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JecklynHyde

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 5:37 AM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

Well I have participated in several Neverwinter Nights roleplay servers such as Amia, Layonara, and Arelith. Given my experience playing on various servers I can pinpoint pros and cons of each server pretty quickly. Amia's strong point is certainly its Dungeon Masters, whom strive to make the game an enjoyable and fresh experience for players all the time. However I have noticed a few issues that the new management might consider implementing:

1. A PvP rule should be added where characters who are defeated in combat are not allowed to attack the person who killed them until a 24 hr cool down period has taken place.

2. Spawn system: too predictable and at times overpowering (mylock casters)

3. Persistence. I know this might not be possible, but it really does make gameplay more enjoyable, especially when the server resets frequently. The Gigashatten engine is excellent despite the fact that possibly it lags the server. Being able to purchase housing would encourage players to inhabit some of the other areas besides Cordor, for instance.

4. Too many dead ends / cart services. Why put a cart where there could be another path to travel?

TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 5:40 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Quote:

1. A PvP rule should be added where characters who are defeated in combat are not allowed to attack the person who killed them until a 24 hr cool down period has taken place.

Not viable, ICly or OOCly. Turns us into babysitters.

Quote:

2. Spawn system: too predictable and at times overpowering (mylock casters)

How is something both predictable (and thus easy) and overpowering (thus unpreppable for) at the same time? Since you are keen on bringing up Arelith, their spawn systems spawn in much the same places, as well.

Quote:

3. Persistence. I know this might not be possible, but it really does make gameplay more enjoyable, especially when the server resets frequently. The Gigashatten engine is excellent despite the fact that possibly it lags the server. Being able to purchase housing would encourage players to inhabit some of the other areas besides Cordor, for instance.

This has been in the server for quite some time now.

Quote:

4. Too many dead ends / cart services. Why put a cart where there could be another path to travel?

No idea what this is attempting to say. If you don't like the carts, go on foot? The carts are there to ICly represent the trade routes between the more commonly travelled by NPC footpaths of the island.

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Krado

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 10:46 AM

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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Hiding Inside Your Fridge

Quote:

Quote:
1. A PvP rule should be added where characters who are defeated in combat are not allowed to attack the person who killed them until a 24 hr cool down period has taken place.

Quote:

Not viable, ICly or OOCly. Turns us into babysitters.

I think the 24 hour rule of PvP can only really have positive benifits.. The current Amia PvP trend is...

-Enter PvP And lose... Or win.. The followup results don't tend to change much..

-2-5 mins later its praise jeebus my legs have magically re-grown! ... Right now to go and hunt down the guy who just owned me and cut of my legs... Yea! Hunting down the guy who was able to cut off my legs.. best idea ever....

-Kill the leg cutting guy and / or lose your arms

-Repeat

-???

-Profit!

Now.. lets think of a magic world of free ideas where all ideas are not dismissed with one sentences and by saying "Bah" with a lazy dismissive action of the hand..

The Ic benefits of this are pretty clear.. It would cause allot less forwards and backwards random PvP between two sides... The loser side needs to go away and just "Brood" I like the word brood.. Sounds quite sinister... But think of the RP generated by just simply brooding! You gather your men... Make crazy plans... Strike out at people close to the person... Plan to get him arrested under false charges... So many things other then pick up your Great-sword and run back into more PvP

But for the winner they can rest knowing they can RP and an angry Paladin wont just run up and greater smite them to the nine, They are able to have some bragging rights for winning, and don't have to get locked into more PvP just because they are up against a sore loser

Not to mention I find it quite common for high levels to kill low lvs in PvP and then give them a hard time everytime they see that person... The 24 hour rule would also mean they cant just go up and attack the person again and again and quite well ending up ruining the game for that person

Now taking the other side of the argument into account.. It could require a little bit more DM work.. and "Baby sitting" Well in all fairness It would just be a rule that wont be used that much, but If somebody wins in PvP they can evoke the rule and ask not to engage in PvP with that person again for 24 hours and the other person has to comply, No dm is bugged or called upon unless one of the players decide to willfully go ahead and do it anyway

Ic'ly its a very viable rule.. Just on the basis of that person just lopped of your arm.. Last thing you want todo is to go pick a fight with that person so if you see them you will just quietly and discreetly be someplace else..

