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RaveN
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 Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 0:08 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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I searched and found this: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44591&hilit=ArrowsAlot of solutions have been made in this thread to a common problem. I myself, never 'run' out persay, but I think it would be less stressful to play an arrowbased class if we were able to either A) have unlimited charged ammo bags (saving 5-6 hotbars) or B) Arrows that stacked higher. As it is right now, I spend about 10 hotbars, and alot of time just staring at my arrow count. I think this would make it more fun for everyone, but if it can't be done for RP reasons or whatever, that always comes first. Thanks.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Estatica
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 1:04 AM |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Location: Australia, GMT +8
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Personally, I find the whole arrow bag thing to be rather silly. Since when could you craft a stack of uber-arrows in a round's worth of time without making them weaker in any way?
I understand that archers need a supply of arrows and that some arrows are hard to come by, but there's no Roleplay/Realism in making a stack of arrows in less than six seconds.
If it were me, I would be suggesting that the making of arrows be limited to certain spots, possibly with a cooldown.
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 1:12 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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So, you'd be in favor of making all of the spell component spells cost reagents and the weapons have durability as well? I agree that RP-wise, collecting arrows should be difficult, but honestly, why should only one class have to go through extraordinary means just to be able to autoattack?
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Janus
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 3:05 AM |
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010
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The Silent Whisper wrote: Personally, I find the whole arrow bag thing to be rather silly. Since when could you craft a stack of uber-arrows in a round's worth of time without making them weaker in any way?
I understand that archers need a supply of arrows and that some arrows are hard to come by, but there's no Roleplay/Realism in making a stack of arrows in less than six seconds.
If it were me, I would be suggesting that the making of arrows be limited to certain spots, possibly with a cooldown. You're Pigeon-holing the concept. You could just buy a bag in shop of ' Ten bundles of arrow X' it's a bag of 10 charges, you don't create the arrows, you just pull them out of the bag that you bought. It saves inventory space and a lot of headache. You can craft a bag by consuming 10x the components
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 3:22 AM |
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Janus wrote:
You're Pigeon-holing the concept.
THATS OUR WORD! _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 3:28 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: why should only one class have to go through extraordinary means just to be able to autoattack? Buy one of the mutlitudes of bows with infinite ammo. Set for life. You want to use special arrows, then upkeep them. That's the archer's game, and especially AA. you get to do more accurate than a buffed melee cleric, more damage than a buffed melee cleric, 6 times a round if rapid shot hasted, at range, and often with enough spot to keep an SD pegged. The downside is you need to stock your special arrows. But again, nothing stops you from grabbing one of the many infinite arrow types. You can't "restock proof" arrows anyways and so this entire discussion is mooy.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 4:04 AM |
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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A good point to note also is that the price to restock arrows with the ammo bag is a lot less then the price to stock arrows from the store. The stores generally charge far to much because of the enchantments on the arrows, and don't take into mind that when you use one arrow, it's gone. The Ammo bag is a very useful piece of equipment for an archer for this very reason. Meaning the store only needs to sell one arrow, instead of multiplying the price by 99 for 99 arrows. However, more charges would be silly, as archers already get a large advantage from attacking from a distance.
If you know what your doing, you can basically make the bag have unlimited arrows anyway in certain areas of Amia.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 4:05 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If you make arrows in your downtime, during RP, RP making hte arrows, etc, you'll always have the arrows you need when you need them.
And yes, bag price is 10% of the store price, roughly.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 4:14 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: If you make arrows in your downtime, during RP, RP making hte arrows, etc, you'll always have the arrows you need when you need them.
And yes, bag price is 10% of the store price, roughly. Good points. I never thought about it that way. (Both posts that is.)
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 4:17 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Unfortunately I don't have a solution for that pesky "it ate my single stored arrow" problem except to make sure that you're always slotting in new arrows for it to autograb.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 5:00 AM |
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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TormakSaber wrote: Unfortunately I don't have a solution for that pesky "it ate my single stored arrow" problem except to make sure that you're always slotting in new arrows for it to autograb. Storage system, yo. Always keep one of each of your "I can't live without these arrows!" arrows in there. _________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Estatica
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 8:36 AM |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Location: Australia, GMT +8
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Needled247 wrote: So, you'd be in favor of making all of the spell component spells cost reagents and the weapons have durability as well? I agree that RP-wise, collecting arrows should be difficult, but honestly, why should only one class have to go through extraordinary means just to be able to autoattack? It wasn't really that. It's just that I don't find it helpful to roleplay at all when, in six seconds from using one arrow, you can make 98 exact clones that aren't weaker in any way, shape or form.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 8:51 AM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I agree that there's not much RP to be had from the IC fact that an archer can shove one arrow into his magic bag, toss in some gold and pull out 99 of them a second later, so I would suggest RPing about something different, rather than making archery even more screwed by the NWN engine than it already is.
