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Geld Yaztran wrote:

I hate losing because of the usually bland/weird/unasked for instances of torturous RP that follows losing.

Were I to win...I'd simply leave them to play their character and do their thing. What always happens with me is I have to sit around practically saying and doing nothing whilst people play with my characters corpse(as if matters after that point).

Now combine that with the fact that I didn't even start the damned PvP...and now I have to sit for another couple hours while you torture my character too?!....don't think so.

From my knowledge any kind of torture RP requires permission from the victim, so you have the right to opt out of that. Just say you don't enjoy that kind of thing and you'd prefer them to paraphrase or summarise what they do to you, rather than watching them play it out over an hour or whatever.

Selmak wrote:

That said, people playing non-combative characters need to be able to express their RP and character concept too. Rest assured, if they're dismissed as being irrelevant because they can't fight, then they're going to whine and complain about it. Or they're going to make a combative character and make things suck as much as possible.

They shouldn't need to feel upset in my opinion. They get to express their character concept and impact the server through their RP, so losing the odd pvp (which, if their character is non-combatative, would probably be a rare event anyway) shouldn't be a big deal. As long as the winner doesn't rub their nose in it OOC (and personally I think IC gloating about pvp wins is very tiresome, whether IG or through forum posts).

From the banite POV (I play a banite), having a suboptimal build is basically unthinkable, things being the way they are IC at the moment. As a villain we are often imposing aggressive and sinister character concepts on others, which sometimes leads to pvp, or we are defending ourselves from our enemies, who frequently powerbuild and prepare for pvp as well.

Its a choice between getting stomped on constantly for being the only visible evil faction on Amia and being subsequently ridiculed and getting to play no part in the server dynamics or being a force that can viably jossle for power with other players and provide opportunities for more sophisticated plots and RP. Easy choice, really.

Going back to the main topic, judging by last night's encounter, I would say the good guys aren't few.

Mimiron wrote:

Going back to the main topic, judging by last night's encounter, I would say the good guys aren't few.

Word. They are just not very noisy.

"Most" Evil characters make a name for themselves. Fast...and easy. They kill somebody; and voila - You got a reputation.

It's a little more difficult for Good guys, because we are humans, and naturally we orient around conflict, and the idea of solving it. So good guys get's a little "behind the curtain" behaviour. But there's Lots of em...as mimiron said.

Vaylek wrote:

From the banite POV (I play a banite), having a suboptimal build is basically unthinkable, things being the way they are IC at the moment. As a villain we are often imposing aggressive and sinister character concepts on others, which sometimes leads to pvp, or we are defending ourselves from our enemies, who frequently powerbuild and prepare for pvp as well.

Its a choice between getting stomped on constantly for being the only visible evil faction on Amia and being subsequently ridiculed and getting to play no part in the server dynamics or being a force that can viably jossle for power with other players and provide opportunities for more sophisticated plots and RP. Easy choice, really.

Okay well consider this. You're recruiting and working with players who are willing to sacrifice points in skills and abilities which are as you put it 'sub-optimal' because the other guys are doing it as well. What you're doing there is making a whole bunch of quite similar characters. They don't have quite the same connections and social prospects as a so-called RP build. If someone asks you to roll a Skill Check in a social setting, you haven't the points spare that they have, not even close.

You may think that there's no room for non-combatants in your ranks but it's quite probable that a policy like that doesn't encourage a diverse mix of characters within a faction. When there is boredom it's not because you have whomped everyone in sight and can't endure the tedium of doing it again, it's because there isn't anyone at the home roost to sing your praises, remind you of all the great battles you have won, and tell you why you're fighting when you character feels they can't go on.

What you're forgetting is that these heroes and villains, even when they have done terrible things in the name of victory, are people too - and they need an outlet besides the battlefield. If you don't provide one then they become shallow and unremarkable - they aren't really heroes or villains any more, they're just a bunch of dudes fighting for a stupid colour or a flag or even worse, twenty yards of dirt.

Of course, having a build or not having a build makes no difference to a player's ability to RP. But a character can be handicapped in any situation which does not draw on combat ability. They can actually make things worse if for example, they have a short temper. Being aligned with certain factions also means that even with the right social skills, some doors will not open no matter how charming they are.

