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Uncle-Opustus
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jul 25 2010, 22:02 PM 

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The build is too tight on feats. You only need INT 10 to get all you need.

Glyph: The feat from the Fighter level is essential for the build, but I have nothing to complain without it. The build just is that dandy.

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Zinovy
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jul 25 2010, 22:06 PM 

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Quote:
But with a 2 hander (improved disarm) adds 1-3 ab on pretty much everything If i recall.


I tested this in a blank module to no effect.


 
      
Azarius
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:32 AM 

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is there fullplate and tower shields with no ASF on them on the server (that arent gimped in some other way as to be useless)?

I am not asking for where or how to aquire them... just if they are out there for build reasons (needing to take autostill or not) for a spellsword.

if not what is the heaviest armor/shield category with 0% ASF on them?


 
      
StandingBehindYou
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:08 AM 

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Azarius wrote:
is there fullplate and tower shields with no ASF on them on the server (that arent gimped in some other way as to be useless)?

I am not asking for where or how to aquire them... just if they are out there for build reasons (needing to take autostill or not) for a spellsword.


There aren't on NPC merchants or as loot drops, but they exist on the server (DC items, for example).

Quote:
if not what is the heaviest armor/shield category with 0% ASF on them?


You can get 0% ASF 7/+1 half-plate (I don't know if there's one without any negatives), and 0% ASF 4/+4 chain.

There are 0% ASF large shields without any negative properties.


 
      
MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:06 AM 

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Zinovy wrote:
Quote:
But with a 2 hander (improved disarm) adds 1-3 ab on pretty much everything If i recall.


I tested this in a blank module to no effect.


Creature needs to be armed. Creature needs to be Hostile.

For every weapon size category larger than the opponents weapon you recieve a net bonus of 1 AB. If weapons are the same size no AB bonus is awarded. Unarmed always counts as one weapon size larger so will always net you +1 AB.

It works, i've tested it.

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Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 9:49 AM 

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I dimly remember testing it back when Sturli Anvilpus was an active character of mine; he's got Improved Disarm so I had him beat up the Brog barbs with various weapons(including his fat fists) when he was on a drum run. No effect at all back then, which may even have been 1.67.

I'll wheel the tubby bitch back out, I guess.


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 9:50 AM 

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So basically - A Imp.Disarming Weaponmaster could be -VERY- deadly?

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Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 9:55 AM 

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I heavily recommend against doing such a thing unless you are a DM or only ever spam Disarm in the presence of a DM.

At the time I played Sturli(who is exactly that) I was a DM, so I knew no-one would ever lose a weapon to a crash or griefer. He uses a heavy flail, so the DC is pretty nasty to keep your weapon in hand, despite his comparitively low AB. He's the supertankly DwD18 Epic DR flavour, so his STR isn't so hawt.

Now...Stillborn as an Improved Disarmer, that'd be nasty if the AB bonus works again.


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 9:57 AM 

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Oh oh, What about this one then

Cleric, RDD - Imp.Disarm two-handed!

Gotta top the AB score, right?

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 10:12 AM 

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Btw the Imp.Disarm +1+3 AB only works with large weapons eh? I mean, if you are using a Kukri you will basically get -1 AB; right?

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Silvarus
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 10:16 AM 

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Add 4 levels of CoT or Fighter for an extra attack.

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GreatPigeon
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 13:01 PM 

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spam in in pvm not elsewhere.

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Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.


 
      
Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 13:07 PM 

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Or to modify: announce you are a Disarm spammer and suggest your opponent swaps to a weapon they won't mind losing to a crash or griefer.

Amia is a bajillion times more stable than when I ran Sturli, and since then the DMs have gained ways and means of catching any griefy weapon thieves, but still...


 
      
MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:15 PM 

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Just tested it.

Yeah no longer works unarmed but it does work with a large weapon versus small and tiny weapons.

Basically you get a +4 bonus per weapon size catergory larger.
You get a -4 penalty for Imp Disarm attacks.

Ergo if you are wielding a Greatsword the bonii should appear like this.
+12 - 4 versus daggers.
+8 - 4 versus shortswords
+4 - 4 versus longswords
0 - 4 versus two handed weapons

The extra AB will only roll if you beat the opponents discipline check apparently.

