AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - New Platinum Subrace: Gnoll

Last edited by Aridos on Fri, Apr 16 2010, 22:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I suggest entering the Gnoll race into the list of Platinum Award Subraces under the "Half-Orc" section.

The reason I'm suggesting it would be followed by such:
Gnolls are a "simple" enough race in the realms. They aren't overly different from orcs, goblins, kobolds, hobgoblins and the various subraces under the half-orc section in behavior.
Obviously, playing one I know of the lore that does indicate they are more pack "animals" (And actually so are the entire goblinoid races, even though they are calling those "clans").
In such, I think entering the Gnoll subrace that is not overly unique (such as approving celestial or devil) but needs a dedicated player with certain Rp abilities and lore access to play (Such as people requesting Elflings or Snow elves).

Obviously such a plea/request is to the DMs and general populace to discuss and suggest- so, discuss.

I believe that its been said that there will be no more subraces like that, and the gnoll has been suggested many times before. I believe the consensus is for it to be DC requested if you wish to play one.

I would also like this to bee seen in game; and my main argument is the nature of the gnolls. They're Pack animals and stay in groups and clans themselves. Currently it's troublesome to find -anybody- to play a gnoll with, and even fewer are willing to spend/ or have the dc's to request the skinchange.

It would open up a lot of RP possibilities to many players; and visions and dreams would be put into action.
Having the race as a PlatinumRace also enables the DM team to weed out the obvious affronts to the race.

Your chance of having this implemented is very slim indeed.

Dev Disco wrote:

Your chance of having this implemented is very slim indeed.

Why? Reasons and arguments behind it? :O

Because theres alot of other things that need doing first. And I mean alot, which i suggest everyone bears in mind when making suggestions or questioning the chicken, devs, dm's, scriptors and testers.

Between faction areas, new areas, our own projects, things that have been backed up for awhile etc and other concerns changes to subraces are frankly low on the list of priorities.

I can't take chris serious with that avatar...hahaha. :lol:

This has been requested to many many times in the past. See the link for previous arguments.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33679&hilit=Gnoll
I think Disco has also said many many times now that he won't be messing with the Subraces.

MoshingChris wrote:

Because theres alot of other things that need doing first. And I mean alot, which i suggest everyone bears in mind when making suggestions or questioning the chicken, devs, dm's, scriptors and testers.

Between faction areas, new areas, our own projects, things that have been backed up for awhile etc and other concerns changes to subraces are frankly low on the list of priorities.

And because of a swindling list of "Things to do", we can't debate on this? Well... Shall we move it to the general section then perhaps?

Woah, hi there Aridos.

Request + 10 DCs for skin change.

Well, that's just the issue...

While many would love to play a Gnoll, i know people are scared to invest those DC's. What if they just don't like it?
Trial and error, you don't know until you've tested it.

I don't see any real huge difference between this, and requesting a fairy. The actual "Request" will still be put forth for DM Dissection, and they will still have the final say. It's just that the scary DC cost will be removed.

The Fey is already in the subrace system and doesn't need additional developer work. Other players invest 10 DCs if they want to play a special race not in the subrace list.

Quote:

What if they just don't like it?

That's what a request is for, to think about something special before you play it.

Hey, Jan.

Yes, and I'm just tossing ideas.
The main deal here was making people more aware of the choices taking when making a playable character (As in, making the Gnoll race a more common choice in the Amian Democracy). A new person will come into the server, and see on the subrace list what he can choose from before he probably even fully understands the DC system.

Investing 10 DC, that not everyone has, and instead giving the option for decent roleplayers that can prove them noteworthy of the lore by placing a request from a Platinum Award race.

I'm not fully pledged head-bangingly going to rush forward into making scripters work if they have heavy loads on their backs. I think even just raising this banner here might give people the idea to band together and try to take the monstrous race forward (As I've read a topic scrolling back, yes, I searched for previous Gnoll topics, saying the Gnoll race is quite "hip") so more folks would look into playing it.

To make more people playing it, the more easily accessible it is. That's a practical equation.
Of course, if someone would really wish for one, there would be no stopping him of the cost, but the idea here is encouragement.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I can't take chris serious :lol:

.

FIXED!

Yes. I agree with Aridos.
This is a suggestion that it's moved to the Platinum Subrace field; under half orc or something. Not that we remove requirements all together; making them the new "Deekin"

Nada. We aren't touching Subraces, sorry. Been discussed before, even Gnolls in particular.

Well, I would imagine you might if Disco ever agreed and had the time. However, as has been said many times: they're a mess to implement right, and therefore not a very good way to spend/waste precious dev time.

Dev Disco wrote:

Your chance of having this implemented is very slim indeed.

