AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Right this is a question to the DMs -not- players.

The question is how does one RP being killed. Because being killed can be tramatic yes however the mind could repress it because of that trama meaning it feels like you've just woken up. this leaves it up to so many ways to take it... i've seen players rp the trama and i've seen others like myself shrug it off because on amia death is not a big deal I believe this is done like this so players don't quit because they work so hard and then their characters dies and thats the end, of course it'd make things more risky and fun because of the danger it implies. but because of how death is treated it's not agreeable to the server.

I was pulled up on how my rp of dying and being raised wasn't good enough. but the experience of death and then coming back to life isn't something one can imagine only put words to.

So i post this will the hope DMs will gives some strong guidelines for all players to better their RP as a whole as well as my own. I mention strong because giving it a general clue still leaves open far too much player opinion and thus the cycle starts over again of death being treated as nothing more than "Changing socks" to quote a DM on his opinion of my RP towards death.

Finally, I hope to see some interest by the DMs to this because it will not only help me but others of the server because no one can truely know what it feels like.

further more I'd like the guide lines to be change to befit amia's death, e.g monster death, and PvP death. Such as will the player then be too tramatised to carry on both or will there be exceptions say raised in mid pvP.. can they carry on or are the tramatised so rendered immobile same for monster death.

All I say is, there are some things in the game mechanic I ignore. The ease of death is one of them, and it depends on my PC. It bothers me (and this is just me personally) when players speak IC in the "It doesn't matter if you kill me I'll just be back alive in a few minutes and continuing my roleplay so har har" sort of manner. That's no fun, and it smacks of OOC.

If my bard is killed somewhere, being timid in nature, She'll be traumatized. She'll take precautions. Spells, armor, or she'll just avoid where she was killed for a while. All of my PC's acknowledge the pain of death. It's sort of like how parents describe hell. No matter how long you're getting burned, the pain never gets any easier to tolerate.

Some of my PC's are more adventurous than others, but they all know death hurts, and it sucks.

It's an odd mechanic to have to work around, but if we want to keep having a server that's lenient on -way- more than it probably feels like we're lenient on, you need to work around it. Be creative. Suspend disbelief.

My two cents.

One of the positive features of Amia is that, to a certain extent, the DMs allow you to interpret things your own way, without your own circle of players. The problem, of course, comes down to when your views and the views of others do not mesh at all, and we in our infinite hope and belief in the playerbase like to think you can always work out these hiccups amongst yourselves.

And when you cannot, we put up the rule that the victor in PvP decides whether you live or die. Just like in the PnP game - when you reduce a person below 0 HP, you can choose to have it be either lethal or subdual.

As far as "how do I handle death?" I leave it up to you, honestly. If you are comfortable, though, jay, you can tell us how you handle it personally, despite a very rude player telling you that you were not doing it well enough. If you'd like to do so publically you can do it here, or privately, in a PM to me. But imo, if you RP anything to death at all, you're at least doing something right.

For my own purposes, I am a bit like Nekh. If I am out PCside and I get my butt kicked, I treat it like I got my ass handed to me and crawled back home alive to lick my wounds, not that I actually died. Although my brain has no trouble comprehending death followed by resurrection, I simply do not like it. Of course, if a player takes me down in PvP, it is their choice!

This never happens to me. But hypothetically, if it did, you can be rest assured I would treat that death very seriously. Probably by being permanently (or for a very long time) afeared of said murderer and not want to get anywhere near them, or do anything that would make them want to kill me again.

Sorry that I do not have stronger guidelines. I do not think the playerbase needs them, and if the only reason you think they need them is because some people said "dude, u suck" then what they actually need is a smack upside the head for being douchebags.

Moved to here, doesn't really fit the improving amia forum. And per Disco's wish he'd rather not have discussions there so we have them here.

Note I will give my sole opinion as a dm not as the team as a whole.

Characters quite often "died" in the sense the respawn screen boot up, either somewhere adventuering or facing other players. As the respawn penalities are not overly severe (not going further with that here) and the frequence some people see this screen some begin to regard this screen of death as nothing but a minor annoyance happening every now and then.

Sometimes different forces in the world of amia and will resort to their weapons. That part is fine, combat is an intergrated part of nwn and amia and a challenge for those involved.

