, but a singing drow strikes me a funny XD
That is good to know, though. Perhaps, even, some bard levels in general would help out. That can easily play into her cover, as well, though perhaps it would be better saved for when she actually assassinates someone. Keeping them separate is key, of course, and if her cover is a bard, it can easily be used for information gathering as well.
Hmm maybe 13 Bard/10 SD/5 ??? I dunno, just wondering how far I should really go in Bard levels. I don't see her as performing much for the benefit of others
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
So, was thinking perhaps 13 Bard/5 Rogue/10 SD That would allow me to get a decent amount of Hide/MS and 3d6 sneak attack, plus all the lovely SD abilities, and also level 5 Bard spells. Stats, I'm thinking at least a 16 DEX and CHA after mods, then probably upping DEX all the time to improve sneaking and AC (going to use light armor only); plus taking Weap Finesse is a good idea I think.
Spells would focus on hindering enemies and such, rather than worrying about healing. Some buffs would be nice, though, perhaps like Haste. Thoughts on that?
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
13 is bollocks... add one more and go 14 so you get +3 to your AC from your Bard Song instead of +2. If you're okay with +2, then stop on 11. There's also not any real great 5th level bard spells, unless you count metamagic.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
Hm good point. 11 would be a better idea, perhaps, or even 15 so I can get even better bonuses to almost everything. Bah, oh well.
So maybe 15 Bard/7(8) SD/5(6) Rogue to get slippery mind and the 3d6 SA (plus either +1 Fort/Ref/Will or +1 Ref and a Shadow Evade boost to 10/+2 15% +3 AC), or perhaps just 15 Bard/10 SD/3 Rogue for all the SD stuff and 2d6 SA.
Choices... choices
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
SD gets some decent bonuses, too. Summon Shadow and Shadow Daze can be rather useful.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
I'm really undecided. I like the slippery mind and auto imp evasion, plus the benefit of a little buddy to summon. But I dunno. Plus, I have no idea what the stats (abilities and skills and otherwise) would look like in the end XD For stats, I was thinking for at least starting with a 14 in DEX and CHA each, since prolly a 12 in INT (since they all get +2)
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
Make a bard without lasting winspiration. And you fail
_________________
The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
Yeah, I have been thinking that taking the Rogue levels are kinda unneeded, they were mostly for the extra skills and such. But I'm going to try and focus on having Hide/MS maxed, having some Lore and a good deal of Bluff/Persuade, and get Perform to whatever level I need it based upon her Bard levels.
6 SD min sounds good, just cause of HiPS being so great for a killer, though I don't -need- 10 levels of it; that was just for the extra benefits the class gives.
The Ranger level would kinda hurt, but only cause of further giving an XP penalty (on top of the ECL +2 one) for that level of Ranger taken.
I have been looking at the Amian improvements on Assassin, however, and I know that the use of poison would be fitting for a drow assassin. Though, I can't get Imp Invis from it and get higher than Bard 13 with HiPS, so that's semi not good. In respect of Assassin levels, what about 11 Bard/7 SD/10 Assassin
fake edit: I guess the first question would be: To make the drowess assassin work in respect of lore and all that, what would be the best class range to use for the character concept?
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Whatever really.
I've always found the Assassin PrC somewhat odd because a Weapon Master can be an Assassin just as readily as some Paladins or Paladinesque classes can engage in and order Assassinations (Paladins of Horus Re are renowned in Mulhorand for it).
Realistically you should build to your play style. The best kind of Assassin smacks out large amounts of Damage, so Dev Crit could be an option for you. (My old Linthar was a Dev Bard). Or heavy sneaks.
A good option for you might be a Strength based Blackguard for instance.
Really depends on what type of Assassin you want to be.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
*nod* True. I'm personally going for the type that can sneak in and deal some hefty damage before they can react.
The one thing, though, with Assassins I was wondering is how poison works on the server? Like, so you buy poisons and stuff like that? I don't think I've ever encountered it
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
Naivatkal wrote:
*nod* True. I'm personally going for the type that can sneak in and deal some hefty damage before they can react.
