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uber_geek
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 Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:03 PM |
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Joined: 13 Jan 2010
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So last night i was involved in a PvP incident in the north of Amia forest. Wrong place, wrong time. I was walking to the north and encountered half a dozen ioun stoned up, epic drow bent on destruction. They somehow managed to take down my level 6 rogue, along with at least a dozen epic good guys trying to fight them off.
After we were all dead, one of the drow (player name [DM EDIT: no names please]) went around and 'decapitated' me and a bunch of others.
How the heck am i supposed to RP this?!
Obviously players on Amia can't, and shouldn't be allowed to cause 'perma death' - but what do we do when one of them performs an action on you which RP-wise would certainly cause perma death? Surely your head doesn't grow back from a raise scroll! Give me a break.
It upset me that one player would do that to a BUNCH of other players, basically giving us all a tough RP reason not to be perma-killed.
Thoughts?
Uber.
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Fear not, it's not Pera-Killing you. It's to prevent some schmuck running around HIPSing and raising the dead via Raise Dead scrolls. Clerics with Ressurection can easily get the dead up.
There's been a little confusion of this of late because it's only been a fashionable thing to do over the last 2 days, but it is legit and nothing to worry about.
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Mathias of Constantinople
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: Québec
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I was surprised by this too when it started a couple days ago, but seems just to prevent others from using raise dead on your corpse. A cleric is needed to resurrect you, if I understand it right.
_________________ 
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Please dont go into details regarding specific incidents. Not nice. Please edit the names and the description of your incident out of your post. The reason bodies are decipitated is because of the difference between the easily available Raise Dead and the more proper Ressurection spell. As the Sidebar Spells page puts it: Quote: Raise Dead: The subject must be in one piece. You cannot raise some who has been beheaded, for example. Missing pieces will be missing after the spell is cast, though any mortal wounds are sealed. Those that have been undead or died of old age can't be raised.
Resurrection: The condition of the subject does not matter; if you have one proper piece of a person, you can raise him as long as the piece was intact at the moment of death. The subject's body regenerates around the piece being resurrected. Any other pieces, such as the severed head of the victim that someone might be keeping as a trophy, crumble to dust at the moment of resurrection. You can raise those who have been undead and then destroyed, but you can't raise anyone who's died of old age. Ie, it - RP wise, at least - stops any Tom Dick or Harry turning up with a Raise Scroll so you can carry on fighting them.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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...I remember like...3 years ago decapitating people was frowned on and possibly against the rules, as it meant perma-kill.
Then all of a sudden it became the norm. I could toss blame around, but I have no idea where it started. I found this a very hard postion to RP from also, and I'd like to have the act returned back to "Do not do this without persons permission", but its unlikely to happen. Rather, you kinda just ignore what they did...and it does feel lame, trust me. But if someone's going to RP that, and be lame, you yourself are likely going to follow the lame pathway. However, I personally won't rely on being rezed or perma-killed, as I never gave permission to do such, and no DM said someone could. If someone's not even willing to ask me via a quick tell, then I'm certaintly not going to consider it.
I suggest RPing it however you like. Ignore what people say about you not being alive, its complete ass, and they themselves are asses for attempting to perma-kill with no permission given.
@Metalien: Its been a fashion for a while with certain...players. I won't throw away blame, but there are certain parties directly responsible for this trend, as well as the hiding and raising tactic.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Mathias of Constantinople
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: Québec
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A couple days ago the decapitation-meaning-no-raise was DM-enforced in a large encounter in the underdark, so I'm assuming it has DM sanction too.
Perhaps we could get a ruling? Reading Selvec's post gives me a better idea of the negative impact.
_________________
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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I don't realy see a negative impact as I like the fact it stops someone running about in HIPS to raise people with a scroll. I've been witness to this so many times it's not even funny... you think the PvP is over and all of a sudden *Poof" a Dancer appears and raises half his mates before you've had time to blink... it takes some of the risk in Party PvP encounters away when you can rely on your trusted dancer to raise you.
