AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

RPR = HELL no. Arelith's RPR system is so incredibly corrupt. and DMs have to fix every RPR on. That's so much more work for our DMs that they just simply do not need.

Also: Timezones =/= Location.

I'm on at times that are wonky as hell for where I live. Just as an example.

Explain that system, please... I haven't heard of it

Basically, there's 10, 20, 30, 40. The DMs watch you RP and they set your rating based on how good they think you are. Every 6 minutes (1 hour, Arelithian time; those who play with me might notice I still run on an Arelithian set clock), you tick off the amount you're set for.

I, for example, have a 20 RPR. You need a 30 or better to play any non "standard" subrace (i.e., tieflings, genasi, duergar), or to take the RDD prestige class.

I've honestly gotten far more levels by RPR than by hunting because XP is so incredibly cut there.

However, if a DM doesn't like you they can just....take your RPR away. There's a 0, too.

What are the downsides and upsides of that System, really?

Upside: Free XP.

Downside: Any DM who decides they don't like how you RP? Ends the free XP. If a DM simply isn't available to watch /every person/ RP, they don't get an RPR.

There's no doubt the system is flawed, but there aren't any realistic options being suggested. Like many others have said in one form or another, if I had an idea of how to fix things or even just improve them realistically, I'd be suggesting it. Frankly though, I don't have anything to suggest. I'd rather keep it than remove it though, that's for sure.

Make some players "Golden Members" (bad example) who can give out DC's secretly. Maybe if you give someone a DC it doesn't actually show up that they got one until they check their account.

Obviously only trusted players, and make a strict limit of how many DC's they can give out to any specific player (1 per RL month) and to any player (1 per RL day).

This would hopefully promote players to RP with people outside of their "cliques" and would spread out the amount of eyes and ears available to judge quality RP.

Tormak already said giving players the ability to grant DCs is a no go, but I'd picture this as more of an undercover agent for a DM. Records could be kept of all DC distribution to determine abuse.

Not a perfect idea but hopefully something others could help sharpen?

wuhwuhwolves wrote:

Make some players "Golden Members" (bad example) who can give out DC's secretly.

Why do that instead of just making them DMs?

I think the suggestion is that that would be their /only/ job.

To be honest, ive discussed with players and DM's over the years different possibilites for how DC's could be awarded. Lengthy debates have always left me agreeing with the DM team, the system is flawed, but it is the best available, and noone wants to really see it gone.

Players have proven in the past that allthough they may seem credible as a player, the responsibility of becoming a DM can corrupt. And while favourtism may be cried out on rare occassions, introducing players with the sole purpose of handing out DC's will cause potentially extreme favourtism.

The DM's walk on egg shells around us players enough already. And those who started out on the team with a heart of gold and the hope of changing things have come to realise, we the players are not exactly the best people to work with or for.

There was a time I recieved plenty of DC's and wasted them, now I dont have the time to invest in RP. Nor as much originality to attract attention like I used to, but there is noone to blame.

And while there are DM's who have been on the team for years and I have never recieved a DC from them due to timezone difference, there are also those who are within my timezone who have yet to award me any.

Which to me only makes me strive harder to catch their attention, so that when I do recieve that lovely little coin, I will know I earned it out of my rp and it was not just given out of fear that not enough where handed out.

I would rather dream coins where something rarely seen and had a sense of achievement about them, than become something that are thrown at us the players to appease us ,because we screamed like spoilt brats for not getting something we wanted.

Is there perhaps a way to show everyone a lil love by auto-dumping 1 DC on everyone for each month of activity perhaps? Or is that a headache and a half?

I've never gotten a DC, and I think things are just fine as they are. They should be extras, anyway...

I don't trust any player to give DCs that I wouldn't also just make a DM. Besides, their identities would be quickly sniffed out. You are either a DM or you're not.

Wow that was a long read to catch up on...