One of my characters happened to catch the other side of things (i.e. the good guys) and unsurprisingly it makes for pretty dull RP to rattle on about battles and casualties, who won and who lost, who's joining and who's not. Maybe they were just having an off day, but I got very little sense of the actual emotions of the characters involved which says to me that the players don't feel they have an outlet, or they aren't looking for one. Either way, that was a missed opportunity to RP with someone who isn't involved and get some outside perspective, a sounding board, anything.

I'm going to stop there because I don't have the big picture. I have a few theories and not very many facts, but I certainly don't see the wholesome goodness from where I'm standing. It's either there or it isn't, which is it?

Dull to you, maybe.

I'm with vaylek on this one. I've played a banite; and i know the pressure hey have against themselves... Considering they play followers of a Tyrannic, Fearsome, and madly evil diety.

They're kinda cornered, and to avoid getting cornered, they have to have the optional build to defend themselves. Because i rarely see them attacking settlements.

My thing is:

There's more then one way to skin a cat.

There's more then one way to do good for the world.

Long as you don't pigeonhole combat to be the only way to bring change, I'm good.

They don't. They do it because they've convinced themselves that they do need it, though. And the good guys started doing it because the badguys did it first after convincing themselves that they needed to. And thus you have a wonderful catch 22, must like many of the other 'problems' in Amia that involve factions at each others' throats.

Quote:

Long as you don't pigeonhole combat to be the only way to bring change, I'm good.

It's not and never has been. Historically combat has been pretty much the worst way ever to bring change.

Then as I said in my post: I'm good.

That said I still have combatant characters and probably will continue helping fight where they can.

I guess... I know i get a little stuck in the "Flee or fall" Thinking. Because that's often what Pvp is about... People won't back down on an OCC level, because "The majority" Do not want to look weak.

And besides, Pvp is ...Its a rush. Adrenaline... It's amazing.

Back to the point
------

There are still Good men around, They are just a little subtle, and have to thread more carefully than most evil characters. (Note that I use the word "Some", because it sure doesn't apply to every evil toon)

Selmak wrote:

Okay well consider this. You're recruiting and working with players who are willing to sacrifice points in skills and abilities which are as you put it 'sub-optimal' because the other guys are doing it as well. What you're doing there is making a whole bunch of quite similar characters. They don't have quite the same connections and social prospects as a so-called RP build. If someone asks you to roll a Skill Check in a social setting, you haven't the points spare that they have, not even close.

Yeah sometimes I wish I still had all those ranks in bluff, and it did make feel like Vay was a much better liar, because I actually sacraficed skill points into an RP skill. I used to have fun bluffing people back in the day... but yeah, most people's spot/listen would still own it, and even when it worked some kind of metagaming or 'dice rolls are irrelevant here' talk made me decide I didn't need it anymore.

We don't tell people they have to powerbuild (though we help with builds if they ask) but banites generally decide to do it of their own accord, I know I did. Was talking to someone after the battle event the other day, where his level 30 was KO'd 5 seconds into each fight he got into. Wasn't much fun for him I guess, playing a big dopey half orc barbarian/fighter banite, with no rogue levels (invalid build), and just getting mashed at the first sight of a paladin.

He probably imagined his character being one of the more durable and fearsome foes in mellee, a half-wit mostly silent warrior who shows his true devotion to Bane on the battlefield, where he fights with power and endurance and... oh look at that he was kickboxed in the head by a cleric/monk and now he's dead. This is an example of a character concept which needs to be validated to some extent by success in pvp, and is not going to be fun at all to play (who wants to RP a pathetic warrior in a paramilitary group like the banites?) without some kind of rebuild.

He probably feels like he let his faction down, which he didn't, we're honestly just grateful to have another person around to RP with. But this is the thought process and typical course of events which leads to character optimization. And I agree with Grymia and Svensk.

I disagree. Someone has to lose, no matter how much optimising you do that doesn't change. It might change the order in which characters go down but certainly, someone wins and someone loses.

I would argue that in that case, the character concept should change to suit the build. Because if someone loses, gets demoralised, and generally doesn't have much luck in life, that's fertile ground for RP. Someone who wins more than they lose, has good days and bad days but never a long rut of disappointment, so they have less woe to contend with.

But nobody's going to listen to that argument, much less take my suggestion on board. I have nothing further to add.