At least this way it makes the PvP a little more exciting, both as a combat player and a cleric... The combat player because you -realy- don't wanna go down right away and it forces you to pick your opponants carefuly, the cleric because it gives you something useful to do other than hack and slash, it encourages clerics to be played as they should be played.
I'll admit that the first time I saw it happen in the UD Raid I was a little shocked and taken aback by it, but after talking with a couple of DMs and players, it makes sense and I back it fully.
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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if you don't want the shadow dancer raising people take points in spot.
decapitation is NOT an easy thing to do especially with an item like a longsword and with the figure laying on the ground (making it hard to sever the spinal column in an efficient motion)
to decapitate someone you would have to
1)remove any chainmail covering the neck
2)get a medium size or larger axe
so if you want to behead someone than imo it should be a 5 minute action... there should be no going from person to person in a group going *behead* *behead* *behead* and you should need to have an appropriate weapon with you. not something you add to a hotkey and hit everytime someone falls so you can bitch if they get raised.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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I think you forget that time almost means nothing on Amia. Nor does death.
Beheading isn't an easy action, no... But if you hack enough at the corpse... Or have a magically enhanced blade with say, flame weapon on it... It is easy enough to achieve within a short amount of time. Five minutes to decapitate someone is like taking five minutes to sheath a blade.
I don't necessarily agree with any arguements presented here. WYSIWYG. Sure, sometimes it stinks... But often times, losing is far more enjoyable than winning. And also offers more oppurtunities for roleplay in the long run.
Heck, plan your attack after finding out who commited the act, and do such a thing in return, but with the full force of DM over-view... Vengeance can be damn sweet.
_________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Then again, with 30 str you're going to have no problem with the spine or the chainmail.
Edit: Dammit, ninja'd
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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And yes... 30 str will indeed be enough to rid someone of a head.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Bjorn
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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Azarius wrote: if you don't want the shadow dancer raising people take points in spot.
decapitation is NOT an easy thing to do especially with an item like a longsword and with the figure laying on the ground (making it hard to sever the spinal column in an efficient motion)
to decapitate someone you would have to
1)remove any chainmail covering the neck
2)get a medium size or larger axe
so if you want to behead someone than imo it should be a 5 minute action... there should be no going from person to person in a group going *behead* *behead* *behead* and you should need to have an appropriate weapon with you. not something you add to a hotkey and hit everytime someone falls so you can bitch if they get raised. Actually, you can sever head with one good swing of medium sized bladed weapon if target wears no armour on the neck. If they do,and they are dead, you can still do it in very quick fashion, as most neck armour is either held with pins in case of plate, or is chainmail coif you can strip in matter of seconds. By PNP rules, coup de grace takes full round only.
_________________
I can be found as:
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Celador Moonhelm - Elven merchant
Garambar of Hillsalar Hall - Dwarven sage
Moraina - Grumpy Monk
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Azarius wrote: if you don't want the shadow dancer raising people take points in spot.
decapitation is NOT an easy thing to do especially with an item like a longsword and with the figure laying on the ground (making it hard to sever the spinal column in an efficient motion)
to decapitate someone you would have to
1)remove any chainmail covering the neck
2)get a medium size or larger axe
so if you want to behead someone than imo it should be a 5 minute action... there should be no going from person to person in a group going *behead* *behead* *behead* and you should need to have an appropriate weapon with you. not something you add to a hotkey and hit everytime someone falls so you can bitch if they get raised. How come the Romans could do it with something as small as a Gladius Sword? Also, a well trained Special Forces Operative can cut the throat from front to back in a couple of slices with something as small as a combat knife... and butchers can behead a pig in one whack, Nepalese can behead an entire cattle with one hack of a Kukri... the list goes on. The head doesn't have to be fully severed, all that is needed is the spine to be cut. Your argument is moot on all but one level, armour, I agree on this point. As for take points in Spot, not everyone wants to, some people would rather dump points into other, far more useful things (to them) than waste points on something that'll get used once every now and again. Edit: Ninja'd too 
Last edited by Metalien on Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:57 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Point taken... Round of action is 6 seconds. Full round action, 6 seconds. If the player says, 'Behead' etcetera. It should even be assumed he takes the full round action. Even if the mechanics are ashamedly not available for those who seek to protest the action.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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The Peacock wrote: Point taken... Round of action is 6 seconds. Full round action, 6 seconds. If the player says, 'Behead' etcetera. It should even be assumed he takes the full round action. Even if the mechanics are ashamedly not available for those who seek to protest the action. EDIT: Also ninja'd after ninja'ing. EDIT EDIT: Edit phail. _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Silvarus
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 13:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Bjorn wrote: Azarius wrote: if you don't want the shadow dancer raising people take points in spot.