Since this has been stated, for the greater good, or, just for my own thought on amplifying my point to see if there is in actuality a Gnoll-supporting community base, I will at least start a poll.

Everyone loves to vote, it's a right, so they say.

This does not mean I'm trying to go against statements previously said here, I still can not force work on Devs and scripters to perform tasks they don't deem needed, but if it'll come out in full force of support. I don't see why it should not be viewed as an important change and improvement to Amia.

Polls don't really do anything. Disco's said it himself.

Its a good way to determine the general opinion of the playerbase.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Its a good way to determine the general opinion of the playerbase.

It's a good way to determine the opinions of the small amount who regularly frequent the forums.

Yurell wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Its a good way to determine the general opinion of the playerbase.

It's a good way to determine the opinions of the small amount who regularly frequent the forums.

Exact same thing, other way around.

If I created a poll, asking "How many people check the forums" I expect the answer will be 100%. Since there are obviously not 100% of people checking the forums, it is not the same thing.

Added to that, the poll just tells you that people want a new toy. If you put up any question that asks if people want something new, most people tend to say yes. So no, polls don't really do anything, especially if Disco vetoes.

I voted yes just because it adds variety to the server. I was in a server where you could have that.

MadrikVale wrote:

I voted yes just because it adds variety to the server. I was in a server where you could have that.

But you can be a gnoll without it being a platinum race, and because it's a request it'll likely bea much more well-thought-out character and contribute more.

*shrug*

It'd be cool to see the gnoll as playable.

..

And mermaids! Beached mermaids!

MadrikVale wrote:

*shrug*

It'd be cool to see the gnoll as playable.

..

And mermaids! Beached mermaids!

Gnolls are playable - with a request.

Yeah, but I mean as more common like kobolds and goblins - without a request.

...

And beached mermaids with yogurt!

I'd be more interested to know about Gnoll culture first. Does it make sense to have them as a subrace? I always wondered why we have a hobgoblin subrace in Amia as I never saw any hobgoblin around, and the same goes for Gnolls. They don't strike me like a sea-faring folk, you know.

Given how most monster races are handled by players, I'd rather have every sort a DC Request, including Planetouched, Kobolds, and Goblins.

Therefore, obviously, I'm'a be quite against adding Gnolls as a relatively easily available race.

BrainSplitter wrote:

Given how most monster races are handled by players, I'd rather have every sort a DC Request, including Planetouched, Kobolds, and Goblins.

Therefore, obviously, I'm'a be quite against adding Gnolls as a relatively easily available race.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you.

Dev Disco wrote:

I'd be more interested to know about Gnoll culture first. Does it make sense to have them as a subrace? I always wondered why we have a hobgoblin subrace in Amia as I never saw any hobgoblin around, and the same goes for Gnolls. They don't strike me like a sea-faring folk, you know.

According to the MM, Gnolls are nocturnal carnivores, and they usually think about only food. They disdain manual labour, and alliances usually fall apart when they get hungry, so they don't strike me as a race particularly adept to be seafaring.

Edit: According to the AD&D Monstrous Manual (a lucky find at a charity sale!) they usually live underground, and "Gnolls eat anything warm blooded, favoring intelligent creatures over animals because they scream better. They will completely hunt out an area before moving on", so any food they keep will likely be fresh - I can't see them salting it. That said, a day or two of sailing probably isn't out of their range, should they manage to steal a boat and not eat the people who know how to use it, but getting to Amia seems an impossibility for them.

Individual gnolls have been known to be hired as caravan guards, so it is quite possible for a few gnolls to be distributed far and wide, but I sincerely doubt to the point of becoming common.

Dev Disco wrote:

I'd be more interested to know about Gnoll culture first. Does it make sense to have them as a subrace? I always wondered why we have a hobgoblin subrace in Amia as I never saw any hobgoblin around, and the same goes for Gnolls. They don't strike me like a sea-faring folk, you know.

We used to have Hobgoblins, both in the Skull Crags and i n he Forest of Despair. There's also hobgobs in the brokentooth cave. Hobgoblins are also fairly intelligent and find themselves hired out as mercenaries more than a few times, too, due to their military intensive society.

Gnolls are... pack animals. Savages.

If someone was ever looking at adding more subraces again, I'd rather the more normal subraces were included first. Forest Gnomes, Arctic Dwarves, Jungle Dwarves, maybe Tanarukk in the Planetouched department, Grimlocks in the UD, the major human ethnicities (properly implemented with flavor feats/skills, not ability modifiers like the current ones). And as for monsters, I'd sooner see just plain Gray Orcs and Lizardfolk than gnolls.

Even all that is unnecessary, but filling out the missing basic subraces should be the first priority if anything was ever done.