And OOCly it just seems like a way for people who want less PvP and more RP and from my vast and grand holy Amia PvP experiences the two very rarely mix

Quote:

Spawn system: too predictable and at times overpowering (mylock casters)

Well.. I have a friend and every time we are killing Giants he drops AoE spells in seemingly random spots.. Then when he walks up giants spawn in the exact same spots.. When asked Ic how do you know where they are before you can see them! Its witchcraft I say! He just says giants always stay in the same places and any Character with intelligence above 12 can work out that all of these monsters are always in the same places... Wouldn't it be swell for a hunting trip that isn't so mechanical.. where spawns come in at.. And i may sound mad for saying this... Places that are not always the same spots

Quote:

Umm Arelith like the rest of the modern world are running dynamic spawn systems.. They are not in the same places.. And I think when he says "overpowering" he means nine fire giant mages spawning in at once all spamming blade walls at you

Quote:

4. Too many dead ends / cart services. Why put a cart where there could be another path to travel?

Quote:

I think he means that sometimes going on foot is not an option.. some areas can only be accessed Via carts and so on.. and people would like as you said.. the choice to go on foot and not use carts

But yea... *makes a dismissive action with his hand* Bah..

-Krado

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Last edited by Krado on Wed, Apr 21 2010, 13:33 PM, edited 2 times in total.

Selmak

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 12:26 PM

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Joined: 17 Dec 2004

You don't need a cooldown for PvP.

What I would say is that you can't start a blood feud and then continue it endlessly until the other person logs off. Each instance of PvP is a fresh start and if that means the other guy legs it rather than getting hacked down again, pursuing him without any supporting RP is going to get you in trouble. There are logs of PvP so if you go nuts on someone every time you see them it is going to lend credibility to an accusation of griefing.

Yurell

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 12:55 PM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Krado wrote:

What a polite way to say that, I admire your tact.

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JecklynHyde

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 13:55 PM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

I think Krad has succinctly clarified my points for TormakSaber is his own special way.

Again, since so many people seem to be issues grasping the idea and virtue of a 24 hour rule I will attempt to clarify my point and give some examples. Firstly, I'm not sure how a 24 hour rule would turn Dm's into babysitters. That, in fact, makes absolutely no sense. I would agree with you that at first people might not be aware of the rule and thus it would take some time to inform the Amia community as to the change - possibly through server messages. However, in general I think most people try to follow the rules. Also note that Amia's pvp rules ask that players hostile before engaging in PvP yet there are instances where players do not hostile. Would the hostile rule be enforced any differently than the 24 hour rule? No. All it means is that after you get raised you don't jump up, praise Jesus, and jump to your feet and go running after the person who just lopped off your leg... as Krad said. If someone breaks this rule the offended players could simply send a tell to the dm channel or file a report (complete with screenshots). The rule-breaking player is then punished accordingly.

You need to understand that most people are governed by pride and will immediately want revenge if killed in PvP combat.

I'm sure, as a DM, you would agree that its much better rp for someone who has just been gruesomely murdered to recover slowly. If he has lost appendages it would be better rp for a cleric or palemaster to go and regenerate/replace those limbs. If one of the aforementioned characters isn't around, go to the character's deity's temple and recover. And yes, you may argue that a Heal potion or resurrection spell will recover your players full HP, however REALISTICALLY a player should be in a weakened state after they die. Of course nobody is going to roleplay this very well in pvm where PC die frequently, however in pvp it is one mark of a good roleplayer who can roleplay injury and slow recovery after being killed.

Furthermore, I said its a "cool down" period for a reason. It allows the victor to roleplay their victory rather than immediately running to a safe location, resting, rebuffing, and preparing for an army that the person they just chopped up like a Chinese onion has gone and amassed. On the other hand, the losing party will depart and avoid the winning party for a few hours, since its not very realistic to be confronted by people you just killed and makes for lame roleplay: "By the nines! I thought I just chopped you into pieces, burnt your corpse to ashes, and dropped your sword down a cliff!! You must be a demi-god to recover so quickly but oh well, I will just have to chop you up again and perhaps leave some extended blade walls on you. At least that way I can make it home for tea without first being attacked a dozen times by you and your little meddlesome friends!"

Cool down period also lets people chill OOCly. By the following day they might consider the PvP trivial or alternatively they may have thought up a brilliant way to get back at the character who won, such as tricking them into a trap, or even amassing a properly roleplayed army and marching on the enemies headquarters.

