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Finally! I love what has been done with the spell! I've been asking about this for years!

Could a similar implementation be used for divine power as well meaning no extra APR at highest BAB? It'd be nice to balance out clerics a little more. Speaking of clerics, are the healing and inflict spells still on the list to be souped up?

Can this also be listed on the list of changed spells?

The spell now simply "turns" you into an average level warrior without the feats, and let you choose armor, shield and sword and so on? Or still a polymorph with loss of item bonuses?

Gravemaskin wrote:

The spell now simply "turns" you into an average level warrior without the feats, and let you choose armor, shield and sword and so on? Or still a polymorph with loss of item bonuses?

You no longer polymorph. As such, you keep item bonus stuff, armour, weapons, shield, etc. Also you can use items too now. But of course, it is impossible to cast any spells when in Tenser's Transmutation.

AlphaWaves wrote:

Gravemaskin wrote:

The spell now simply "turns" you into an average level warrior without the feats, and let you choose armor, shield and sword and so on? Or still a polymorph with loss of item bonuses?

You no longer polymorph. As such, you keep item bonus stuff, armour, weapons, shield, etc. Also you can use items too now. But of course, it is impossible to cast any spells when in Tenser's Transmutation.

Ooooh.. That's so not going to last long until someone abuses it in a build.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Ooooh.. That's so not going to last long until someone abuses it in a build.

Not really, my combat log says the AB bonus you gain counts towards the maximum AB cap. Now its more like the arcane version of divine power.

Maybe this'll make it possible to have a semi-viable non-bard spellsword.

But But...the polymorph was awesome.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

But But...the polymorph was awesome.

...Looked awesome, maybe(especially if you had the Undead Redux override), but casting a spell and having it screw up your spells and put you in outright a potentially weaker form...?

Not awesome.

It's really cool now. And since it's non-polymorph, there's an extra element of thinking and planning added to it. In the old way, you could un-shift at any time and be back in your regular magie form, spells and all. Well now, you have to wait the whole duration for the spellfailure to wear off. So yeah, you get some tasty bonuses while under its effects, but if #&%@ hits the fan and you start getting pounded during it, you're pretty much screwed until the duration runs out. When you cast, you're committing to not casting over the next X rounds. You have to really think about it before you use.

I love it.

Dark Immolation wrote:

It's really cool now. And since it's non-polymorph, there's an extra element of thinking and planning added to it. In the old way, you could un-shift at any time and be back in your regular magie form, spells and all. Well now, you have to wait the whole duration for the spellfailure to wear off. So yeah, you get some tasty bonuses while under its effects, but if #&%@ hits the fan and you start getting pounded during it, you're pretty much screwed until the duration runs out. When you cast, you're committing to not casting over the next X rounds. You have to really think about it before you use.

This is what I've found. It's a double edged sword so you really need to use your noodle! It's great for some stuff, but can be the absolute worst thing you can do if used thoughtlessly.

It's opened a few new avenues for my mage, and has made me really think. It breaks the monotony big time.

I hated the look of the polymorph, so for me it's all great!

Yurell wrote:

Can this also be listed on the list of changed spells?

Yes, post the addition here and I'll paste it into the spells post.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

But But...the polymorph was awesome.

Sure it was awesome!

If, of course, awesome meant using up 15 spell slots just to lay some smackdown on something.... I can think of many better ways to use 15 spells, and mostly higher level than Tenser's at that. Just doesn't seem like a fair trade to me.

So err...divine power?

Yep, the reason i love it is because a totally worthless spell was taken and made darn useful.

Also, I recall evocation was on the cards to get suped up, well...ideas were put forward. Any word on that?

+1d6 temporary HP/caster level,
+4 natural armor bonus to AC
+2d4 Strength
+2d4 Dexterit
+1 BAB/ 2 caster levels
(which may give the character an extra attack),
a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves,
and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons.
100% Spell Failure

This is just me thinking, and correct me if I'm just being the jealous mage I am though, but could, and should the spell be modified to where it acts slightly different when cast from a scroll?

When cast by a mage, it puts them relatively on par with a meleer of their same class level for a few rounds, which is fine and is the whole point of the spell. But if one of Amia's many ftr/wm/1rog with UMD uses it from a scroll, it kinda becomes Bardsong+Magebuffs To-Go©. Especially since the 100% spell failure has absolutely no detrimental effect on a pure melee build. Scribed Tenser's is cast at lv 11 at base, and as such gives umd-ho's just a lil too much of the good stuff, IMO.

I can get behind that. Also, is there a way for it to disable the ability to cast epic spells?

DustSpray101 wrote:

I can get behind that. Also, is there a way for it to disable the ability to cast epic spells?

I agree with the scroll thing (although I've not tested it), but why should it stop Epic Spells? Nothing else does AFAIK (that is, nothing else that leaves the ability to use other feats), not even polymorphing them

When cast by a mage, it does not put them on par for a few rounds, but more like all day. Mages can memorise them a couple times and extended. So a wiz/sorc running all day with insane AB and casting spells is a tad silly, because then you play cleric. :wink:

Well, they can't cast spells with Tenser's running, so...

That was my point. Insane AB boost + spells = no.

And who was that to? I can't find anyone saying it should allow spells.

My bad. Didn't see epic.

hendrack wrote:

That was my point. Insane AB boost + spells = no.

*bans cleric and paladin*

TormakSaber wrote:

hendrack wrote:

That was my point. Insane AB boost + spells = no.

*bans cleric and paladin*

I'd love you forever if you did.

"Commoner" should be a playable race.

Edit; And im serious. It should!