Most of the suggestions I thought of were mentioned but there is one I haven't seen.... What about a once a mouth MVRP (most valuable role player) reward where players can send nominations up to the DM team who then can post a pole for all the players to vote on. You could limit this to a one time only award so once you win you are never eligible to win again. It mgr be something like getting in to the Role Play Hall Of Fame. You could give it a moderate reward of say 5-10 DC's since it is a once in a life time reward for the player.

Just a thought. I am however a sympathizer of Andy's. Sometimes the system seems out of alignment and unfair for what ever it's worth.

My suggestion, and I don't know if it's a good one, would be to add an /s command equivalent to the DC wand. What this means is that as well as nominating someone, even when they've gone for the night, you can supply a reason for the nomination e.g.

/s rec SomePlayerName For staying in-character when everyone around them was spamming OOC.

The upside is, it gives more weight to the recommendation and it gives DMs a better idea of what to look for when they next see that player. The downside is, storing all that text and retrieving it between resets is probably not trivial.

The DC system is just fine, as far as I'm concerned - it works better than any systems I've seen on other servers, even providing other servers bother to reward players in the sense that you get special customized goodies/skins/characters. Honestly, the fact that those things are even made available to us is pretty sexy in the first place, and I'm of the mind that everyone should be chill and take the DCs they -do- get with some gratitude.

Want more DC's? Play a memorable character, and stop going OOC and flooding their monitors with party-chatter and //shenanigans. Also, get your character involved with the DM storylines and things like that. Get out there and DO stuff!

Oh, and talking about how good you think your RP seems a little silly. Of -course- you think your RP is good. It's yours. I think my farts smell good. They don't. Get it? Gotta face the fact that sometimes, maybe, just maybe, for that at least particular few minutes, your RP isn't stellar.

Hell, I've never really felt like my RP was that great, so I'm always pleasantly surprised when I get a DC - and I'm never disappointed when I don't get a DC just because a DM didn't happen to be online or paying attention to me personally. That's because I'm aware of the DMs' need to sleep and inability to pay attention to sixty people at the same time.

Saying it's disheartening because some other toon has cooler stuff than you because they earned more DCs is a lot like celebrating Christmas and having the nerve to whine because your brother got something you didn't.

And ya know what? If there -is- any favoritism, to a point, I'm not surprised. As a player, I expect DMs to reward the people that are -consistently- RPing to an exceptional degree.

Mind, that's just my humble opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone. I just don't see the need to change a system that works just fine and that rewards players with some goodies that are, honestly, totally unheard of on many other servers.

I Haven't observed much favouritism, it's just a timezone issue (there were no DMs on in the afternoon for me. It's now nearly 1AM and there are 3 for example).

Ben is a European DM. Ron is Australian. People DM when they DM, it's not like we can say "Sorry, you can only DM when it's nighttime in your timezone." or whatever.

This would be why I scrape and hoard every DC I have. Why I don't burn any for xp/gold or ever suggest anyone do that. And I've seen all sorts of hours of 6DMs to 0DMs.

More than anything, as much as I flirt with ideas on how to spend the DC's I've gotten, I try to keep myself realistic. Look for the RP that won't need the special goodies. Or remind myself how much stuff is already in the game module to even hunt down and find. Most 'dc' items I can't recognize as some are not visable (rings/amulets/boots) and some just look like anything craftable (armor/shields/weapons). A few times I've had people use something unique and show me afterwards that it's a DC item they can use for a spell. But I always worry "Will I stick with the PC long enough?" and I see lots of players who are constantly making a new character.

I also did go for a Tail before. I didn't have the DC's all lined up, but I was also on a request that was going to take lots of work and lots of time. I figured I could come out close enough to the DC's that, with approval, the request would flow fine. I also paced a little according to my DC count.

It fell through for IC reasons to be unsuccessful.

But there is nothing stopping you from starting RP for a potential DC request. Working on developing that fancy spell or trying to tame a creature you want the reskin for (or whatever your story will be!) Just keep the story ready for any reason it'd be delayed or paused if you're ready before the DC's are.