It does work, but no longer works as unarmed counting as a weapon size larger.

I would say do not spam Imp Disarm ever in PvP unless you are an unarmed monk. Even as a DM I wouldn't do it.

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GreatPigeon
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:34 PM 

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So Obsidian is screwed :(

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[GreatPigeon] is better than me.


Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.


 
      
MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:50 PM 

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Nope because Imp Disarm is still the best vs weapon PvM disabler. If you Imp Disable something so its hitting you with fists you've won. I mean you've seen it in Brog Orcs just how effective it is. Opens up the AoO's and everything. Beautiful really.

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 0:49 AM 

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imp's get nice bonuses, shame the alignment doesn't match at all for glyph. *not evil.*

"If you Imp Disable something so its hitting you with fists you've won." heh, I disagree with that it depends who's hitting you XD


 
      
GreatPigeon
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 2:56 AM 

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WTF are you talking about glyph... Imp... Not in the sense of the damned creature! Of the sence its an abbreviate for Improved... Hence Imp disarm = Improved disarm... for the love of ruce/op/mosh and the other fgt crew!

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The Peacock wrote:
[GreatPigeon] is better than me.


Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.


 
      
Glyph
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:06 PM 

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O_o I thought imp familiars get disarm? or not...lol

I had a question and i'm not entirely sure I should ask this one.

rouges, is pursuade and bluff important on amia, -considering- .... it is based toward NPC's, or, is it nessicarry to at least have some points in there and not fully bs it through RP ? ..... I used search but it came up with something about an item, and I can't remember the last time I heard it talked about.

ed: saying that do NPC's have anything new to say with pursuade and bluff skills?


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:09 PM 

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It's an RP Skill - But DM's greatly approve of it's use in DM events.

There are no real good uses for it, Besides that. . . Oh, And Bluffing players. But they squirm around to get the truth out nonetheless - and you're far better off to make a REAL lie to fool a player.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:10 PM 

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A question of my own -
    Is it worth getting 'parry' as a monk?
    And how much do you need to make it efficient?

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:20 PM 

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Quote:
A question of my own -

Is it worth getting 'parry' as a monk?
And how much do you need to make it efficient?


expertise mode. nuff said. however if you take it to 33 along the way maybe.

*about bluff and pursuade* so getting past the gate at an event might require a bluff roll =) ok I can do that.


 
      
MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:23 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
A question of my own -
    Is it worth getting 'parry' as a monk?
    And how much do you need to make it efficient?


80 + Epic Dodge only way to do it.

Or Bard And Devestating. Because thats just funny.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:27 PM 

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Why is Spot Superior to Listen now again?

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:28 PM 

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its not if you have both :P *is looking it up...*

maybe this O_o dunno

"Cannot hear sanctuaried creatures. " (noting that thats not GS thats S...)


Last edited by Glyph on Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
MoshingChris
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:40 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Why is Spot Superior to Listen now again?


www.nwnwiki.com

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Silent2001
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:43 PM 

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I feel foolish for picking Listen over Spot.

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 17:57 PM 

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why? theres no way all those invisible mages have move silently ;)

one more quickly, so use magic device, not useable by class race and align is fine but not if its a weapon specialization or otherwise feat one with the OOCly bit right?


 
      
ainjyll
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:04 PM 

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You're good as long as there's not an OOC note attached to the item limiting it's use.

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blackvswhite
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:11 PM 

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how do double weapons work with regards to improved disarm? Does every hit count as a large weapon, or is it as a large with a light offhand/medium with light offhand?


 
      
Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:18 PM 

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Listen has a three things going for it that Spot doesn't.

One is that I only know of one SD in the history of Amia who took Epic Move Silently, so if you take Epic Listen, you've got an excellent percentage chance of detection, and even if you didn't you're pretty good. If you haven't got Epic Spot and are facing a well-made SD, then you need a Dragonshaper's WIS mod to have a viable chance of detection outwith sniffing out an eavesdropper.

The second is that Listen works round corners, which Spot does not. My cornersneak has beaten a couple of SD's that way because he could keep line of sight broken and wait for them to get too close to the corner he was round and get in there before they detected him. Of course, if I had been those SD's I would have stealthed and unstealthed periodically because Listen always takes a full round to detect, even if the SD has 50 less Move Silent than the detector's Listen.