Very_Svensk wrote:

"Commoner" should be a playable race.

Edit; And im serious. It should!

Commoner is a class. Any sentient race can be a commoner (strictly speaking, any race can).

Yurell wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

"Commoner" should be a playable race.

Edit; And im serious. It should!

Commoner is a class. Any sentient race can be a commoner (strictly speaking, any race can).

Woops, well i ment Class...

Just make the scrolls unscribable and remove them from the stores and put an item removal script in place for a few weeks.

The case of the UMD'd buff tank is solved.

Well not unscribable, but just do nothing when used from a scroll. If it was unscribable, wizards couldn't add it to their spellbooks from other mages.

Make it dependant on Mage levels.
Do it similar to the Ranger Blade thirst ability.
Bonus +/* (CL-10). Without 10 Levels in Sorc or Wiz, it does nothing.

UMD problem solved.

Last edited by oshizo2 on Tue, Apr 27 2010, 16:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Goody good my wizard wears a half plate. This will help me infinately. It also validates palemasters with armor.
I mean 20wiz/10pm. This allows them to melee as the was intended.

I'm gonna make a wizard now. Finally an oppertunity to use a quarterstaff in melee.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Well not unscribable, but just do nothing when used from a scroll. If it was unscribable, wizards couldn't add it to their spellbooks from other mages.

Nope you make them unscribable because its less work than modifying anything else. Wizards get as many as 65 spell choices during level ups, if you want it badly you take it then.

Make sure to put on the spell modification that it's unscribeable, though.

And even if you forget to take it, I'm 100% sure you can get a DM to spawn you one if you RP for it.

It is only a spellscroll after all.

MoshingChris wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Well not unscribable, but just do nothing when used from a scroll. If it was unscribable, wizards couldn't add it to their spellbooks from other mages.

Nope you make them unscribable because its less work than modifying anything else. Wizards get as many as 65 spell choices during level ups, if you want it badly you take it then.

Fine with me. I playz a sorcerous mage anyway >.>. Just anticipating what the spindly wizzies would say. Huzzah!

MoshingChris wrote:

Nope you make them unscribable because its less work than modifying anything else. Wizards get as many as 65 spell choices during level ups, if you want it badly you take it then.

Actually its rather easy to make it work off the caster's wizard/sorc level instead of the caster level of the scroll, which will make it useless for UMDers

Jehran wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Nope you make them unscribable because its less work than modifying anything else. Wizards get as many as 65 spell choices during level ups, if you want it badly you take it then.

Actually its rather easy to make it work off the caster's wizard/sorc level instead of the caster level of the scroll, which will make it useless for UMDers

That would involve going back into the script and reworking the numbers around to where it still equaled out for mages and then not for scroll casting. But the problem is, the scroll is cast at lv 11 and it's available to mages at lv 10. So there's really no way to rework the actual script to where it doesn't work from scrolls due to the scripting without making it useless for legit mages in those first two levels. Not that's a really big deal or anything.

I just thought a dev could modify the spell like how they modified the stat buff spells when cast from a potion. You know how Swan's Beauty and Bull's Might seem to give more than 1d4+1 sometimes. Just instead modify it to do nothing from a scroll. But if that's too complicated, jus tnixing the scroll altogether is fine, I suppose.

Quote:

I just thought a dev could modify the spell like how they modified the stat buff spells when cast from a potion. You know how Swan's Beauty and Bull's Might seem to give more than 1d4+1 sometimes.

They don't. they never do. Please, PLEASE know what you are talking about before you ever, ever post in a balance discussion ever ever again. >.<

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

I just thought a dev could modify the spell like how they modified the stat buff spells when cast from a potion. You know how Swan's Beauty and Bull's Might seem to give more than 1d4+1 sometimes.

They don't. they never do. Please, PLEASE know what you are talking about before you ever, ever post in a balance discussion ever ever again. >.<

Well excuuuuuse me. I just thought I got a +6 out of one of those potions one time long ago. Sorry if one slip in memory about a #%@& potion makes me a complete and utter nitwit in all things balance in general. My lowly and humble pardon.

Potions don't... But Empowered from a caster will buff with Bull's, Swan's etc up to +7. That might be what you remember, Tormak should know that as well, and let you down easy...

Letting people down easy is so 1990's

I know how empower works, my caster uses it religiously. Again, I was mistaken and thought I got a 6 one time, likely due to my PC having an odd modifier and getting a 5 and I remembered it as somehow a complete 6. Wow, that must mean I'm not as inept as I'm continuously made out to be, just human.

Back to things that matter. Seeing as it is not an option to script things differently from scrolls, making them unscribable is a choice option. I support it.

Well I'm old school... And apperently several decades behind still. As soon as I fix my walker, I'll catch up.

Grmbl... bugfix creates pocket clerics, at this point I'd sooner rebreak it.

Updates: Cap to Devine Power. What does this actually mean? What exactly is capped?

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Updates: Cap to Devine Power. What does this actually mean? What exactly is capped?

Damage/AC bonus is capped to your cleric/BG/pally level. Duration remains unchanged. For example, a char with 5 cleric levels and 10 CHA modifier gets 5 dmg/AC from power/might for the duration of 10 rounds.

Oh I see. So its nothing to do with divine power the spell then but the feats, divine might and divine shield.

Just wanted to clarify.

*Added the cap to Divine Power/Might is supposed to mean Divine Might/Shield probably.

hendrack wrote:

*Added the cap to Divine Power/Might is supposed to mean Divine Might/Shield probably.

Correct. I play a cleric and still get divine power/might/favor mixed up...

Tenser's Transformation.

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