decapitation is NOT an easy thing to do especially with an item like a longsword and with the figure laying on the ground (making it hard to sever the spinal column in an efficient motion)
to decapitate someone you would have to
1)remove any chainmail covering the neck
2)get a medium size or larger axe
so if you want to behead someone than imo it should be a 5 minute action... there should be no going from person to person in a group going *behead* *behead* *behead* and you should need to have an appropriate weapon with you. not something you add to a hotkey and hit everytime someone falls so you can bitch if they get raised. Actually, you can sever head with one good swing of medium sized bladed weapon if target wears no armour on the neck. If they do,and they are dead, you can still do it in very quick fashion, as most neck armour is either held with pins in case of plate, or is chainmail coif you can strip in matter of seconds. By PNP rules, coup de grace takes full round only. Yup, and a well aimed blow with a longsword goes trough almost anything. A longsword is a two-handed weapon though. 
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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I think the point here is that this is a trade off between a little bit of ralism for a little bit of finality to PvP.
You lose a little realism with the *Beheads* emote and gain an endgame to PvP..... and lets face it, we play a game where people can summon demons from the hells with a few waves of a hand and dragons and wizards and elves and gnome.. *drones on* ..all exist. Looking at the realism of this through a magnifying glass is a waste of energy.
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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1)flame weapon would add next to nothing to beheading. wysiwyg... flame weapon sets the blade on fire, this would not help cut through chain and it would not help cut through recently living flesh OR bone
2)if 30 str could ignore armor then there'd be a game mechanic that ignored armor at 30str and above
3)cite the sources wherre a roman could behead a person in a matter of seconds
3)special forces don't sever the spinal column, until that is severed I believe raise dead should still work as its just a flesh injury and the head is still attached
4)butchers behead a pig because they use a specialized implement and set the pig up in the ideal conditions for it
5)coup de grace is NOT a beheading, it is simply a killing blow to a vital point.
seriously have any of you guys actually wielded a longsword? Go ask your butcher for a pigs neck (they'll have it if they're a real butcher) and take to it with a sharpened longsword... I will give $100 to anyone who can do it in a single slice with the neck laying on the ground.
and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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You phail.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Azarius wrote: cite the sources wherre a roman could behead a person in a matter of seconds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10577082Azarius wrote: seriously have any of you guys actually wielded a longsword? Yes Azarius wrote: and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it. I'm not, that's why my High end Cleric and Wizard both have a dragon Azarius wrote: and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it. Comments like this wont endear you to your fellow players and DMs alike.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Azarius wrote: 2)if 30 str could ignore armor then there'd be a game mechanic that ignored armor at 30str and above That's a failure at rationalising. If you are arguing that,then surely there would be one for removing the head. Oh, and so you know, there is a mechanic for breaking armour in that manner, it just wasn't included in NWN. Azarius wrote: 3)special forces don't sever the spinal column, until that is severed I believe raise dead should still work as its just a flesh injury and the head is still attached Raise Dead states they must be in one piece, so to add weight to your argument, their head must be completely off otherwise Raise Dead will still work. Azarius wrote: and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it. Useless? You obviously haven't fought a well-built one
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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what comment wont endear me? All I have done is raise valid points.
