But you are talking about commoners who don't know any better. Plus the goblins in any other place would be there to pillage and kill what they can get their hands on.

Amia is different in that anyone who has been around for a while would have to be blind to deny the fact that good and peaceful goblins are possible, or that a big population of drow are not lolthite worshiping murderers. A reasonably intelligent and perceptive amian would have to accept that all drow/goblins/whatever are evil goes out the window, for whatever reason.

In reply to paladins... I would argue that a paladin striking down a good aligned goblin not doing anything bad or threatening would be committing an evil act and would be subject to a fall. On mainland faerun the chances of this happening are slim as most goblins would be evil and a threat. On amia it is a known and apparent fact that this is not the case, so the paladin would be required to think before striking.

Racism is bad in real life, because real life minorities aren't goblins or orcs. They're not inherently predisposed to violence, or laziness, or other claims that have been made about various ethnicities.

In Faerun, however, these things are true about some groups.

Um, just with that example. They wouldn't. Not if the Drow is a lolthite. Now as for Elistraeens, hate is fine, but outright killing isn't. It's actually against the dogma of the elven gods. Elistraeens are protected.

Lolthites and non-elistraeen drow are free game however. Now what can get you trouble with these however is if the Non-Elistraeen drow have been adopted by a group. In which case that group may not be to fond of the idea of having their members attacked. They then may accuse racism as a means of gaining allies.

A lot of the time it's not the hate of an evil race that people dislike, it's other things behind it.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

Well, as for orcs, what about the Kingdom of Many-arrows? A nation of orcs that tries to coexist and pick up trade with the other kingdoms of the realm. I think this got mostly dropped with the move to fourth edition, but the seeds for a proper organized orc kingdom incorporating itself into the world of Faerun are there.

I don't argue that the majority of faerunians would be racist and bigoted but the way I read the setting and stories, they are being wrong.

To me the only form of racism that can exist in Amia is between members of same species. Such as Mulan vs Chultan, or more aptly Sun Elves vs other elves, where the difference between the people are subtle and cultural, rather than the drastic difference between say, Humans and Orcs, which is completely alien to us in the real world.

Treating Orcs/Goblins/Kobolds/Drow/etc as monsters is not racism. Its realism.

You see, thats the thing. The moment you go "Amia's different" You've pretty much conceded the point that the setting isnt the same as FR.

Im not saying whether its bad or wrong. But thats what the topic creator was saying. It isnt normal.
Its almost like signing up to play DnD and suddenly finding its a sci-fi setting.

IVe heard that in the past, god children were allowed alongside with all sorts of weird races. Was that normal? No. Was that actually healthy to the server? Most would debate about it. My thoughts are that yes, it was a great step for the DMs to curb the absurdities like gods getting bigbyed, kissed, killed etc and have devils sharing cookies with demons.

Taking your argument however, there is nothing wrong with demons sharing cookies with devils.

What about a stupid, unperceptive Amian? Because we have *lots* of those. (This is a joke, not a serious point.)

I do see the point you're making, but I would maintain that the bumpkins whose racism you're willing to forgive is the population from which adventurers are often drawn. Once one of those villagers picks up a sword and goes out looking for gold and glory, a sudden transformation into "adventurer" has occurred, and it's not rational to insist that they change their worldview in an instant simply because they've acquired first level in a PC class. It's perfectly reasonable to play this learning process out over time, through RP, and for some characters it's going to take longer than others. Maybe a lot longer. And that doesn't make them evil.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

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Then the complain should be about the presence of good drow, goblins and devils on amia. People react to the setting properly, it is the setting that is out of the norm and not the way people act and react to it.

I argue that amians act and behave the way faerunians would if the numbers of good ''monster'' races was as prevalent elsewhere. Acting otherwise would be ignoring amia as it is presented.

I like a healthy blend of all. Give me medieval, stone age, classical, modern, post-modern, give me it all! FR is not medieval and it's not modern, it's a fantasy world with a bit of everything. Is there a bit too much modern thought here on Amia though? It can be argued for, I suppose. But Amia certainly isn't totally modernized. There's plenty of old world thought that I see.