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Estatica
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 9:07 AM |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Location: Australia, GMT +8
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Uberuce wrote: I agree that there's not much RP to be had from the IC fact that an archer can shove one arrow into his magic bag, toss in some gold and pull out 99 of them a second later, so I would suggest RPing about something different, rather than making archery even more screwed by the NWN engine than it already is. What's this "Magic Bag" nonsense? Just sounds like a fancy term for having a duplication machine in your pocket that's widely available for under a level ten's usual earnings from a loot run. Don't get me wrong - my second character was an rogue archer, and I loved that little bag to death. I just think that there might be a better way for an archer to restock their arrows than shoving one arrow into their duplication machine for nintey-nine of the exact same arrow to pop out.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 9:15 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It's a tool for facilitation, and is what you make of it. If all you make of it is that it's a magic bag where you dump in glld and get arrows, your cheating yourself and everyone around you of roleplay.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 16:40 PM |
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I always RP'ed certain arrows as being made out of particularly rare items that could only be duplicated by having an existing example to copy from because the vessel being the arrow has a specific way of being bound and made to hold the potential type of magic thats intuitive to the Arcane Archers oral tradition.
Ergo these arrows can only be crafted in quantity by Arcane Archers at great cost because of the Oral Tradition passed between AA's.
Mind when i was hunting I just used the bags to restock. I can only RP the same thing over and over again when i use six arrows per round. In 100 combat rounds (ten turns) I use 600 arrows you can see the issue.
Does this topic really serve a purpose anymore btw, or can i lock it?
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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colanah
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 16:52 PM |
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Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Lost In Thought
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The difficulty with using the banks is that you only have 20 slots to store things and I carry non-AA arrows that number closer to 40 types with various affects. (no two are the same btw)
Recently in a discussion ICly with an AA, they showed well over 20 different types of AA arrows so one solution could be to increase the amount of slots you get at a bank for storing things.
Frankly if you keep arrow backups in the banks, that's all of your space in one deposit!
10% of the store cost is lovely but I've got arrows in my inventory that cost more than $20k to make per stack. AAs usually have arrows that cost more. I rather think they have enough of a cost/replication handicap as it stands with the ammo bags.
I can agree with Chris, the bags are wonderful if RPed as being a bag filled with arrow crafting components to be opened and used at leisure. Had some wonderful RP around teaching new players/characters how to make more arrows that way. >.> Though somedays you just want to hit it and quit it on a stack and keep running.
Still for the OP's question, more bank slots perhaps for storage. I think 99 is the stacking limit on arrows, not sure.
_________________
GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy."
P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?"
*dice roll for chart*
GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship."
P1 "...so new character you say?"
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 18:30 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Before it's locked.. I agree that arrow management is the AA's game, like Tormak said. I also agree that if you buy multiple magical bags, you can hardly ever have a problem even at 6 arrows/round. But why have 4 magical bags with 2 charges, when you can just have one with 10 or something? Maybe it could cost -alot- more to buy? It would save hotbar slots as well as keep the integrity of the AA class managing arrows intact, and I don't see how it would effect too much else. Unless the point flew by my head, for which I apologize if it did.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 19:22 PM |
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I know where you are coming from, I have an AA with three Ammo Bags. Point is that he's always carrying 10 stacks of the arrows he is using and his inventory is still tidier than my melee characters most of whom have 4 - 5 different gear sets, and many other various items. Once you hit thirty you only need one Ammo Bag, if you are grinding alot thats your option to do that.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 20:25 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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MoshingChris wrote: I know where you are coming from, I have an AA with three Ammo Bags. Point is that he's always carrying 10 stacks of the arrows he is using and his inventory is still tidier than my melee characters most of whom have 4 - 5 different gear sets, and many other various items. Once you hit thirty you only need one Ammo Bag, if you are grinding alot thats your option to do that. I use at least 6 different arrows at any given time, and that would be alot of random inventory space. I mean, I see how you can line it up to shoot a certain way, but I personally find it easier to refresh stacks as I go. I think it would just save inventory space and hotbar slots really.. that's why I'm asking. (And ultimately lower the item count for all archers maybe)
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Janus
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 20:57 PM |
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010
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I'm kinda new here so what in the world is this magic bag you are talking about?