What goes wrong is when defeated characters who have been slain just after a raise just walk up and walk away with some snarky ic comment.

What is wrong with this? What is wrong essentially is that the entire element of being defeated is ignored causing everyone to feel the combat was a waste of everyone's time since the defeated it not even bothering taking it seriously.

This is the key of issue. Every time you shrug of death with a monty phytian "It's just a flesh wound" attitude when its a result of fighting other players you are effectively ignoring the interaction you just had with the people you fought with.

Even though we do not have strict mechanics it is the common sense of most people that you respect these outcomes and you respect your fellow players by actually roleplaying the aftermath of death. If it is an ic conflict, its not a quick duel in the arena. The clash carries meaning and significance because its a clash of conflict.

What do I want people to do when dead or just being brought back to life. Well shortly put I want it to matter. You roleplay having a limp, your character perhaps is still in terrible pain from the defeat. Raise dead certainly doesn't remove pain and while many's first reaction is to chug a heal potion this doesn't mean you should just stop roleplaying the defeat.

The mechanics for heal doesn't exactly say "everything wrong is fixed and you can go about as you did before) and in this case stretching it is a good idea. Remember failing to attach any sort of meaning whatsoever to your character's defeat is close to being a direct smack in the face of those you fought with. It downplays combat a lot more than it should. Cobmat isn't just sticking your sword in the right direction, get killed and go home. It matters if you get killed and even though mechanics doesn't force consequences on you, you have a obligation as a player to another player to make the death matter for the enjoyment of all.

Quote:

This is the key of issue. Every time you shrug of death with a monty phytian "It's just a flesh wound" attitude when its a result of fighting other players you are effectively ignoring the interaction you just had with the people you fought with.

Quote:

This is the key of issue. Every time you shrug of death with a monty phytian "It's just a flesh wound" attitude when its a result of fighting other players you are effectively ignoring the interaction you just had with the people you fought with.

This really says it all. No Reason for me to go on a long ramble..

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

This is the key of issue. Every time you shrug of death with a monty phytian "It's just a flesh wound" attitude when its a result of fighting other players you are effectively ignoring the interaction you just had with the people you fought with.

Not a DM; just expressing my agreement with this sentiment. If it's unwelcome, I'll remove it.

When you just rez and come back 5 minutes later with reinforcements or something, it just cheapens the RP overall and more oft than not will dissuade people from RP'g conflict RP with you again.

And as a Banite, while I don't really like PvP (at all), it generates some rather amazing and extensive RP. To cheapen it for selfish reasons is just sad.

*jumps up and down and claps hands* Oooh goodie goodie goodie!

It's good i can get this much of a reply from the DMs on this and yes it does cheapen the RP if you just walk away. and no it was not a player that made that comment to me but "the Voice within" so a DM. And the idea of leaving it up to the player that won the fight to decide if you're dead or not is a good thing however leaves problems since if you're not going to kill someone in a fight dev crit shouldn't take effect however thats another matter entirely.

And those that said they'd RP their characters being traumatized. is in fact nice to hear however at the same time with the ease of death traumatizing your character every time is just going to send them to a mental ward in the sally temple. because of how frequant it happens to players. more than half the players die once of twice at beholders near their last lvls a few more in other areas. It happens far too often to traumatize your character completely and consistantly, this is why I asked if you'll be able to give guidelines to this topic if that was indeed possible and if the guidelines are different from monster death to PvP death.

Also i'd like to add that this isn't really about me it's about seeing if the team of DMs will see an interest in this and maybe come up with some guidelines because of how frequant it happens... just sending the player a tell after leaving it open to player interpertation doesn't help anyone even the DM. All it comes across as that you've told them you don't like how you RP now fix it. which isn't helpful because when sending that you only point out a flaw and not a way to improve it.

That is my avatar but as per usual I do not comment on specific case on the public forums, should you feel unfairly treated use the private message system.

Otherwise I will have to refer to the post above. Those are the arguments for making death matter when facing other players, aka pvp. For the reasons states above that is a lot more important because it reacting with other players.

And if you note I am not saying "every time you get killed you gotta spend 25 days, 2 hours and 26 minutes in the sally temple" I say make it matter, as for how you choose to do that largely depends on the player and how they like it best.

Jay, are players able to express oppinions on this yet?

