AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

ainjyll wrote:

There is a certain frustration that comes from the Superman captives, as I like to call them. You capture someone, have them locked up and are threatening to do all sorts of nasty things to them and they laugh. Fine, I can get with bravado. Then you start doing the nasty things and they're emoting *laughs in the face of pain* or whatever. I just snipped the character's hamstring to keep them from running away... there is no laughing at that. I've torn my hamstring when I was playing football and it was one of the most painful things I've every experienced. I never tell people how to RP their characters, but when that happens, I don't want to keep them around. Kill 'em and toss 'em.

I know it can be a tad trying to be on the receiving end of capture RP, I've had my characters captured and imprisoned before, once for 3 days (I had just started playing on Amia and had no idea about the rule). But it's not always me, me, me, me, me. Sometimes, as a responsible player, you have to set your own fun aside for a moment and let someone else have their fun.

Well-stated. I agree.

I concur. Well stated... Well written. Kudos

ainjyll wrote:

There is a certain frustration that comes from the Superman captives, as I like to call them. You capture someone, have them locked up and are threatening to do all sorts of nasty things to them and they laugh. Fine, I can get with bravado. Then you start doing the nasty things and they're emoting *laughs in the face of pain* or whatever. I just snipped the character's hamstring to keep them from running away... there is no laughing at that. I've torn my hamstring when I was playing football and it was one of the most painful things I've every experienced. I never tell people how to RP their characters, but when that happens, I don't want to keep them around. Kill 'em and toss 'em.

I know it can be a tad trying to be on the receiving end of capture RP, I've had my characters captured and imprisoned before, once for 3 days (I had just started playing on Amia and had no idea about the rule). But it's not always me, me, me, me, me. Sometimes, as a responsible player, you have to set your own fun aside for a moment and let someone else have their fun.

This.

762 wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

There is a certain frustration that comes from the Superman captives, as I like to call them. You capture someone, have them locked up and are threatening to do all sorts of nasty things to them and they laugh. Fine, I can get with bravado. Then you start doing the nasty things and they're emoting *laughs in the face of pain* or whatever. I just snipped the character's hamstring to keep them from running away... there is no laughing at that. I've torn my hamstring when I was playing football and it was one of the most painful things I've every experienced. I never tell people how to RP their characters, but when that happens, I don't want to keep them around. Kill 'em and toss 'em.

I know it can be a tad trying to be on the receiving end of capture RP, I've had my characters captured and imprisoned before, once for 3 days (I had just started playing on Amia and had no idea about the rule). But it's not always me, me, me, me, me. Sometimes, as a responsible player, you have to set your own fun aside for a moment and let someone else have their fun.

This.

I agree wholeheartidly. I plat a few toons that like the pain, and find pleasure in it. Thats not to say that they are immune to torture, however. For instance, one toon I play that would really get going from the pain, would find it quite disturbing if his loved ones were threatened, turning the toon into a whimpering fool, who would do anything to not see them hurt. For the players who may enjoy pain, the good rp'rs will always have something that makes them fearfull, or at least I would hope. As far as the 24 hour rule goes... I dont really care for it. If your a good rp'er then I dont think that it would matter. Either my toons escape, or not. Recently I had a toon in the lockup for... Three days I think, I was fine with that, and had some great RP because of it... Thanks guys, you know who you are.

I very much agree with what ainjyll wrote.

One reason I stay way from capture/torture scenes.

Because I knew I'd go apeshit on these superman characters, and it would not be torture but mutilation then, or even worse.

Remember pain is only one of many forms of torture.

OOooh yes. ^_^

Ok, sorry, I shouldn't smilie in a conversation about torture. But, there are many different ways to inspire fear in someone outside of just inflicting physical pain.

Grymia wrote:

OOooh yes. ^_^

Ok, sorry, I shouldn't smilie in a conversation about torture. But, there are many different ways to inspire fear in someone outside of just inflicting physical pain.

The dark side of the Server Bear! lol....

But seriously though... Agree on the fear thing. I think something really important to well-rounded characters is this: they're flawed. They may be good, they may be evil, they may be strong, etc. But all well-played characters have flaws, whether they be phobias or paranoias, pride and/or racism, etc.

A really good flaw can be the best RP ever.

<3

(Bubbles will run at a full dragon regardless of its color and has questionable taste in men, even to the point of showing some masochism or self-destructive tendencies. Arwen can be very aloof and overly independent. Jess is a mess interpersonally. . . . etc. And all of them will show fear, pain, etc. They are not superheroes) ...just examples.

