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I thought you said you were going to stop posting here, Glyph?

Well druids aren't quite as amazingly versatile as arcane casters and clerics, still damn good, but they fall short in party buffing compared to the rest. Perhaps I Could illustrate my point a bit better.

Our jack-of-all trades competition has the following contestants:

Shifter, DevCrit Sorc, Cleric, Druid and STR boosting Bard.

Shifter

- Melee: C- (Inferior ab, no dev, WM spec impractical, stat boosting items don't stack)
- Spells: C (no haste, limited spell selection, but unlimited uses, no scrolls)
- Spawn Disabling: B+ (trouble w/ mind immune, okish DCs but unlimited uses which opens door to spammage)
- Defense: C-/B+ for risen lord (immunities in some forms, low AC, no epic dodge, no AC item stacking)
- Buffing: C- (Equal to scroll/potion buffing, sometimes better duration/no gold cost)

DevCrit Sorc (Yellow is for cheese)

- Melee: B (Near WM ab w/ tenser's, dev crit and epic summons)
- Spells: S (Timestop+Haste+IGMS, nuff said)
- Spawn Disabling: A (Bigby, Fear, Sunburst, Mass Blind/Deaf, etc. etc.)
- Defense: B+ (Great buffs, cast tenser's, equip plate and shield for good AC)
- Buffing: B+ (This should be obvious)

Cleric

- Melee: A (Elite ab and damage, can get dev, oh and epic summons)
- Spells: A- (Earthquake is beastly, epic spells, scrolls + haste common)
- Spawn Disabling: B (HoG, SoV and WoF)
- Defense: B+ (Good buffs, plate and shield)
- Buffing: B+ (Pretty obvious as well)

Druid

- Melee: B+ (Dragonshape, horde of summons/pets)
- Spells: B+ (Earthquake, Bombardment and epic spells, scrolls common)
- Spawn Disabling: B+ (Stonehold, mostly Stonehold, but also SoV)
- Defense: C+ (Dragonshape, wall of summons, ok buffs)
- Buffing: C+ (No haste and no mind immunity hurts, lack of ac/ab buffs)

STR boosting Bard

- Melee: B+ (Curse song, dev crit, goodish damage)
- Spells: C- (Ice storm and Lich Lyrics lol, but mostly scrolls)
- Spawn Disabling: A (Curse song is good, confusion and fear)
- Defense: B+ (Great ac, plate/shield)
- Buffing: A (Readily apparent)

At least that's my take, what do you think?

PS: Oh and SDing Casters exist, it's one of the most OP PvP builds with no hard counters, except for possibly the rak, which would amuse me greatly.

I feel the need to direct everyone to this lovely thread that Ruce wrote up a while back, the exact specifics may have changed but it sums up the recent direction of the thread quite nicely still.

A Buildmonkey Writes. (Tips on not being a party leech)

kicking around a desire for a melee-based dwarf. I also want him to be a smith, and thus know he's going to need enough skillpoints to spare for filling craft armor/craft weapon so he can mythal usefulness into the stuff he makes..

The basic routes are what? Fighter/wm/rogue .. barb/fighter/rogue anything more interesting/different worth looking at for a straight up melee output?

Also - Devcrit axes (battle or dwarven war axe) - worth it, or are you already dishing out so much damage it's silly to bother with dev?

Last edited by ticket on Sun, Aug 29 2010, 4:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Barb 24/WM 5/Bard 1

It gets a decent amount of skill points and it's different to most other mixes. It's feat deprived and won't have heavy armor too. Maybe go for a two handed weapon (Great sword has a nice crit range) and aim for Thundering and Terrifying Rage. (You might want to request a DC item with -50 intimidate skill for PvM though.)

Should be able to self buff its AB to around 60-62. AC is pitiful unless you go with the shield route, in which case you'll be on par with all the other tumble tanks, plus self-haste. Damage-wise, he should be pretty okay. He won't compare to Barbs with EWS or Divine might or 7 WM.

It's not solo material but it should be a fun and challenging build. It's how I imagine how a barbie would be.

