AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Dev Disco wrote:

Said it before: gold cap. It doesn't make much sense to have more than 1-2 million gold in cash.

Then people will horde items.

The server dreams of a magic bag restriction.

Still,you're then encouraging people to horde items, which can't be good for character file sizes.

Hoarding items is done anyway, and gold is just too convenient.

Dev Disco wrote:

Why don't we do this:

You die, and a timer is set on you. Say 10 minutes.

A raise within this timer means no penalty.

A raise without this timer means a penalty.

You make sure that this timer is server specific. When you swap servers there's no timer, when you wait till next reset there's no timer. When you log out and wait 10 minutes you'll be placed in the entry (that's already happening) and your timer will have ran out as well.

You could even say you get half the penalty on a raise after the 10 minutes if you want to diversify the options. Then you can choose to continue straight away and take the full hit, or sit it out and hope for a raise in the entry at 50% damage.

there's a thought.

I agree, build it into the mechanics of the server and there is no argument. No need for discussion, it just is :shock:

Dev Disco wrote:

Said it before: gold cap. It doesn't make much sense to have more than 1-2 million gold in cash.

I have absolutely no complaints about DMs choking the economy. I'd welcome a DM presence there actually. Beyond Yos selling items for billions and billions <_<

(That was me teasing to all you watching at home.)

gandlin wrote:

there's a thought.

I agree, build it into the mechanics of the server and there is no argument. No need for discussion, it just is :shock:

Naww the Dm's like to allow discussions of controversial topics, usually, instead of just adding it. Helps server spirit and all that wonderful stuff. :wink:

After the topic is discussed, then they do it. *nodnod*

Last edited by Dwagin on Sun, Mar 07 2010, 10:53 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Nekhy wrote:

The server dreams of a magic bag restriction.

I also see no reason for more than 6 bags of holding for the vast majority of players. I can think of a handful which theoretically 'need' more. But that is just to fulfill what they do as merchants.

I see no reason for gold beyond 10,000,000gp.

I say this as an owner of a pc with many more than 10. Cap it at 10 mil.

Raise gold on death cap to 100,000.

I'm fine with that.

There are reasons for beyond 2 million, and has mostly to deal with merchants dealing in in game adventurer loot.

No man. Have you ever tried to hire enough assassins to take out an entire guild? THAT Cost me more than 10 million, EASILY.

In game RP based costs would likely be adjusted accordingly likely.

Right, now to play Crysis and get killed by Koreans...

I don't like the idea of a cap, because once people hit it gold is worthless - you can only pay them in epic items if they want payment.

Adding a gold cap means that the player economy would become bastardized when it comes to trading items, or 'sharing the wealth', etcetera.

Auctions would become a game of Whoever Bids (Gold Cap) First. Guaranteed win for any auction.

But that will break because the recieving party is also capped at gold, thus turning gold from 'poorly done' to 'non existant'. Therefore Gold will simply become an intermediary process between "Sell Loot to Merchant" and "Purchase Trade Good".

Next thing you know, people just trade in Heal Potions, or some other mainstream commodity that isn't capped.

If you then cap inventories, it makes player trading completely useless outside of the fact that only the Epic Loot Farmers will get what the want, since the only viable way to trade will be a 1 - 1 item trade. If you cap only specific items, you're going to lose - people will just change items to use as a tradable object in the place of gold, quicker than you can update the server to limit them.

And no one's going to trade their +5 Fortification for a Blank Page.

The issue is that gold is too easy to gain - and impossible to lose. Any 'Caps' are ultimately very poorly performed means of handling the issue.

The Player Economy right now may be absolutely boned; but getting rid of it is an extremely ineffective solution. Which this will do.

There was a cool (well i think cool) idea a while back of having this system of donating gold to the church of your diety and possibly getting some kind of item reward if your lucky. This could be expanded somewhat. Donate 1 million and you may get a divine mythal or something.

Obviously its only an idea but it may help reduce some of the gold in the server.

Gold Cap? Na. To choke the economy.....Whats wrong with ramping up NPC Merchant Appraise Scores and/or giving them a Tristana-esque Buy Cap?

That will reduce the amount of gold arriving in PCs pockets. Wont do away with whats already there, but that will drift away in time as the super rich spend it away on the auctions that take their fancy.

A negative flow economy only hurts the havenots.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Gold Cap? Na. To choke the economy.....Whats wrong with ramping up NPC Merchant Appraise Scores and/or giving them a Tristana-esque Buy Cap?

That will reduce the amount of gold arriving in PCs pockets. Wont do away with whats already there, but that will drift away in time as the super rich spend it away on the auctions that take their fancy.

Means instead of going to high level areas which take effort, I just grind lowbie areas since I don't get more money anyway, but do it double as fast.

Dwagin wrote:

I see no reason for gold beyond 10,000,000gp.

If there is no reason, why bother at all?
10m or 100m, it's just a vanity issue.

Dwagin wrote:

A negative flow economy only hurts the havenots.

pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth
Just another case of one vs the other.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Dwagin wrote:

I see no reason for gold beyond 10,000,000gp.

If there is no reason, why bother at all?
10m or 100m, it's just a vanity issue.