All my characters have flaws, one of them is the biggest coward you will ever meet. He never killed a single spawn dureing hunting but instead bosses everyone around like they are inferior to him. Its fun!

Having a flaw not so obvious can be fun to, and when someone discovers it and uses it to there advantage it is a great thing.

However I do have to agree with the general idea of this thread, too many players have characters who are immune to fear, pain, bribery, threats against there family. It just seems that no matter what they will get up and continue to be a menace, this is for both sides good and evil.

You're welcome to hold my PC captive for 24 hours...

... as long as you stay with me and RP with me, consistently, for those 24 hours.

Mr Mago wrote:

You're welcome to hold my PC captive for 24 hours...

... as long as you stay with me and RP with me, consistently, for those 24 hours.

Reversed torture?

"Please.. I.. I can't anymore.. I need sleep!"
"Oh no! You will stay awake and give me what I want, until you drop dead or collapse! Whatever comes first"
"Nooooo!"

Mr Mago wrote:

You're welcome to hold my PC captive for 24 hours...

... as long as you stay with me and RP with me, consistently, for those 24 hours.

Except that the rule states that whether or not you like it OOC, for those 24 hours you can be legitmately held captive, and if a DM ruling passes, for longer than that.

I'm gonna be blunt, and it's probably gonna get on peoples nerves, so be aware.

The 24 hour rule in my opinion is good. Because clearly there is a large percentage of the server who lacks the maturity or ability to let their character be captured. A large percentage of the server, from my experience, has always pulled the "Can't keep me prisoner cause I won't let you" excuse, and that make the people who put the effort into capturing them feel like utter crap.

I'm not gonna mention names, but you know who you are that do this, and you have nobody but yourself to blame for this rule being defined and put in for all to see.

I think that the capture rule should be put in the same category as PvP. If there is supporting RP that says that your character could/should be held captive by another PC or faction, then you should have no say as to whether or not it happens. Seeing as almost all captures have PvP involved, I think it's just a logical progression. I would even be all for seeing the time extended to longer than 24 hours, barring DM intercession, of course. Place the burden of proof on the one that's captured to prove that they shouldn't be held for more than 24 hours. I'd be more than willing to agree to 48 or 72 hours being set as the standard rule. I'd also be more than willing to agree to a time period where the PC isn't played.... 24 hours of capture, then 24 hours of not playing the PC at all. It may just make being captured a bit more of an OOC setback and not just something that can be shrugged off.

TormakSaber wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

You're welcome to hold my PC captive for 24 hours...

... as long as you stay with me and RP with me, consistently, for those 24 hours.

Except that the rule states that whether or not you like it OOC, for those 24 hours you can be legitmately held captive, and if a DM ruling passes, for longer than that.

Sure. But someone who captures a character, holds it captive for 24 hours, without RPing with it or keeping the player behind it entertained, is a douche bag.

And a DM that enforce an even longer captivity, under the same conditions, is a douche bag as well.

If someone holds my character captive for 24 hours, without RP or entertainment, I'll probably ditch any future interactions with that player and lose any respect I might have had for him/her/it.

Mr Mago wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

You're welcome to hold my PC captive for 24 hours...

... as long as you stay with me and RP with me, consistently, for those 24 hours.

Except that the rule states that whether or not you like it OOC, for those 24 hours you can be legitmately held captive, and if a DM ruling passes, for longer than that.

Sure. But someone who captures a character, holds it captive for 24 hours, without RPing with it or keeping the player behind it entertained, is a douche bag.

And a DM that enforce an even longer captivity, under the same conditions, is a douche bag as well.

If someone holds my character captive for 24 hours, without RP or entertainment, I'll probably ditch any future interactions with that player and lose any respect I might have had for him/her/it.

Begging Pardon, but players can't actually humanly be up 24 damn hours Mago.

That said: I do agree as long as they are around, you are around and can have someone RPing to watch you, they really ought to. But, if they do have to get on to other things (Such as.. y'know, RL?) then I'm sorry, but nothing can be done.

And calling a DM a douchebag for legitimately making a field call? That's not appropriate conduct.

If you as a player told me when being held: *Would love to continue being questioned , but I have to go, can we arrange to continue later*, I'm generally good about it.

If I have to go, I try to let you know with enough time to arrange a future link up as soon as I can get back to you, or otherwise have something worked out so you aren't just sitting there alone.

Trying to buck being a prisoner solely because a player can't be availible to be with you those 24 hours is bloody ridiculous.