Secondly, I really find it hard pressed to call hating Orcs, Drow and the like an "evil" action. It's actually pretty rational in a setting like FR. A Paladin who see's a tiefling running around has every right to be "racist." A Druid or Ranger who see's an Orc run in to the Forest with an axe has every tight to be "racist."

Each group of people and even down to the individual has a different experience. People have their set feelings, moral codes, religions, etc. which creates the conflict needed to make a game like this entertaining and fun for all who enjoy DnD for what it's meant to be: conflict oriented.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

Good drow are established Realmslore. Amia did not invent Eilistraee.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

They are also so rare that most would not even know they exist, as on the mainland there are only a few elistrean shrines and the good drow stay in hiding. I don't think people are rping things wrong, they just react and adjust to what they see.

Amia is different in that good drow and what not are common and not hiding. Characters like Qirlan act as if they were in mainland faerun Evermeet, and I would argue they don't react to the world which is presented but to a world they think Amia should be. If all of Faerun were like amia, with all the different races and characters common in other places, then the people's views would change and adjust to that.

Isn't Drizz't supposed to be famous in this universe?

Cybercreep, we stopped deleting your accounts on the condition that you wouldn't post. Cease.

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Mostly Retired

What usually buggers me is the endless amount of knowledge that many amian PC's seem to have. For instance, when my Ranger sees a shifter changed into a Raksaasha, or a minotaur prancing about, his first line of thought is "What the bloody hell is happening?!", not "ooh, another shifter". When he then calls out to warn others of what he percieves as a dangerous, bloodthirsty monsters, more often than not the following responses are often made by bystanders: "Sheesh, it's propbably only a shifter", "hey stupid, are you so dumb you can't see it's a shifter" and variations over that. Now I don't take insults to my character as ooc, but it does break my immersion somewhat that some chars seems to know everything about every monstrous race in existance. Where do adventurers learn all this?

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Experience. Tauronemhet has encountered probably a dozen shifters and knows the lay of Amia and Khem in terms of monsters. Once something becomes common, as with shifters, it is no longer surprising.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

I have to agree with most of what Lizzie has said.. especially about women.

I also agree that yes some modern these are alright as long as it isn't too modern. I as a player think about this all the time.. also about the shifter thing.. I personally react on what my character knows. Period. If she has been exposed to a lot of shifters then she would know. If not then she would react accordingly.

I also feel like there is some hate going on still in Cordor.. I see it at least once a day and I hang out there a lot. My characters attitudes are actually fueled by the fact that hate exists. Mina specifically is very tolerant for reasons that happened IG.

About the amnesia comment. Yes I have a character who has amnesia.. (har har) but she does already have a past story and uncovering that story is part of the fun. I'm not offended by the comment but it's just like most characters I've met are orphans. I know it isn't true -so I shouldn't say it...and here I thought I was being original. lol

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Plays: Mina Ashby, Meche, and Winter Addams

I have trouble with that as well.. walk into the forest of amia and there is a mind-flayer running around. My character would react swiftly, she would kill it before it could turn her into a thrall and ask questions later. But, this is still a game and OOC considerations and rules need to be thought about. Sometimes it forces a character to do ridiculous things like... walk up to the mind-flayer and ask something like "excuse me... are you really a mind-flayer hellbent on turning me into a mindless slave or are you one of them strange shifter types?"

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"It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."

It bugs you that adventurers accustomed to wandering the planes and diving into the Underdark for loot are not surprised by monsters in civilized areas? Especially when many of them are shifters themselves? I mean, really. If an adventurer saw a minotaur or mindflayer or even a rakshasa, their first reaction would not be "what in the name of God" but rather "oh man, I hope I get to it first!"

Then you see that the monster in question is standing in the peaceful forest glade with other druids and shifters while talking to them casually. Hmm.

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The origin of storms.

Heh. I've had people have a go at me for having my character not assuming their PC in spider form was a shifter. More times than I'd like to say, really. It's a shame it's that way, but It doesn't bother me all to much. I play how I play. Each to their own.

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"The householder's disdain for the vagabond hides a hint of jealousy."

~ A hin proverb

As the player of a Shifter, I want to punch them.