If DM's are on, yes thats the catch we all recognize, then it's actually proven to be good ways to get some attention. Working towards a project, something with more core than your general banter and chit-chat, although I can't deny I've gotten DC's from silly-flirty-lovey-dove RP too (a long time ago).

I think that DCs should give 1 level each, if you decide to burn them for exp.

TormakSaber wrote:

Here we go again.

I highly doubt the DC system that is in place will remain that way. No sense beating a dead horse.

Neso wrote:

I think that DCs should give 1 level each, if you decide to burn them for exp.

Uh....how about no, Scott.

Could you imagine what a player who attains DCs daily would be capable of?

Instant lvl 30's....hence the reason it takes three DCs I think to lvl...

Be thankful it takes that even. It used to be TEN dcs for a lvl.

5 DCs = 1 Level
135 DCs = 27 Levels

Thats quite a lot of dream coins to reach 30th level. I personally used them in the past for it, but not anymore, as I prefer to level more slowly now and save them for other things.

Try PMing a specific DM about an idea for a character development event. Be specific about the character's past, but vague about the development outcome (Getting a cool scar or a magic item if it's 'predestined' to happen doesn't give a DM a lot of creative room to maneuver.)

Or start a player-event.

Not wanting to crowd DM events is normal, but try finding a way your character would want to participate. That task can't be the DM's responsibility.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

Uh....how about no, Scott.

Could you imagine what a player who attains DCs daily would be capable of?

Instant lvl 30's....hence the reason it takes three DCs I think to lvl...

Be thankful it takes that even. It used to be TEN dcs for a lvl.

Can you imagine what a player who grinds for exp daily is capable off? Much more than someone who gets a DC daily, and that is wrong.

But sure, discourage RP all you want.

Just remove the system, god-dammit. It's just wrong... to award people for RP, it's mandatory and shouldn't be awarded.
Besides, as I've said a few times - It's not democratic.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Just remove the system, god-dammit. It's just wrong... to award people for RP, it's mandatory and shouldn't be awarded.
Besides, as I've said a few times - It's not democratic.

But if roleplay is mandatory and people shouldn't be rewarded for it, they need to be punished for the absence of it, meaning that me and alot of others who have "hunted" at times without saying a damned thing need repercussions.

Neso wrote:

Can you imagine what a player who grinds for exp daily is capable off? Much more than someone who gets a DC daily, and that is wrong.

But sure, discourage RP all you want.

Actually a person who grinds daily is capable of very little. Because they haven't formed any worth while relationships in game(due to not RPing)...they soon disappear as fast as they reached lvl 30, because their character was a bland waste in the first place.

No offense...but heavy hard core everyday grinders are usually very shallow characters with shallow lives....and it shows.

Actually....I am encouraging RP. If you need to hit Lvl 30 to consider any RP you do as valid...then you need to re-evaluate the reasons you're here at all....and consider whether winning every scenario in your characters life is actually a worthwhile experience.

My character has lost enough times to the point where I no longer "bite the bullet" in every instance I come across.

Sorry...but it's the new lowbie's turn take the torch on that note.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

Actually....I am encouraging RP. If you need to hit Lvl 30 to consider any RP you do as valid...then you need to re-evaluate the reasons you're here at all....and consider whether winning every scenario in your characters life is actually a worthwhile experience.

No you're not. Encouraging RP would be to make dreamcoins give as much as possible, because then you would get proper experience for roleplaying, eliminating some of the need to go out for senseless grinding.

I've seen a pattern in all of your recent posts. What you're doing is wanting as many as possible to be lower level than your own character for as long as possible. You feel that you need to "earn" your level 30 by grinding, and earning it by roleplaying does not exist in your mind.

Neso wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Just remove the system, god-dammit. It's just wrong... to award people for RP, it's mandatory and shouldn't be awarded.
Besides, as I've said a few times - It's not democratic.