Taking a DM's ruling to the public forums and purposefully omitting details seems like an attempt to undermine the DM's authority and gain sympathy.

I did not try to unmine anyones authorty or upset anyone with that comment. If i did i apoligise, sincerely. However a DM commented on that they thought it was a player that gave me the comment i merely corrected them and had no intention to upset the Dm involved. I did not find myself judge unfairly i merely though that with the comments made and mine after that I'd make this topic. I am not looking for asympathy i wanted to bring this to question not argue who is right and who is wrong on the subject.

And as for players comments becing welcome... Why not. can't think of a good reason why not.

If you say leave it up to how a player chooses to make it matter to the Rp then fine but that still leaves an awful lot including me at times just clunging a heal pot and getting out of there as soon as possible. only time someone won't drink a heal pot is when they are literially tied up or gagged. as it's then impossible for them to use one. I'm not saying all do that just alot do it. However i've seen Dms while player side get raised after being killed by a spell do nothing more than basically shrug it off and make a witty comment. Now Do i think i was unfiarly judged when i did it, not overly... Just that without guidelines it is always going to happen even the best rp'ers will do it and the worse will. because when you're rich and max lvl you get beaten alot because all you're going to do is get into PvP and join the odd DM story. this is because once you hit 30 theres not much to do... after the lot of times of being beaten you Rp being hurt wounded and in pain..however as it drags on it jsut becomes so much easier to click on the quick slotted heal potion and get out of there.

The reason i bring up DMs making the same mistakes is to prove everyone will do it now and again. Because it jsut happens far too often... now i am repeating myself almost constantly as i continue. But ah well... It'll be nice to see what Players have to say seeming as a few wish to make their own comments on the matter

After watching your rp for a player for some time on lucretia, I believe what you need to incorperate into your RP is a key aspect that can grant others and yourself enjoyment.

Fear, this does not mean you need to tremble before the forces of good or evil. But instead try to realise that allthough you can jump back up over and over again, going back to them should not be the only way to rp. You can however start to avoid groups, areas or individuals and take them on in another aspect. Not PvP not head on.

For example when I played Ray he took on alot of factions, he fell to them on occassions and he learnt defeat. One in particular would be Jud, Ray saught to make this mans life hell. He tortured his wife, he played with there emotions. When Jud beat Ray in combat, Ray resorted to different methods, and again lost.

To stop the tit for tat, I encorporated fear into Rays rp. Allthough he would never have admit it Ray does fear Jud, but not only that he respects him on a sort of Rival level. The rp moved on, and Ray and jud havent seen each other face to face since, and with rays death they never will. However I hold the memory foundly and see it as a better end than perma death.

My point from this is, you dont need to RP being hurt for days(allthough he can help) You dont need to campaign for perma death. What you need to do is have a lasting impression from a loss, and after 10+ deaths through certain actions come to realise there are better routes to take that will hold your reputation in one piece.

Respawning and then walking back to that same spot is a surefire way to make people pissed at you, too.

I had two of my most known characters perma die in battle. One was my drow matron who was slain when her house was attacked, the other Sharina, just last night from wounds she suffered in battle. I would have loved to seen those she in turn fought before not rise after two minutes or even say "burn me as often as you want, but I will always be back" as that often destroyed the whole rp for me, but I have come to the point I just expect it and accept it as what is normal. If someone surprises me positively, I am sure to say to keep that up and thanks for making my day better.

My characters are always hurt for a while after such an episode. Not that I say others should do so too, but I think it keeps the atmosphere of the server more in depth if it were to be more often the case. Its a vicious circle, those who like to play death properly are not as much inclined to do so if everyone else they in turn put down just hop back up on their feet. Though my take is it, if you dont allow your character to be influenced on what happens to them because those you oppose dont do it either, then we are left at the point no one will. At least thats not what I am looking for here.

I've lost two characters now:

Bryce Aldemann died due to severe wounds to the head that basically started to cause his mind to regress to the age of six, unfortunately, the body's muscle memory slowly regressed there too and it couldn't be sustained.

Christophan was poisoned and killed thusly (not as big a spoiler at this point but I'm still not going to details). He was killed by an unexpected, but quite oddly welcome way of being killed, something more clever then simple 'RAWR Me beastial warrior' or what have you.