I don't understand these builds with 5 WM levels. I can see it for a scythe user that already has fighter (and a damn good reason not to want to land criticals 10% more often), but you're basically spending 5 feats (WM requirements) for 1x multiplier on criticals; I would forego that for 5 more useful feats and a more complimentary class, personally.

It works alright for 18-20 & 19-20 weapons, imho.

ainjyll wrote:

I feel the need to direct everyone to this lovely thread that Ruce wrote up a while back, the exact specifics may have changed but it sums up the recent direction of the thread quite nicely still.

A Buildmonkey Writes. (Tips on not being a party leech)

I updated it here, although that edit is probably out of date too:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36017 ...and scroll down until you hit my first post in the thread.

Last edited by Glyph on Sun, Aug 29 2010, 12:01 PM, edited 1 time in total.

that I did ruce that I did...I can't help but come back and grimmace at the rdd/bard combo's though...

as for dwarvern melee builds, I would have to assume dwarvern defender is a good choice, i'll get back to you on that, about to test that theory, and try to finally kill that mithril golem in the mod I use to test with a level 30 character ^_^

// will update here //

it won't let me buff intimidate for some reason with a fighter build, means I can't do the usual fighter 6 weaponsmaster 7...might take a while.

also you ain't getting both armour and weapon craft, and dev crit. either or, unless you go wizard rogue. still working on it...

--

ok I have figured it out, intimidate won't buff past 2 until your level 3.

11 fighter / 7 weaponmaster / 12 dwarvern defender, hear me out. DD has d12 on the hp, and I think I could probably get it down a few fighter levels for more DD if I didn't screw around with feats on the way...

from build (not exactly in order..)...exotic weapons, weapon focus Dwarvern war axe, dodge, expertise, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack, -toughness-, weapon specialization (fighter levels only) power attack, cleave, great cleave, improved crit, overwhelming crit, dev crit, and I also got armour skin but i'd change that for epic weapon focus, or possible a greater strength feat.

also, buff strength -all- the way for dev crit -at- level 30.

I can go into more detail if you like, this was just a test, looks very very ganky =D I like it.

also I maxed discipline and weapon craft, but thats about it. this is a little superpowered though, I suggest if you like the sound of it go master weapon/armour smith and buff the same stat, so you can make and mythal uber gear =D

you could...I guess, ignore my idea of lose armour skin for epic focus, and take epic skill focus craft >_> why anyone would do such a thing with such a powerful melee build though is beyond me. but it could easily work.

also during WM, buff spot all the way every level until it hits 16, and throw the rest at discipline, also you will get a few spare points but they would be better spent in parry imho rather than the other craft skill.

--

ed: I just killed the mithril golem with little hastle, its challenge rating is 35 on its own... this build pwns.

brooksthegreat wrote:

kicking around a desire for a melee-based dwarf. I also want him to be a smith, and thus know he's going to need enough skillpoints to spare for filling craft armor/craft weapon so he can mythal usefulness into the stuff he makes..

The basic routes are what? Fighter/wm/rogue .. barb/fighter/rogue anything more interesting/different worth looking at for a straight up melee output?

Also - Devcrit axes (battle or dwarven war axe) - worth it, or are you already dishing out so much damage it's silly to bother with dev?

*waves a pair of thick hairy arms frantically* Hello!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50416

He'd need to be lawful but if you might be interested PM me and I'll send you the details.

... I was looking around for a Monk assassin build. And, I don't really know much about what to do aside from perhaps 20 monk 10 rogue, and what to do feat wise, any suggestions?

Zeborah wrote:

... I was looking around for a Monk assassin build. And, I don't really know much about what to do aside from perhaps 20 monk 10 rogue, and what to do feat wise, any suggestions?

monk16/ftr4/roque10.

fist related feats and crippling strike all the way.

20/10, grab Epic Dodge. Or 16/Fighter4/Rogue10, grab Epic Dodge. Or then don't and go STR, works either way.

... Ack, if i'm going monk, I don't want to give up my chance to have an evil glare.