Can we at least please get clear DM guidelines on beheading as I can see it no-where in the rules and would like it clarified if I am forced to abide by these rules?
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Azarius wrote: and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it. Be constructive in your argument, don't be offensive.
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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Metalien wrote: Azarius wrote: and if you don't want to take points in spot don't bitch about shadowdancers... that argument is utterly rediculous. SD's are USELESS in pvp because of the existance of healpots... so their only use is healkit and raise dead from hiding.. so let them have it. Be constructive in your argument, don't be offensive. what is so terrible about that comment? I just don't agree with nulling an entire classes place in pvp simply for the convenience of those who don't want to take advantage of the ready made mechanical counter. Also.. looked at the bbc link and there is a sword thrust through the spine, there is a gladiator being dispatched with a quick hammer blow to the skull but NO beheading.
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uber_geek
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
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Thanks for the quick responses everyone.
What Selvec Darkon said echoed my feelings at the time. It seemed very poor RP, they definitely did not ask me or a DM about it. However i hate 'ignoring' things in RP, like ignoring the fact that my head was severed from my body. I didn't like that his actions gave me little choice about it - my only option is to ignore it. I was raised via a scroll 5 minutes after the battle ended, so, does that mean i'm technically still dead and without a head?
As Azarius suggested, the drow did go around to all the corpses very quickly and did: *decapitates*, *decapitates*, *decapitates*, etc, severing about 8 heads from their bodies in 15 seconds. This also seemed like very poor RP to me.
I understand the RP mechanics now of how raise vs. resurrection works, but, it seems like for big PvP battles there should be a better guideline than 'you should decapitate people if you don't want them being raised right away'. In fact, this is exactly what happened in this particular battle, the forces of good seemed to initially take out the drow, did NOT decapitate them, and celebrated a minor victory. The drow seemed to all get raised by a shadowdancer, there was a moment of confusion, and then the tide turned for the freshly raised drow, and they killed everyone.
So, because a triadic knight or druid didn't go around saying *decapitates*, *decapitates*, *decapitates*, and sever the heads of half a dozen drow in 15 seconds.... the drow played that card and won? Totally ridiculous. Are we all really going to start decapitating people after a PvP? If this is a trend i think it should stop, and we should get some better guidelines to prevent raising via scrolls mid-battle, if that's something we want to prevent.
Cheers,
Uber.
Last edited by uber_geek on Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:22 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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It's not nulling the class in PvP as a well built shadowdancer will take down most things, with ease.
That's just the slideshow regarding the BBC link, check through the archives or Google for info on that dig, 90%(?) of the Skeletons uncovered were beheaded.
When the DMs say something is final, like it or not, it's final. It's a sucky thing, I don't deny that but it's a simple cure for a frustrating problem, and simple cures are often the best kind.
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Mathias of Constantinople
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: Québec
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uber_geek wrote: As Azarius suggested, the drow did go around to all the corpses very quickly and did: *decapitates*, *decapitates*, *decapitates*, etc, severing about 8 heads from their bodies in 15 seconds. This also seemed like very poor RP to me. I must admit that this happened because of an earlier event. In the underdark battle, it wasn't clear who was decapitated and who wasn't, so this was the best way to make it clear for everyone who was decapitated. Was intended as a helpful thing, but clearly there were problems that I for one didn't forsee. _________________
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Goblin
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
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Post mortem decapitation at least appears to have been common throughout history, and it always seemed to drive the wedge between one cruel nation and the other. In an impartial way, I can see such rumors of Drow discourtesy to the dead, if kept IC, would be very good for the RP outlining whatever reason this Drow group has - and as a just reason for their potential slayers if any should arise.
From an OOC standpoint it is just that though, discourteous. And naturally from such discourtesy comes that same wedge as mentioned above, where one group of people can no longer suffer another; because it really must be offensive to have your character essentially mutilated without haven been asked, nor having given any permission.