How would the bag of 20 of this be any cheaper than buying 20 of the stack when you can manually set the price of an object? I am very confused.
I was talking from the perspective of a ranger....
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 22:17 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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There is an item in the module that turns any arrow into 99 of the same one and charges, as Tormak says 10% of the vendor price. It also makes the item flagged as stolen to prevent people from profiting from the system.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 22:49 PM |
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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There are as many ways to maintain your arrow supply as there are players with archer character concepts. There are several concepts that remain the same throughout all the methods, though. Keep more than one stack of each in your inventory (the exact number varies according to taste), keep everything organized (hard to tell how many you have if you can't find them) and pay attention to what your doing.
My AA has 6 bags, keeps two stacks of all her arrows and I keep my inventory open while I'm fighting with her. One eye on the action, one on the amount of arrows left. When my first stack gets low, I switch out for the second and restock when the fighting stops. If I run through almost 198 arrows and the fight is still going on, I should probably be running away anyways.
As for the restocking. I RP it much the same way as Chris and most of the others. The arrows are just made of special components and the AA uses some special juju to make them magical. I justify using the bag on grinds by having her craft arrows whenever she gets the chance in RP situations. Yet, just like how to manage your arrow inventory, find what works for you and run with it.
_________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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RaveN
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Posted: Wed, Jun 30 2010, 23:37 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Quote: My AA has 6 bags, keeps two stacks of all her arrows and I keep my inventory open while I'm fighting with her. One eye on the action, one on the amount of arrows left. When my first stack gets low, I switch out for the second and restock when the fighting stops. If I run through almost 198 arrows and the fight is still going on, I should probably be running away anyways. That's almost exactly what I do. I personally hotkey every arrow and watch the numbers from my bar. I am not saying it isn't possible, or that it sucks. I'm just offering a suggestion on how I think it could be better. (For everyone, even)
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 4:28 AM |
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Its not better though, thats my point, once an AA has geared itself, it doesn't require a third or fourth gear set.
Yes its a pain in the arse but an AA is throwing down arrows at 60 AB doing 40+ damage hits. Only extremely well built clerics do that kind of damage at that kind of AB. And thats from range.
Having to carry 6+ ammo bags and consistently restock your arrows is the trade off for the AB/Damage/Privledges of the class, just like a Cleric needs to Buff constantly or a Shadowdancer needs to have 10+ mythal slots dedicated to Hide and Move Silently, or a weapon master being reliant on buffer classes to achieve maximum efficiency.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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RaveN
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 7:28 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Quote: Its not better though, thats my point, once an AA has geared itself, it doesn't require a third or fourth gear set. Depends on the type of AA you are, and what gear you have available to you. __ Eh, other classes can get there too. (60 ab + dmg that is) Also, not every AA has that AB. I don't think making an arrow back condensed into one thing instead of 4 different things doing the same thing is really making the class any more difficult, it just makes it more annoying. You're still using the ammo bag either way at the same time (Accomplishing the arrow management idea). It's just a question of how many hotbar slots you're wasting on duplicate items.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 8:23 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: Eh, other classes can get there too. (60 ab + dmg that is) Cleric Paladin For 20 round bursts, at most. That's it. True Strike doesn't count. The AA is runnnig that all day every day with more attacks and with as good or in some cases better damage.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Jes
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 9:44 AM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole
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As someone who's played an AA as a Main for almost four years, I'm going to have to throw this in with the "Leave it as it is" crowd. My first AA constantly had a high item count, to the point where it was annoying. However, I too RP'ed the magic ammo bags as nothing more than a package filled with stuff used to create arrows and created all of my arrows in RP. I think it's a good trade for the kind of power an AA can have. My AA could hit 200-damage crits, averaged about 170. With the dice rolling six times a round, that's a lot of damage if they're favorable to you. And even if they're not, an AA is a damage cannon. Even Ruce agreed at one point (after convincing)!
_________________ Login: The Copper Queen
Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym
Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant
Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] The Voice
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The Peacock
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 11:25 AM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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'greed. no matter what angle you look at it. Koragi's AA can mess you up. And if you are her enemy... You dead.
I am going with leave it alone. Sooky-wingy-sook-sooks.
