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That would work.

For Earth elemental, maybe stonehold, or like stoneskin for the first set of elemental.. then when you finally get elder elemental, it go greater stoneskin

do animal forms still have a time limit on them? None of shifter forms are timed, but the animal forms were like... 1hour/CL... which is ugly for RP that can't afford to have such time restraints when you're in disguise as a wolf in the forest

They do.

Sin4given wrote:

That would work.

For Earth elemental, maybe stonehold, or like stoneskin for the first set of elemental.. then when you finally get elder elemental, it go greater stoneskin

The stone elemental has Stonehold, and the basilisk has stoneskin

Stone elemental? It is a Stone Golem.

Search the forums. There were some great ideas put forward for the elemental forms a year or two back but for the life of me i cant remember the name of the thread.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Sin4given wrote:

That would work.

For Earth elemental, maybe stonehold, or like stoneskin for the first set of elemental.. then when you finally get elder elemental, it go greater stoneskin

The stone elemental has Stonehold, and the basilisk has stoneskin

I know that. Those shifter forms have it, but my chacracter is a Druid.. I am wanting to see if there will be any progress for those 2 sets of forms he will get. I can't go basilisk nor stone golem.

Erm, Baslisk is in the standard shifter set.

TormakSaber wrote:

Erm, Baslisk is in the standard shifter set.

he means his druid with no shifter levels will not get shifter forms.

corypx wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Erm, Baslisk is in the standard shifter set.

he means his druid with no shifter levels will not get shifter forms.

Exactly. Though I do have a shifter, I'm talking of my pure druid

Then you shouldn't be fussed about shifted form improvements. You have everything else, and in return you get mediocre shifting.

I was only curious to know IF anything was being done as I have two characters who can utilize this. I don't care if they change or not, I wouldn't mind if it was, but yes, Druids have alot. Don't take this as me whining os fussing that the wildshape and elemental shape, I am only wanting to know if there was something in store, because due to that shifter sheet, it included them in the page, and I didn't know if there was going to be changes.

TormakSaber wrote:

Then you shouldn't be fussed about shifted form improvements. You have everything else, and in return you get mediocre shifting.

Its not mediocre.

The wildshapes and elementals are pretty mediocre compared to the others, yes. But in return you get 9 levels of spells, epic spells, can still take Dragon shape, and the beefy animal companon as well as the rest of the class feature.

They're less than mediocre, if you ask me. They suck, beyond non-action RP and one other function which I shall not mention. Use wildshape at Epic levels and walk around the forest through the Gnome spawns and you're pretty much dead. That's how weak they are. Elementals are the only shapes that have a slight action RP function.

So true Gunz. Would be nice to have them buffed up just a bit, but eh we got other stuff. Though the earth elemental is nice

I didn't go through the whole thead so this might be wrong but.. at Shifter lvl 11, you don't get Epic Wildshape #2 (Gargoyle, Minotaur, etc) anymore. Usually it's at Shifter lvl 11.

No, now it's 11/13/15/17/19 for the pre epic shapes in order. In return the epic shapes are way better, and wyrmling and illithid/tiger/medusa actually HAVE epic forms.

Very_Svensk wrote:

MY shifterbuild is 5Druid/6Monk/19Shifter (Cheezzeee)

Construct Forms
Stone Golem
mass haste - 5 Rounds, both Servers
Stonehold - 5 Rounds, Server B. On Server A it lasts forever.

Demonflesh Golem
Lesser Spell mantle lasts 5+1/2 Druid + Shifter levels. Working properly, i think?
Greater Spell Breach - Working ...as it should.

Iron Golem
Chain Lightning - Hits like a Caster Level 5 spell. Obviously only counting druid levels.
(unsure about B)

Outsider Forms
Azer Chiftan
Flame weapon - lasts 5Turns
(Both servers)

Rakshasa
SoV - lasts 5Rounds.
Flame Strike - i "Think" it has the apropriate damage. Unsure. Still hits like a wet noodle.
Ice Storm - About the same.
(Both servers)

Death Slaad Lord
Summon Slaad - Summon's a Red slaad, Which lasts 5 Turns.
(Both servers)

Undead Forms
Risen Lord
Stone bones - Doesn't add ANY Ac at all. And lasts 5 Druid turns.
Ghoul touch - Working as intended.
(unsure about B)

Vampire
Negative Energy Burst - Working ...properly? 1d8Damage + 20. (Means that it doesn't calculate Shifterlevels i think. Else it would be 1d8 + 14 (19Shifter levels)
(Unsure about B)

Spectre
Improved invisibility - Lasts 5 turns on B; And i "Think" it lasts 5 Turns on A.
Mass Deafen/Blind - Lasts 5 rounds. Both servers

Greater Wildshape IV(4)
Mindflayer
Psionic Internal Barrier - lasts 5 Rounds, both servers
Illithid Mind blast - Lasts 5 Rounds, both servers.