The one thing, though, with Assassins I was wondering is how poison works on the server? Like, so you buy poisons and stuff like that? I don't think I've ever encountered it
There will be an update on Assassins; And how their Poisons work, But the Development team isn't releasing any details yet. Expect it to be juicy thought, Considering how the class looks atm.
Either way; I wish to chime in on the assassin topic and Suggest; - That you do not follow the SD/Rogue/Assassin line; And go for One-Hit-Dev-Kill. - That The power of Traps; Vastly surpasses any sneak attack or Bigby fist, If properly lined up. - That adding Monk in the Mix could grant you some crazy amounts of attacks; while speeding you up to escape enemies and Corner-Sneak.
dev crit throwing knives with hips and death attack damage.
that said how are you going to get epic dodge/improved evasion/the feats that keep you alive, with a dev crit path? (imo nothing wrong with rouge/assassin/sd...) also monk/sd is well known for its awesomeness =) add assassin for the win, but idk about you guys but anything less than 20 monk isn't worth the monk.
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
Glyph wrote:
dev crit throwing knives with hips and death attack damage.
that said how are you going to get epic dodge/improved evasion/the feats that keep you alive, with a dev crit path? (imo nothing wrong with rouge/assassin/sd...) also monk/sd is well known for its awesomeness =) add assassin for the win, but idk about you guys but anything less than 20 monk isn't worth the monk.
Halfling right?
In all honesty; That combo is goddamn nasty. Because AC Won't be a problem since you're gonna attack people that are Flat footed nonstop.
What do you think would work? 24Rogue/6SD; STR Based?
not sure where you got halfling from but in that case, strongheart muchly. buff strength all the way to 25 followed closely by dex for various reasons.
but that would make it 22 rouge/6sd, imo, would be better to drop SD in favour of assassin thus improved invis, and an epic sneaking stat aswell as death attack. that would up the damage and you could still corner sneak everyone and their grandma, with some luck, and improved invis...
if you epic focus hide/move silent, you could probably hips without hips, once you get around 80, well need I say more, only AA's have that much spot skill. if that.
this is deffinatly one i'd think about, dev crit rouges are sort of against the grain of the classes, but it should be doable. maybe 20 rouge /8 sd for improved evasion, which is amazing.
ed: stats would have to be: str 18, dex 16, int 14, everything else 10 if possible. before subrace changes...im in a bit of a rush so i'd need to check that one later. (gah not thinking, int would be if you take assassin instead of SD.)
ed: scratch what I just wrote here, would focus on getting dev, and add bonus sneaks to that, and weapon focus is there are enough spares.
Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Sep 27 2010, 16:27 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
Halfling for throwing bonuses, But sure - It would only work on Strongheart. (The Broken Subrace!)
Either way; Id love to see somebody try that combo. Enough hide/MS And you'd be the most scary opponent -Ever- since you can hit 'n run and spam those naughty Shurikens!
Therefore anything halfling is out and anything with 30 levels is out. Personally, I think we've provided a plethora of possibilities for the character already. Now, it's up to Naivatkal to commit to one of them.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
Agreed, and I thank everyone for the help; even if things got hella sidetracked lol Here's some questions (and summaries of new knowledge):
* Bards are great for Drow assassins, as they are almost always allowed entry into a place of residence.
* Assassin seems to be getting a boost of some sort, so waiting to see what that ends up being would be a good idea.
* Dev Crit assassin is an odd occurrence but seems doable and rather nasty (assuming with maxed Hide/MS)
1) What's the best place to get really good Drow lore so I can really bone up before making my girlie? (I checked out the FR wiki on Drow and am planning to read the WotC 'Drow of the Underdark' and 'FR: Underdark' RPG books)
2) Glyph: Did the stats you mentioned mean before or after subrace modifiers? I assume after?
3) I have never done a Dev Critter, so can I be pointed in the direction of some good class based examples?
I think that's it. Thanks again!
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia
This is just a thought, not an actual suggestion, but a character with both dev-crits and death attacks (both with high DCs) would be interesting. Then again, it'd probably be best to just max out one.
I think that Dev Crit and Death Attack are both brutal in their own right (Dev obviously being more consistent due to it's contiual presence throughout a conflict). However, I would personally wait until the Dev Team is done with their sexafying of Assassins before I made one. You never know what they're going to do with it!