The 'how people react to my char calling out monsters who are actually shifters' is but one example, and admitedly perhaps not the best. What i tried to portray was the immersion breaking effect 'know it all' chars have. Not 'know it all' as in being an arrogant turd, those chars I love, but those who take it for granted that everyone knows, say, the difference between demons and devils, or that kobolds live this and this long, or the exact name and effect of flashy spells and such. It's all fine and dandy if said chars happen to know all those things for a reason, but it usually leaves me with a 'meh' feeling. Part of the fun goes away when your char has been scared shitless by something he would believe is incredibly powerful, strange, bizarr etc, but is then explained in a very nonchalant tone everything from where that thing comes from down to its period cycle.

I suppose that what i am trying to say is that the monsters are no longer monsters. There is nothing scary or mysterious about them. And when you do make your char fear them, that fear is so easily dispelled. I'll be quiet now.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

This is all well and good but is ultimately the same as the shifter thing you quoted. There are, very believably, some adventurers who do know all of the stuff they're talking about. They're epic adventurers, after all. They've traveled through the planes, they've fought demons and devils, (s)layed dragons of all types, and perhaps actually have found the Fountain of Life beneath the Mirror of the Sun, next to the Golden Fleece. They've seen and done almost everything there is to see or do... what you are annoyed by seems to be that other characters are more advanced than your own--not necessarily in the sense that they're higher level or more powerful, but in that they have seen it and done it already.

Example: I played Leeri, at first, as completely out-there when it came to tieflings, kobolds, and the like. But by now, when (normal) kobolds wouldn't even be able to harm her if she was nude, there is no reason for her to be apprehensive of them because she's an adventurer who could destroy an entire kobold colony singlehandedly. Likewise, she has met as many tieflings who are tolerable as people as she has ones that are evil, lying scumbags. The same goes for drow; before Amia, she'd never even heard of them. Her first meeting with one? Eilistraeen. I don't think she's met a Lolthite yet.

Obviously that's just my character, but there's no reason other characters wouldn't have similar experiences. The simple fact is that Amia is an island swarming with adventurers, and whether through tolerance or apathy, there will always be an attitude of acceptance for bizarre races and creatures, many times those who would otherwise be ostracized or killed outright, simply because they are adventurers. It's just how D&D works.

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The origin of storms.

You know, this is something I usually take time to consider when I am RPing my PCs, just how much of the information I possess they would know about, as well as opinions and mannerisms.

The best I have come up with so far is that it depends on the seriousness of the RP. For example, if I am playing a comical character of some sorts and the people I am RPing with appear the humorous sort, I would occasionally throw out some references to modern pop culture or the like.
If I am playing a serious PC, or am RPing with those who like to keep things serious then I try to maintain as much of my PC's own personality as I can. Easier said the done.

Basically I like both aspects of it, the serious RP and the fun casual stuff, the only thing I don't like is when PCs carry to strong opinions about something and just ignore the possible consequences.
I've had quite a few people insult my PCs ICly when they were doing something they did not approve of, I as a player generally try to avoid PvP when I but there are times when I just want to cast a GR on them.

If there's a fully enchanted cleric standing before you, you MIGHT want to consider showing a little fear and not act like he couldn't twist your head off barehanded.

I've always seen Cordor as something similar in a few ways to Sigil. Just less powerful races. Cordor has a reputation for 'tolerance' for some races. This type of thing can usually be carried along as gossip, or rumor, or legend. A safe haven 'Hey, if you're constantly getting ragged on, or hunted..and you're kinda tired of it, and are trying to lead a decent life I hear there is some isle way off to the west that a lot of ...'people' like you are.' Its sort of like the ethnic build up effect IRL, in my mind, like Chinatown, or Little Italy, etc.

I think that people are here to have fun. We have DC's to reward people who are doing it right and ban hammers for dealing with people who violate rules. If you don't like what happens in between those two things? You need to focus more on your RP and less on what other people are doing, that's my advice.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Plenty of people never see DCs. This does not mean they're doing it wrong. Focusing on your own RP is a rather mean-spirited statement, given that you'd simply be playing a single player campaign or writing fanfics as opposed to logging in to a 65 person capacity server to interact with others.