Vael.. well, I dunno where he's going but he's doing his damndest to survive. *if only because he doesn't want Earylduil or Riia to come after him in Arvandor and say 'Yoink, you ain't done yet boyo'.*

Phearnun wrote:

I had two of my most known characters perma die in battle. One was my drow matron who was slain when her house was attacked, the other Sharina, just last night from wounds she suffered in battle. I would have loved to seen those she in turn fought before not rise after two minutes or even say "burn me as often as you want, but I will always be back" as that often destroyed the whole rp for me, but I have come to the point I just expect it and accept it as what is normal. If someone surprises me positively, I am sure to say to keep that up and thanks for making my day better.

My characters are always hurt for a while after such an episode. Not that I say others should do so too, but I think it keeps the atmosphere of the server more in depth if it were to be more often the case. Its a vicious circle, those who like to play death properly are not as much inclined to do so if everyone else they in turn put down just hop back up on their feet. Though my take is it, if you dont allow your character to be influenced on what happens to them because those you oppose dont do it either, then we are left at the point no one will. At least thats not what I am looking for here.

Amen!

Like some of us said over at POTM; do not play to win, play to survive, play the role, play for fun. Dont play to win.

We lost great characters in Phearnuns characters, which adds to atmopshere. I would give 5 of my chars to see chars of that caliber alive again (Honestly got a few bland chars and some are forgotten anyway)

People need to take the con's bigger then just thinking you can super heal and raise all the time, dont expect that it would happen and RP fear, urges to survive and horror.

Im pretty sure death hurts like hell even if you died before you dont wanna do that all over again.

Feel the damn pain, feel the wounds, heck even get old and worn.

No character is Superman-Batman-Carnage-Anakin, hell most chars would just be that Twi'lek dancing in the bar or the elf hunter who never leave the woods had it not been for the human guy or gal behind them with great ambitions, play the fear of death and it be tons of fun. I promise you!

Budly wrote:

We lost great characters in Phearnuns characters, which adds to atmopshere. I would give 5 of my chars to see chars of that caliber alive again (Honestly got a few bland chars and some are forgotten anyway)

*sagenod* I second that. Sharina was fun! *sniff sniff*

Vowing revenge is something not too uncommon and I've used it several times. It's the Villian's Code, for Pete's sake. However, none of my characters will come right at the same foe that just kicked their butt right away. They're going to go into hiding, avoid said foe at all costs for awhile, get stronger, come up with a new strategy and then go after them on their terms.

Well nobody can tell you how to act your character. Or rather, they can, but there's no guarantee you will accept. It's something you do with trial and improvement, in this case it's improving if your character can be believed to be doing all the stuff they do.

You could always send a Tell if you want to push the limits of what your character should be doing, just this once, and see what the other person says. They may say no, but at least then you can plan accordingly.

It's far better to actually communicate with other characters and their players, even if you don't get along all the time, than to say nothing and be cut off from the flow of events.

I've took to heart the rest of the players comments on the matter. And I'd like to thank the players for thier advise and opinions of the matter.

I'm 100% with Phearnun and Budly.

It certainly ruins the mood when we burn a necro after 2,5 hours of intense roleplay, interrogation, proper execution (in the past, for the reason in discussion) and after 10 minutes of cart riding and all, the character comes back to the spot he was executed to gloat "HAHA! I didn't die, n00bz!"

As Amaya Brenner's player, I've been struggling on how to cope with death on Amia. To me, with Amaya almost being hunted by some people (and a more than healthy dose of her digging her own grave), death is frequent to her at times.

As I experience her death, all I do is click a button and lose some XP and gold or wait for someone to raise dead on her. The penalty is so small that it's hard for me to understand what she went through to properly RP it. Sure, as someone said above, she went to hell and suffered and blah, blah, blah. I try to RP that as much as possible. But what of the players that just have their character hop back to their feet running to escape IC punishment?

I thought, "hey, why not just slap on harsher XP/gold loss?", but then you punish people on unreliable connections. But then an idea hit me: If a character can be flagged as killed in PvP, is there a way to create a script that allows the dead player to be raised in one of two of the following ways?

The first is the subdued method where the character is OOC raised as it is now. They are aware (barely) and can continue to speak, but would be immobile. The immobility might be able to be scripted, but I don't think it needs to be taken that far.

