AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

It was a toss up between Imp Expertise and Blind Fight. Blind Fight is always on every melee build I make.

Silent2001 wrote:

It was a toss up between Imp Expertise and Blind Fight. Blind Fight is always on every melee build I make.

Can't say there is any competition then. Blind Fight is almost essential on a high magic server, given over half the PC's you encounter, and monsters, have some form of concealment.

Silent2001 wrote:

It was a toss up between Imp Expertise and Blind Fight. Blind Fight is always on every melee build I make.

Blindfight every time, you should never roll a dedicated meleer without it, IMHO.

Anyway, back on expertise. I find it useful in one instance at least.
Thats against spellcasting meleers. Anyone who likes to hide in GS then cast buffs and fight you with all their spells on. Knock on the Imp Expertise and you'll outlast the vast majority of their deadliest spells with high AC and High HP. So while they get a Temp High AB and such, you at least have a chance to outlast these annoying buffers, then smack them down when they are vaunrable.

I mean, its a situational feat. Effective when used for specfic situations. But the general feats such as Armor Skin and Blind Fight are better.

Also, with your -10 AB, even on a twenty, you have to roll -another- hit to confirm the crit, elsewise you only do normal damage.

Yurell wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yurrel...

Take Ranger instead of Fighter. Always.

Then armour skin isn't an option.
My options if I take ranger are Epic Prowess, Epic Toughness and Favoured Enemy. I didn't think any of them particularly useful for a wizard.

If you take ranger at a certain level though, you are entitled to an epic spell focus. Furthermore, I'd drop SP. A. It's useless unless you're fighting buffed out Bards, Monks or Drow. Because you're Drow, and a high level wizard, your natural SP will penetrate most spell resistances anyway.

Take an RP skill, such as craft wand or create potion, or if not those, another focus.

Drow + high wizard = fighting other Drow = "you need Spell Pen when fighting Drow = don't drop spell penetration, trust me.

Quote:

point blank and rapid fire, and ambi and 2 wep through gloves, or actually get 2 wep and ambi

bump.

TormakSaber wrote:

Drow + high wizard = fighting other Drow = "you need Spell Pen when fighting Drow = don't drop spell penetration, trust me.

isn't that what mords is for?

Glyph wrote:

Quote:

point blank and rapid fire, and ambi and 2 wep through gloves, or actually get 2 wep and ambi

bump.

Write in complete sentences where somebody can actually understand you.

-_- I did the other day and was ignored.

should I take point blank shot and rapid fire, and get ambidexterity and 2 weapon fighting with gloves....you know what forget it i'll do that.

(no agro to you pigeon, i think i'm sticking to the ICly threads from now on.)

On what build, with what stats, in exchange for what feats are you missing out on? I mean you are incredibly vague.... Incredibly mate. Im willing to help but first I need to actually know what you have.

are you an arcane archer?

if not skip the archery feats cause you'll be better off in melee most of the time.

if you are get rapid fire, point blank is very optional.

Vhalus_VoA wrote:

are you an arcane archer?

if not skip the archery feats cause you'll be better off in melee most of the time.

if you are get rapid fire, point blank is very optional.

Please note that PBS is a requirement for rapid shot.

Yurell wrote:

Name: Orthani'ar Tinnerai
Race: Drow

Yes, take the spell penetration feats. I wouldn't start out with Rogue as it means bye-bye to the dear Silent spell. Rather take UMD 30 than some silly Search or Craft weapon or Bluff etc. Otherwise you look good to go.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Oh really? Fun. Can't say I've missed a crit before that I've noticed heh.

You'd need to go through the battlelog looking for hits within your weapon's threat range that weren't crits.

Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Aug 02 2010, 9:58 AM, edited 1 time in total.

okies pigeon, um, *finds the stat sheets..*

build is Rouge 14 / Assassin 10 / SD 6

already got dodge, mobility, martial weapons, finesse. need exotic next for RP reasons =)

altogether: dodge, martial, mobility, weapon finesse, exotic, medium armour, heavy armour, ambi point blank shot, 2 wep rapid fire, epic skill focus UMD, improved evasion, GR dexterity, epic dodge.

I -think- thats all of them, lol.

(yes I know i'm powergaming SD for hips but I can already "hide in plain sight" > = ) just want shadowjump and the RP behind learning it and such since I haven't got that far before on amia.)

ed: without going into too much detail, yes I do need the armour feats.

you really dont need ESF:UMD for any item...

Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Aug 02 2010, 10:06 AM, edited 1 time in total.

i'm pretty sure you do, you need up to 100 umd stat for the most rediculous items in nwn anyway, why not here?

(I know don't use OOCly restricted stuff I am being -very- careful with that.)

ed: if its an item that costs around 2mill and is useable by -blank

- only (icly...) that means I could use it with epic, without i'd be in the 1.5mill area. not mentioning an item

only usable by, class, race, and align, not including OOCly restrictions.

Glyph wrote:

i'm pretty sure you do, you need up to 100 umd stat for the most rediculous items in nwn anyway, why not here?

(I know don't use OOCly restricted stuff I am being -very- careful with that.)

You dont. I dont know about the OC, 30 will get everything AFAIK.

You really don't. A UMD check of 100 would be for items worth about 10,000,000gp. And while some items might sell for that on the forum....no, I dont think theres any item in Amia thats mechanically worth 1,000,000gp. The max you need is probably 35, 40? Somewhere in that part of the world.

ah so...epic open locks? epic bluff XD not sure which to pick now. might just stick with to avoid and problems with curse and such which can lower UMD score.

ed: by the way not a bad job on the locks in game DM's i've found a fair few I can open and a fair few I could later without need of a specific key =) seams I was wrong about that, or things have been changed since.

30. Drop Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armour Proficiency, Heavy Armour Proficiency, PBS, Rapid fire and ESF UMD.

Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Aug 02 2010, 10:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.

like I said already I -NEED- the armours and weapons for RP. (why drop point blank and rapid also when you can get the gloves with the ambi and 2 weapon feats?)

^^ in short, start over.

Glyph wrote:

(why drop point blank and rapid also when you can get the gloves with the ambi and 2 weapon feats?)

Improved Two-weapon Fighting.

maybe I shouldn't be asking all this in a thread based on powerful building over RP. this is a heavy RP build, i'm not sure this is the advice i'm looking for.

however yea I see your point drop the ranged skills for improved two weapon, and have no epic skill focus considering like I said i'm not dropping the weapon and armour feats...(if you've seen null in game you know damn straight why >=) )

you don't need to worry about curse song lowering UMD.

if an item is equipped and your UMD is lowered the item stays equipped.

server difficulty isn't set to hardcore (something I disagree with a lot but anyway) so you only need 1 umd to cast any scroll really.

if you need martial and armor proficiencies consider dropping assassin for ranger, this also covers you for your TWF. then take the assassin profession and you still have the strong RP thing going there.

the thing about being a "mage" with UMD is like in pnp you end up spending most of your cash on spells instead of having raw power. which is great and balances out the fact you can use stuff like that.

also I do agree scroll levels should probably scale with UMD or something but its still tricky enough now.

Vhalus_VoA wrote:

you don't need to worry about curse song lowering UMD.

if an item is equipped and your UMD is lowered the item stays equipped.

server difficulty isn't set to hardcore (something I disagree with a lot but anyway) so you only need 1 umd to cast any scroll really.

if you need martial and armor proficiencies consider dropping assassin for ranger, this also covers you for your TWF. then take the assassin profession and you still have the strong RP thing going there.

Server difficulty is set to hardcore. Otherwise monsters could not critical hit you. I have access to the difficulty slider every time I log in as a DM, and it never moves from the Hardcore setting.