JecklynHyde

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 14:08 PM

Player

Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

Regarding Persistence, this has not been in the server for quite some time now. Why is it that every time I log in I have to run back to where ever it was that my character was roleplaying? No persistence. Persistence means that the player characters locations should be saved. Some persistent servers have purchasable quarters and banks. Banks allow players to store gold. That way when you kill a character who has gold on them you can take it as a reward. In other servers players become corpses when they die. These corpses can be picked up, moved to a jail, and raised for roleplay. Which is awesome when there is no 24 hour rule because more often than not players send tells to their one hundred friends to come save them, so the corpse can be picked up and moved before the friends can arrive.

Regarding the carts. Yes, I dislike travelling around and coming to a path that leads in an dead end (which looks like a road but is a dead end) with a cart driver. Get the person who made the bard area to make a few extra connecting areas because whoever made those maps is Awesome sauce.

Merrien

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 14:17 PM

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Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

I like the idea of adding the 24 hour cool off to the rules; I don't think it'd be any harder to enforce than any of the other PvP rules. And it seems as if it would help encourage less of the stupidity "Buwaha, I am back for more! Instantly!"

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Grymia

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:43 PM

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Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada

Problem:

If it's an extended battle where one side has been pulled back or elsewise drawn away but is still being engaged while the second's are being raised/Healed, should those who were raised have to pull out of the fighting?

It's a valid point and to be rightly honest, I support either way (aside from the ease of things like Death Spells and Dev Crit taking down combatants before they even get to act)

Merrien

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:46 PM

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Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

I would think of it as more applying to individual PvP encounters than more of the event battles, etc.

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MoshingChris

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:49 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

Moving this to general discussion. Its not a mechanics fix so it has nothing to do with us. If a mechanics fix comes out of this that you want the developer team to try and impliment on Amia make a new thread about it.

I will point out that all efforts by the DM and Dev team to make Amia a more hardcore style setting without actually turning it into a hardcore server have been overwhelmingly vetoed by the vocal members of the playerbase. I have no opinion on this, I just thought i'd point it out.

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Merrien

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:51 PM

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Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

Righto - - I approve of the thread move. Is that really hardcore though? That doesn't feel hardcore to me, limiting someone's ability to pop right back into individual PvP, etc. No more so than the PvP rules we ALREADY have (and I like the ones in place already, personally).

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MoshingChris

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:53 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

By hardcore i am referring to a proper death system, like what Jecklynhide was referring to as in bodies being able to be picked up, gold being lootable from PC corpses etc.

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Merrien

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:54 PM

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Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

Oh right . . . yeah, I don't like that as much.

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Krado

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 15:57 PM

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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Hiding Inside Your Fridge

Quote:

If it's an extended battle where one side has been pulled back or elsewise drawn away but is still being engaged while the second's are being raised/Healed, should those who were raised have to pull out of the fighting?

I would think of it as more applying to individual PvP encounters than more of the event battles, etc.

Well I think the idea is more for normal pvp battles, but as far as large groups go.. My personal belief is if you died on the battle field.. you shouldn't just rejoin the battle..

But I would think that the 24 hour pvp rule wouldn't effect somebody who left to heal or so on... And would come into effect when you have a clear winner and loser.. for example one side is fully wiped out or retreats

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P Three

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:05 PM

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Joined: 18 Dec 2008

I /like/ the death system here. It's one of the reasons I started and kept playing here. Leave it alone. We've done this topic.

And you guys know what I'm gonna say about the Arelith comparisons.

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JecklynHyde

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:13 PM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

There have been a few ideas that DM on others servers have suggested in light of Grymia's tenable problem: "If it's an extended battle where one side has been pulled back or elsewise drawn away but is still being engaged while the second's are being raised/Healed, should those who were raised have to pull out of the fighting?"

Namely it is as Krad has suggested: Stay dead. "If you fall in battle, stay out of the battle, even if you're raised. If you get raised on the battle field, find an RP excuse (post-resurrection sickness, etc) to retreat back to a safe place. You can still aid in tactics and other things, but if your character falls in battle, please stay out of that battle until it's over. This can avoid a lot of chaos and bad feelings from developing, and it puts a quantifiable limit on the battle itself, which is better for both RP and performance" - Watchtower

When all characters in a group have died then they should role play accordingly, submitting to the role play of the victor, assuming it doesn't take too long. Out of OOC respect, the victors should ensure that their captured victims are able to remain for whatever post-PvP event they have planned. They should attempt to get through the role play in a reasonable time limit in case players have to leave or want to do other things besides being brutalized/executed/etc.

