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Colapops
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 Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 19:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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I was actually hoping to just have it handwaved away like rape or graphic torture, but apparently Amians really want to butcher infants. Who knew?
_________________ The origin of storms.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 19:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Isn't it wonderful? 
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:03 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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Colapops wrote: I was actually hoping to just have it handwaved away like rape or graphic torture, but apparently Amians really want to butcher infants. Who knew? There's a difference. People can't really avoid rape or graphic torture if it happens to them in real life. There's no obvious option that would prevent that. A woman can't leave her figure at home, and nobody can put their ability to be captured in a locked room while they're out and about. Anyone dumb enough to walk around with an infant has blatantly ignored the most obvious way to keep their infant safe: Don't bring a damn infant into places you know to be inhabited by drow, goblins, tieflings, and any number of other dangerous things.You can avoid having your infant grabbed and used as ransom or revenge fairly easily. Hire a nanny. If you're dumb enough to put its life in danger by waltzing through unsafe places with it, you deserve what you get.
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Colapops
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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... and a "no babies" rule has what to do with that?
_________________ The origin of storms.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Babies are stupid. This is not 'The Sims'.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Selmak
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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I never bothered with any pregnant or 'has child with her' game time for Isamura. Who really wants to know in detail how some Cordor brat grew up anyway?
The time to be roleplaying a child of an existing character is when they're actually old enough to be going on their own adventures.
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:15 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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Colapops wrote: ... and a "no babies" rule has what to do with that? Mostly just pointing out that applying the same kind of judgment to all three is in error because the last one involves a conscious choice and a willing disregard of danger nearly every single time. I'm very much of the opinion that if a payer has to make a conscious choice with obvious potential ramifications like that that it's not the staff's job to babysit or handhold them so their choice doesn't get them screwed. Besides, people will still ignore the "no babies" rule flippantly. Try ignoring it when a DM tells you "Sorry, El Bastardo del Diablo has your baby. You knew the risks. Thanks." Just saying option B will drive the point home with all the force and finesse of a train wreck, which is what it takes to get through to some people.
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Colapops
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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I think you are missing the point intentionally so that you can push the "anyone with a baby in that situation deserves it" idea. It isn't about punishing anyone or forcing someone to roleplay a certain way for the sake of doing just that: it is to prevent something sick and twisted from happening in-character, which would be the death of an infant.
"No babies" means the infant would not be in the situation to begin with, just like "no rape" means no rape and "no graphic torture" means no grotesque torture. These things are not allowed on the server because of the nature of the act itself, not just in character but also to players behind the screen. The fact that people are so hungry to see someone's RP-baby diced up like a bell pepper because "someone that stupid deserves it" is a pretty good indicator that the idea itself is messed up.
_________________ The origin of storms.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Colapops got a good point there.
Infants is ...Grisly. And there are NUMEROUS ways to make me feel uncomfortable enough to stop playing. Hurting infants is one of them.
Perhaps we can get a ruling to Deny all Infant RP?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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xordae
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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You're all just jumping on this because you want to see morons suffer. This idea is so far removed from the "children friendly" tag it's not even funny.
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Colapops
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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Seriously, this reminds me so much of the discussions that came about when Fallout 3 was released. So many neckbeards raging at Bethesda on any relevant forum because they couldn't shoot children to death.