20/10 it be...

How much would I have to pay you folks to put together a Map of it for me?

Race: Elf

Classes: Monk 20/Rogue 10

Zeborah wrote:

... Ack, if i'm going monk, I don't want to give up my chance to have an evil glare.

20/10 it be...

How much would I have to pay you folks to put together a Map of it for me?

Race: Elf

Classes: Monk 20/Rogue 10

Try yourself and post what you come up with. There will be several bored monkeys around who can help you fine tune it.

*Raises hand*

I am having difficulties understanding how BAB functions with multiclassing.

For instance, Fighter 2/Bard 5, Fighter being the starting class.

BAB progression is +2 at Fighter 2, and a Bard has +3 at lvl 5 (Lv1 = 0, Lv1=1, Lv3=2, Lv4=3, Lv5=3).

Do I add +2 from fighter to +3, making it +5? Or do I add +2 from fighter to each BAB at each level of Bard, save when the number is repeated, making it +8?

It is probably very obvious which will be the answer, but for some reason my brain tends to doubt things when they seem obvious.

Take the BAB from each class independently. Bard5 is +3, Fighter2 is +2, so it's five overall.

Thanks, Rucey!

It turns out the answer was as I thought. >_>;;

All the builds I have read seem too stop tumble at 30,is it worth boosting past this or does it cap or something?

Tumble gives +1 AC for every 5 Ranks. Just Ranks, what you stick in at level up, not the actual modified score, so Dexterity Bonus, Armor Check Penalty, Skill Bonuses, etc, don't affect that. 30 Ranks gives +6AC. There's no way to get to 35, the max with level 30 level cap is 33. Those extra 3 points dont do anything for anyone, so noone bothers.

Zeborah wrote:

... Ack, if i'm going monk, I don't want to give up my chance to have an evil glare.

20/10 it be...

How much would I have to pay you folks to put together a Map of it for me?

Race: Elf

Classes: Monk 20/Rogue 10

I just started up a monk/something/something, wood elf
STR:10(12)
DEX:18
CON:12
WIS:14
INT:14(12)
CHA:eight

I'm going DEX all the way, and will grab epic dodge
So far shes lvl 8, and with her shiny Lemur gear she can solo Trolls. Like all DEX monks she would highly benefit from a dmg-dealer. If I take on 6 trolls, I turn on flurry-fists and can go make coffee, so I rarely solo with her and I suspect it will get worse from now on.

I havent decided between:
20m/5fig/5SD
25m/5SD
24m/6SD
20m/10R

I'm pretty sure she dont need UMD that much in epic, just because every one else got it, so I'll just bring with me my own owls-scrolls and have another to read them for me.
I know theres a sweet belt out there making the fighter levels less interesting, but she does get 1 attack more and (maybe more important) +2 in Fort savings and 3 extra feats.
I wouldnt stay at 16 monk, simply cause I want to be immune to mindspells (and with reflex saves up to the roof, all I have to worry about is Fort-savings, hence the fighter levels).

I have only played here a week now so I'm sure the more experienced here will have more to say

Question: Do you need epic barbarian levels for terrifying rage, or can you go 17 barbarian and still get it?

IIRC, you just need to have Greater Rage and the rest of the requirements. So the lowest barbie level you could get thundering and terrifying rage should be at 15. As for the Mighty Rage, wiki says you need Greater Rage X 6/day, 20 barbie levels.

[EDIT] Yep, Thundering and Terrifying would be available with just 15 Barbie levels. Why you wouldn't go for 24 Barb though, I don't know.

You'd need 16 Barb levels to take both; can't take them on another class's levelup.

Undead Shape. What weapon do the Vampire and Spectre shape use?

For vampire: what is its STR score, or is it a DEX shape? How does its relevant ability (to AB) compare to that of the Risen Lord?

Zinovy wrote:

Undead Shape. What weapon do the Vampire and Spectre shape use?

For vampire: what is its STR score, or is it a DEX shape? How does its relevant ability (to AB) compare to that of the Risen Lord?

Fists.

Incorporeal touch.