_________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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ainjyll
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 14:42 PM |
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Needled247 wrote: Quote: Its not better though, thats my point, once an AA has geared itself, it doesn't require a third or fourth gear set. Depends on the type of AA you are, and what gear you have available to you. There's only two types of AA's... damage cannons and broken toys. We also all have the same gear available to all of us. The question really is this, do you know where the right gear for your build is hiding or even what it is that's needed. My AA two gear sets, a SD-hunting set which maxes out her Spot and an everything else set. I think what you're talking about would make a good DC item, perhaps, but not something to toss into the module. _________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Selmak
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 16:08 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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An AA may do more sustained damage, but only if they stay alive. What other classes might lack in sustained damage capability, they make up for with more hitpoints, protection spells, and so on which apparently keep them alive. When you try including a base class in an AA build which has those things, you get a minimal AA with less attacks and less damage, which is basically useless.
The one thing that was sane about the class was that I didn't have to run around the whole island and spend heaps of gold restocking ma arras.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 18:42 PM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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How many AA's do you see single handedly PVPing or PVEing anythig?
Those that do, obviously die. Those that use others as meat shields... Will kill you.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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RaveN
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 19:02 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Lets NOT turn this into a balance thread because my suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with balance. AA's are fine. I think all points have been made, and it may be ready for a lock.
_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Selmak
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 21:28 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Okay well from the technical standpoint, stack maximum sizes can be made larger on a per-item basis. How large is anyone's guess, but the game has no problem with it being 255 (for example). You arrows will even auto-re-stack when you enter the module, to have as many maximum size stacks as possible.
This would be a good change because each stack of arrows is only one item, so with just a few larger stacks, you can have the same amount of ammunition but reduce your number of items in inventory.
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Sat, Jul 03 2010, 17:04 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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AA is good - just tap F5 for rapid shot, point and click. AA arrows are probably a bit too good but meh. Just a shame about regular archers. They don't really have much of anything.
I mean, AA are already king of Ab. Woe-betide an archer who's just an archer, not a cleric or a rogue (who's weapon is really a means of just transferring that juicy SA die).
Anyway - bags are fine. Micromanage your inventory.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Jul 03 2010, 19:00 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Thanks, I now imagine rogue archers throwing gigantic handfuls of D6's at enemies....
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Selmak
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Posted: Sun, Jul 04 2010, 0:04 AM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Even just 3d6 SA three times a round, ten rounds a turn, that's potentially 90 d6's of Sneak Attack per turn. They won't all land, but with a decent AB, most of them will. So, enemies getting peppered with handfuls of D6's is not that far off. 
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Charles1810
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Posted: Thu, Jul 08 2010, 10:01 AM |
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio
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Would it be possible to solve lossing arrows by a simple solution? Amia now have scroll, mythal, gem, heal kit holders. Would it be possible to create a arrow holder of some kind using the job system for fletcher? Would allow largely cleaned inventory not only for the aa, but anyone that uses arrows, bolts, bullets. Plus no longer risk the lose of dc/special/powerful ammo.
_________________
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((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Jul 08 2010, 22:37 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Put one arrow in morgan + sons. Solved.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Jul 08 2010, 22:44 PM |
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: I mean, AA are already king of Ab. Woe-betide an archer who's just an archer, not a cleric or a rogue (who's weapon is really a means of just transferring that juicy SA die).
I've always had a slight issue with the complete disparity between AA arrows and Normal Arrows. Yes most of them are vs but because they are vs further damage attributes can be crafted to them even same damage because vs fire and fire damage stack. Even then the difference is amazing given the AA will do +X more base damage. For instance 2d12 vs Undead compared to 1d8 vs Undead. 1d8 Fire vs 2d10 fire. I understand the logic in making the AA only arrows better than stock arrows but thats more than twice as good. And no I'm not advocating nerfing the AA arrows, but maybe adding some more vs ammunition to encourage non-elven ranged characters.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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RaveN
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 0:02 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Well, alternatively, damage sources can be made up elsewhere, as per the class you play. E.G. Divine Favor. Start giving zen archers AA arrows and they'll do more damage, potentially, have more AC, more spells, similar AB, etc. I think this should be locked. If you want to start a balance discussion, please take it to a different thread, is all I ask.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 0:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Needled247 wrote: Well, alternatively, damage sources can be made up elsewhere, as per the class you play. E.G. Divine Favor. Start giving zen archers AA arrows and they'll do more damage, potentially, have more AC, more spells, similar AB, etc. I think this should be locked. If you want to start a balance discussion, please take it to a different thread, is all I ask. You mean like 19 cleric/2 bard/9 AA? Oh wait.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 0:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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There are 2d6 physical arrows in the module for everyone who is either Druid, Ranger or has points in UMD. There are some nasty bolts in the module for use by everyone too. I think giving the public obtainable 2d6 arrows is not a big leap, especially if it's a way of rewarding to stick to your guns and not multiclass for UMD.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 0:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Why should or would I make an entirely new thread or anyone else make an entirely new thread when theres a thread about arrows already going? I make the decision to lock based on two variables, whether or not a thread has any continuing relevance or whether or not the people in the thread are being polite. The reason I wont lock this is because whilst you say no build/balance chatter please, you threw in your own addendum about build/balance chatter.