_________________ The origin of storms.
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HellScourge
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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I remember the time when the "No graphical torture" rule was not yet done and people would happily Rp as they did before, safe for the few who actually used such methods for good Rp (I am looking at you Hort). It was also a way to teach someone ignorant enough to charge alone into the Underdark and get captured by the Drows to think about it and not just blort //No torture. I didn't agree to this. I'd even go so far as to say that such a rule was used just the same as the people who hid behind the OOC consent for pvp rule, until that one was changed. 'nuff said, it allows people to be as stupid as they want and not suffer any sort of consequences. And that "Sick and twisted" twisted thing. My drow would happily torture an infant of one of the lesser surface races just to teach the mother a lesson. My evil druid would just kill the mother and keep the infant to raise it properly. My Tiefling would just plain ignore them, slap the mother and try to get some sense into her and in the worst case kidnap the kid from her just so its safe. Its not sick if you want people to actually reckon that the actions they do have actual consequences, a lot of the players obviously agree that the game and the server takes actions and things done to characters to light, and by the gods, I can wholeheartely agree to that after meeting enough "You can not kill me because my god will ressurect me in the cordor temple and I will get you afterwards, even if I die over and over and over and over again! Eventually you will fail to kill me." characters. Plus it would give the evil people somewhat of an edge. Kidnap the brother of someone? Chances are they are epic dev critters or mages and will whoop your ass plus they can and will be resurrected with no fuss and everyone will be ever happy after. Kidnap the Kid? Now the chances are different. Stand back or the toodler gets it! And no resurrecting him, hah. Or even worse, turn the kid against their parents by converting him to your god. Now what will mommy and daddy do when their little Jimmy suddenly starts praising Bane after being taken care of by the big bellied jolly guy in green who gave him cupcakes? (Darthion reference here people!) _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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Selmak
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:39 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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I'm all for children not being roleplayed except as new characters of adult age and maturity. If they're not so important to you that you're willing to invest the time yourself or ask another player to do so, they are not important enough to take along with you everywhere.
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Colapops
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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HellScourge wrote: stuff. I'm not sure what your point was there since, yes, those things are pretty sick and also twisted. People not taking death or combat seriously enough, or the consequences of their actions, is also not something that will be somehow be remedied by having people roleplaying nanny and having Little Tyke get turned into drow gravy. _________________ The origin of storms.
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:47 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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Colapops wrote: I think you are missing the point intentionally so that you can push the "anyone with a baby in that situation deserves it" idea. It isn't about punishing anyone or forcing someone to roleplay a certain way for the sake of doing just that: it is to prevent something sick and twisted from happening in-character, which would be the death of an infant.
"No babies" means the infant would not be in the situation to begin with, just like "no rape" means no rape and "no graphic torture" means no grotesque torture. These things are not allowed on the server because of the nature of the act itself, not just in character but also to players behind the screen. The fact that people are so hungry to see someone's RP-baby diced up like a bell pepper because "someone that stupid deserves it" is a pretty good indicator that the idea itself is messed up. Right. At what point did I say I was cool with babies getting put in a blender? My thoughts are much more towards capture, ransom, or some of the other ideas that don't actually kill, maim, or disfigure the kid. Nobody deserves to have their child killed. But that's part and parcel to the bargain. As it stands, are people actually running around sticking babies in a cuisinart? Am I missing the dead baby festivals ingame? I haven't seen one person who I honestly think would do something like that. But to foreclose all possible RP related to a person's child because you get queasy when someone really is an evil bastard and on rare occasion a child might die, you've shortchanged the entire population out of any decent RP that could've come of the situations that arose. And killing an infant is probably going to put any character on the top of a lot of hitlists, so there's a tremendous disincentive to not do it anyway. I'm willing to concede that I'd be fine with a rule against RP'd children getting killed, but I am vehemently against a rule simply forbidding people to take their children with them. That's getting a little too much into Big Brother territory for my tastes.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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I want to play a game FREE of Grisly Torture, Rape and Infant murder, please. Make it so.
I Disapprove of such RP; and wish there was a rule against it. It creeps me out.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It is supposed to be creepy and grisly and done properly can be a mature part of a well done fantasy setting.
However, almost none of you are mature enough to handle it responsibly, which is why it is banned and why you see topics like this.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Colapops
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 20:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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Ace of Swords wrote: My thoughts are much more towards capture, ransom, or some of the other ideas that don't actually kill, maim, or disfigure the kid. Nobody deserves to have their child killed. But that's part and parcel to the bargain. As it stands, are people actually running around sticking babies in a cuisinart? Am I missing the dead baby festivals ingame? I haven't seen one person who I honestly think would do something like that. But to foreclose all possible RP related to a person's child because you get queasy when someone really is an evil bastard and on rare occasion a child might die, you've shortchanged the entire population out of any decent RP that could've come of the situations that arose. And killing an infant is probably going to put any character on the top of a lot of hitlists, so there's a tremendous disincentive to not do it anyway.