I can understand what the topic starter meant, but he was trying to do it in a round-about method as to not get it flamed down and locked instantly. Frankly, I was logging in for a week solely to see if Qirlan was around and actually generating RP through his personal dillemma that had grown out of control, otherwise I would pass on being on at all except late in the evening to see if there was an event playing out I could meddle in.

Being ambivalent at best and vicarious at worst while standing around the forest does get old at some point.

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Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

Meh, if a shifter take the form of an destructive creature and starts acting like it too, unless they shifter and inform me they're not that creature, guess what? They're being hostile and I'm going to wipe the mat with them. If a shifter in minotaur form rampages toward me, I'm killing it, no questions. There does seem to be a little too much relaxation in regards to running into a shifter already shifted into something destructive, but oh well. That's the way it is. But, I have to say I've only had to attack a shifter for acting like the crazed thing they're shifted into a handful of times over the years I've been here. Most shifters don't know how to act like their creature type so it gives it away quick.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

Only could read through half of this, so I don't know if this has been said, but let's been honest, the Forgotten Realms are a product intended for a mass audience as much as is possible. Hence, like most fantasy, it is very modern in regards to mores with little more than an aesthetic coat of castles and dragons and other "medieval" staples to make it feel romantic. Personally, I would be much more interested in a setting that had the medieval *ideals* of romance and chivalry even if, or especially if, it lacked said castles and dragons but I am very much aware (an awareness deepened by my time here) that I am in a very small minority on that point.

Ergo, FR isn't really the setting for you if "modern attitudes and taboos" in your fantasy irk you. I would suggest trying to start a faction of likeminded people, but expect to meet a lot of resistance or confusion when dealing with other people. For example, as most people know nothing of monasticism, trying to explain my character Ukre's lifestyle IC often turns into a banal debate about vegetarianism, rather than the virtues of asceticism and philosophy of renunciation.

Which does bring my to another point I want to make though. It's true that tolerance is "objectively good" in DnD, however it really needs to be said that tolerance is just that, to tolerate others. If my aforementioned character wishes to exclude a certain type of race from his community, or especially from positions of authority within his community, he can still very much be good, as long as he is not actively persecuting members of said race without just cause. In other words, the modern liberal state's institutions of affirmative action and ideas of equal opportunity are not in any way required in order for one to be "tolerant".

For example, if you sincerely believe in separate but equal, or even separate but not entirely equal, as long as you respect someone's "right" to exist you are being tolerant. Many early black activists actually did believe in pursuing separate but equal policy no less, and I think it's pretty inappropriate to say they were being racist towards themselves on that matter. Not every place has to be Cordor, which is only the way it is IC due to commerce trumping everything (which is largely why "multiculturalism" is predominant policy in the real world now as well) and OOC due to being the newb place. You can have your character or town or faction be exclusivist or provincial and still very much be good. Paladins for example, are and often support the institution of nobility, which is by default exclusivist and unequal.

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Former characters:
Dawnbringer Goodmane
Gralg Elfbane
Ukre Cobcruncher
Ug Rhalac

I consider getting a Dreamcoin as recognition that I am in fact doing something right.
My standard for 'right' usually is perfect, or to the very best one can do.

Do note I did not say not getting one was doing something wrong. There's more than one reason why you can't. Lack of DM coverage/availability, as well as other reasons. I say very specifically what I mean, and mean what I say. The only time I mean what I don't say is in jest and it is something that is implied.

There is nothing wrong at all with focusing on your own RP. The context which this is taken from has to do with the topic at hand. I think that if what other people is bothering you OOCly enough that you need to rant on it, that you should be focusing on other things.

Also; to focus on your RP, ergo your character's goals self and such, does not preclude (nor should it) affecting the world which by extension involves others.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

I figure it varies by DM, and I can only give me own opinion as not being one, but I always thought of DC's being just tokens of DM's showing your RP is appreciated. I'm quite sure most of the ones that I've gained haven't been because I'm doing something "right" so much as I'm doing something that adds to the server dialogue and story as a whole, and thereby enjoyment of RP.