But if roleplay is mandatory and people shouldn't be rewarded for it, they need to be punished for the absence of it, meaning that me and alot of others who have "hunted" at times without saying a damned thing need repercussions.

That's your point of view. But please stop twisting my words for your own cause.

Very_Svensk wrote:

That's your point of view. But please stop twisting my words for your own cause.

I'm not twisting anything, nor am I saying that I agree or disagree with you, and I do not have a cause, other than to increase the experience gain from dreamcoins, if we choose to keep the system.

Actually no...since I spent longer than most people actually RPing my low level character I KNOW no one will stay a low level as long as I had.

But you are right about one thing. I do feel that being lvl 30 should be something "Earned", and not simply given just for you showing up.

Furthermore I thought we came here FOR RP...so it need not truly be "encouraged".

Also mind this is more of an RP/Action server...therefore hunting(not to be confused with silent solo grinding) is a required part. We don't call this game dungeons and dragons, when we won't be walking in any dungeons or fighting any dragons.

The HUNTING(not grinding) is ALSO as neccesary as the RP. Your one level per dc will get rid of the need for hunting...at all....

Geld Yaztran wrote:

The HUNTING(not grinding) is ALSO as neccesary as the RP. Your one level per dc will get rid of the need for hunting...at all....

Seeing as how I have zero dream coins, I am not inclined to believe that. Or do you think you can get 30 dream coins in a month?

You seem to think that earning a level means running through the spires 6 times, killing the same things over and over again, with no real purpose. I think differently. I think that interacting and participating in the flow should earn you levels, ASWELL as "hunting".

Edit: Also, it's an RP/Action server, yeah. Meaning action based on RP. Not the ability to grind, and then RP at other times. And no, the soloers are not the only ones who do not roleplay. Heaps of 6-man parties do the same.

DC's are not rewards for RP.

They are rewards for Exceptional RP.

Here's the thing about that though...people will grind anyways....a sad fact but true.

Yes...there are people who receive roughly 30 dcs in a month. There are players with HUNDREDS of DCs.

I myself maybe have a little over thirty in like 5+ years.

Believe me when I tell you that I was once on the very same boat as you are now.

I(and many others) argued the DC situation to the point where it was altered from 10 dcs a lvl to 5.

But honestly....do you REALLY want to ruin the depth of having an ACTUAL amian history so you can reach lvl 30?

I kept my character alive this long because I wanted a character with a very rich and TRUE history.

Now, I can say things like,"Yeah I saw the Red Wizards burn that ophanage.....cause I was actually there."

Geld Yaztran wrote:

But honestly....do you REALLY want to ruin the depth of having an ACTUAL amian history so you can reach lvl 30?

... Again, there is no depth in having ran the spires and the abyss for the 100th time. You do not acquire depth through grinding. You acquire character depth through roleplay, be it roleplaying a hunting adventure, or participating in events, be they personal or global.

And what better way to reflect that than getting experience for all of those things, and not just the hunting adventure?

Yeah well there's no depth in becoming a near epic god...simply by chatting and giving huggles either.

In a sense you want the same reward for RPrs as for grinders and that's the problem. Lvling fast in ANY way is lame and causes a lack of depth.

By your theory...a Grinding RPr who does NO hunting at all should be as strong as someone who constantly exercises....which is still bad...

The amount of XP given per DC now actually keeps a middle ground between the grinders(who always vanish) and the huggle cookie givers(Who never go away).

RP alone should not a near epic god make.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

Yeah well there's no depth in becoming a near epic god...simply by chatting and giving huggles either.

In a sense you want the same reward for RPrs as for grinders and that's the problem. Lvling fast in ANY way is lame and causes a lack of depth.

By your theory...a Grinding RPr who does NO hunting at all should be as strong as someone who constantly exercises....which is still bad...