I would suggest you make your character and consider the Assassin changes an added bonus rather than something to build for.
Or that. I suppose that it makes sense that anything the Dev team will do will be organic and continue with the flow of the class, further strengthening it in its current direction - thus not requiring any sort of silly rebuild or anything just for the new modifications. I was thinking along the lines of having to waste a yearly rebuild so soon after character development. Apologies - Mosh is right.
1) What's the best place to get really good Drow lore so I can really bone up before making my girlie? (I checked out the FR wiki on Drow and am planning to read the WotC 'Drow of the Underdark' and 'FR: Underdark' RPG books)
2) Glyph: Did the stats you mentioned mean before or after subrace modifiers? I assume after?
3) I have never done a Dev Critter, so can I be pointed in the direction of some good class based examples?
1. You've pretty much got them there. There are some good novels out there that will give some insight, as well. You might want to start lurking in the Underdark forums and see what can be seen. It should give you a bit of insight into how Amian drow work, because it's not exactly the same as "canon" drow.
2. I don't know, I'm not Glyph.
3. NWNwiki. Read. Study. Learn.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
1. You've pretty much got them there. There are some good novels out there that will give some insight, as well. You might want to start lurking in the Underdark forums and see what can be seen. It should give you a bit of insight into how Amian drow work, because it's not exactly the same as "canon" drow.
2. I don't know, I'm not Glyph.
3. NWNwiki. Read. Study. Learn.
1) Awesome
2) Are you sure? *rolls a Sense Motive check*
3) I friggin love that site! Silly me, I just looked and it explained everything. Noob move supreme! Also: An assassin with 25+ STR? Nasty, though seems odd when AC (from DEX) is sacrificed by lower DEX. Plus, using heavy armor adds those nasty armor penalties.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
1. You've pretty much got them there. There are some good novels out there that will give some insight, as well. You might want to start lurking in the Underdark forums and see what can be seen. It should give you a bit of insight into how Amian drow work, because it's not exactly the same as "canon" drow.
2. I don't know, I'm not Glyph.
3. NWNwiki. Read. Study. Learn.
1) Awesome
2) Are you sure? *rolls a Sense Motive check*
3) I friggin love that site! Silly me, I just looked and it explained everything. Noob move supreme! Also: An assassin with 25+ STR? Nasty, though seems odd when AC (from DEX) is sacrificed by lower DEX. Plus, using heavy armor adds those nasty armor penalties.
Heavy armor barely penalizes your Hide/MS. It's those tower shields you've got to avoid.
Really? I haven't actually looked at the penalties, but that is good to know, indeed
Hmmm interesting ideas now hehe
Heavy plated dev critter assassin with maxed Hide/MS anyone? Anyone? Oh yeah
edit: I know it wouldn't work without taking the proficiency or a class that gives it, but the idea is still there lol Medium armor, hoooo!
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Right now I am torn as to a decent build for an emulation of a Warsling Sniper. I have it narrowed down to 2 builds: 15 cleric/ 14 bard/1 barbarian And 25 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 4 fighter
Any thoughts on which may be more useful overall in making the sling a worthwhile primary weapon? Or. Are there any other suggestions for it?
_________________ Eli Hodgewall<{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X Sven<=={o===========> Qeelak\ | / ,
After investigating the class a bit more specifically, I don't see why you're missing out on Rogue. It is a common prerequisite for the Warsling Sniper and the bastards are awfully rogueish anyway. Rogue23/Fighter6/Ranger1 sounds perfect for one.
Heavy armor barely penalizes your Hide/MS. It's those tower shields you've got to avoid.
I put my STR-bases in chainshirts when I want them to hide; you basically get +5DEX without asking for it by equipping the Hunter's Boots and Mantle of Stealth, so if you have 13DEX anyway, as many a tank does, you're in business. -2 armour check on them versus -8 on the fullplate.
I do admit, the maths of skill-pimping and the rule of -1, 25 or 100+ Spot makes fullplate the smartest choice, assuming infinite Mythals. I just can't bring myself to do it because it seems so wrong to be sneaky dressed in half a smithy, and also because I've never focussed on that as a tactic on a STR-base(Monks excepted) so I've never been willing to part with more than a couple of Mythals.
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