Scroll, autofails on 1's, autosucceeds on 20's, these are all separate server switches completely independant of difficulty level.

TormakSaber wrote:

Vhalus_VoA wrote:

you don't need to worry about curse song lowering UMD.

if an item is equipped and your UMD is lowered the item stays equipped.

server difficulty isn't set to hardcore (something I disagree with a lot but anyway) so you only need 1 umd to cast any scroll really.

if you need martial and armor proficiencies consider dropping assassin for ranger, this also covers you for your TWF. then take the assassin profession and you still have the strong RP thing going there.

Server difficulty is set to hardcore. Otherwise monsters could not critical hit you. I have access to the difficulty slider every time I log in as a DM, and it never moves from the Hardcore setting.

Scroll, autofails on 1's, autosucceeds on 20's, these are all separate server switches completely independant of difficulty level.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Use_magic_device

that is odd then because I've used level 8-9 scrolls, with class requirements on them, without that class on the build, with like 5 umd (total, not ranks), seen no roll and succeeded.

That's because, as I said, that scroll check is a separate server switch, separate from the standard difficulty scale, despite what the Wiki says. I've DMed for almost four years and the difficulty slider has not budged from Hardcore. You can't be anything less than Hardcore, because below it, monsters are unable to inflict critical his on player characters.

Quote:

Use magic device

As with most items with use restrictions, scrolls with class restrictions can be used by characters with sufficient skill levels in use magic device (UMD). However, under the "Hardcore" (or higher) difficulty setting, there is an additional check if Hordes of the Underdark is installed.

The standard UMD check is used to determine whether or not the scroll gets highlighted in red. If given a red highlight, the scroll simply cannot be used. As a general guideline, it takes a UMD score of 1 to use a (class-restricted) scroll with a spell of innate level 0 to 4, UMD 5 to use levels 5 to 8, and UMD 10 for level 9. The requirement for an individual scroll may vary, especially if the caster level is much higher than the minimum for the spell in question.

The additional check is performed after the scroll is used, but before the spell is cast. This check is a standard skill check (d20 + skill level) against a DC of 25 + spell innate level. If this check is passed, the spell is cast normally. If the check is failed, the scroll is destroyed, but the spell has no effect.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Scroll

so 20 + ? (0-60~or more with epic.) vs 25 + 9 max (34) so its somewhat balanced at a 50/50 chance on hardcore. idk if a seperate server switch is bypassing the roll or not but tormak says 1 fail 20 win.

also idk if i'm right but books staffs rods etc you don't roll for.

TormakSaber wrote:

That's because, as I said, that scroll check is a separate server switch, separate from the standard difficulty scale, despite what the Wiki says. I've DMed for almost four years and the difficulty slider has not budged from Hardcore. You can't be anything less than Hardcore, because below it, monsters are unable to inflict critical his on player characters.

Ah ok, you didn't exactly clarify this when it was mentioned before.

well might I suggest flicking that switch? Seems like it'd go at least a small way towards making UMD a bit more demanding.

That's a topic for another thread.

TormakSaber wrote:

Scroll, autofails on 1's, autosucceeds on 20's, these are all separate server switches completely independant of difficulty level.

He did specify. Right here.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Scroll, autofails on 1's, autosucceeds on 20's, these are all separate server switches completely independant of difficulty level.

He did specify. Right here.

I really wish people wouldn't comment on things they know nothing about.

I was referring to the UMD thread when I bought up the 25+spell level should be enabled by switching to hardcore and his response was simply 'I am aware of the server settings'. I mean I wasn't particularly surprised by his response, I've realised I have to really push Tormak to get him to actually give out any information rather than just smugness, I was merely commenting on how it would have saved a lot of time if he'd said something about it there.