Medusa
Petrify gaze - lasts 4 ever on mobs. 5 Rounds on PC's
Firebrand - Works as intended, i think. Doing ~14d6 Damage

Dire Tiger
Fear Howl - lasts 5 rounds
Blinding speed - Custom. 10Rounds.(As it should be)

Humanoid Shape
Darkness - 5 Rounds
mage armor - 5 Turns
Melf's acid arrow - Unsure

Lizardfolk whipmaster
Firestorm - ~40Damage, Guessing it has druid + 1/2 Shifter levels.
Sunburst - ~15damage vs undead. blind lasts 5 rounds. "probably" doesn't count Shifter levels.
Nature's balance - Heals for ~30-40hp. Probably only counting Druid levels.

//MORE INCOMING. Just need a break.

Was the short duration fixed?

THe durations are intentionally short I believe so you can't buff a party by switching from shape to shape for hours on end.

And if thats incorrect, its still applicable balance wise.

Epic forms have 3 uses/day.
even if you extended the spells, it would -not- be possible to keep a party buffed with 3d´/day uses.

How about the spell level then? a majority aren't scaled with Shifter levels.

They're supposed to be druid + shifter.

TormakSaber wrote:

They're supposed to be druid + shifter.

urr, i ment druid+shifter. Im just tired and belligerent. (NEW WORD; YAY!)

You mention that the kobolt form diel wields daggers but I did not see this. Was something changed after this post was originally created?

I believe dual-wielding in general didn't work out with shifted forms.

So what's not working? Drider, kobold....? anything else?

Gratz for the job! :mrgreen:

Just Drider and Kobold.

cool, tnx

I just got outsider shape and tried it on on B and a little on A, and here is what I notice

1) Rakshasa form is as always very good

2) The fire dwarf not so good. Its damage output is about the same as skeletor though does have a bit more AB, but defense is considerably weaker which doesnt make up for the few extra AB. The rage, as far as I can tell doesnt work and perhaps that is part of the problem. My recomendation is to perhaps raise the AB a bit more so this is the "hit things well" shape or fix the rage.

3) Slaad: Having a HARD time figuring out a use for this guy. The red slaad summon is neat, but arguable weak for an epic level character. Granted I have not played around much with him so I will reserve judgement.

Thanks for all your hard work I am VERY impressed!

The summon is intended to be weak. It's flavor.

Re: Azer Rage. Have your character sheet open when you use it. IT's not an Amian barb rage, it's a monster ability and functions differently.

The epic Wyrmling rages are self-only but you have to target them every time you use them.

Thanks for the advise I was testing in combat and mised the +3 ab increase.

ANyways here is the comparison
The azure on my character sheet using all of their abilities has 36 AC, 37 AB, 1D10 +12, 1D10 fire, 5 slashing, 541HP's

Risen Lord has 34AC, 30 AB, 1d8 +9 , 1D8 Neg, +4 Physical and using druid flame spel can add 1D4 fire, immune to crit and sneak attacks, and 50% immune to pierce and slashing

I think I need to test this more especially with the taunt points you gave the azure. I was in a party with weapon masters and wizards so I really needed to tank and perhaps that is why it seems weak to me for as soon as I dropped to Azure form I got riped apart pretty fast and was forced to change back to risen lord.

A question on weapon merging. It appears that the the enchantment bonus on a weapon has no effect on your AB, which is ofcourse normal, but wanted to verify this is as intended. Also, I just noticed that the Azure has a keen weapon and the keen weapon I am holding does not stack which is why I missed it. Considering how easy it is to get a keen weapon on Amia it would be nice if it did not stack so the threat range would become 18-20 which i still not as good as a WM who would have 16-20.

The Azer should have a lot more AC than that. It's supposed to be recieving Shield AC in the script to emulate holding a Tower Shield. Doesn't seem to be...

And you can't make 2 Keens stack. It's not possible. The only possibility would be to use the hak and dig inand add more bonus feats to certain forms.