My 2c.
_________________
"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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Metalien wrote: It's not nulling the class in PvP as a well built shadowdancer will take down most things, with ease.
That's just the slideshow regarding the BBC link, check through the archives or Google for info on that dig, 90%(?) of the Skeletons uncovered were beheaded.
When the DMs say something is final, like it or not, it's final. It's a sucky thing, I don't deny that but it's a simple cure for a frustrating problem, and simple cures are often the best kind. And if the DM's say it that's fine.. but I don't think its too much to ask for the DMs to state some guidelines for the timeframe and conditions regarding beheading. Also a shadow dancer won't kill anything, ever because it gets 3 attacks per round max and drinking a potion nullifies much more damage than the SD can deal out. Also all you have to do to counter a shadow dancer is y'know... run away 
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Vaylek
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
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uber_geek wrote: Thanks for the quick responses everyone.
What Selvec Darkon said echoed my feelings at the time. It seemed very poor RP, they definitely did not ask me or a DM about it. However i hate 'ignoring' things in RP, like ignoring the fact that my head was severed from my body. I didn't like that Jarl'axle's actions gave me little choice about it - my only option is to ignore it. I was raised via a scroll 5 minutes after the battle ended, so, does that mean i'm technically still dead and without a head?
As Azarius suggested, the drow did go around to all the corpses very quickly and did: *decapitates*, *decapitates*, *decapitates*, etc, severing about 8 heads from their bodies in 15 seconds. This also seemed like very poor RP to me.
Yeah, it is. You don't have to go along with it if you don't want to, as well. If someone's being a lazy RPer and typing the minimum amount for a purely mechanical reason (i.e. countering raise dead) then just say you don't want your character decapitated, or ignore their emote (if you don't want to break RP with the dreaded //...). Its a rule that you ask permission from the player before decapitating/maiming/torturing their character, so if they don't do that, they're not observing the rule. Unless this rule's been changed?
_________________
Vaylek - The Worst Guy
Pu Liu - Descendant of the Great River Dragon
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Azarius wrote: all you have to do to counter a shadow dancer is y'know... run away Or build a good Necromancer with a high DC wail 
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Vaylek
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Azarius wrote: Also a shadow dancer won't kill anything, ever because it gets 3 attacks per round max and drinking a potion nullifies much more damage than the SD can deal out. Also all you have to do to counter a shadow dancer is y'know... run away Some shadowdancers have dev crit
_________________
Vaylek - The Worst Guy
Pu Liu - Descendant of the Great River Dragon
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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I IC ignore Decapitation not working with raise dead because it will be skiped over mid PVP when they spam raise on thier friends, and stoping to OOC fight about whos head is off middle battle then trying to take screen shots, bugging DMs and all that crap is not worth as much drama and OOC problems as it is to just bitch in party about how gay it is.
and for people who think well ok ignore it in mid PVP but after PVP then treat it as IC, well at that point Decapitation is useless and is only offen ment as a way to balance a lame thing in PVP.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Gers
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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I personally see nothing wrong with decapitating someone, so long as it's being done mid-battle to prevent people from running around in sanctuary with raise scrolls, keeping the battle going on forever (I personally consider that an exploit of GS, though it's not technically against the rules). However, do keep in mind that a cleric casting a ressurection spell *will* bring a "decapitated" person back to life.
_________________  Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Azarius
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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Vaylek wrote: Azarius wrote: Also a shadow dancer won't kill anything, ever because it gets 3 attacks per round max and drinking a potion nullifies much more damage than the SD can deal out. Also all you have to do to counter a shadow dancer is y'know... run away Some shadowdancers have dev crit pretty sure running away counters that too. Or y'know.. spot *gasp*
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Gers wrote: I personally see nothing wrong with decapitating someone, so long as it's being done mid-battle to prevent people from running around in sanctuary with raise scrolls from keeping the battle going on forever (I personally consider that an exploit of GS, though it's not technically against the rules). However, do keep in mind that a cleric casting a ressurection spell *will* bring a "decapitated" person back to life. good in idea but as I said fails when put to the test. *points up to his post* _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Gers
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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It goes on the honor system, Cory. But if I notice someone ignoring it when I know I've decaped them? Yeah, you're getting slapped for ignoring RP.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Janus
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
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Well this is a rabbit hole of a thing. There clearly needs to be a dm ruling on this.