Other suggestions have been to keep huge battles limited in number of players to reduce lag issues. Or have guild leaders duel until someone dies, backstabs the other, or runs away, which leads to better roleplay experience anyway.

Krado

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:19 PM

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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Hiding Inside Your Fridge

...*reads the last few posts..* Anyway.... Lets keep the topic away from large battles and so on.. Really I think the rule would work very good for small pvp situations and so on.. It can also be used in large scale battles to an extent but in the anarchy and chaos of battle its really upto the players own judgement

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Alex Kafka - The Pink wonder
Watari - "Call me Mr Hiroto...
Krad - The man who likes to touch you
Blue - ..Blue!

Geld Yaztran

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:22 PM

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Joined: 05 Jul 2006

I played both(though Arelith's xp system mkes it impossible to play for long)

But I can say this about Arelith:

The twenty four hour after death rule works....and it works VERY WELL....

Breaking of that rule is grounds for insta ban. Death becomes very much more important. Faction Leaders can be taken out before big attacks are made. Key figureheads are knocked out in plotted attacks.
Arelith's one major downfall is the PvP xp loss(escpecially when nearing Epic lvls).

Amia does not have an xp loss system, but the twenty four hour rule would make death meaningful(the character who dies could at least go away).

Anyone who breaks that rule can be easily screenied, and attempts to break the rule are easily rectified.

Also, since it was imposed during DM events, EVEN if you were raised during a war you'd be told to leave the area. In this way a war could be a war, people's single lives at that moment WERE important(even if they knew they could come back later...it'd be too late), and there was no character coming back five minutes later(it happened on Amia to me and I have done it....so there :evil:

)

24 hour rule....please...

Krado

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:24 PM

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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Location: Hiding Inside Your Fridge

..*just dose not think he can sum it up better and hands Geld Yaztran a cookie...*

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Alex Kafka - The Pink wonder
Watari - "Call me Mr Hiroto...
Krad - The man who likes to touch you
Blue - ..Blue!

MoshingChris

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:26 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

Common Sense is a pretty good rule that I personally follow.

Personally:

I usually don't engage in pvp with a character thats been beaten for at least a day and may even shelf that character for a RL week to represent him healing up or whatever.

In regards to spawns:

I am working on some new ideas, but i don't do spoilers so we can leave it at that.

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Merrien

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:28 PM

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Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

MoshingChris wrote:

Seeing as common sense isn't all that common . . . I agree that it'd be great if others followed this, but as enough don't that it's noticeable, thus the idea of making it a rule.

As far as spawn ideas go, woo, thanks Chris

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JecklynHyde

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:32 PM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

The unfortunate thing, Chris, is that some players' pride will override their common sense which is why rules exist. I completely agree with Geld.

Also, I can understand players not wanting to implement the corpse system. I did not suggest Amia implements the corpse system. I merely brought it up. However, the point stands that a 24 hour rule would still benefit the server by making death significant.

Ummma

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 16:34 PM

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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: unknown

JecklynHyde wrote:

I would rather have this than portal wands, but.. who am I to have an opinion...

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IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 19:24 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Don't care about the PvP, I'd rather it was permadeath.

About spawns: it would be wonderul to make Amia's spawn system more dynamic and realistic. I can imagine it would take tons of work with no guarantee of working better, but I'd really like to see better spawns if someone ever had the ideas and time to improve the current system.

About persistence: either or, I don't care. Right now you can port/cart/ship to anywhere in the servers in a matter of minutes, and you can usually bind to the place where your rented house is anyway. Or you could keep PC locations saved, but that too seems a lot of work for little gain. Both work just fine, IMO.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 23:03 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I really don't want to play babysitter because you accidentally ran across the guy you killed 12 hours ago and now you have to pretend he doesn't exist.

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Yurell

Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 23:38 PM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Grymia wrote:

IMO, getting raised in the middle of the battle is another tactic, one to drag it out to a war of attrition rather than best build.

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JecklynHyde

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 0:48 AM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

TormakSaber wrote:

I really don't want to play babysitter because you accidentally ran across the guy you killed 12 hours ago and now you have to pretend he doesn't exist.

