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Merrien
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 Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 18:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Neso wrote: Possibly lots of frustration, especially for those who do not like to RP.
....or for those who like to remember it's a game and supposed to fun. Come on, don't bash.
As for the taxation idea, ...I pay taxes IRL... I SO don't want to see that in a game.
I don't really mind costs for repairing equipment, but Selmak, you know I love you, right? omg, I hate the idea of charging gold for killing monsters, lol. _________________ 
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Neso
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 18:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Merrien wrote: Neso wrote: Possibly lots of frustration, especially for those who do not like to RP. ....or for those who like to remember it's a game and supposed to fun. Come on, don't bash. As for the taxation idea, ...I pay taxes IRL... I SO don't want to see that in a game. I don't really mind costs for repairing equipment, but Selmak, you know I love you, right? omg, I hate the idea of charging gold for killing monsters, lol. Yes, it is a game. And yes, in that same game, there are mechanics to punish you for dying. And because of raise dead scrolls being so easily acquirable, those mechanics do not get used very often, which is a shame, because they were put there to make the game more, as you put it, "fun".
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Neso wrote: Remove raise dead scrolls.
Edit:
Maybe I should elaborate. Without raise dead scrolls, you get:
1.) More risk in fighting monsters, which is what most seem to want.
2.) Encouraging roleplay. Somebody died? Go find a priest.
4.) Possibly lots of frustration, especially for those who do not like to RP.
5) Everyone who doesn't live in American peak is royally screwed
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Neso
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Yurell wrote: 5) Everyone who doesn't live in American peak is royally screwed
This argument is very tiring, and I do not buy it. I've been logged on every possible hour of the day (Maybe your day has more hours? :O), and there are always people on.
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Neso wrote: Yurell wrote: 5) Everyone who doesn't live in American peak is royally screwed This argument is very tiring, and I do not buy it. I've been logged on every possible hour of the day (Maybe your day has more hours? :O), and there are always people on. I've seen it recently get down to about 20 people. 20 people ... take out those who are out of your range or disinterested in hunting (or on the other server) and you may find one that is willing to hunt with you.
Cross fingers and hope that that one is a cleric, and not another person crossing their own fingers?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Merrien
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 20:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Neso wrote: Merrien wrote: Neso wrote: Possibly lots of frustration, especially for those who do not like to RP. ....or for those who like to remember it's a game and supposed to fun. Come on, don't bash. As for the taxation idea, ...I pay taxes IRL... I SO don't want to see that in a game. I don't really mind costs for repairing equipment, but Selmak, you know I love you, right? omg, I hate the idea of charging gold for killing monsters, lol. Yes, it is a game. And yes, in that same game, there are mechanics to punish you for dying. And because of raise dead scrolls being so easily acquirable, those mechanics do not get used very often, which is a shame, because they were put there to make the game more, as you put it, "fun". I know I've respawned an AWFUL lot of times, lol. I don't consider that part of the game "fun," so much as fair. As far as raise scrolls go, I figure it's hit or miss if someone gets to me or not; I don't lie in the entryway dead though... that's just me. But I reveal my non-lawful alignment here when I say let people play like they want. Only enough rules to keep it as fun for everyone as possible and no more than that. _________________
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Yurell wrote: Neso wrote: Yurell wrote: 5) Everyone who doesn't live in American peak is royally screwed This argument is very tiring, and I do not buy it. I've been logged on every possible hour of the day (Maybe your day has more hours? :O), and there are always people on. I've seen it recently get down to about 20 people. 20 people ... take out those who are out of your range or disinterested in hunting (or on the other server) and you may find one that is willing to hunt with you. Cross fingers and hope that that one is a cleric, and not another person crossing their own fingers? Mmm... Concur with my full heart. it's harder as an european.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Or a Kiwi/Aussie ... middle of the working day for the Europeans and too late at night for the Americans.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Mar 08 2010, 21:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Xaviera wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Having more money doesn't automatically mean you live extravagantly. Torin is a millionaire and lives in a room in an inn. He has almost no living expenses. No, it doesnt automatically mean it, but there's a high correlation.  Those who dont may spend their money tithing to their church (monks, paladins, clerics) or faction, giving to worthy causes, supporting indigent family members, etc. Plus there are everyday costs for clothing, food, etc. There's plenty to spend money on without living extravagantly. But more than a few don't. Which means they don't have the outcome, which means they are sitting on their monet.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Jyro X
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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The key to fixing the economy isn't to implement further annoyance at the death system. It's too negative of a "fix."