In any case, on topic, I've said enough about these things in the past I think. My only quarrel comes when in fact monster races are involved and encountered in the wild. And it's likely not what most people are thinking. My characters often automatically assume that such are hostile if encountered in the wild, but I always wait/ask/expect the fellow PC to RP something that sets them a bit apart from their wild(er) kin before I emote any hostile action(which happens a lot of the time anyway). Or just read their bio. It's partly limited by the visual models and WYSIWYG. But *A lute over the shoulder* or *wearing a satchel with neat pockets* easily tells a PC that this likely isn't your average monster, but it doesn't mean you have to be buddbuddyhugsngiggles with em. In fact none of mine are. They each have their own opinions formed about the situation of "civilized" monster races based on their experiences and personal beliefs. And in the end, that's all you can ask of any player to RP. Not so much "right" or "wrong", but appropriate to the situation and the characters involved.

Honestly, pretty well got shut down hard OOC for trying to shake things up really.

Regardless, your last statement has some truth to it really. The main thing I think is that a lot of players I feel are scared of playing hated characters that are not outright pure evil. That is just death to a roleplayer to be scared of playing a character that may grow to be hated. Ultimately, it means that you will not as a character do or say anything controversial, and it is exactly a role of fiction to be able to do that - Dionysus etc.

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Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

I've a question for a DM regarding this. Would it be sufficient RP to emote something along the lines *Prepares to kill the illithid should it approach any closer unless it explains itself*? That way, you have your common-sense response (in the immortal words of Gaston "Kill the Beast!"), and an RP out for the Shifter (speak, de-shift etc.).

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

the racism is fine, leave it be. what game are you playing?

also, in the medevil times/setting, people drink more and don't preach about clear minds 24/7. yes you knights, y'all should be wasted. and i've yet to see a dwarf pass out. or heavily drink. and even second hand smoking, I give the same responce as in real life, don't stand near me then

I don't agree with the whole rant but certain things are bugging me, like the drinking.

ed: clerics and certain deitys excluded from the drinking and clear minds comment.

ed2: also "terrorist actions" come on, we all know we didn't use language like that pre 2001...what happened to calling people blasphemers and heretics?

In situations like that, yup. As long as it is crystal clear to the opposing player that they do in fact have an out (whether they take it or not), it's clean.

This will be all covered when we re-write the PvP Rules at some point in the near future. (No, we're not changing the rules, just rewriting them to make them easier to read)

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Mostly Retired

That's good to hear, thanks.

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"It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."

I have been playing on Amia for only a few months, but I have been roleplaying in computer and pnp for better part of 20 years and I have to say that the problem the OP is pointing out is not limited to NWN, Amia or computer base rpgs. Its completely alive in pnp as well and I must say I doubt Gary Gygax created Dungeons and Dragons as an extention of western propaganda

I think the problem lies with many players being unable to seperate IC And OOC, how many times have characters got into a needless IC argument completely contrary to their supposed background or backstory because the player feel agrieved or OOC insulted.

The whole point of roleplay is to set aside "Bob the banker" or "John the taxi driver" and become "Bran the Blade!" a mighty warrior of the North who has travelled far and wide and has come to Cordor to rid the town of the orcs, goblins and kobolds who infest the surrounds and raid and pillage.
Of course by "rid the town" we don't mean write them an angry letter, or engage in nice polite discourse, we mean slaughter them without mercy, they are an opposing faction of evil beings who worship and evil deity and who do evil on a daily basis. Regardless of 20nd/21st century hand wringer thinking the player might have, "Bran the Blade" Knows these facts to be true his entire life experience although not represented by any rule mechanic in nwn or pnp screams this truth to him everytime he sees and orc or kobold.

However what then happens in Cordor North when Bran the Blade sets of to slaughter some Blood Moon Orcs and runs into a half orc, goblin or kobold (who just happens to be a player although Bran doesn't know this of course)
Does he draw sword and slaughter the foul beast? ICly usually yes without hesitation, however both players have OOC server rules to follow, and so Bran stays his hand for now.