LOL. You provide absolutely no valid arguments to counter mine except to tout your own personal laziness. I don't care if you're a DM, grow up because there is no point responding to a thread unless you have a valid and constructive point to make. Would you rather play babysitter when some character cries after another has brutally destroyed his character five times in one night because of his poorly built character? One rule provides fairness and prevention, your lack of rules creates more work due to lack of foresight.

Anyway, regarding the other posts of more substance and validity... Yeah, I agree with Yurell that raising players in the heat of battle can be seen as a form of tactics. This would really be up to the capable-minded members of the DM team to determine whether they want players to clear off after death or whether they will permit them to continue until all the players of one team are dead.

ainjyll

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 0:58 AM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

I don't think that it would be that difficult to implement a 24 hour cool-down after PvP. It would fall under the same category as griefing. If it happens, the offended party can take screenies and send them to a DM to view and make a decision on. I do, however, believe that this can also be accomplished by the players themselves through a few tells and a bit of OOC planning.

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Selmak

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 1:21 AM

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Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Cooldowns on PvP create an OOC reason why you cannot attack a character, even when they are providing plenty of IC provocation. This therefore means Tormak (or another DM) has to waste their time resolving a situation which could have been resolved through the use of ye olde grey matter.

JecklynHyde wrote:

You provide absolutely no valid arguments to counter mine except to tout your own personal laziness.

Really, I rather think that it's you as a player who's being lazy by asking for a rule so that you can do something that you could have done anyway without one.

I sense you're just going to carry on with this thread without any regard for the people who are going to have to deal with the impact of this suggestion every day. Good luck with that.

JecklynHyde

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 1:45 AM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Location: Chemical Plant Zone - Stage 2

Selmak wrote:

Really, I rather think that it's you as a player who's being lazy by asking for a rule so that you can do something that you could have done anyway without one.

I disagree. Sure, after I have been defeated in PvP I can choose to avoid the killer for 24 hours, which I do. Oftentimes I just log off and play a different character when that happens. However my issue is with the players who repeatedly come after me once I have killed them.

Take for example this situation. You are a hot tempered half-orc and tell some random character to get out of your way. The egotistical blood-thirsty paladin responds by drawing his sword and telling the half-orc to take back his words or die. So rather than having some witty banter, the paladin hostiles and initiates PvP. The paladin gets killed. The half-orc gives him an ooc raise and walks away. Two minutes later the half-orc gets jumped by the same paladin and a dozen of his friends (even though I believe the rule on Amia is that a player remembers nothing about their death). Meanwhile the half-orc was just trying to get to a leveling area or perhaps a town and now has to deal with the paladin AGAIN because of his injured pride.

Now you might argue that IC actions lead to IC reactions, however its ridiculous to begin with that a paladin would attack a half-orc merely because he says something rude. Now, because the half-orc was playing a cantankerous character, he has to deal with a dozen people who want to PvP him. Without some diversity in characters Amia would get really boring. Not everyone wants to play a good character all the time. But people shouldn't be penalized because they want to play a character who makes the occasional rude remark. In conclusion, the 24 hour rule would work because it prevents characters like the half-orc from having to spend the rest of their night engaged in PvP when they might want to be roleplaying instead. If you love PvP so much you should play on a PvP server.

Therefore, Selkmak, I *will* continue to argue in favour of my suggestion because I still truly believe it would benefit the server and I have yet to see a good counterarguement made. If you bothered to read any of the other posts you would find that most of the people who have responded have been in favour of my suggestion. So far the only people to disagree have been making unfounded objections, which seem to be personal attacks on myself. Also, it is ultimately up to "the people who are going to have to deal with the impact of this suggestion every day" to decide whether or not my suggestion is a good one. And those "people" include people other than Tormaksaber.

Mimiron_Old

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 1:59 AM

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Joined: 01 Sep 2009

24 hour PvP timer would be nice.

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Selmak

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 3:24 AM

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Joined: 17 Dec 2004

JecklynHyde wrote:

Now you might argue that IC actions lead to IC reactions, however its ridiculous to begin with that a paladin would attack a half-orc merely because he says something rude.

The example you provide is not an everyday thing.

You make the assumption that a rude remark equals immediate PvP. In practise, it takes more than that to provoke someone. If you're going to provoke them at all.

Then you assume that winning PvP automatically means a gankathon. If there are no hard feelings then well, you might get into a fight with the same guy but unless you are abrasive and gloating OOC, the other player is probably not going to call in the boys just to take down one guy.