I see where your coming from, Selmak, and you're right. But there's only so much losing and having your character kicked to the side and RPing that sincerely, before you become bitter and disheartened by your IC situation and what it demands from you as a player.

That's the general sentiment of Godo's 'No place for a monster race' post, same would apply here.

Yurell wrote:

I'm sorry, my characters at least value their hide. The fact that these groups are continuing to rampage tells my character one thing - others who are likely more powerful have tried to stop them, and have failed. May be brave, but not stupid.

*Applauds.*

Five points of Kudos to that one, Yurell.

Last edited by Mr Mago on Thu, Apr 22 2010, 3:39 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

Unfortunately what I find is that every hero and supposedly goodly type is pvp happy. After five minutes of discussion by the time I'm finished the supposedly good guy ALWAYS attacks.

That has been the story of my life.

You guys (DMs) have witnessed this over and over with the Banites.

Though... to your comfort, Geld. It does ease up little bit once you've killed about 500-600 epic good aligned characters in brutal fashion.

90% of them still keep coming at you though.

And... to the actual topic at hand:

I admire Vaylek's responses. They're wise, accurate and does portray the situation as it is rather well.

I kind of dread at the complaints from those players who currently play good or neutral characters, about the evil forces (mostly due to the expansion of the Banites) gaining more power and influence.

You guys weren't here, for the 4 years while I was playing Darthion, when I... as a sole evil doer, pretty much had the entire server against me.

Evil has been overpowered and stomped down by Good/Neutral as long as I've played on Amia. And in the early days, it really was quite bizarre how bullied the surface villains were (drow actually had a strong standing, and most players who wanted to play evil characters utterly refused making a surfacer, and instead made a drow, since they felt that playing evil on Amia was an impossibility due to the opposition and mentality of the server).

I'm glad to see that the tables might be turning. If even for a moment.

And we all know that the goody goodies and neutrals always side with each other in the end. Leading to yet another 45+ level 30 epic heroes of Amia doing a full scale assault on the 15 Banites who happen to be online.

Oh... and Tormak: Evil guys starting the powerbuilds inflation?

Did you ever hear of Paladhooms?

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I'm sorry, my characters at least value their hide. The fact that these groups are continuing to rampage tells my character one thing - others who are likely more powerful have tried to stop them, and have failed. May be brave, but not stupid.

*Applauds.*

Five points of Kudos to that one, Yurell.

Not necessarily true. Due to no permadeath and requiring DM consent to do anyone and anytihing to a faction area or the surrounding areas. This was never more true than a few nights back, were lack of DM input meant... well... that the Banite Castle is still standing.

TormakSaber wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I'm sorry, my characters at least value their hide. The fact that these groups are continuing to rampage tells my character one thing - others who are likely more powerful have tried to stop them, and have failed. May be brave, but not stupid.

*Applauds.*

Five points of Kudos to that one, Yurell.

Not necessarily true. Due to no permadeath and requiring DM consent to do anyone and anytihing to a faction area or the surrounding areas. This was never more true than a few nights back, were lack of DM input meant... well... that the Banite Castle is still standing.

*Shrugs* It's still what my characters think and see, regardless of the OOC reasons behind it.

Well... crap. I edited my last post, since I figured it would be unnecessary to post a third one in a row.

So... you might want to re-read it, if you responded to it, or something >.<

Sorry about that.

TormakSaber wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I'm sorry, my characters at least value their hide. The fact that these groups are continuing to rampage tells my character one thing - others who are likely more powerful have tried to stop them, and have failed. May be brave, but not stupid.

*Applauds.*

Five points of Kudos to that one, Yurell.

Not necessarily true. Due to no permadeath and requiring DM consent to do anyone and anytihing to a faction area or the surrounding areas. This was never more true than a few nights back, were lack of DM input meant... well... that the Banite Castle is still standing.

Story of my life, again.

How many times have the Banites lacked DM input, which effectively has kept them from accomplishing anything other than endless killings of those goody goodies who routinely come back and tries to chop at them just for the sake of it?

I've killed Yaston what... 20+ times or something?

And he has yet to defeat Darth.

I know that the DMs are quite keen on seeing good prevail. And it has always disgusted me. But seriously... try to be a bit more objective for once.