Vamp: All rounder.

Wraith: Dexer.

Just take the feat, you're taking it for risen lord anyways.

I wanted to do something with vampire, actually. But with fists, and the non-application of Weapon Foci, Risen Lord will be the one to go for, as per usual.

A cleric of malar who emulates his role as -the- predator.... How on earth do I go about with that?

What does that have to do with a build? It sounds like an attitude, which can be portrayed no matter what classes you take.

It has to do with the build that he would, preferably, be able to track things, be capable of melee, and most importantly: be able to catch fleeing prey. I could make a malarite ranger, but i already got a ranger prancing around.

I didn't know tracking was supported by any class on Amia.

For catching people, you'd have to outrun them (monk) and use Knockdown or slow them down with a bow (Called Shot). The only other thing I can think of to slow down an opponent with the provision of Mindblank' wide-spreadedness is Grease/Web spamming, which still leaves Freedom to worry about. Or use Earthquake.

Given that you want a cleric, Earthquake seems the most feat-efficient way, or you could Zen Archer with Called Shot. Neither of them fit Malar's dogma very well, since it's frowned on to use ranged attacks; they preach the hunt as beasts do it.

I'm not being very helpful, I realize; I started to answer then remembered a bunch of lore stuff that contradicted what I was thinking. Basically, I think a monk with Knockdown would be the best way to illustrate it. You get some speed, and Listen, and the ability to potentially immobilize a target.

A Cleric/Monk wouldn't have the right alignment. Monks are Lawful, LE is beyond one step from CE Malar. If that bothers you. It bothers me.

Now, A Cleric/Barbarian....

Zifon wrote:

I havent decided between:
20m/5fig/5SD
25m/5SD
24m/6SD
20m/10R

]

If you're going to take SD, take 6 levels in it or just forget it because you'd be better off taking something else.

The 24monk/6SD is pretty standard and will net you a buttload of AC, even if your AB suffers as a result.

The 20monk/10ranger nets you a bit better AB with no real loss of AC.

It all comes down to whether you value HIPS or AB more.

I'm planning on making a trap specialist kobold and I'm wondering what you guys think of how I should build it... more rogue levels = more skill points and sneaks, but what about 10 SD for badassery/SD shop?

so what do you think about 24rg/6sd or 20 rg/10sd? the 24 rogue gets one more special rogue feat, but 10sd gives both prereqs for epic dodge as opposed to just one, so its an even trade there. the first will give 2 more sneaks and the second will give... the SD shop, greater shadow jump, and cool factor.

19 rogue 6 sd 5 ranger.

tracking is impossible because people keep logging or using portals...and i've read that footprints with search would utterly lag the server into oblivion or something.

20 monk / 10 sd, need I say more?

I'm terrible at builds... but some hybrid of barb and druid would conceptually flesh out a Malarite quite well I suppose. Though you would have to go to a buid monkey to make that not crippled.

Quote:

A Cleric/Monk wouldn't have the right alignment. Monks are Lawful, LE is beyond one step from CE Malar. If that bothers you. It bothers me.

Now, A Cleric/Barbarian....

With no tracking and Malar's aversion to ranged assault, it's down to monk to catch up to things, if that's what was meant by "hunter". In FR, Good and Evil are objective, but Lawful/Chaotic is an incredibly flawed axis that needs relativism to make any sense, but by that token loses the ability to hold a definite numerical value.

Barbarian Fast Movement doesn't stack with Haste, also.

Maybe the hunter could be a shifter focused in Tiger Shape (Blinding Speed at will, and use Knockdown).

Dire tiger shifter would be a good match for a malarite, they really can book it and are suited for using KD. But bear in mind you'll end up gimping your melee ability a fair bit if you take the 19 shifter levels necessary for the epic version of the shape, which, in addition to no weapon focus options, makes it a pretty difficult shape to build around, especially without monk levels.

Oh and there's one thing I've been meaning to ask about. I've played shifters a fair bit, but have done very little PvP on Amia, I'm curious if anyone has had any experience doing PvP as a shifter and would be willing to talk about their experiences.