I just go with the flow of the RP really. If my character is captured IC, then its IC, and I roleplay accordingly. If they want to keep my character for awhile, then fine. I can have my character do some RP, then log off, and come back another day to continue the said RP. I can always play my other characters in the meantime.

Now I don't agree with capturing something, then just leaving them to rot. The prisoner should be RPed with of course, or else whats the point? I'm currently in an RP where my character is prisoner, and whenever I'm on, I haven't been ignored, which I greatly appreciate.

I guess really the point I'm trying to make, is be respectful and mindful about it. Go with the flow, and don't be a stubborn boob. Be mature about it. All parties involved should show respect to eachother and to the appropriate situation.

Grymia wrote:

Trying to buck being a prisoner solely because a player can't be availible to be with you those 24 hours is bloody ridiculous.

Ehh... no it's not.

If you capture a character, and then log off for 24 hours (for whatever reason, legitimate or not, doesn't matter)... you're effectively keeping the character and player out of play. It's the equivalent of a 24 hour "permadeath". Or should I be forced to stop playing because another player has to go?

And yes... some people have alt characters. Yet not everyone does. And no... you shouldn't be forced to make an extra character, just because your character has been captured.

Vouching for harsher penalties and consequences, because Amia has been so laid back and no one really seems to give a crap about what happens to their characters any more... is one thing. Effectively keeping a player from playing on Amia for 24 hours (or in an even worse scenario, for an extended amount of time per the discretion of a DM), is something completely different. And should be avoided at all costs.

Oh. And DMs can be douche bags as well, Grymia. Or make douche bag decisions, for that matter. Regardless of how much you've managed to delusion yourself of DMs always being holy saints.

As for the first part of Mago's first statement about players being douche's...I completely agree...

As for the DMs...I think they base their decisions on the idea that something fun or good will come of it and in the end it tuns out not to be the case.

You can still be an arse as a guard...but for god sakes be there

People do not come here to RP alone

A DM can be flawed, Mago.

There's an appropriate way to address this, and it's not by calling them a Douche Bag.

If you begin to "ignore the existence" of players and character sin the world solely due to OOC feelings you are no better than the people you claim to hate.

My characters have been pretty lucky on Amia and have only been captured a handful of times and most of those were pretty interesting experiences that I didn't really mind all that much. There was one that sucked, but I'll leave it lying in the past where it should stay. The point is, if my character gets captured, I expect that the person doing the capturing has the time available to devote to RP'ing with me and my character. If they don't, they should leave my character lying dead or unconscious wherever they happen to be. I just consider it to be a common courtesy towards other players.

Might I make the point that the tactical repracuations of capturing certain players in inter-faction warfare are astounding Mago. Its because those players know this, and thus act like complete tossers when captured, that this rule NEEDS to be in place. Because thats the intent 50% of the time you capture someone else after all, to gain a tactical advantage IC. When that tactical advantage is completely thrown in the shitter and the supporting roleplay to get to that point made out to be a farce, then this rule needs to come into play. Because being caught by other factions requires a consquence, and making actions that anger many people require consquences, that being a greater ease of being captured. Declaring War needs consquences to, and being captured is one of these to.

I point out that the "don't have to accept raise" thing still exists, even if it is pure lame, and thus circumvents capture. Personally I think that rule needs to be tossed in the crapper myself, even more so then this one being put in place. Raise via cleric is understandable for that rule, raise by scroll, thats a grey area that needs defining.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I'm gonna be blunt, and it's probably gonna get on peoples nerves, so be aware.

The 24 hour rule in my opinion is good. Because clearly there is a large percentage of the server who lacks the maturity or ability to let their character be captured.

Actually you got that wrong. It's because there is a large percentage of the server who lacks the maturity or ability to be good captors, thus casuing no one to want their characters to be captured. And yes...the twenty four hour rule was applied to captors who simply forgot and left their captives(and players) hanging for extended periods of time.

It's not a punishment. It's a LIMIT....and the DMs only allow that limit to be bypassed when:
1. the captive agrees
2. The captor is known to be a responsible player who the dms know will keep the captive characters player entertained.