No. We're not. Stop going off on your personal tangents, Darth, especially when you do not even have a personal stake in the server anymore. This topic will not be derailed because you can't accept the fact that we may not all be devils out to get your faction. Because we are not.

I have 4½ years of experience and quite a few posts in the Banite forum that says otherwise.

And it's just not the Banites. It's evil in general. Doesn't matter where it's coming from.

How many of the current and past (within the last 2 years) DMs play evil characters as their mains? >.<

That's irrelevant. You don't need to play an evil character to be fair to them.

And DMs, being humans, are always completely objective and unbiased. In particular when they likely have an emotional as well as time investment in their main characters, which probably played a huge role in getting them to the position in the first place.

Though... I'm not really saying anyone's at fault here.

Amia as a whole, and that includes the players, module and setting, has always been biased in favour towards good/neutral. And the most common explanations I've been given as to why that is, usually comes down to "good guys are usually more pleasurable than those who murder and pillage and pray to evil gods". Which is true. And which is why we dread "evil" as our IRL selves.

But this is a fantasy setting. It's not based upon IRL realism. There's room for the extraordinary. And that includes the possibility of evil not being shunned at every corner.

Bane is the most famously "evil, we know we are evil, suck it up, we are marhcin in ur towns and iron fistin ur peoples" deity in Faerun. That there is *somewhere* outside the Moonsea region and anywhere that isn't your base of power that doesn't dislike you (nevermind fea,r someone can be afraid and HATE your guts), but actually genuinely likes you is probably pretty close to unheard of. And with your actions on the server it should be no surprise that everywhere hates you. If you want to play an evil deity with the potential to be liked, Bane was absolutely the wrong choice.

It has nothing to do with being liked.

It clearly says in the Banite Forum IC & OOC guidelines that our role -is- to play the villains, which everyone will end up hating.

That's hate, coming from the characters. IC.

Offering allowance to exist, progress and be part of the world on an OOC basis, is something entirely different. And it's sadly something I've seen little of during my time on Amia. Although, that aspect has improved immensely during the last year alone. Which is positive, I suppose.

Hence, why I'm glad to see that evil in general, is gaining grounds on the server. Because it's been long overdue.

Considering the amount of 'Evil' factions on Amia, both secret and obvious, I find it astounding that only the Banites seem to encounter these socalled 'problems', consistently, yet it somehow reflects upon the plausibility of evil on the server, despite... other evils not encountering the same issues.

Food for Thought.

That's because the other "obvious", public evil factions, tend to not do shit.

The thayvians experienced similar stuff while they were active. Same with horsemen.

Ha! being evil doesn't pay after all!

I'd beg to differ that the other Evil Factions do nothing; even the two you cited.

What they do obviously, however, or what they allow to be known to the public when it's unsafe, is a completely different question, of course.

Granted, I may only be able to say this because I can peek behind the curtains as a DM and see what people are doing.

BrainSplitter wrote:

I'd beg to differ that the other Evil Factions do nothing; even the two you cited.

What they do obviously, however, or what they allow to be known to the public when it's unsafe, is a completely different question, of course.

Granted, I may only be able to say this because I can peek behind the curtains as a DM and see what people are doing.

Isn't that quite ...Boring? I mean, to know everything in advance... Must be in the long run.

Actually, I think Mago and WonWon are half-right on the case of other evil factions.

Yes, they have been able to still pull off their own business, and yes they are similarly opposed.

However, there is something about their movements that keeps them from being so blaringly evil they may as well be pulling Death Eaters every time they kill somebody. (Sending off a flare high into the sky which creates a huge mark)

That said: The Banites have to some extent done a bit more subtly from what I can see.

Back when I was playing Dmitria, there were a couple of things I wish I could've thought of that I see now and might have worked, if the cards were played right.

I'll not speak them publically in case one of the Banites' current operators happens to be on the same wavelength as me, but there was more options at your disposal then you folks might think.

And if you think Good has it easy, HAH! I'm again not gonna give specifics (due to current plot spoilers) but I could quite gladly prove you long.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Isn't that quite ...Boring? I mean, to know everything in advance... Must be in the long run.

More than you could potentially believe.

However, it can be also extremely entertaining to watch when the factions are operating without any OOC et-al. That's amazing to watch, and worth the boring drudge of watching everyone else.