The last is that Amplify is +20, but at five rounds duration from items, that's really only of interest to Bards.

None of those add up to much, mind. Listen still sucks.


 
      
Silent2001
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:23 PM 

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Gorthod has epic listen. He detects most sneaks when he has clairevoyance and amplify up.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:45 PM 

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But listen can detect Invis, Spot cant!

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Red
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:50 PM 

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5 bard/10 palemaster/15 blackguard!

Sojek be damned, that guy was a beast.

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Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 18:58 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
But listen can detect Invis, Spot cant!
No it can't. Wacky NWN.


 
      
Red
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 19:01 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
But listen can detect Invis, Spot cant!

Wait...so what does spot do?

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 19:02 PM 

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Own Listen, it seems :shock:

Amplify + Clayvoiance = 30listen
True sight + Clayvoiance = 20 Spot. Yet the spot is greatly supreme still.

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brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 19:51 PM 

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I was doing some digging through my computer and found a notepad file saved of the "K.I.S.S. Sorcerer build" that must have been posted in here a couple versions of this thread ago.

For those who don't remember, it basically has you take Greater Spellfocus in Enchant and Abjuration, Extend, Empower, And Maximize, and then Great Charisma's all through Epic. This winds up with something like 32 Base CHA and 44 after items.

How does this stack up when compared to, say, 40 CHA and having a handful of epic spells at your disposal?

Just curious.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 22:14 PM 

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What the devil, no one here would tell you to spellfocus in Abjure/Enchant. Pick 2 of: Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy, maybe Enchantment, assuming you're gonig for plain jane super boring generic build.

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brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 27 2010, 22:19 PM 

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Forgive the length.

Quote:
Terra's secret guide to the mage!:

K.I.S.S (keep it simple system) sorcerer ;

Race: Any ( I did it with a moon elf )

Starting stats:

Classes: 30 Sorcerer

Main point is that you have 18 cha in start, spend the remaining points how you wish, I took int for skillz.

10 str
10 dex
10 con
10 wis
14 int
18 cha

1: Spellfocus Enchantment
3: Greater spellfocus enchantment
4: +1 cha ( 19 cha )
6: Spellfocus abjuration
8: +1 cha ( 20 cha )
9: Greater spellfocus abjuration
12: Extend spell +1 cha ( 21 cha )
15: Empower spell
16: +1 cha ( 22 cha )
18: Maximize spell
20: +1 cha ( 23 cha )
21: Great Charisma I ( 24 cha )
23: Great Charisma II ( 25 cha )
24: Great Charisma III ( 26 cha ) +1 cha ( 27 cha )
26: Great Charisma IV ( 28 cha )
27: Great Charisma V ( 29 cha )
28: +1 cha ( 30 cha )
29: Great Charisma VI ( 31 cha )
30: Great Charisma VII ( 32 cha )

Skills:

33 conc
33 craft weapon
33 craft armor
33 spellcraft

Bare HP:

( 4 (sorc) + 0 (con/toughness bonus) ) * 30 = 120

Max con buffed:

( 4 (sorc) + 0 (con/toughness bonus) ) * 30 + ( 6 * 30 ) = 300

AC: non existent, which is rahter good as that means they'll hit your sheat more, stupid AC whore mages, sheesh.

AB: non existent, you're a mage not a sumo wrestler, excelling in this field means you're effectivly shooting yourself in the lowerspine to cripple yourself as you'll endup knower-of-both-fields-master-of-none. You'll see below.