I'm willing to concede that I'd be fine with a rule against RP'd children getting killed, but I am vehemently against a rule simply forbidding people to take their children with them. That's getting a little too much into Big Brother territory for my tastes. All of this is applicable to cybering, rape, and torture rules as they stand on the server now. See: TormakSaber wrote: It is supposed to be creepy and grisly and done properly can be a mature part of a well done fantasy setting. _________________ The origin of storms.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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TormakSaber wrote: It is supposed to be creepy and grisly and done properly can be a mature part of a well done fantasy setting.
However, almost none of you are mature enough to handle it responsibly, which is why it is banned and why you see topics like this. Oh my. Again I find myself agreeing with IT completely.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:09 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: It is supposed to be creepy and grisly and done properly can be a mature part of a well done fantasy setting.
However, almost none of you are mature enough to handle it responsibly, which is why it is banned and why you see topics like this. Thank you for pointing out the sad reality of the situation. I've seen RP that literally ended with the ritual sacrifice of a child, and that RP is still without parallel for the sheer unbelievable amount of depth, emotional impact, and tremors of remorse it sent through the server population. It was absolutely brilliantly done and all the parties, including the mother (an actual woman), were mature about it. That was the darkest moment in a long and brutal story arc, and in the end it made the victory that much more valuable- the sun shone brighter the next morning, as they say. I would kill to have a group of RPers like that again, who can roll with a punch that hard and keep it IC and deeply interesting. There's almost nothing you can throw at a character that hits harder than something happening to their child. And it's often reserved, usually by DMs, for people who have proven to be able to take those kinds of hits and who can use the story to drag the server into something deeper and more malevolent than they could ever achieve otherwise. If done properly, it's the pinnacle of evil and heartbreak. If done poorly, it's the acme of asshole. Tormak has pointed out one of my critical logical flaws- I tend to assume everyone is capable of RP of that caliber, when many simply can't deal with it for whatever reason. As with many things, I am mistaken. In light of this, it may be better to implement a rule of no children period- we will of course suffer the loss of depriving ourselves of such excellently powerful potential RP, but as a consolation nobody will have to be uncomfortable that something they don't like is happening to a collection of pixels child.
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Selmak
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Ace of Swords wrote: I'm willing to concede that I'd be fine with a rule against RP'd children getting killed, but I am vehemently against a rule simply forbidding people to take their children with them. That's getting a little too much into Big Brother territory for my tastes. Imagine a DM on the server trying to enforce a rule about roleplayed children not being killed - right after two players have just got themselves into that very situation. Do they retcon the last fifteen minutes and let you try again, or do they retcon the kids from it completely and insist that you keep the tykes at home where they belong? A rule isn't any good unless it acts as a deterrent to the situation ever occurring. To be clear, there should be no child endangerment on Amia. I don't care if your character is the evillest of the evil, find another amusing hobby for them. And by 'your', I dun mean you specifically Ace, sorry.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Evil typically kills children. There is a plot currently gong whereupon many children would have been murdered if PCs hadn't stepped in. It is a plot element and a story device.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Silvarus
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Selmak wrote: To be clear, there should be no child endangerment on Amia. I don't care if your character is the evillest of the evil, find another amusing hobby for them. And by 'your', I dun mean you specifically Ace, sorry. Proper evil characters should be able to kidnap children, replace them with dopperlgangers and feed the poor kids to their paladin brothers as "pork" in a nice polite dinner. Those are the kind of characters that make villains that someone will actually bother to try and defeat, instead of gigglesnuggling.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Sadly, I have to side with Silvarus in part.
Children should be a viable and threatened target for Evil. It shouldn't nescessarily quite be easy , but it should be there.
That said at the same time, good should be able to oppose them with just as much fervour (without nescessarily crossing into the vein of themselves becoming *censored* monsters, but that could be a valid choice if they go the extremist route).
All I ask, in the end is a simple, ABC rule.
Action, Begets, Consequence.
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Lutra
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 21:48 PM |
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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You don't die on Amia...so why do you make children? There is no point to do it.....
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Selmak
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 23:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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TormakSaber wrote: Evil typically kills children. There is a plot currently gong whereupon many children would have been murdered if PCs hadn't stepped in. It is a plot element and a story device. Well it goes back to what you said. Many players aren't mature enough to use this sort of plot device responsibly on their own. So don't let them use it on their own. It's not that I don't trust players to exercise their better judgement before getting into this sort of thing, I just think that before anyone goes down this sort of road, they should have an informed and impartial perspective. In other words, they should get a DM. It's not like the kids are going to whip out a portal wand and escape from the villain's clutches while they are waiting. This should not be something that gets done because players are bored and are looking for a quick path past badassery and beyond the Moral Event Horizon. It's got to be done properly if it's to be done at all.