A few ideas for fixing the economy, since that seems to be what this topic has changed to: - Spending Caps on -all- Merchants.
- Optional Gold Sinks:
Donating money to your church/deity in increments of 100k+ for a 0.5% chance at a Divine Mythal.
Gambling House (after it's fixed).
Gold trade-in rewards program.Buy placeable widgets for 100k+ that normally cost 1DC per PLC. (allows people to save their DCs for big DC requests they really really want as well as serving as a minor gold sink)
Various other ideas pertaining to this nature. - Significantly higher prices for building projects.
- Charge gold for appropriate DC requests:
Weapons/armors - charge the gold for the mythals that would be used to craft the item in addition to the DC cost.
_________________  
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Gwah you posted it in both topics:
Yurell wrote: Spending Caps mean those who are currently rich stay rich, and those who aren't stay poor.
Optional gold sinks have the problem of being optional, and I'm not sure how effective that would be at removing gold.
Higher Building Prices just means people farm to get the gold -the gold in the economy stays roughly the same, people just now have to go out and get extra.
Charging gold for DC items just means goldfarming to get the items. Plus I'm against it on a moral 'It's a DC Item' level.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Jyro X wrote: Not pennies to someone who barely ever sees more than 400k. Not -everyone- spends their days boss-hunting and if they manage to garner up some small amount of what they consider to be a fortune, they shouldn't lose it in an instant due to lag or a mis-click.
That said, 40k is a reasonable cap. All the talk of raising it/removing it/docking levels, etc is just ridiculous. It serves no purpose other than to be an annoyance. There are much better ways to solve the economic problems of Amia and annoying the players with forced regulations is not one of the better ways.
I don't know about you, but I barely ever hunt and I easily hit a million.
Even my Salandran, who is a pacifist, hit a million easily.
And the misclick wouldn't cause them to lose their fortune, merely a tenth of it.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Jyro X
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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Yurell wrote: Jyro X wrote: Not pennies to someone who barely ever sees more than 400k. Not -everyone- spends their days boss-hunting and if they manage to garner up some small amount of what they consider to be a fortune, they shouldn't lose it in an instant due to lag or a mis-click.
That said, 40k is a reasonable cap. All the talk of raising it/removing it/docking levels, etc is just ridiculous. It serves no purpose other than to be an annoyance. There are much better ways to solve the economic problems of Amia and annoying the players with forced regulations is not one of the better ways. I don't know about you, but I barely ever hunt and I easily hit a million. Even my Salandran, who is a pacifist, hit a million easily. And the misclick wouldn't cause them to lose their fortune, merely a tenth of it. I hardly ever hunt and the most I've ever had at any one time is 700k.
I don't see the bad economic problem. If it's not hard to hit 1 million, why all the fuss? Everyone can do it apparently. That puts everyone on a fairly equal playing field as far as I can see. _________________
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Jyro X wrote: Yurell wrote: Edit: moved it to the other topic. You're not going to fix the "the rich stay rich" without completely upsetting the playerbase in general. That's something you're gonna have to come to terms with. How much of the playerbase has over 400k gold? We need more information for that. On top of that, there are people who have well over this amount who support it as a risk/reward scheme. Jyro X wrote: The only truly effective means would be to implement the changes and then do a vault-wipe. That's not gonna happen. So, this idea of redistribution of wealth, while a nice ideal, is not very realistic. What's going to end up happening is the have-nots still have-not and the rich get poorer.
I don't see how that's enjoyable for -anyone-.
True that the most thorough way is a vault wipe, that said a patch is still better than nothing.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Jyro X wrote: Yurell wrote: Jyro X wrote: Not pennies to someone who barely ever sees more than 400k. Not -everyone- spends their days boss-hunting and if they manage to garner up some small amount of what they consider to be a fortune, they shouldn't lose it in an instant due to lag or a mis-click.