Spells and strategies:

*Dominate DC: 10(base) + 9(spell level) + 17(cha mod) + 4(spellfocus feats: enchantment) = 40

*Banishment DC: 10(base) + 7(spell level) + 17(cha mod) + 4(spellfocus feats: abjuration) = 38

*Acid Sheat damage: 1d6 + 60 acid per hit

*Mordenkiens disjunction dispel DC: 30 (Which means you can effectively dispel EDK. Mummy dust and EMA still remains un-dispelable)

*Spell penetaration: d20 + 30 + 2(gainable though items) = 32 - 52 / 42 - 62 (if you're morded and your SR isnt monk SR)

*Gate: 360 seconds (60 rounds) of raw pwnage (atleast if you're goodietwoshoes)

*Duration: 30 Turns/rounds/hours 60 if extended (Gate lasts 2 rounds/caster level by default)

*Non beach dispel DC: 30 (Yeah, you're fried in pvp if you have less then 25 casterlevels as you won't be stripping haste)

*Spellmantle + Shadow sheild + Mindblank = you're immune to every spell in the game (except Evard Black Tentacles and great Thunderclap)

*Devcritters: They usually have low will, abuse greater sanctuary and/or Timestop to gain time to mord away any mind blank potion before hitting them with dominate. Bigbies works good on devers aswell. Note: the daze effect from dominate monster is removed if he/she chugs a mindblank potion. Sun burst also works VERY well as its reflex or permablind.

*Shadow dancers: GS use a mordenkien sword (It has true TS, le gasp) scroll, haste and buff the summon lean back and watch it tear up the shadowdancer and if it pops up; forcefull or mindspell as they also usually have low will.

*Cleric: Mord, they usually have crappy casterlevel which means all their precious AB buffs goes "BOO-BYE!", hit with a bigby or just let the bugger kill itself on your sheat while you laugh at him/her, unless, its a dever then jump to the dever point from here.

*Bards: Haha! a wise person once said this: "Bards are crappy bow wielders!". Send your Gate after it or do the devcritter point, don't forget to giggle and/or a concentration failure due to curse song, recast and giggle again.

*Arcane archers: Their arrowes eats your DR (from premonition, shadowsheild etc) whack'em flat on their arse with a bigby or nuke their mind with a mindspell. Giggle at them.

*Other mages: Twitchy finger. If its a wizard, counterspell, you probably got more spells then he has, if he/she starts something silly to waste your mords hit'em as they're busy waving their arms stupidly. If the mage is conterspelling you, well to bad for you, be patient and or summon your familiar as they cant counter that. If the one you're counterspelling starts running to hit you, cast epic spells, other thing you cant counter; hit 'em with a disabling spell AGAIN sunburst is ideal (mages usually have low reflex unless they're cheeze, but then forcefull isnt lame) if you think forcefull is lame. Make sure you got haste at all times. If your opponent is autoquicked (Kylie, haha.) don't let him/her/them jiffer around. Nuke'em, giggle.

*Monks: Thunderclap, Evards those spells doesnt have a SR check! Ha-Ha. Or simply let him/her beat herself to death on your sheat as monks has alot of attacks/round instead of damage. Summon a critter to chew on him/her for extra giggles.

*Outsiders INCLUDING PCs: Banishment; DC 38 INSTA DEATH that is only stopped by SR/Mantle is quite hilarious. Happened me once, that mage who had a EDK happened to be a outsider, instead of banishing the EDK I killed the caster, very effective.

*PvM: Get a tank buddy...actually, get a whole pile of buddies! buff them with EVERYTHING you got! from cantrips to IX spells. Then do the same with a summoed critter IF there is room, Gate is recommended. Get a dominatee, again if there is room, buff it too like there is no friggin tomorrow. Well, skip mindblank, it makes dominatees angry, protection from alignment still works wihtout breaking anything and for godsake make sure it doesnt get hit by a greater restoration.

*Spells/day: 10 IX spells if you got 12 cha on your gear.

*Familiar: FEY! because they're rogues, sentient, immortal and got a crapload of skills and improved invises. Recommended: take a familiar that first your characters personality/style.

*GSed people: GS you too, be patient, buff in the mean time BUT be ready to cancel your action que. Or chug a reality potion and hit the ex-GSed person with a disabling spell. If you don't have a reality potion you can always go for AoE mord as your caster level is arse high and GS is on the breachlist. Or counterspell them if they popup untill you've thought up something good to do.

*Improvise: Oh,uh...

*Immortality: If you fail to kill whatever, GS and run away.

If you manage this:

CONGRATULATIONS!

YOUR ATTEMPT AT IMMORTALITY AND INFINITE POWER IS SUCCESSFUL!

This is the exact same build as my character Leona Galenson has, hurrah.