The amount of XP given per DC now actually keeps a middle ground between the grinders(who always vanish) and the huggle cookie givers(Who never go away).

RP alone should not a near epic god make.

You're missing the point totally. You can get dreamcoins (experience) for exceptional RP during hunts, events and such. You should NOT get any experience whatsoever for exceptional grinding with poor RP.

Getting dreamcoins is not as easy as you are making it out to be. You do not get them for "huggle cookie giving" RP. You're saying it yourself... You've gotten 30 over 5 years. Oh, yay... With the current system, you have an instant level 10 character for 5 years of work. Awesome middle ground.

...the problem here lies in the "Exceptional RP". There's a lot that can pull off exceptional, but some cannot... Which means we're using a system that doesn't favour everybody, hence is undemocratic and flawed.
To flawed to keep.

edit; Simply due to the fact that neither of us are Playing on equal terms. Damn, it took a while for me to find the word "Equal"

Keep it as it is until someone actually has an idea which is less flawed and reasonably implementable, if that ever happens. This topic, as always, has turned silly and rather pointless in my honest opinion, as Tormak has pointed out repeatedly.

My suggestion still stands.

Remove it; And just raise the bar on Requests.

I'll pay someone to lock this before it combusts.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Just remove the system, god-dammit. It's just wrong... to award people for RP, it's mandatory and shouldn't be awarded.
Besides, as I've said a few times - It's not democratic.

How is it wrong? RP may be mandatory, but good RP isn't. Rewarding those who reach for the stars is a good way to encourage others. And why does democracy have anything to do with this? Democracy doesn't make anything inherently good or bad.

Very_Svensk wrote:

...the problem here lies in the "Exceptional RP". There's a lot that can pull off exceptional, but some cannot... Which means we're using a system that doesn't favour everybody, hence is undemocratic and flawed.
To flawed to keep.

edit; Simply due to the fact that neither of us are Playing on equal terms. Damn, it took a while for me to find the word "Equal"

Are you arguing that a system that rewards a virtue is flawed for the simple reason that not everyone is equally good at RP? Surely such is a ludicrous preposition - we have punishments for people who can't build as well, as well as rewards for those that can, surely such a thing is undemocratic and subsequently flawed? We have some people as DMs, whilst others will never reach that level - surely such a thing is undemocratic and subsequently?

Phearnun wrote:

Keep it as it is until someone actually has an idea which is less flawed and reasonably implementable, if that ever happens. This topic, as always, has turned silly and rather pointless in my honest opinion, as Tormak has pointed out repeatedly.

I'll stand by my suggestion of accepting PMs with screenies for RP, to even out the differences in timezones. Even if it were just looked at for times where there is very little DM activity, and PMs are only accepted from those times would help even things out, and to stop spamming make sure that those who send the PM do not receive a DC from it.

What we do is never good enough and enough is never enough. This topic serves no purpose; there has yet to be a single solid idea produced after 4 pages and the same 5 people aresaying the same tired things.

Very easy to make your own mini-mod of Amia and just RP there and make screenshots.

Hell, you don't even need to do it with someone else. 5 seconds of scripting and bang, you can just talk to yourself to your heart's content, make this really shiny RP of it, and then send it to a DM.

Sounds like something no one would do, right?

It's been tried.

..Alot.

It's for this reason we only DC IG RP that we actually see.

As for DCs/Level. Tormak said it best. Impossible to please. When we changed it to 10DC/level, the playerbase said they'd be happy at 5DC/level.
Then at 5DC/level, you cried for less and claimed 3.5DC/level would be OK.
Then at 3.5DC/Level, you cry for less and claim that 1DC/Level will be OK.

I can follow this chain of behaviour all the way to 1DC/30Levels. And then, probably, there still won't be content since you still need to earn that one DC. And then, of course, we make level 30 free, and suddenly it's not good enough because it encourages people to just make their powerbuilds without work. Sigh.

My head hurts. A tale about DCs

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