So actually...the rule is not to enforce an imprisonment....it's a limit imposed upon the captors.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Might I make the point that the tactical repracuations of capturing certain players in inter-faction warfare are astounding Mago. Its because those players know this, and thus act like complete tossers when captured, that this rule NEEDS to be in place. Because thats the intent 50% of the time you capture someone else after all, to gain a tactical advantage IC. When that tactical advantage is completely thrown in the (censored) and the supporting roleplay to get to that point made out to be a farce, then this rule needs to come into play. Because being caught by other factions requires a consquence, and making actions that anger many people require consquences, that being a greater ease of being captured. Declaring War needs consquences to, and being captured is one of these to.

I point out that the "don't have to accept raise" thing still exists, even if it is pure lame, and thus circumvents capture. Personally I think that rule needs to be tossed in the crapper myself, even more so then this one being put in place. Raise via cleric is understandable for that rule, raise by scroll, thats a grey area that needs defining.

You can refuse a raise from "the other side". It's completely IC, completely legit. Though I often dread it as well, when people refuse it. Since I'd care to RP some more with them rather than just toss the bodies into a random river.

Regardless.

I've killed hundreds of characters. And I have yet to capture anyone who wouldn't be immediately sacrificed and then tossed out so that they can go about doing what they consider as fun, again.

It's an OOC courtesy. No one will find enjoyment or fun in being held captive for 24 hours with no one to RP with them. That just sucks balls. I've never done. Would never do it.

This game is suppose to be played for fun. But it seems like a lot of Amians have forgotten about that, and turned it into seriouz buziness.

Well that leads to an interesting question:

What would you do to keep a captive's player happy? What creative things would you add to make your captives player have a good time?

My answer is a couple things:

I love depth. Chopped off fingers and other, actually rather shallow if not in depth of damage, wounds won't do. A word cut into the chest....most players keep it for some reason. It's a shallow cut that sometimes causes deeper RP...heh.

Not a chopped off finger, just the top half of the first knuckle(allows the player a scar that's not so disfiguringly traumatic)

As a captor, if I really had to keep a character for 24hrs(Never did it, never will), If I had another guard with me...I'd casually chat with the guard directly in front of the prisoner. If alone...I might actually try to bond a little with the captive..and add to the RP by feeling almost a little bad about his death.

... Y'know: TBH There's more interesting ways to inspire fear in a captured enemy soldier then chopping pieces off..

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I point out that the "don't have to accept raise" thing still exists, even if it is pure lame, and thus circumvents capture. Personally I think that rule needs to be tossed in the crapper myself, even more so then this one being put in place. Raise via cleric is understandable for that rule, raise by scroll, thats a grey area that needs defining.

Not accepting a raise is perfectly legit by the way raising works in PnP. That doesn't mean you can't capture them though - a corpse puts up less struggle than a living adversary, and costs less to maintain while you ransom it off.

@Geld: I think your wrong. I think though you make a reasonable point, and that the reason it was put in place probably exists in a middle point. I'm thinking now that the blame lies on both captor and captured for causing the need for this rule. I believe that there are people on either side of any engagement who whine, bitch and generally make PvP RP or Capture rp a living hell, putting people off it.

I don't see why someone can't jump on another character while they wait 24 hours. Its not a huge issue. You can't expect someone to be on all the time, but 24 hours allows a limit for capturing someone. Alternatively, you can come to an agreement to let them go earlier. It promotes the captor and captured to act with maturity, otherwise both get stuck around for 24 hours.

@Yurell: All well and good, except True Rez is tossed about like a bottle of Zambuka on a bus trip. Removing the ability to ransom. Furthermore, many things that can be done with a corpse are limited to one particular alignment, which means its fine for some groups, not so much for others.

^ pretty much what mago said.

Mr Mago wrote:

It's an OOC courtesy. No one will find enjoyment or fun in being held captive for 24 hours with no one to RP with them. That just sucks balls. I've never done. Would never do it.

There's a big difference between not being RP'd at all in those 24 hours being bad (I agree with that) and expecting to be RP'd with those entire 24 hours (some people need to sleep and work).

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

Yeah, I basically agree with Mago overall. It may not be perfect, but being captured can be lame especially if it is going to be a repeated thing. The big issue overall is that if it were a PnP game the DM would probably either do something really interesting or allow the party/character to escape somehow. There really is a simple solution: capture/kill them, and expect them to at least back off for a bit afterwards. If you do capture them for longer, the RP better be interesting not just "enjoy a week of nothing". No one is going to come online for the real prison experience.

Also, DMs allowing longer imprisonment is an epic flame war waiting to happen if you are not careful.

Yurell, if they arent going to RP with you why not just say you were imprisoned for X amount of time? The game has a sped up resting system because we dont want to watch our characters rest for 6 hours, same with imprisonment i'd say.