Cleric/Barbarian? Well, not sure about that but you could broaden your building experience and go for a Barb18/Cleric9/Rogue3 or Barb20/Cleric9/Rogue1 for example?

Or then just the safe old Cleric27/Rogue2/Ranger1, but that's a blah.

Quote:

Barbarian Fast Movement doesn't stack with Haste, also.

Yes it does, and so does monk speed. Va and Torin are proof of both.

NWNwiki wrote:

Notes

* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with haste.
* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with monk speed.

Alas, it doesn't. Reckon Uce can double-check this. Monk speed stacks with Haste, yus.

ainjyll wrote:

If you're going to take SD, take 6 levels in it or just forget it because you'd be better off taking something else.

The 24monk/6SD is pretty standard and will net you a buttload of AC, even if your AB suffers as a result.

The 20monk/10ranger nets you a bit better AB with no real loss of AC.

It all comes down to whether you value HIPS or AB more.

Well, 5 SD nets me epic dodge, and everyone keeps telling me Hips are wasted on a speedy monk, so.

And the 20m/10R stood for 20monk/10Rogue, not ranger, sorry, rogue for epic dodge + UMD, I prolly wont do that anyway, since that would postpone the 20.th monk lvl (and mind immunity) to lvl 29 or so.

So its either 20M/5F/5SD (extra attack-feats, Epic dodge), or
24M/6SD (epic dodge), or maybe 22-23M/5-6SD/1-2Rogue to get UMD also. Since 21-24 Monk wont make much a different to the build.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

NWNwiki wrote:

Notes

* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with haste.
* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with monk speed.

Alas, it doesn't. Reckon Uce can double-check this. Monk speed stacks with Haste, yus.

How odd. I'd assumed it was half the reason Va had it. Cornersneak, and to catch up to gits who try to run away hasted.

TormakSaber wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

NWNwiki wrote:

Notes

* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with haste.
* Barbarian fast movement does not stack with monk speed.

Alas, it doesn't. Reckon Uce can double-check this. Monk speed stacks with Haste, yus.

How odd. I'd assumed it was half the reason Va had it. Cornersneak, and to catch up to gits who try to run away hasted.

Has this changed in some patch? Back when I played Arena servers, Haste, Monk Speed and Barbarian Fast Movement ALL stacked... which resulted in quite hilarious monk39/barbarian1 builds.

TormakSaber wrote:

How odd. I'd assumed it was half the reason Va had it. Cornersneak, and to catch up to gits who try to run away hasted.

It was, then I found out it doesn't stack the way Monk speed does. Still worth having for that coupla rounds before everything really kicks off and the buffs come out.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Barbarian Fast Movement doesn't stack with Haste, also.

Yes it does, and so does monk speed. Va and Torin are proof of both.

...When I first read that, I was thinking "Torin is a Barbarian....?"

Anyways. Cleric/Barbarian. You know you want to. Its so unique. And it's not like you'll have to worry about Haste. Because you wont be taking Travel domain....will you? Animal + Strength!

Way cooler than cookie cutter Cleric build that every other Cleric of every other deity has. Rage with Extended Divine Power, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Divine Strength...etc. Sounds fun!

Something has just occured to me. But it's just whimsy for the moment, lets see what the real experts think.

If you take 16-21 Monk Levels, 8-13 Paladin Levels. Anything left over taken up by Ranger levels. Preferably at least 1, maybe upto 5/6. Human. No subrace. Ideally, Strength Based (With Devastating Critical:Unarmed). Divine Might/Shield. No Kamas. Whats a good build that fits those levels? And would it be any good? Definetly has 6 attacks no matter what the mix, and nice saves. But AB/Damage/AC?

The build can't afford both the Mights and Dev, would be too gimped. You have to pick the golden middle path, even though the same build with Cleric works for the Dev version. Same done with Pally would just make the class' überness go in vain.

I'd still personally recommend the one that goes heavy on Pally rather than Monk; you depend on the buffs quite a lot to effectively spare room in your gearset.

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