The second is the lethal kill where the character is raised OOCly with severe stat penalties (or some such). The character, for all intents and purposes are dead until the victor (or another character who sneaks in), actually revives them, but they would need to literally limp away from the ability hits (say... -3 or -4 per ability as a just raised dead PC will not be as focused, strong, pretty as one who's just walking by). These penalties will also need to be "healed" via time and not any restorative spell.

This system would also allow discretion upon the victor's part to allow for any disconnects or other fluke accidents. Human judgement would almost always be better than a computer's with NWN. Also, in either case, the killed PC could be flagged so they can't respawn and then come right back to the same location. All this would negate the XP/gold hit, but render the killed PC at the mercy of the victor.

I should also make a side note: While I know people may be able to take advantage of this system to grief other players, my experience thus far on Amia has been very welcoming and while Amaya has picked many fights with characters who vastly outclassed her, almost every single player has been a great sport. I really do trust the lot of the people on this server.

To argue against this idea, however, I must say that it may indeed take away from the art of role playing. It's punishing the people with great skill and imagination in order to reel in the people who would rather "win the game" as budly quoted above.

For a small aside, I'm jacked on NyQuil so I might be a bit off, but I'll be more than happy to clarify anything later on.

I kind of thought this fell under common sense and courtesy.

Dependent on how epic the fight was, one might wish to perma-death their PC?

Some RP being out for a week etc. But no one really nitpicks.

what one should generally avoid is being a jackass. And that means:
Not jumping back after getting a beating for giving lip and then....well giving lip.

Usually the fight is due to a reason. A clash of opinions etc. A paladin demanding the necromancer unsummon the zombie for example. Both disagrees with each other and therefore a fight occurs to decide which path of the fork road the RP should take. The victor is the one that decides the path. In the necromancer's case, its him continuing to waltz without harassment. Its retarded and bad sportsmanship when either one loses and they come back initiating the whole cycle again.

Death at the end of something large. Such as RP'ed torture, or RP'ed Interogation, whatever else, should be followed by a courtesy 2 hour "Don't play this character" period.

This is why I have three or four characters.

I think if people want death taken seriously, then take your own rp seriously and people might.

Sorry, but as I see it, I should not have to subject my character to your whims.

Maybe in fantasy land, everyone is great at rping and all rp leading to and after death is good, and all players play nice and play according to their class, alignment, race, etc.

I have played here a while and I hold no such illusions. You can follow ALL the rules and still not be a good RPr.

If someone negates your death RP then look at your own RP and question why.

How I avoid bad rprs who get up and walk off is I give them a decent death and have a good reason to attack.

The exceptions are when i run into pvp fanatics so much i get jumpy on the attack.

Just today I attacked someone I honestly thought was animal empathying my animals. I killed them and they got upset without hosteling because I thought they empathyd without hosteling. But we talked it out and everything went fine.

No death, ooc handshake. a good day

Quote:

I think if people want death taken seriously, then take your own rp seriously and people might.

Sorry, but as I see it, I should not have to subject my character to your whims.

These two sentences completely and directly contradict each other.

Tormy you are so right. Let me rephrase that second part:

I should not have to subject my character to your whims....IF your RP is trashy and mundane bland garbage, worth one thumb down....down my throat. Now if there is some depth I am all game. My character still bares scars to this day from the good stuff.

In case anyone missed it a couple months ago please read the following links and drop the whole death thing.....again

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43647&highlight=

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43830&highlight=

Anything that is dependent on another persons perception of something fails though Geld. Because what you consider garbage, might be top of the line RP to the person doing it, they simply might not have the skill to produce much else.

When I killed Sharina off, I many individuals of this community were upset with me and I talked over them a long time via msn. The reason for it was because permadeath is meaningful, and some felt that I gave people on the opposing side a real victory when they always just returned after death instantly and played no consequences themselves, something I call the Valas Syndrome. I told them I did not wish to be part of this flawed system of becomming a "Valas" myself.

But I found out permadeath is not really meaningful soon after it, unlike with my first matron who died perma. IC if you dont return but you actually die, you are perceived to be weak. It does not matter how many times I pvped the person or burned them, they never really died, she did. I was slightly disappointed at those reactions. Someone even wanted to raise her as an undead and asked me, I told them it could be done if they accept perma-death if the kellies would find him. The reaction was: "I am not stupid and of course will not allow perma-death". People want to have fun without putting themselves in danger.