Well, in the case of the Banites, we can't operate without OOC, because as a evil faction, we have OOC restrictions.

You have the same restrictions OOC as anyone else. I mean, for example; prearranging things OOC, handling matters OOC, OOC disputes, checking things OOC before doing them, etc, etc, etc. Only thing OOC that should be voiced is when you ask the faction leader of an opposing faction if they agree to a KoS. Otherwise? Nothing else needs your OOC.

The moment the OOC Channel is opened in any regard in any conflict (Whether goodguy, badguy, or sidelines) - I pocket the DC Tool, not touch it for the day, and find something more interesting to observe.

In a perfect world that might be true. But in any sort of IC conflict situation there is the risk of OOC bad feelings. Be it PvP, capture RP, torture RP, or what have you.

That's why OOC communication between members of opposing factions becomes paramount on some level. This game would personally be a lot less enjoyable for me if I didn't know I could easily talk to Mourn, Yaston or Calin and iron out any OOC rough patches that might come up in the course of our interfactional RP.

im fairly new to the server and am playing a goodly paladin and have had to enter pvp nearly everytime I met an obviously evil character (e.g someone who is dressed all in black, a skull mask, just generally being evil and having a lovely undead companion) basically because they refuse to unsummon their undead. Thats basically it, I approach them see the undead, ask why its there, say that its not just, then say that they should remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it or I shall have to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it. then I have to do it myself and usually end up dying because im a low level and im just trying to rp a character. This isnt me trying to say evil is playing the characters wrong or anything like that. Im just saying thats why I think people are not playing goodly characters because its just difficult and not as much fun.

Jacks_Vengeance wrote:

im fairly new to the server and am playing a goodly paladin and have had to enter pvp nearly everytime I met an obviously evil character (e.g someone who is dressed all in black, a skull mask, just generally being evil and having a lovely undead companion) basically because they refuse to unsummon their undead. Thats basically it, I approach them see the undead, ask why its there, say that its not just, then say that they should remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it or I shall have to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it. then I have to do it myself and usually end up dying because im a low level and im just trying to rp a character. This isnt me trying to say evil is playing the characters wrong or anything like that. Im just saying thats why I think people are not playing goodly characters because its just difficult and not as much fun.

You don't have to play your paladin like that. If you know you can't beat the evil necromancer, why not talk to him, befriend him, try and learn his name at the very least, and then pass his name on to some stronger do-gooders, and tag along behind them when they go and ask him to 'remove his foul creation'.

Paladin + befriend necromancer = have a nice trip see you next Fall

Unfortunately, Vaylek, a paladin has taken a very strict oath to handle those matters with his own hand, guided by the powers of his divine patron. What you suggest is what a "good person" would do who recognizes that he or she is outmatched.

A paladin has faith on his or her side, however, and no evil in this world can outmatch the grace of his or her god or goddess. There are two reasons why you see so few paladins in the world of Toril:

1) Very few people possess the necessary strength of character to curry the favor of a divine patron and earn the title of a paladin;

2) The majority of those who do die in instances described by Jacks_Vengeance.

I played a paladin for a while. It was extremely fun, and he was not a paladin of the Blake bent that became so infamous on this server. No, he struggled to recognize that evil is a power, a choice, and that it does not always define an individual. You have to do all that you can to stop the evil from harming other people as well as the offending individual, without committing the evil of murder yourself (he was a Lathandran, and therefore, the concept of the glorious rebirth and rehabilitation was a powerful one).

Thus, it was my MO to do exactly as Jacks_Vengeance, to constantly ask a person to relinquish the undead from their service and let it rest as the gods have willed it, and to warn, and to warn, and even to plead, "Please, do not make me force my hand upon you, I do not wish it to come to such violence, but in the defense of the people and in the spirit of doing what is right, I must act and cannot allow the abomination to continue" until I had to backslash-backslash "here it comes" and roll into PvP, most often getting my ass handed to me, but if not, always, always, always pointing out that it was non-lethal damage, merely subduing the evildoer with the holy cudgel of the Morninglord and dragging them to a clerical leader amongst the faith of Lathander to beg that clergy to use his gifts for good, and to speak with the offending evildoer about the nature of the soul and the rules and benefits of a society founded on virtues, etc. etc.