I stripped my shifter naked and looked at the AC for each form. This is with a 10 Druid / 13 Shifter, no AC feats. I subtracted 2 AC from the results to account for the +2 bonus from Tumble.

The log says:

Natural 4
Deflection 3
Dodge 3
Armor 3

Epic Red Wyrm 25
Epic Blue Wyrm 25
Epic Black Wyrm 29
Epic White Wyrm 27
Epic Green Wyrm 29

Epic Harpy 28
Epic Gargoyle 28
Epic Minotaur 25

Basilisk 26
Drider 28
Manticore 28

Drow 28
Lizard 25
Kobold 29

Large Tiger 28
Medusa 29
Mindflayer 26

Risen Lord 23
Vampire 28
Spectre 33

Is this how it should be? AC is still pretty low across the board, even with items equipped. For comparison, a buffed and equipped Spectre (Base Armor Class 3 +4 AC, Base Shield Armor Class 2 +3 AC) gets up to 44 AC. Which is decent, just all other shapes fall short here.

.....thats odd. My forms all have 40-50AC.

Geared up, I mostly hover around 36-40 now. There seems to be some improvement with gaining levels.

xordae wrote:

Geared up, I mostly hover around 36-40 now. There seems to be some improvement with gaining levels.

You start running into problems when someone throws in a fighter level and starts using heavy armor and tower shields however.

I don't think Towershield merge, only small and medium

And only the Bonus AC merges into Shifter forms from armor, afaik. (The +1+2+3+4+5 stuff)

I saw in the azure picture he is holding a shield, mine is not.
Oh and the stats I presented were for a 5 druid 15 shifter 5 barb. Maybe my haks are mesed up or something in the script is messed up??? Infact the rest form AC wise I got is specter at 44.

Quote:

I don't think Towershield merge, only small and medium

And only the Bonus AC merges into Shifter forms from armor, afaik. (The +1+2+3+4+5 stuff)

This does not seem true. I just logged in to confirm earlier shield test and infact base shield AC does shift with you which totally blows my mind!

Just did some more testing and weapons are not merging into the unarmed shapes. At least not for me.

Send a PM to Terra. He's posted in the topic.

I've seen weapons merging work with unarmed forms personally. What form didn't work for you?

Dead wrote:

So what's not working? Drider, kobold....? anything else?

Gratz for the job! :mrgreen:

TormakSaber wrote:

Just Drider and Kobold.

Is there any chance someone could clarifiy the status of the Kobold Commando, what changes have actually been implemented for both the standard and improved form? For example the improved form mentioned dual wielding daggers, since the dual wield apparently doesnt work, does the kobold now use a single dagger in both standard and improved or is a shortsword still its weapon?

When I use unarmed shapes, weapon bonuses don't show up on my character sheet, but I do still deal extra elemental damage.
Also, can I have some clarification; how does this shield merge thing work, does it count the shield's physical bonus (+1 for small, +2 for large etc.) or it's magical Shield AC Bonus?
I can never get past 40 AC without buffs.

If you read all nine pages you will find this

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Shifterfix

Which sums up everything. Duel wielding didnt work so it was taken out.

As for the shield thing I can tell you for sure it merges BOTH the physical plus the enchantment. It is easy to test get a plus 1 small shield and a plus 1 tower and then shift into a form.

All creature weapon merging works.

IN regards to creature weapons off all sorts they only report the property Monster Damage on their sheets.

I'm just nitpicking here, but would it be possible to apply weapon bonuses as buffs on the character instead of on the creature weapon?
Probably not.

I want to know why you'd ask this.

so was just fighting some monsers in abyss that casted Massheal

Massheal
" All allies within the area of effect are restored to full hit points. Healing spells have a reverse effect on undead, harming instead of healing them (undead are reduced to 1d4 hit points with this spell). "

I was in undead form and so I faild it and instead of geting droped for 1d4 HP I was one shot because I was hit for 886, 300 over my total HP.

so your adding increased positive damage to undead forms broke the spell to its one shoting undead form on failed rolls when its not ment to.

Well, then don't fail your fortitude save against a Heal spell or don't shift to undead in an area where Heal spells get cast. It was your decision to focus on undead to the exclusion of all others.

do all the other undead monsters on the server get one shot with heal spells when failing, no. do the living get one shot on failing harms throw, no.

why are undead forms more undead then undead?

A Shifter is never late.

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