What happens next is the crunch of the matter in my opinion, in this example Bran should remain completely hostile in attitude and stance to the orc (or whatever evil race) regardless of any OOC considerations about how the orc might be a nice fellow inside if only he had not been raised by evil creatures and indoctrinated to an evil God.
Yet often a polite chat will take place where by names will be exchanged and soon after an enquiry of the ECL will be made leading to a party being formed and the next thing you know Bran the Blade is teaming up with "Groxfondler the champion of Gruumsh" to slaughter some orcs...

In conclusion I personally would like to see players take more time to think on the context of their character, to try and see the world through the coloured lenses of Bran the Blade (insert your character name here) to take into account ICly the characters history that isn't represented by NWN mechanics or a lengthy (and needless metagamey ingame bio) This is the very definition of roleplay.

For sometime now all my characters have on this ingame bio and short ooc message at the end;

[Party chat filtered, RP or it didn't happen]

Some players have thanked me for this mindset as it has dragged them away from the "Diablo" style of token RP then onto the serious business of OOC Party chat controlled farming of dungeons and brought them back into a more RP focused mindset.

Other players however have responded with scorn and flaming tells in game with such comments as "dude that was not cool it was not your turn to loot, comon man we talked about this in party chat and we allllllll agreed to split the loot ABC" (<- direct quote)
The same player then went into a several tell rant about how I was a ninja looter and how i was not obeying the DM sanctioned use of OOC in party chat to run the party (basically the group was discussing ooc in partychat what buffs to use and whose turn it was to loot and a whole range of non-game related ooc spam)

My single reply tell was "RP or it didn't happen" strangely enough I was kicked from the group who then portalled away shortly after this...

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Æ special character = ALT+0198

Party chat filtered, RP or it didn’t happen

...and unfortunately the definition of roleplay fits best in an environment where you're doing it solo, otherwise you are going to offend someone and that will be the end of that.

On that note, "Bran the Blade" may go off into the world all gung-ho and stuff, looking to save the princess, slay the Bowser dragon, and collect gold coins for retirement, only to end up a bit jaded as he realizes there's a few bazillion others doing it as well, and they haven't hit the jackpot while the princess is in another castle.

Perhaps he's looking for some good ol' fashioned MDK, but in the end arthritis does in his swinging arm, so he retires to a place with nice hot springs and a busty blonde who teaches you how to do things with your other hand.

The issue is both IC and OOC, although which one begins and justifies the other over time usually becomes too hard to discern, much less matter. Whether the character has become jaded ICly and thus OOCly, or the antics of certain types of characters grinding on a player OOCly ends up transmitted ICly, it's going to happen.

Some things are simply unavoidable, and it's not about whether something is really being executed well or not - it's about whether you're having fun or not. For some, it's about having been there and done that, and thusly hanging about with one another for their mutual company.

If it's not for you, go do something else, and if you can't go do something else, well...I don't know how to answer that either, aside from taking an extended break. Admittantly my character's few friends/allies are very scarce as of late, and being up to no good simply doesn't pay when people just kill you with death...

Especially when they can kill you with death to deal with an RP situation, but that's a different argument altogether.

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Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

"Tell us! What can a warrior hope for in age? Is it the crying of the woman of the man he defeated?"
"Is it the rush of excitement when killing his foes?"
"Is it the fame of one when one overlooks his kingdom?"
*Cohen pauses and ponders* "Good soup, a good hemoroid salve and soft toilet paper."


Whatever the case, I've seen and played my fair share of all welcoming characters and elves, and humans, who see anyone else as a bother. Especially my human who got robbed by a pair of hin (Thanks for the Rp guys!), she totally ticked off and threw them of the bridge in Cordor into the water. Since that day is she mistrusting of any hin she encounters, mind, she doesn't sees that many. <.<

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"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong."
"I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."

Being able to understand your characters innate intuition, objectives, history, mannerism, persona and inconsistencies is all part of the creation process. If you do not understand any of those things, you will constantly be in a state of limbo with your character. You will be easily persuaded one way or another, find yourself in factions you don't necessarily find interesting, or find yourself seeking reassurance by bending over backwards for players that have their own agendas sorted out.