I mean, if we can rationalize an instantanious decapitation preventing raise dead, naturally a Hellball will render all corpses vaporized, and anyone killed by it vaporized, to the point of needing a true rez.
Also there's going to be the problem of people flat out ignoring these things, and people abusing them. Insta behead with a bludgeoning weapon FTW, but thats okay, i took out my pretend , didn't bother to actually buy it, mundane rp dagger, so its cool.
I personally feel that without mechanical backing, behead widget, highly destructive spells setting a flag, that raise dead and ressurection check for, it's going to be a cluster...uh... a maelstrom, of bad blood.
Player controlled Arbitration + PvP = bad juju
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Roppi
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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Im a proponent of wysiwyg. *decapitates* in 5 secs is just as bad as a raise in half a round (3 secs).
In my personal opinion, the problem is raise + heal pots coupled with silly things like GS.
Instead of a rule like "decapitates = no raise" Something should instead be done to either raise dead or heal potions. Adding another ooc rule is just an inelegant solution to a problem.
Its as bad as the light = no hips rule. Its best to leave things to mechanics. You're (DM team) better off making a rule where raise isnt allowed in pvp instead of making it such that everyone has to hotkey emote *decapitate*.
And even then you're going to get people arguing "I raised first!" "No! whats your STR check? You *cant* cut off someone's head that fast!" etc etc.
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Metalien
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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I'm with Gers, if you don't like being decaptitated, don't PvP. I don't have a problem with it, it's just one of those things in a PvP scrap. Gers PC lopped off Oskar's noggin just recently as it happens
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Gers wrote: It goes on the honor system, Cory. But if I notice someone ignoring it when I know I've decaped them? Yeah, you're getting slapped for ignoring RP. your a DM you have that power, we dont. as Ron pointed out in a shout last night we had I think it was 120ish people on total we also had 2-3 DM on client side that about 1DM per 40 players they cant be everywhere to smite people. and like I said us all stoping mid fight to fight about whos head is cut fails, its all fine and good if a DM is baby sitting but not all PVP has one, also the person might be out of range,darkness or just misses it then its just a steaming pile of drama if they just changed raisescrolls to 100k each or somecheck that if you were raised and just killed from PVP you cant use a heal pot for 5min. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Or how about this, you act fairly and if you know that your character was decapitated then don't get up and start fighting even if a raise dead scroll is used on you.
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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The Great Equalizer wrote: Or how about this, you act fairly and if you know that your character was decapitated then don't get up even if a raise dead scroll is used on you. other then someone sees you standing up and goes to attack you wasting attacks as someone who is alive dev crits you in the back. the only easy no drama/OOC problem fix is to change raisedead scrolls, no amount of talk will change that fact. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
Last edited by corypx on Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:50 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Gers
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Come to think of it, we do have a raise and heal pot fix comming in down the line. I'm not exactly sure when, but we've decided what will be done. And, it will negate the need for emoting decapitations in PvP, I'm pretty sure.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Gers wrote: Come to think of it, we do have a raise and heal pot fix comming in down the line. I'm not exactly sure when, but we've decided what will be done. And, it will negate the need for emoting decapitations in PvP, I'm pretty sure. and that will fix everything, because it wont be he said,she said, it will be NWN locked in your dead no raisescroll. any hints on to what the planed changes will do? I ask mostly for the raisedead because if thats geting changed to be less lame might be no point in trying to push for a raisedead potion for Skeletor. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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The Great Equalizer
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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corypx wrote: the only easy no drama/OOC problem fix is to change raisedead scrolls, no amount of talk will change that fact. Actually the easiest way is if people just acted decently, didn't make a big deal out of things and followed RP instead of just doing as they please to maximize some outcome that they want. People always seem to complain and have OOC drama, mechanical changes do less to fix that then maturity.
