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[ 27 posts ] |
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The1Kobra
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 Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 12:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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I was wondering, would use of negative energy spells cause a paladin to risk falling?
I know that spells with the 'evil' descriptor would be out directly, and spells like create undead would also be a no-no for a paladin. But there were some that were in the 'iffy' territory. I know mileage may vary between paladins of different orders, but the spells I were thinking of were:
Negative Energy Burst(Negative), Finger of Death(Death), Horrid Wilting(Death), Harm, and the inflict wounds line of spells(Negative), Slay Living(Death, Negative), Energy Drain(Negative).
Would use of these, any or all, cause a paladin to risk falling? I can think of some arguments for or against, but I'd like some other opinions on the matter.
Also, on a related note, would a paladin using a weapon with negative energy damage attached risk falling as well?
_________________ I play: 
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 12:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Horrid Wilting isn't death, it's sucking out the moisture from living things.
Negative Energy is itself a neutral entity and you will probably not get in trouble for using it on a cosmic level, depending on what deity you worship. Probably. Maybe. Do you want to gamble with your Divine Blessing in such a manner? From other characters is an entirely different story, of course.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 12:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Go ask some of the Kellies. They have a nice book ingame about that stuff.
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Dieu_Le_Fera
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 12:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia
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AFAIK a paladin using negative energy is a big No-No... it's a kin to necromancy. I am sure if the Eternal Order saw a Paladin using a weapon with negative energy there would be quite a reckoning.
_________________  "It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 13:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Again, Negative Energy 9and Positive Energy) are, despite their uses, 100% neutral entities. What happens between character sis IC and should stay that way. As I said in the DM topic, do what your PC will and let us handle the deities.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Silvarus
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 13:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Entirely in character speaking: Gagis would probably recommend death magic over evocation since being instantly magically slain is far less painful than being slowly burned alive by fireballs. His view of necromantic spells differs slightly from that of the rest of the Order.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 14:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Negative energy weapons are fine with the Kellies I think, I remember my Paladin Tauronemhet running with Richard and Vanora with a Neg energy scimitar.
Mind that may have changed since then.
That said the Kellies wont allow control undead whilst the the church of Osiris will (the clerics do of the house of Osiris will control undead to clean undead out of tombs etc since Osiris has complete control over all undead). Both will kill you for raising undead obviously and conversely Osirants find Horrid Wilting a totally offensive spell, since as Tormak said it sucks the moisture out of you and dying of thirst is a terror weapon in Mulhorand aswell as a device of torture and evil.
Just an example of different strokes for different blokes.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Dieu_Le_Fera
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 15:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote: Negative energy weapons are fine with the Kellies I think, I remember my Paladin Tauronemhet running with Richard and Vanora with a Neg energy scimitar. You sure? Sometime ago I remember when the Kelemvorites were running around Winya on a witchhunt for Arcane Archers who imbued their arrows with negative energy... just reminded me of this. _________________ "It is by the holy beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning, it is by Java alone that I set my mind in motion."
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 15:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Characters have different thoughts and ideas, even worshippers of the same deity. See: Kelemvorite Topic.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 15:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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If i recall those imbued arrows have drain effects on them, perhaps thats it?
Not that it matters different strokes for different blokes. My Pally will assualt you for multiple uses of Wiltings, whilst others wont.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 17:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Either way.
Negative Energy, along with Positive Energy, are both just that. Energy. Different forms and origins, but neither is good nor evil.
How your character percieves these two directly opposed energies, however, is completely up to the character.
Does this thread need to exist longer?
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Azure_Lord
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Posted: Sun, May 02 2010, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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Undead use negative energy to continue existing.
Undead absorb the energy of life all around them, and thus around them it is usually cold. (This is from a D&D supplement, 3.5, Libris Mortis). Positive Energy is life, and Negative Energy is death or the draining of life.
All in all, it's your view point that matters.
Are all Undead evil? No. (Don't argue, they aren't. [Baelnorns will slap you if you argue! Srinshee to name a famous one.])
The act of animating undead, is it evil? It varies on view point, once again!
So as usual, view point and/or Religion will dictate this!
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Wyjyn
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Posted: Mon, May 03 2010, 0:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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To be fair, Baelnorns are quite a bit more complicated though. Elves tend towards Chaotic Good and while Baelnorns may not be evil overall, it wouldnt suprise me if their innate undead status is. Greater good type of thing, to my mind.