BrainSplitter wrote:

Given how most monster races are handled by players, I'd rather have every sort a DC Request, including Planetouched, Kobolds, and Goblins.

Therefore, obviously, I'm'a be quite against adding Gnolls as a relatively easily available race.

That's not a good reason, though.

Even if you included it in the system, it could still be highly regulated via requests. It would just mean that those few approved gnoll PCs could pick the proper subrace. I don't think that charging 10 DCs is a desireable goal in itself, so it could very well be dropped out of the equation by simply adding an application subrace.

But as I said, gnoll's nowhere near the most important subrace to add.

BrainSplitter wrote:

Given how most monster races are handled by players, I'd rather have every sort a DC Request, including Planetouched, Kobolds, and Goblins.

Therefore, obviously, I'm'a be quite against adding Gnolls as a relatively easily available race.

Add drow to the Platinum Award section too.

Sylfwe wrote:

BrainSplitter wrote:

Given how most monster races are handled by players, I'd rather have every sort a DC Request, including Planetouched, Kobolds, and Goblins.

Therefore, obviously, I'm'a be quite against adding Gnolls as a relatively easily available race.

Add drow to the Platinum Award section too.

Unfortunately that won't really work, since if they require a request there will likely never be enough of them (same with the other UD races such as Svirf and Duergar). And if numbers of these races drop too low, the whole inhabitable UD areas are made rather pointless - no one will want to play where they can't interact with anyone else.

If a new monster race is to be added, I think an unused one should be removed, least from selection. Since they are practically never used. However, I do notice that Gnolls seem to be very popular PC monster race. Furthermore, there is quite a good dynamic version of them avaliable.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=1978

However, the issue with adding such a race is this. Will players actually use it? I mean, obviously some will. But some doesn't cut it when you have plenty of monster and non-monster races that simply aren't used by players. Why put in all that work, just to never see it used? Seem's kinda silly.

Well, Since the suggestion is to add them as a platinum race; it will more or less just open up the eyes to some that "hey? That's cool, you can play a Gnoll on this server", and as the author of this topic said - it might add some fresh players to the server.

secondly; Making gnolls a Platinum race is pretty only going to remove the 10DC Cost. I know i wanted to play a gnoll before, even made a request.... But it took me 2 months to amass the amount of DC's to actually buy the Skinchange; and by that point i had all but lost interest.
For me; that was a problem.

So, a summary of my arguments would be - Opens up interesting Rp, May attract new players, affordable and playable for the not so DC rich players, Nothing chances in terms of Control from the DM Team ;as they have the right to deny the platinum award if it strays to wildly off the Lore.

I Voted Yes.

I wonder, What are the downsides beside More Developer work?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Well, Since the suggestion is to add them as a platinum race; it will more or less just open up the eyes to some that "hey? That's cool, you can play a Gnoll on this server", and as the author of this topic said - it might add some fresh players to the server.

secondly; Making gnolls a Platinum race is pretty only going to remove the 10DC Cost. I know i wanted to play a gnoll before, even made a request.... But it took me 2 months to amass the amount of DC's to actually buy the Skinchange; and by that point i had all but lost interest.
For me; that was a problem.

So, a summary of my arguments would be - Opens up interesting Rp, May attract new players, affordable and playable for the not so DC rich players, Nothing chances in terms of Control from the DM Team ;as they have the right to deny the platinum award if it strays to wildly off the Lore.

I Voted Yes.

I wonder, What are the downsides beside More Developer work?

Quote:

But it took me 2 months to amass the amount of DC's to actually buy the Skinchange; and by that point i had all but lost interest.

I believe thats why they are a DC request race. Because people will lose interest. The downside is all that effort to make a new race, gets shunted aside and used as a "gimmick" race for a bit. Kinda like how people make a half orc character once just for giggles, make him big, ugly, super strong, and then never touch him again unless they are super bored.

End's up being a terrible waste of resources. The 10 DC limit at least assures the people doing the work that the person wanting the skin change actually is interested in playing that character well and for a while, since they spent that long amasing the DC's.

I don't think that we'd be wasting resources if we attracted a few more players.

Well thats the thing. Proof would say otherwise if you look at other servers. The DnD server is long past its prime and it offered the ability to play races of every sort. Giants, ogres, Mino's, Cat people, Gnolls, etc etc. It never actually had more players then Amia at any one time. It didn't require you to download anything either. So more races don't really attract more players by that fact or proof alone.

Very_Svensk wrote:

I don't think that we'd be wasting resources if we attracted a few more players.

I doubt being able to play gnolls for cheaper would attract many new player tbh.

This isn't being done folks, so keeping a topic open for spam and debate seems counter intuitive.

New Platinum Subrace: Gnoll - Poll Post

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