Budly put it in a way I think is really the point of it all: "do not play to win, play to survive, play the role, play for fun. Dont play to win." For me, amia does not do this. It is composed mainly of people who play to win, and do not want to face any consequences. Now dont get me wrong, I am stating my subjective opinion here, and I do not hold a grudge against the community or I would not still spend hours in the toolset for you guys. I am just stating this is one of the reasons I personally lost interrest in the roleplay of this server.

DM Edit, please keep specific incidents out of the forum.
- Maias

Remove the last paragraph Phearun since it refers to a specfic event, and you have a rather nice post.

Scimiter wrote:

In case anyone missed it a couple months ago please read the following links and drop the whole death thing.....again

Things like these -must- be discussed on a monthly basis, else they tend to get forgotten.

Actually I am glad you feel that way.

Now I can finally put this crap to rest once and for all....

And make a very good point. Ask.

No specific incidents.
- Maias

Specific situations are bad

Wut!? Sharina is dead? Permadead? Hear my words, Phear, your sacrifice will not go in vain. I agree with you 100%, and heck, I shall be one of those who actually learn something from this. Not many are ready to kill off a famous character of theirs just for the sake of RP, but since you had the balls to do it, twice, I think I can, too, if need be. You have convinced me.

I know in most cases specific incidents should not be mentioned, but this gets to the very core of the WORST problem of amia....lack o communication between players.

You want players to take stuff serious? Show consideration and they might.

Edited
-Maias

Geld.

::Facepalms::

This forum is not for specific incidents, Selvec already nudged Gabe about it, so edit that post a little else we'll have a lock upon the thread.

--------------
Regarding Death.

:idea:

There's a vast gap between how much time each player spends on their toon, and this causes different levels of affection. Now, if each character would die as Sharina did the server would be awesome.
But it's entirely up to the player if they feel "Ready" for it. It's like maturity, it comes by age.

If I have to edit more posts I'll close the thread. Its a clear established rule. Don't bring up specific incidents on the forum.

Maias227 wrote:

I'll close the thread.

Epic foreshadowing.

Very, if you can read you will note who initiated the specific incident first.

Your facepalm towards me and praise towards the actual offender to whos act you are facepalming at me for, clearly shows your elitist, clicque attitude, the other worst problem of amia....excuse me if i do not applaud you for it.

I believe a large problem is that the statements given by many are made without a good faith basis to what they believe themselves. They do not want consequences to their characters, so they seek an excuse not to give into them, often fabricating statements that have no real relevance even. The fact they just want to win is cloaked by some self-righteous rant, be it their characters cant feel pain, fear, doubt or even be affected by death.

If you look at many stories those things are really what brings depth to them. Boromir's ending would not be tragic if he got up after two minutes saying "damn, thanks. Here is 2k for the scroll." Now, I don't expect everyone to perma their characters because I did, god forbid, but some consequences would breathe more life into the fantasy world of amia. Do a Faramir or Eowyn and need to stay at the houses of healing for a while. Or even if your evil, a ring wraith and wait until your strength returns after you have been smacked.

Many players perma characters for various reasons. I permad Arach long ago and never looked back. I did it because I was personally frustrated, so expect no praise from me on permaing, I expect to see another clone soon.

As for my character, I play someone who is known for being old and long lived and I feel I am good at it.

Furthermore most cases I have issues with people who seem to throw off this vibe of "He thinks he is so smart."

I will not cater to those players or their moblike friends.

One day Quar will die....but as it stands, Quar is one of the only characters that is still around, when all others died, and their supposedly loyal players up and left.

To create a good death, since it is the victimizers resposibility, as a player or character, ask the victim.

Ask them what they are willing TO DO, and then start from there...you will find your rp will mean more.

I'm with Phearnun. Things get stale if people don't die.

Phearnun's PC organized the assassination of my PC years ago, and it was for good. Then, my other PC murdered that PC a year or so from that. (I need to get her bloody cloak redescriptioned and give it to someone!) It just felt so much more satisfying to me, and hopefully everyone involved, than simply retiring a character or falling from power but clinging on would have.