_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, May 03 2010, 1:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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It seems one of those things that could be debated for paragraphs on end.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, May 03 2010, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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IMHO, because of what they are Baelnorn shoulda been classified under Deathless, NOT Undead.
That, however is just me.
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Galenson
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Posted: Mon, May 03 2010, 7:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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Simple fix: Make sure your Paladin's worshipping Ilmater, declare the plea of rest and you can do whatever the hell you want for 10 days.
Act responsibly though!
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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Lutra
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Posted: Tue, May 04 2010, 21:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Hehe...people believe that the EO is the most strict faction regarding necromancy. The Triunity of Necromancy what the Eternal Order made to use it as a guideline is not necessary acceptable for a paladin. I would rather say that some paladin may have stricter codes regarding necromancy then the EO. The difference is the way how they execute their duties.
Yaston for example is definitely stricter then the Eternal Order in many way. The character who is using finger (which is considered as grey necromancy in the EO book) in front of him can end up as a pile of sausage. He would not burn, torture or anything like that. He will give you quick death.
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, May 04 2010, 22:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I love the combination of Black & Grey Morality in this game.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Halecta
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Posted: Tue, May 04 2010, 23:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Yep, negative energy is one of the 6 elements of creation:
Fire
Water
Air
Earth
Posative
Negative
Neither are good or evil, just energy
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Lutra
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Posted: Tue, May 04 2010, 23:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Yurell wrote: I love the combination of Black & Grey Morality in this game. *shrugs* if you compare it with modern day philosophy then you may be right.
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, May 04 2010, 23:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Nope, in comparison with High Fantasy, and other texts where the good guys are an unstained White and the sun shines out of their arses. Actually having a sense of grim reality to the game makes it all the more fun.
It wasn't an insult at all, by the way, just a comment. I really do love it.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 0:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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I can tell you I see Kelemvorites punish (not violently) people who use lower level negative energy spells. There was a huge argument in the square about this not long ago. I have to assume they frown on the use of weapons that are powered by the same energy. Something to do with it being against Kelemvors laws. That said negative energy is inherently not evil, but it ain't good either and since it is capable of most of nastiest spells and types of magic, and is most frequently wielded by evil people, it is usually considered evil.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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Gunz
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 2:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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To be fair, positive energy can be just as destructive as negative energy. There's nothing worse about negative energy than positive energy, it's just the look and the connotations of the word itself, I believe. Negative, has it's obvious connotations of, well, negativity. And, of course, the deep red color which is the color of "Evil", demons, devils, blood, gore, etc. It's just the way certain people look at it and, in fact, how people are -trained- to look at it by society.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Azure_Lord
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 2:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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Regardless, it's not a Hit Or Miss subject, there is a lot of gray. And, you'll never find a definite 'correct' answer. As it is based upon your views.
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 2:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: To be fair, positive energy can be just as destructive as negative energy. There's nothing worse about negative energy than positive energy, it's just the look and the connotations of the word itself, I believe. Negative, has it's obvious connotations of, well, negativity. And, of course, the deep red color which is the color of "Evil", demons, devils, blood, gore, etc. It's just the way certain people look at it and, in fact, how people are -trained- to look at it by society. There is also the whole association of negative energy with creating and fueling undead and positive energy harming them, coupled with the common belief, however wrong or right it is, that all undead are evil.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 2:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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DolphinRacer wrote: o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: To be fair, positive energy can be just as destructive as negative energy. There's nothing worse about negative energy than positive energy, it's just the look and the connotations of the word itself, I believe. Negative, has it's obvious connotations of, well, negativity. And, of course, the deep red color which is the color of "Evil", demons, devils, blood, gore, etc. It's just the way certain people look at it and, in fact, how people are -trained- to look at it by society. There is also the whole association of negative energy with creating and fueling undead and positive energy harming them, coupled with the common belief, however wrong or right it is, that all undead are evil. In another topic, Iron and I (amongst others) debated about whether the act of creating undead is evil. We finished with an agreement to disagree, I believe, each understanding the other's stance and approach. I do remember it was quite enjoyable, though.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, May 05 2010, 5:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Creating Undead is Evil, it is in the spell's descriptors. It is not up for debate. Negative energy itself is not evil, but it is often used for evil things.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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