Yes, I am aware that it was an unusual kind of paladin to play in an extremely brutal world. But the combination of Lawful, Good, and Paladin to me is so rare and extraordinary a combination that the character himself must be, in many ways, rare and extraordinary, outside of the box, not cookie cutter, like few things you've seen before, and so on.

I say this, Jacks_Vengeance, so that you will understand that in playing a paladin, you are right - your gods (DMs) are watching you, and they will judge your actions.

Yea, good doesn't have it easy. Order of the Flaming Blade isn't exactly what one would call good, but we are thus chained to many aspects at this time because of our open alliances with the Triadic Knights and the Eternal Order. Thus I'm running into some interesting situations that I would never run into before these alliances, because before this I didn't have to think about "Is this gonna be percieved as evil by my allies?" but now I do. Its showing me the goodguys are extremely limited at what they can do. Though as has been said, I think there is more that can be done then what is currently being seen, on both sides. I think there is a bit of a block by people that they can't do this, or can't do that. Don't think that way guys, the situation often defines what you can and can't do, you simply have to ask the DM's if its okay to do these things. Not every action has to be an iron fist in the head, as a lot of actions that are smaller, simplier, and less noticed have greater rewards.

Mre like LAWFUL good is limited.

CG FTW

Ah yes, CG.

The "I want to be CN but don't have the balls for it" alignment xD.

I know that's tongue-in cheek Selvec, but I think it does CG a disservice.

Yea, was a joke. Tormak likely gets it. :twisted:

Careful, I'll have Shaundakul go all CG on your ass... :evil:

I have no idea why you're arguing about that, other than to scrabble for second place - LN is objectively the best alignment :twisted:

"God knows, it's easy to be kind; the hard thing is to be just."
-Inspector Javert, Victor Hugo's Les Miserables

Jacks_Vengeance wrote:

im fairly new to the server and am playing a goodly paladin and have had to enter pvp nearly everytime I met an obviously evil character (e.g someone who is dressed all in black, a skull mask, just generally being evil and having a lovely undead companion) basically because they refuse to unsummon their undead. Thats basically it, I approach them see the undead, ask why its there, say that its not just, then say that they should remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it, that it would be a really good idea to remove it or I shall have to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it, last chance to remove it. then I have to do it myself and usually end up dying because im a low level and im just trying to rp a character. This isnt me trying to say evil is playing the characters wrong or anything like that. Im just saying thats why I think people are not playing goodly characters because its just difficult and not as much fun.

One of the downfalls to playing a paladin. Look at it this way, the tables... they shall be turned when you're level 30 and you run across the level 10 necromancer with the undead summon. Until that point, just keep plugging away and doing what it is that your paladin does.

I will have to admit that I gave playing a paladin a try for a bit (about 2 weeks) and found that I don't have the fortitude of character to maintain such a strict code. So, in that vein, kudos to you for giving it a try and sticking with it.

Yossarin wrote:

Unfortunately, Vaylek, a paladin has taken a very strict oath to handle those matters with his own hand, guided by the powers of his divine patron. What you suggest is what a "good person" would do who recognizes that he or she is outmatched.

A paladin has faith on his or her side, however, and no evil in this world can outmatch the grace of his or her god or goddess.

Hmm, fair enough, BUT, how far should you take this 'lawful stupid' outlook? Hypothetical situation (which could easily happen on Amia):

Paladin A is waiting outside Kampo's to meet Paladins B and C.

Necromancer walks by, followed by winterwight.

Paladin A asks Necromancer to dismiss summon, necromancer refuses.

Should paladin A wait for his comrades, so they have a better chance of felling the necromancer, with a slight risk of letting the necromancer get away while he waits?

Or should he attack on the spot and die, a martyr for his beliefs which need to be addressed right here right now?

What would the code of conduct dictate?

Arguably, one could say Paladins have a supernatural protection against fear for a reason.

However, the more reasonable answer is the quick question: Is it more important to fall on one's sword in a potential suicide mission, or to see that good is done when he knows his comrades are likely en route.

I love / Hate playing my paladin.

Mostly because of the "Fear immunity". Like yesterday, i felt like i was ruining the Banite Torture of my PC by roleplaying extreme faith in the afterlife, and fearlessness of death.

I hated myself for it.

Where have all the good men gone?

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