Glyph, let me ask you this:
Are you taking assassin to be an assassin?
If you are then in a way there is no point as it is just a rogue with a few fancy spell abilities. If you want feats that help your RP, as i'm sure you are taking these feats so you can disguise yourself. Try rogue/fighter/sd, you automatically get heavy armor proficiency, more feats and a nice AB/Saves boost i believe. I know you are going for a "RP" build but you will never be useful in a party without the proper set-up, and therefore your skills which are necessary for your PC will never be optimal. Anyways my 2 cents.

Quote:

Are you taking assassin to be an assassin?

nice deduction there sherlock. yes. also for the poison and death attack bonuses.

-_- like I said in game to a kobold who thought I was an actual monk, I am not a tank nor intend to be with this build. plus i'm already rouge SD assassin, and RP wise this is the perfect build for when I am in my "normal" gear >=) (which i've yet to have the pleasure of using. never any DM's online when you want to utterly decapitate someone...)

how do you decapitate people by the way? hired killer job book or with on hit: vorpal ?

also I am pleanty useful to a party full of tanks and stealthy enough to get places tanks can't go without getting pwnt because they charged.

Glyph wrote:

how do you decapitate people by the way?

There is no mechanical means of decapitating someone at the moment, but if you kill something or someone, you can say that you're cutting off the head, or that the body was decapitated by the killing blow.

See this recent thread (and ignore the posts by anyone who is not a DM):

Peeves (DM) wrote:

Burningoutbright wrote:

Though, I do have a question. My PC has devastating critical. Is it legit to RP a beheading, if she lands a Dev Crit on someone?

We let the players decide that. It's really up to you. You aren't going to chop off the head -every- time, but still...

TormakSaber (DM) wrote:

Quote:

[Is the loser in PvP decapitated w]henever the victor says he cuts off the head?

Yes. Dead men tell no tales and assert no decisions.
[...]

Quote:

Questions for the DM’s: Is a Decap considered mutilation and do you need consent to do it?

No.

I can't find the thread, but like last month there was an assassination in the nomad, and I swear the screenie showed the guys head, off. in game.

Quick hit here:

Armor Skin or Epic Weapon Focus on a build that gets up to: 59 AC (61 with Armor Skin), +43 AB (+45 with EWF) and I only have room for one.

I should also note that this character has a Level 20 Curse song, so that's essentially +5 AB there, and also has Taunt (which may or may not be effective). My gut is telling me EWF due to Dev Crit being involved, as well. Am I right?

Im thinking unless something else is ganky you should be able to net both.

Quote:

The in-game description lists weapon focus as a prerequisite, but it is not one.

also I just realised there is no cap in AC in the original nwn, seams a bit overly rediculous to me. i'm not sure which i'd choose myself with that mate. 45 AB sounds nice. 60~ AC before buffs?!? do you need more?

you could skip both and make sure you get yourself dev crit, as much as I hate dev crit. *finds every fort increasing item in the game.*

I guess it depends how tight on feats you are, if you can get both like pigeon said your sorted.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Im thinking unless something else is ganky you should be able to net both.

Yes, it's an ECL +2 race.

You have to push this rule very hard before it breaks, but defence>>>offence as far as small-group PvP and bossfighting go. And since you're a Bard20, you're pretty sexy in large-group PvP anyway, so I say: take Armourskin.

Unless of course you have RDD in the mix, in which case I say: take your computer and throw it in front of a steamroller.

No RDD, though there's a possibility of 2 Palemaster levels. Well, a likelihood. He is a Death Singer, after all. And the AC from that is added in already to both AC totals.

stop, now, both of you, before this gets ugly.

Thinking about dipping my toes into paladin. Any particularly interesting directions to take it? Or is it the stock 25/4/1 class X/fighter EWS/ RogueUMDtumbledump?

Glyph wrote:

stop, now, both of you, before this gets ugly.

I am not going to stop it, I have been verbally (textually?) assaulted and I want the post deleted and the accusations investigated if pigeon will not withdraw them so I can clear my name.

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