That said, 40k is a reasonable cap. All the talk of raising it/removing it/docking levels, etc is just ridiculous. It serves no purpose other than to be an annoyance. There are much better ways to solve the economic problems of Amia and annoying the players with forced regulations is not one of the better ways. I don't know about you, but I barely ever hunt and I easily hit a million. Even my Salandran, who is a pacifist, hit a million easily. And the misclick wouldn't cause them to lose their fortune, merely a tenth of it. I hardly ever hunt and the most I've ever had at any one time is 700k. I don't see the bad economic problem. If it's not hard to hit 1 million, why all the fuss? Everyone can do it apparently. That puts everyone on a fairly equal playing field as far as I can see. Hitting a million is generally in the levelling process for me.
Beyond that, however, have you seen the price of many epic items? A million doesn't even begin to cover it.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Jyro X
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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Yurell wrote: Jyro X wrote: Yurell wrote: Jyro X wrote: Not pennies to someone who barely ever sees more than 400k. Not -everyone- spends their days boss-hunting and if they manage to garner up some small amount of what they consider to be a fortune, they shouldn't lose it in an instant due to lag or a mis-click.
That said, 40k is a reasonable cap. All the talk of raising it/removing it/docking levels, etc is just ridiculous. It serves no purpose other than to be an annoyance. There are much better ways to solve the economic problems of Amia and annoying the players with forced regulations is not one of the better ways. I don't know about you, but I barely ever hunt and I easily hit a million. Even my Salandran, who is a pacifist, hit a million easily. And the misclick wouldn't cause them to lose their fortune, merely a tenth of it. I hardly ever hunt and the most I've ever had at any one time is 700k. I don't see the bad economic problem. If it's not hard to hit 1 million, why all the fuss? Everyone can do it apparently. That puts everyone on a fairly equal playing field as far as I can see. Hitting a million is generally in the levelling process for me. Beyond that, however, have you seen the price of many epic items? A million doesn't even begin to cover it. Why should someone have access to epic items if they can't afford them or can't earn them?
They aren't an epic character if they're not doing epic deeds to acquire epic items. That's my take on that.
This whole idea of everyone on Amia being some extremely uber semi demi-god status fairytale hero with epic legendary armors and weapons is quite childish to myself. I play my monk as a rather "humble" (if I may say so) assassin/guard. He's not delusional with thoughts of being epic or legendary. He performs his duties and is faithful to his brothers, sisters, and deity.
Why should every twat that swings a sword around deserve legendary recognition? Especially if he can't even -earn- that recognition or even afford the items to earn him "epic" status. Just because you -want- a legendary/epic character doesn't mean you get one just because you can click a few buttons to create a character in NWN. _________________
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Inflation becomes a problem when it happens too fast (which it isn't really) or the wealth becomes segregated and tiered.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 8:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Epic/legendary status isn't earned with items or levels. Forget about the PnP scale of power here, we've gone past that years ago.
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Selmak
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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You know, this discussion does not change the fact that despite coming up with measures that could make the game less of a Monty Haul, you're unwilling to actually implement them. You've been sitting on your hands for years on this one, partly because of this twaddle about the haves and have-nots.
Pshaw.
You would be doing everyone a favour if money was rapidly flowing out of the economy rather than inward. When it is difficult to hoard in-game currency and you can't therefore have much of it, it regains its value and purpose. People actually use it rather than lose it.
You've already identified the problem of having so much gold that characters don't know what to do with it. It trivialises the difficulties faced by a given character. To make things challenging again, you must make it difficult to hold onto the GP.
That assumes that you actually want Amia to challenge the average player, if you don't then hell, just give a hundred thousand gold every time a lowbie sells a piece of level 5 loot. Then there won't be any have-nots, there'll just be the haves and the ludicrous haves.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 11:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Losing money every time you kill something is not the solution. That's not how adventuring expenses work.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Xaviera
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Posted: Tue, Mar 09 2010, 14:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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So put in a system to simulate day-to-day maintenance & expenditures, which everyone has.
That rare PC who is so frugal as to not have any expenses can just stick his 5 million in the bank and hover between 40 - 90K cash-on-hand, which is the balance point for an epic in the system I proposed earlier.
Dont forget, it still takes a RL year or more (>1600 hrs) for these expenses to eat away your 10 million gold if you keep it in your pocket, so there's plenty of time to go out and run the Abyss a few times to build it back up if you want.
_________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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