A 24-hour cooldown will inevitably only affect the persons involved in PvP. So if the loser wants revenge right now, all they have to do is send other characters to administer a beatdown. The winner of that PvP will probably know who's behind it, but they will need to report it to a DM if that constitutes a breach of the cooldown.

How is that any different to what you would do when reporting someone for griefing?

Even assuming that this can be enforced, it still means you can initiate PvP with someone every day that they're on. It may not seem like a big deal, but in effect you don't actually get a break if someone is tracking you down for a fight every day. One might even say, it's better to have one day where two characters really have it out and six days of peace, then seven days where they trade beatdowns.

I'm not a huge fan of PvP. I want nothing to do with it. But the change you're proposing is unnecessary and doesn't actually provide a watertight solution to the problem you describe. If you want this to go anywhere, you're going to have to cover all possible contingencies.

If you think that the objections made have no foundation then prove it. Don't kid yourself that we have nothing better to do than sit on the forums and ridicule you, whatever tone you seem to be reading is down to one or two things:

Lots of changes get proposed in these forums, not very many of them pan out and so, it is with a heavy sigh and great trepidation that we begin reading yet another change thread.

Changes have to be workable for all involved, you have to demonstrate that it won't backfire.

TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 3:41 AM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

JecklynHyde wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I really don't want to play babysitter because you accidentally ran across the guy you killed 12 hours ago and now you have to pretend he doesn't exist.

What the hell is your problem? Good lord. It's not laziness. I have better things to do, generally, than listen to you whine because they guy you killed is walking around 23 hours later and woke up from his nap early, and you, sir, demand satisfaction. No, I don't want to listen to people whine about rebuilds either. But they generally donot whine. PvP arguments come down to whining. Moreover, rebuilds are not the only thing I do to preoccupy my time.

For the future I suggest not replying as you have in the first few lines there. It does not make you look good and you shoot your personal reputation and thus pretty much the validity of all your future suggestions in the foot. You can call us lazy all you like (god only knows everyone calls us whatever names they like, be that lazy, biased, a douchebag, whatever name trips their trigger at being appropirately offended at the time) but that doesn't make it goood and it doesn't make them correct.

Quote:

Now you might argue that IC actions lead to IC reactions, however its ridiculous to begin with that a paladin would attack a half-orc merely because he says something rude.

This has nothing to do with your point and everything to do with an assumption that every paladin is badly RPed and should or shouldn't do things, luckily most paladins aren't "just paladins", they are also characters and so you really have no right telling them what they "Should" or "Should not" be doing because you are not 1: a DM or 2: The player of said character.

Quote:

But people shouldn't be penalized because they want to play a character who makes the occasional rude remark. In conclusion, the 24 hour rule would work because it prevents characters like the half-orc from having to spend the rest of their night engaged in PvP when they might want to be roleplaying instead

I and many others play a mouthy asshole of a character yet somehow manage to not make PvP the focus of my life. I am not entirely sure how but all those examples seem to say your point isn't the end all be all and that it isn't a problem with the system. If you arre so attached to your suggestion I suggest you simply ask people in game. I am not going to vote to creat more bureaucracy on the server when players should be mature enough to handle this amongst themselves and there are things I want to do elsewise with my time, like possess NPCs, and run events, and DC people.

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DarkAngelGirl

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 5:14 AM

Player

Joined: 10 Apr 2008

I think that the cooldown idea has merit. As for specifics, I can't really place a finger on. It would be a nice rule, to prevent griefing. Since we do not live in a perfect world, we cannot expect people not to play their characters like superheroes, which many on Amia do, who feel no pain nor fear. I mean, if you got beat down harshly by someone, wouldn't you think twice before just jumping back into the fray a little while later? I think it comes down to the maturity of the RPer, and we are all at different points of that.

Perhaps something similar, should be taken into effect. In my opinion, its sort of like god gaming, if your character gets killed, then comes back like an hour later to challenge again. Its quite rediculous, in my opinion. People do not take death seriously enough on this server, now I don't speak about EVERYONE, but I'm sure you are all aware of this being a bit of an issue. Its like, oh so I died, whatever, I'll just come right back, death means nothing.

Besides, revenge is a dish best served cold, and should allow time for things to brew, plots to form, and give time for your character to recover from the mental/emotion and physical trauma of the whole ordeal. Lick your wounds, and if you so desire, come back and fight, but not without proper time given. I would like a rule like this implemented, if not 24 hours, then a reasonable time frame.