Because when it comes to imprisonment, RL time is a very real different thing than "assumed passage of time", for the reasons that Selvec has explained.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

TormakSaber wrote:

Because when it comes to imprisonment, RL time is a very real different thing than "assumed passage of time", for the reasons that Selvec has explained.

I think the overall point is that keeping someone imprisoned is pretty boring for them, really. Unless you find a way to make it interest, not sure you should do it. I would never consider actually imprisoning a drow character for any real length of time unless I was certain there was going to be some great roleplay pay off from it.

That's your call, however, should it become necessary, you may do so for 24 hours.

Mr Mago wrote:

I've killed hundreds of characters. And I have yet to capture anyone who wouldn't be immediately sacrificed and then tossed out so that they can go about doing what they consider as fun, again.

I beg to Differ Mago, remember Jaea?

So far none of my chars on Amia has ever been captured, mostly because my characters are without pride or shame and usually won't think twice before fleeing a dangerous situation unless they have a really, really good reason not to. Like defending the temple of their God.

That said, i do not mind capture as long as it makes sense. I can live with being put away for 24 hours, I can do other things meanwhile, but I'd prefer it to have some interaction in the very least. What I'm not particulary fond of however is torture RP. It either makes me uncomfortable, or bores me. If my chars are to be captured, I want it to lead to something more interesting than chopped of fingers and an impaled and mutilated body that can be fixed in no time at the nearest temple (Which i will do, because I do not like mutilation.) Capture my char in the wilds, break his leg and leave him to die however, I will spend weeks making him recover from that.

I'll be honest when I say I utterly hate capture/torture RP.

My very first months playing Amia were all spent in such scenarios.

I will admit one thing...a bad thing perhaps...

The amount of torture/capture rp one can go through CAN and IS traumatizing after a while.

Believe it or not regardless of whether it's a game or not, playing the role of a character, and having to gauge and think about how they would feel in a torturous situation, especially when immersion is a factor in it all, is traumatizing.

Especially when you invest a certain amount of feeling and thought to actually make your character seem like flesh and blood.

Honestly more than half the problems this server has could be actually solved with one thing: OOC

I would have a much easier time putting my character through hell if at least I could feel disconnected as a player. I don't feel I should have to be surprised as a player...even if my character would be shocked and surprised.

When you immerse yourself in your character...sometimes OOC is needed for me personally to....."Pull myself out of the immersion"...and that causes me anger when something unexpected, torturous, and traumatizing happens to my character without my knowledge as a player.

It's the reason why my last capture encounter went horribly wrong. I lost trust in the captors as a player, more than anything cause I felt left in the dark as a player.

We're all here to have fun. So why in the hells would you want to keep someone away from the game for 24 hours?

Capturing someone can be very fun for both parts, but only as long as you can sustain the roleplay. Once you no longer can, for the love of god, free/sacrifice/whatever the character. There is no reason to keep them there, other than to punish someone OOCly. You can roleplay that the character has been imprisoned for longer than he actually has.

I'd suggest a change to the rule:

Instead of being unable to play a character for 24 hours, why not (when the prison RP pool has been drained) have the rule say that you shouldn't be a pain in the arse to the faction/character that captured you for 24 hours?

I just go with the flow. If there's reason for my character to be kept captive for 24 hours or more, I will go along with it. My only captive experience was at the hands of drow when I first started playing on the server. I found that experience fun, it pushed my character to stand up for what she believes in and even die before she does anything against her God's dogma. Looking back on it now, there are things I would have done differently had I known some things about death that I know now.

The characters I have now won't throw their life away for pride or for fear of shame (as QPR said). Life is more important to them than proving a point and they do fear death and what may come from capture so it's a rare thing to find something they truly would fight for.

I don't think I'd mind keeping my character in captivity indefinetly as long as there's RP going on, my character legitemately deserves to be there until something esle IC happens, or the RP is more than just apparent torture for torture's sake.

I've had it happen before where one of my characters was taken captive, but I had to log a few minutes after. The captors said it was fine and said I was held for a day or two and just to use my imagination as to what happened, etc,etc. As long as both sides are satisfied with the effort in RP, I don't really see why anyone should have to call on the 24 hour rule. The captor and captive could always just agree OoCly on how long the captive was "held" IC like what happened in my situation anyway.

If someone does vouch this 24 hour rule, then I imagine that happens anyway. Captor says OK OoCly and they just agree on how long the character was held.

24 hour rule for capture?

Who is online