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Peeves
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 14:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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corypx wrote: Gers wrote: Come to think of it, we do have a raise and heal pot fix comming in down the line. I'm not exactly sure when, but we've decided what will be done. And, it will negate the need for emoting decapitations in PvP, I'm pretty sure. and that will fix everything, because it wont be he said,she said, it will be NWN locked in your dead no raisescroll. any hints on to what the planed changes will do? I ask mostly for the raisedead because if thats geting changed to be less lame might be no point in trying to push for a raisedead potion for Skeletor. It will fix things.
_________________
Persephone Ashallin - Persistant Salandran
Vrok - Cudgel?
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uber_geek
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 15:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
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corypx wrote: Gers wrote: It goes on the honor system, Cory. But if I notice someone ignoring it when I know I've decaped them? Yeah, you're getting slapped for ignoring RP. your a DM you have that power, we dont. as Ron pointed out in a shout last night we had I think it was 120ish people on total we also had 2-3 DM on client side that about 1DM per 40 players they cant be everywhere to smite people. and like I said us all stoping mid fight to fight about whos head is cut fails, its all fine and good if a DM is baby sitting but not all PVP has one, also the person might be out of range,darkness or just misses it then its just a steaming pile of drama if they just changed raisescrolls to 100k each or somecheck that if you were raised and just killed from PVP you cant use a heal pot for 5min. i like the spirit of the idea 'if you were just killed from PvP you can't use a heal pot for 5 min'. what might be simpler to implement game-mechanics wise is reducing all your stats to 3 for 5 minutes if you were killed by another player, and raised with a raise scroll or spell. the lowering of stats should not be able to be fixed by a restoration spell. this would: 1. give anyone killed in PvP a cool-off period, so they can't instantly rejoin the battle, 2. thus removing the need for players to go around with *decapitates* hot key'ed, and that kind of silliness. 3. also remove all the poor RP shenanigans and arguments that are sure to follow a PvP where people are decapitated (that corypx and others brought up). 3. it would encumber them and give them other effects realistic of just having been brought back from the dead via a less powerful spell. 4. because of that encumbrance, dragging a body around would be at a more realistic speed. 5. make clerics with resurrection spells memorized the only way for people to instantly rejoin a battle, which seems more realistic since it's supposed to be an uber-powerful, cleric only spell. My humble, post-decapitation, opinion. Cheers, Uber.
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762
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 15:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Gers wrote: Come to think of it, we do have a raise and heal pot fix comming in down the line. I'm not exactly sure when, but we've decided what will be done. And, it will negate the need for emoting decapitations in PvP, I'm pretty sure. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Jul 16 2010, 15:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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By principle, hacking off someone's head is fine. You killed them, after all, nothing stops you from doing whatever you wish with the dead body, in theory. Demanding that you have control over what happens to you, the loser of a fight, at the mercy of your opponent, so you could deny mutilation, decapitation or whatever else, is ridiculous.
But you cannot be hindered from being alive again after the enemy has disappeared. An OOC raise is more than a courtesy for this reason. When you are in a RP scenario that you have gotten yourself into by making a very bad call, such as attacking the guard tower of a settlement, then you might end up being dead or incarcerated for the near future. Or even permanently, it's been said before.
I think dictating that a HipSing Rogue will not be able to revive someone by cutting off his head is iffy. There are Resurrection scrolls in game, as well. And even without these, a mutilated or beheaded character nearly all of the time gets raised by a guy with a Raise Dead scroll shortly after the event that led to his death. Where is the "Cleric needed" clause here? It's either allow it or don't allow it, not create some shady middle ground for the sake of not having the annoyance of enemies repeatedly coming back to life. If they keep standing up, then go and kill whatever is raising them.
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