I play the way I play because I got sick of trying to appease people. I created a character that would be edgy, objective and remembered. His entire design has been the foundation of every word I choose for him to speak. His every actions is designed by me to incorporate the symbolism I seek to convey. His overall objective is altered, destroyed, rebuilt, executed, waylaid, chewed up, spat out, spat on and repeated so many times because he's never truly achieved it.

I don't play with modernity in mind. I play canon lore.

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'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'

On the shifter comment: Sure an Epic character probably has encounter shifters and other creatures before. My character was in a low level dungeon and this Risenlord walked in. (PC of course) Most of us RP'd logically... holy crap what is this giant skeleton with a huge scythe doing here? But this person who was between ECL 4-7 just goes It's just a shifter are you guys dumb? My ex boyfriend was a shifter and it's why I broke up with him.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being overly sensitive but it seemed more like someone using OOC knowledge with a lame excuse to make it sorta look IC. Granted I don't know, maybe they really did ICly date a shifter and break up with him, though what level 7 at best looks at a Risenlord and goes relax it's just a shifter. Secretly I hoped he would scythe her face off >_>;;

thats my one other annoyance with amia, "ecl?" who cares what level you are if your on a trek to some place providing its not a melee party, which it usually is. I tend not to join partys that randomly add me anymore, just xp mining and thats not why im here.

i'm not saying trek through the quagmires at level 1 and expect to live, Im saying it kills prolonged RP cause people always assume you want to melee for XP...and duels, forget ecl, just stab me already and prepare to feel the wrath of spiky and sparky, thats how you tell who wins, don't back down oocly due to stats, that sucks. (ed: and or tell me to back down oocly due to stats, cause I won't if the situation calls for a duel.)

and now, for those who forgot, words other than terrorist: heretic, blasphemer, traitor, scum, villain, notorious, sell out, murderer, warlord, (serial) killer, feind, outcast, demon/deamon (like magic and magick, somewhat a preferance choice. true magick irl is with the K...no really.) fallen one, the powers that be. etc.

feel free to add more, I don't want to see the words terrorist actions used again. far far too modern. even guy fawkes wasn't branded terrorist, he was a traitor, I hope you understand my point.

ed: now I remember, attrocities, words like that.

Ah mah gahhd.

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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

Well, after foolishly venturing into TV Tropes and losing a few hours days I have returned.

Our Monsters are Different
Our Elves are Better

Let me state that "anyone who has been around for a while would have to be blind to deny that some people have managed to Disneyfy a nice little section of the world" is more of the symptom of the underlying irk rather than a concrete fact on which you can judge other peoples' playstyles as good or bad.

As Logicality pointed out, there's a horrible mixing of real-world liberalism with the fantasy setting. A number of folks have this tendency to create a character, log in, and then go about imposing their modern-world beliefs and attitudes on everything. In a psuedo-medieval setting, it's rather jarring to see people acting like everything should be treated by modern norms.

But you know what? I could live with that if it were real modern norms as opposed to the TV-Land black and white morality where all people who support cause X are bad and all people who run around saving others are good and all creatures should be given a chance because they might be good-hearted, no matter how evil their race may be. That's just... how do you put it...

Stupid.

You may as well stick an "exploit and/or abuse me" sign on your head. There are no human rights here, there's no universal justice or morals even in the real world. Everything we live in as a modern society is a direct byproduct of that society we've created. When you inject a character into a fantasy society, you do not get a free pass to carry another society's beliefs and morals with you when there would be no way whatsoever for your character to actually develop a number of those ideas without actually living in a modern society.

A sad byproduct of this is the bloated Drizzt population we have floating around. It's depressingly common to run into people who don't even have a clue of what their race is supposed to be doing or their archetype, to the point where multiple drow have responded to the question "What drove you to leave the Underdark?" with, essentially, "Where?". And it doesn't just extend to drow- no, every race no matter how mundane or evil becomes little more than a skin put on a modern-day person to impose themselves on a world where half the people don't want to see it and the other half invites them to tea (or worse).