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Yurell

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 5:53 AM

Player

Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

I think that the cooldown idea has merit. As for specifics, I can't really place a finger on. It would be a nice rule, to prevent griefing.

I'd like to point out that griefing is illegal, so it's not exactly as though this rule is necessary to prevent it.

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Selmak

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 6:03 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

That's what I was going to say. Kind of redundant having a system that prevents griefing when griefers being mashed by the ban hammer already prevents and deters.

Nekhy

Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 6:54 AM

Player

Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam

A piece of general advice: when coming to a new server from servers that do things differently, it's a good idea to consider why some server might do things like, for example, we do on Amia. We do a lot of things here the way we do because the players and the staff like it that way. It may not be the best solution objectively speaking (if there is such, even, I think these are always situational) and it may not be the one you prefer. It's nonetheless part of our server's culture that evolves and has so far evolved at its own pace as the population's wishes have changed.

That doesn't mean a new player couldn't have good ideas to add to the mix, but they're best delivered with less of a missionary "this is how every other good server does it and that's why Amia should do it like they do it, too" tone.

We're not heathens that need enlightenment, after all.

We've been in this business for a few years now just like the other good servers.

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Dwagin

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 1:02 AM

Player

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod

We're all heathens of one color, feather, or scale. Getting beyond the need for making a fluff about it is the first step to freeing your mind.

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Wyjyn

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 1:19 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Jan 2007

I think his points have some merit, truly.

However, I have a few of my own:

1. Sun elves are not powerful enough

2. Mages are not powerful enough, specifically wizards and more specifically specialists.

3. Drow are too powerful.

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Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 2:20 AM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Wyjyn wrote:

Hahaha, I see what you did there.

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Wyjyn

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 4:05 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Jan 2007

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Wyjyn wrote:

Hahaha, I see what you did there.

Just trying to shut down the 'attack the new guy' threads, they suck.

I like a lot of what he says, though.

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Selmak

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 14:22 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Wyjyn wrote:

Just trying to shut down the 'attack the new guy' threads, they suck.

Nobody's attacking anybody.

GD is a place where new ideas get shot down on a regular basis. Get used to it, I have.

Merrien

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 14:28 PM

Player

Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas

Selmak wrote:

Wyjyn wrote:

Just trying to shut down the 'attack the new guy' threads, they suck.

Nobody's attacking anybody.

GD is a place where new ideas get shot down on a regular basis. Get used to it, I have.

Prolly talking about the tone . . . an example is "get used to it, I have" lol . . .

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Ummma

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 15:03 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: unknown

Suggestion #something: Make sweetberries stack? Surely they are no larger than a potion bottle, and it would help to keep my inventory tidy..

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Geld Yaztran

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 15:11 PM

Player

Joined: 05 Jul 2006

I still don't understand why it would be so difficult to enforce a twenty four hour rule.

The rule would ONLY apply to PvP...not RPing.

The Paladin could in essence still see the Orc and even speak with him. He just can't PvP, or get his friends to do so neither.

As for revenge RP for later.....meh. I had a previous encounter with that and will just say:

Don't wait. Get your revenge then and there. Otherwise your target could theoretically wave the "I deserve an out!" flag.

Of course now I am completely 100% against anyone receiving an out after they seemd so willing to PvP when they had the upper hand....but *shrugs* what can you do when you have a good memory of what your character does and who they plot revenge against when the other player can have a conveniently bad memory?

Nekhy

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 16:17 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam

Ummma wrote:

Suggestion #something: Make sweetberries stack? Surely they are no larger than a potion bottle, and it would help to keep my inventory tidy..

Those items cannot be made stackable... unless the HAK brought in a way to do it. Otherwise, not technically possible.

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Selmak

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 16:31 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Merrien wrote:

Prolly talking about the tone . . . an example is "get used to it, I have" lol . . .

What I was saying there was that I have hopped onto this forum in the past with what I thought was a great idea, only to find that actually it didn't bring anything new and exciting, and it wasn't workable for all involved.

There's a difference between criticising new ideas and being critical of the person proposing them.

To be honest, I would probably not start posting change threads on a forum first thing after coming out of lurking. You should make time to introduce yourself and post on other people's threads before bringing up the galactic emergency.

Ummma

Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2010, 17:34 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: unknown

Nekhy wrote:

Those items cannot be made stackable... unless the HAK brought in a way to do it. Otherwise, not technically possible.

Ok, no worries. Was just a thought.

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