This is what I had saved. Something that floated around the ..first version of this topic, I want to say. Having been fooling with sorcerers, I decided to poke my head up and ask about it.

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Horus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:01 AM 

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I thought I heard something about the properties of shifter's gear being absorbed into their new form. Does this work for other kinds of shapeshifting as well? i.e. Shapechanging wizard keeping their gear, or someone with a lycanthrope character?

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:05 AM 

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Nope. Shifters only.

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Horus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:28 AM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
Nope. Shifters only.

Poop.

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The Peacock
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:32 AM 

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brooksthegreat wrote:
Forgive the length.

Quote:
Terra's secret guide to the mage!:

THINGS ABOUT MAGES AN' STUFF


This is what I had saved. Something that floated around the ..first version of this topic, I want to say. Having been fooling with sorcerers, I decided to poke my head up and ask about it.


Yes? What about them? Furthermore, was that stuff sent to you in a PM, because the... Secret sort of isn't a secret anymore, huh?

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brooksthegreat
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:37 AM 

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The Peacock wrote:
brooksthegreat wrote:
Forgive the length.

Quote:
Terra's secret guide to the mage!:

THINGS ABOUT MAGES AN' STUFF


This is what I had saved. Something that floated around the ..first version of this topic, I want to say. Having been fooling with sorcerers, I decided to poke my head up and ask about it.


Yes? What about them? Furthermore, was that stuff sent to you in a PM, because the... Secret sort of isn't a secret anymore, huh?


Sigh. My original post:

brooksthegreat wrote:
I was doing some digging through my computer and found a notepad file saved of the "K.I.S.S. Sorcerer build" that must have been posted in here a couple versions of this thread ago.

For those who don't remember, it basically has you take Greater Spellfocus in Enchant and Abjuration, Extend, Empower, And Maximize, and then Great Charisma's all through Epic. This winds up with something like 32 Base CHA and 44 after items.

How does this stack up when compared to, say, 40 CHA and having a handful of epic spells at your disposal?

Just curious.


So, if you'd read that you'd know A) It was posted in the build forums. and B) have an answer to "Yeah, what about them?" I don't even know "Terra"..so it wasn't a PM, or a secret of any kind.

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The Peacock
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 8:50 AM 

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Then the secret is out for all to see!

The difference between having less DCs and more Epics than having a High DC and little to no epics is just that.

I can't necessarily say that the K.I.S.S. build for sorcerors will fit all, some like auto-quickened, others like epic spells, and others like EDKs or Mummy Dust. Some like focusing in spell schools other than abjuration and enchantment, because it gives them a higher or meaner DC for say, necromancy and evocation.

The thing here is, experience. A full-blooded mage can and most of the time will be able to kill off most things and people on this server. But if you can't play it, you will be the one killed off.

The builds good, High DC I mean, however it can be a pain when in PvP you verse people that are of paladin blood, or clerics, or Monks, or Bad/PMs.

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Glyph
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 19:16 PM 

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I agree with that one, could lose a few of those charisma buffs for the three auto quickens and GR :P heafty powerwise though, and you might want to find a PC monk yourself to avoid certain doom in pvp. mage duels though say goodbye to the other guy.

also what tormak said, evocation licks, as would epic spell focused summoning.


 
      
NinjaClarinet
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 29 2010, 0:40 AM 



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Joined: 12 Jul 2010

I'd just like to hear some of the opinions that prevail here. Pure wizard. Planned Epic feats:

Improved combat Casting
Epic spell focus: X (keeping the exact focuses hush for RP reasons)
Epic spell focus: Y
Great Intelligence I



Now here I get a little torn, do I want Auto-Quick III for the last three feats, Three epic spells, or two more INT and an epic spell? Leaning towards the epics, because I can always extend a Haste, but I haven't gotten a feel for the PvP style of the server.


 
      
Glyph
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 29 2010, 3:04 AM 

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personally, i'd get two auto quickens and GR but thats me.


 
      
Vhalus_VoA
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 29 2010, 5:25 AM 

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Joined: 27 Jul 2010

question regarding mestil's acid sheath and elemental shield not stacking. is it just the damage shield that doesn't stack or the entire spell effect?

wondering if I can still get the 50% cold/fire resist with the acid shield, I'm guessing not.


 
      
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