Now, a lot of this is a rant- I'm not trying to impose my ideals on people, but at the same time I'm expressing why I'm more than a little ticked that people deem it appropriate to impose their ideals on me ingame and merely use their characters as a thinly-veiled conduit for their views. Me, I tend to be of the cynical variety and often play characters of that type- but more importantly I do my research. I consider how real people would react to a situation- not what the politically correct response would be. Example: You are a convenience store owner. Every race visits your store, but every time a black person walks in they either steal something or hold up the store for money (Yes I know the example is racist, that's part of the point here, if you think using a racist example makes me racist I have a bridge to sell you). Now, say you're in your store one day and a black person walks in. How would you react?

The people who don't get what I'm saying most likely said "I would let him do as he pleases as long as it's within the law and not suspect him more than anyone else because he's the same as any other person". And that's the politically correct answer, and the one that is to be preferred in a perfect world, where the string of previous robberies by black people would've been merely a strange set of coincidences.

Real people would either exercise their right to deny service and tell them to get out while keeping a hand on the revolver under the counter or watch the guy like a hawk- after all, the last ten black people who walked in robbed the place. Doesn't matter if the black guy's a NYPD firefighter, medal of honor recipient, AND a local boy scout leader and priest. There's a classifiable subtype (race) that has screwed your store over 100% of the time it's been present. No matter how racist it is, you can bet damn well you'll be on your guard at the very least.

That's why it bugs me endlessly when people accept a new drow, goblin, kobold, orc, etc with little more than "Oh hi, what's your name?" with absolutely no regard to the earned reputation that the vast, vast majority of the species has spent eons getting. Even though they're part of an evil, evil bunch of bastards, they should get the chance to prove themselves on their own merits. I'm not saying I don't like them existing at all, but if they do it'd be nice to see people RP even an actual real-world reaction rather than whatever they think is politically correct. As it stands, the attitudes a lot of people have are as realistic as the magic they use.

Ace of Swords, I salute you for putting it together with hours days of research in most eloquent fashion. Thank you.

Edit: I guess I should've expanded a little. There's still the problem of "I've already proven myself to others" and players may view it as monotonous to continue to do it, and then if they're with the friends they've proven it to, well, that's where you get that as well.

Just the fact it's so prolific and you can't tell if it's one or the other is the worst part.

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Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

Well guys, wrap it up. Roleplaying's done. Let's just move on out of here and go play some TF2.

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The origin of storms.

I forgot about the whole tv personality thing, I don't watch it for that exact reason. except cartoons, cartoons are always great and don't bore you to death while subliminaly telling you to buy some dudes new grill.

adverts = subliminal messaging = brainwashing. not even joking.

I also see a weird connection between kohl and rome, though i'm not sure its such a bad thing, at least its the correct time period and seaming stature of nobles, I have to admit ICly I was far too underwhelmed by the justicar, but ICly theres past issues with nobility so theres reason to it all.

does disneyfy have anything to do with the little people who run around causing mayhem drinking naught but chocolate milk? and at least one shrine I can think of, though its not always so quiet. you has good point bro.

also I get zero responce from dragon kin or at least I have in the last few days, is "stay the heck away from me and we'll be fine buddy" really unclear to y'all winged things or what? i'm not trying to start a fight icly but at least get pissed off...or something??

whats a TF2? roleplays just started, i've got a dwarf to prove wrong for starters.

Subliminal messaging (as in the fast pictures you dont have time to conciously notice) has by the way been scientifically proven to be utter bogus.

Also, I highly approve of the rant by Ace of Swords.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

It's not actually the fast moving pictures.. it's more of.. placement of object and color to effect mood, oh and every advert has some sex involved because sex sells. At least in magazines and commercials.

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Plays: Mina Ashby, Meche, and Winter Addams

whacky whailing arm flailing inflatable tube man, (repeat at least three times)

nuff said. (futurama referance. also, what marge said. also what ned said O_o)

its the repetition, the colours are simply sugestive to the context, however your right pychologically colours have different meanings worldwide, and also what I said doesn't work on everybody.

I think the main point we've established is RP harder than before, I shall take my own advice and attempt to do as such.

A very good post Ace of Swords ... initially I was scared by the number of TV Tropes links.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not subliminal messaging though. It's dishonest, but not subliminal.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

That's because I enjoy placing traps so much I even place them on the forum. A TV Tropes link is the forum equivalent of an Epic Tangle Trap.