To answer that:
I can add it to any other class and make a build that uses AA arrows and has favor etc. I've run a Zen Archer AA monk. A Bard AA, A Cleric AA, A Rogue AA etc etc etc. With the tensers fix and the GMW page AA's can now also be epic spell casters.
My point was that the AA already gets a huge advantage in base damage/ab from every odd level and it nabs specialty arrows that are two or three times better than whats available to the general playerbase meaning the only valid Archer builds on the server are AA's.
So its either nerf AA arrows, which i would definetly consider removing all the on-hit slay arrows via the item removal script anyway, or actually put some semi decent versus arrows for those who don't want to play an Elf or Half Elf but still want to play a stick flinger.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Selmak
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 15:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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I kind of like the idea of seeing new arrows generally available as loot. That way you can't just go out to a shop and buy them over the counter, you have to actually claim them as spoils. Means you don't have to mess about with merchant inventories all that much. It will also make it more fun to trade arrows with other players.
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ainjyll
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 16:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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I'm pretty sure that all the On Hit: Whatever arrows are gone now. I remember giving mine up to a DM forever ago in exchange for some modified arrows that wouldn't cause a script to fire 6 times every round and lag up the server. Also, I don't think it's fair at all to bring up insane AB in a discussion about arrows. It's the AA class that gives that, not the arrows. A person can find the same AB progression in other classes, too. So, basically what it comes down to is damage output. An AA can pump out more damage than a non-AA. I think that's perfectly reasonable, considering the lore behind the class. I do recognize the difference in non-AA arrows and AA arrows, however, and there's definitely a large gap. I think this would be best rectified by making slightly better arrows available to the general populace than by nerfing AA's arrows.
_________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Bravo21
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 16:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee
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Not necissarily.
I have both an AA and rogue and in comparison, when not soloing, the rouge puts out more damage in a single round than the AA. The AA has a better AB, and more attacks, 5 versus 3 for the rogue. I can count on the AA with rapid shot to hit an average of 4 times per round and the rogue 2 times. Using the same arrows, the AA can deal out about 25 -30 damage per hit, while the rogue sticks them for 65 -75 damage per hit. Which means that the rogue is kicking 130 -150 per round while the AA produces a solid 100 - 120 per round. And the rogue out shines the AA even though he is not even max level yet and expects to pick up another 6d6 sneaks. Now this may change slightly with the AA only arrows, but AA's are not the only ones who can dish out ranged damage.
And yes, I know of several players who still have stockpiles of the old server-crashing arrows.
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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.
-Krrja
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 17:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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So what about the Rogue/AA Bravo? Second (perhaps third) most commonly used AA build is the epic dodging AA that nets four attacks/round, epic dodge and 9d6 sneaks? And saying when not soloing is a load of dick btw. My rogue puts out 30s solo and 70+ damage when sneaking? I'm not talking solo here at all.
Edit: You also need to be within 15 feet to sneak from range, my AA hits 40 - 50 damage from the other side of the map, so while your busy positioning your rogue from stealth my AA's already put 200 - 400 damage worth of arrows down range.
Edit 2: Moving this to General Discussion so Disco doesn't get the irrits.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Bravo21
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 18:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee
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Yes, Ironicly I started pondering the implications of a rogue/AA build as I posted.
And no, the reason I mentioned not soloing is because most archers stop using a bow when being mobbed via soloing. In addition, my rogue has no trouble engaging a group as soon as they spawn in and net sneaks right away. The only time it's not immediate is when a tank runs ahead unsupported.
In any case, my observations were only from a damage inflicting point of view, not class versatility. So really, are you trying to debunk my own observational data or make an unrelated point?
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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.
-Krrja
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Fri, Jul 09 2010, 18:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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what archer would switch to melee when being attacked? the fact they are being attacked means they are doing it wrong, they should be running around in circles at least so the other members get free attacks of opp on the mob attacking the archer if they are being attacked
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