So I can only encourage you to do it more. Not because others tell you to, but because it's more fun. I tell you, nothing feels cheaper than bringing Kir'nack or Kalliniel out these days. They're four and a half years old; they should have died already. (Open to volunteers who want to kill Kir'nack, btw!)

Yeah but there is no problem with that. People have and did perma their characters....all of them.

As for me...I will continue to RP an ancient long lived thing...my character will wander and know what others do not know.

I do a pretty good job doing it correctly with the exceptions of people who run up and say *chops your head off!*, *disfigures you permanently...haha...surprise!*, or/and "tell: Trust me." *marches you off to be permakilled without your knowledge or consent to throw it in as a surprise, thus breaking any trust you now have in said player and wishing you never met them in the first place*

Then of course I NEVER take serious the Lolthite priestesses/EO/Other fanatics/Fanatic Rangers/Druids/paladins...

...who are actually players who wish to release some tension or get a hard on off the violence or what not. If I did I wouldn't have made it past lvl 2!

Tell me, has anyone actually stayed a lvl 2 for a long time in a drow Lolthite city before, full of hormonal evil teenagers behind the screen? It is very enlightening.

Now....time and again I sucked it up and took it and what not....but eventually it grows old and sickening and tiresome. I've been playing so long I can see the obvious excuses made to attack my character AND others.

BTW Good guys.....yeah...we have few...I beg about ninety percent of the playerbase who plays good to please.....be real about it and get your alignments to match your actions, not your internal reasonings. Being good doesn't mean you get to slaughter someone because they are evil.

My character at this point falls into something I perceive as well....old. That's the point. When will I perma kill him? Guess?

How about.....when Amia the server no longer functions....unless other circumstances prevent me.

But in the end I will play an old character who knows a lot, and has stories and can say things like : "In the days of the Horde there was much turmoil....attacks were frequent then..with all manner of creatures assaulting a much smaller and weaker Cordor" *puffs his pipe casually*....and it's true!

I like that. Some don't....but then that might be something more personally related....whatever. I'm here for the players/and their characters that do like it and that I like. I'm certainly not going to perma my character for a player/s that I already do not trust and I realize I simply don't enjoy RPing with.

When I run out of goals...yeah..then I'll have him perma'd...but right now I find that unlikely to happen anytime soon as he just reached a turning point akin to a new life. I'm not going to kill him off now that I have so many plans, even if they don't come to fruition.

At this point me killing my character woul be a let down to all the players I am currently heavily in RP with. I've had plenty of plans denied by the dms and I'm fine with that, but I am not going to perma my character with nothing to show for it in the end, but the personal enjoyment of players/characters I don't even like.

Sorry everyone seems like they want to scream "Permadeath!Permadeath!" But I think I'll think outside the box and keep mine going...for a very long time.

Half agree with that Iron. Things get stale if /big and important people/ don't die every now and then. Someone like Sharina or say Xavi dying causes big changes in plotlines on the server but has anyone heard of a elven ranger named Celub and would anyone mark his passing save his wife and child? Doubt it. Sure there are dozens of PCs that are made and then "die" each month cause they weren't a good build or good RP but those don't count of course.

I think the reason that alot of people don't kill off a PC that they like is not /entirely/ cause that they do like them. I think it's cause they're not big enough to go out with a bang.

"Shining brightly, even for a instant, is far better then a life that never glows"

Scimiter wrote:

I think the reason that alot of people don't kill off a PC that they like is not /entirely/ cause that they do like them. I think it's cause they're not big enough to go out with a bang.

Agreed. Those chances seem few enough. Therefore I think it's good to jump at them when the opportunity presents itself. Ideally, it's a conflict with two sides who're both prepared to either reap the sweet fruits of victory or bite the bullet and accept any consequences of failure.

@ Scimter

I agree with you, however perma-death is not the only alternative to not having death effect you at all. You can play psychological problems ranging from fear of that street, the person that killed you, to withdrawing for a while because of it. You can play physical problems from health issues, scars, to losing a leg like Lyle Torrowfire or losing an eye.

@ Geld Yaztran

You are going way off topic here. Perhaps split the topic if you really wish to discuss the groups you seem never to take seriously and think are bad at rp like the so called fanatic druids, kelemvorites and paladins and you can accuse them of wishing to release some tensions through computer game violence somewhere where one can reply without de-railing this thread.

Death (This is for DMs)

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