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Mon, Jul 19 2010, 23:50 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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Selmak wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Evil typically kills children. There is a plot currently gong whereupon many children would have been murdered if PCs hadn't stepped in. It is a plot element and a story device. Well it goes back to what you said. Many players aren't mature enough to use this sort of plot device responsibly on their own. So don't let them use it on their own. It's not that I don't trust players to exercise their better judgement before getting into this sort of thing, I just think that before anyone goes down this sort of road, they should have an informed and impartial perspective. In other words, they should get a DM. It's not like the kids are going to whip out a portal wand and escape from the villain's clutches while they are waiting. This should not be something that gets done because players are bored and are looking for a quick path past badassery and beyond the Moral Event Horizon. It's got to be done properly if it's to be done at all. Couldn't agree more. If I may ask for clarification, are you suggesting "Ask a DM" when a conflict comes up involving a child other than a child PC?
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Selmak
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 8:31 AM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Well yes. If a player of a child PC is not convinced that the plot has been seriously considered, they can and should call a DM. If a child character is not a PC, then you need to do the same, otherwise there is no consistency.
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Roppi
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 9:15 AM |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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Honestly though, people get killed in the wilds. I don't see why should it be any different for children/babies.
Death happens. The wilds are supposed to be dangerous. Even more so for a kid. Its silly to make it so care-bearish to the point where people have to call a DM to enter pvp when a kid is involved. There are already rules in place - giving an out etc etc.
Onus should be on children or pregnant women to be smart and stay indoors or take the out and gtfo.
Im of the opinion that whether one is an infant, kid, pregnant woman, old man, half drow, she-male - you all die the same according to the rules. No age/gender/race should get special OOC treatment.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 10:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I would aim higher, anti-kid-killers. Campaign for George Lucas to remove the bit in Episode 3 where Anakin kills all the sproglets.
He was happy enough to make Greedo shoot first...
Another option is to partition fiction and reality better.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 11:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I'd rather petition for the on screen eviseration of Jar Jar Binks if I was to petition Geroge Lucas for anything.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
Last edited by Selvec Darkon on Tue, Jul 20 2010, 14:21 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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HellScourge
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 12:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Uberuce wrote: I would aim higher, anti-kid-killers. Campaign for George Lucas to remove the bit in Episode 3 where Anakin kills all the younglings.
Corrected that for you. ^^ _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...]
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Xaviera
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 14:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Roppi wrote: Onus should be on children or pregnant women to be smart and stay indoors or take the out and gtfo. Basically this. If you bring your pregnant self or your infant child into the wilderness and get into PvP or PvE, you're risking the child's life. And people will do it. And people will complain when something happens, spouting shouts of 'unfair' to the DMs - like many current PvP situations. Selmak wrote: Imagine a DM on the server trying to enforce a rule about roleplayed children not being killed - right after two players have just got themselves into that very situation. Do they retcon the last fifteen minutes and let you try again, or do they retcon the kids from it completely and insist that you keep the tykes at home where they belong? BTW, I do support RP involving the death of children, if done well. And yes, killing them can be done well. _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Selmak
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 16:03 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Okay well, I doubt the original poster's motives for bringing this up. You've all been happy to jump in and have a bash while they sit back and.... I don't know, wait for some kind of consensus or rule one way or the other so they can go ahead (or not go ahead) with what they had planned. I'm not saying that is the case, by the way. But this topic sucks and I wish it would sink to the bottom of the forum never to be discussed again. Colapops wrote: And you guarantee it won't happen by posting that! Let's keep it bumped to the top, buddy! No, I don't think so.
Last edited by Selmak on Tue, Jul 20 2010, 16:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Colapops
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 16:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Keep your distance.
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And you guarantee it won't happen by posting that! Let's keep it bumped to the top, buddy!
_________________ The origin of storms.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 17:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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And you guarantee it won't happen by posting that! Let's keep it bumped to the top, buddy!
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2010, 17:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No one likes a copycat.
I am aware of what you did.
Irony.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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