Dwagin wrote:

A negative flow economy only hurts the havenots.

pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth
Just another case of one vs the other.

forgive me if i start laughing at one of the most greedy chars on the server quoting deadly sins

If the economy eats more money than comes into it new characters and new players are screwed.

Lets not make this into more than a logical discourse. I have no inclination to entreat anything else.

Kraniumbrud wrote:

forgive me if i start laughing at one of the most greedy chars on the server quoting deadly sins

You are forgiven, my son.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

There was a cool (well i think cool) idea a while back of having this system of donating gold to the church of your diety and possibly getting some kind of item reward if your lucky. This could be expanded somewhat. Donate 1 million and you may get a divine mythal or something.

Obviously its only an idea but it may help reduce some of the gold in the server.

A 1% chance for a Divine Mythal. I like this idea. It's like -actual- gambling.

Dwagin wrote:

If the economy eats more money than comes into it new characters and new players are screwed.

What's all this talk about the economy anyway?
Heal potions have been 3000 since forever.
Raise scrolls have been 5000 since forever.
New loot drops can be sold for between 100-200k a pop.
If anything, new players are able to build wealth faster.

I've played elsewhere with gold caps. It just makes gold absolutely valueless and transfers all wealth to items.

Which is where gold has its real value anyway; the ability to use it as a medium of exchange for epic gear. Taking that ability away will ultimately not solve anything other than forcing players to find another medium.

Last edited by Xaviera on Tue, Aug 10 2010, 13:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Time to resurrect my suggestion for a taxation system (modified from a previous thread): :wink:

Every hour you are logged in to Amia, you are taxed 1% of the cash you have on your PC for living and other expenses. You also earn 1 gp / level^2 due to miscellaneous investments.

Under this scheme, if you never acquire any money from any other source, you will eventually stabilize at 100 * level^2 gp (90K gp for a 30th level, 12.5K gp for a 5th level). However, this will take some time - at least 1400 logged hours if you start with 10x that amount, and 1673 hrs if you start with 100x that amount. So a 30th level character with 10M gp who plays Amia full time (35 logged hrs/wk) will still take 11 months to get down to 90K (18 months if you only play 3 hrs/day). And if that character spends only one of those hours each week hunting and makes 100K per excursion, they will stabilize at a threshold of 330 - 430K after 1540 hrs or 10 months of full-time gaming.

If this is implemented, I recommend it be done in conjunction with a banking service through Morgan & Sons to allow storage of extra cash. If you arbitrarily set the maximum you can bank at 5M gp per PC this means you will need several PCs working together to do big things like building faction areas. There might also be a small fee to deposit or withdraw from the bank (1% of the amount added or taken away) to discourage frequent transactions.

You can then also remove the gold cap on respawn. :twisted:

You could also impose a tax of 1 gp per item (or stack) in inventory (for maintenance & upkeep) per logged hour to discourage item hoarding. The lower limit on a character's cash on hand would then drop to ( level^2 - #items ) * 100, or 40K for a 30th level with 500 items. It would still take the same amount of time to reach that minimum.

The upside is that it takes money out of the economy. Neutrally, it will encourage characters to stick cash and items into the banking system. The downside is that powergrinders dominate the auction scene because they can go out and make 10M gold in a few hours when an uber item comes on the market, though it might set an effective limit on cash prices (of whatever the bank capacity is) and encourage item trades - which, in fact, is no different than the current system

except that it reduces the overall amount of cash in the game (which is generally seen as desirable).

(The numbers can be tinkered with a bit. I dont like the idea of giving more for 'earnings' and increasing the tax rate makes money disappear more rapidly, obviously. You could perhaps impose a floor on the taxes, but I dont think it should be level-based, and being able to bank cash does effectively the same thing.)

I have also voiced my support for a modification to the deity system that allows you to make donations to your god. Not sure quite what it would do beyond weekly postings of relative power and bragging rights?

or possibly a small bonus to prayers (+1 to hit, AC & saves?) for worshippers of the top 5 deities in any given week.

To summarize:

Wealth tax: 1% of cash on hand per logged hour
Income: Level^2 gp per logged hour
Maintenance & upkeep: 1 gp/item (or stack) in inventory per logged hour
Banking fees: 1% of transaction amount

Inflation on Amia: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22999

Amian economy - worth adjusting?: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30354

Utterly sick prices: [topic no longer available]

The (gold) economy and epic loots
The threads pointed out by XXX are over a year old. If anyone of you have been following the markets, you will notice that the prices for epic items have remained stable for the past year.

One might also have noticed a drop in prices for some items such as Perfect Mythals, from 3.0 million last work year to an average of 2.5 million this quarter.

The flavour for these few months will be the new loots.
They will hit the auction boards frequently until everyone figures out they are in the lootbins or the market is saturated with them.

This trend is expected pass before the end of June, much like the BoT page wave that hit the market, some time back.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you need epic loot, you fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. Boss farmer
2. Avid PvPer
3. Hardcore Powerbuilder

And chances are you can already get the loot you need from your circle of likeminded players.

If you're really here for RP, you don't need gold or epic loot.
Your currency is in DCs.
If someone would post a list of the top 20 DC earners, I'm sure some blood will be spilled :lol:

EDIT: removed dashes

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

The (gold) economy and epic loots
The threads pointed out by XXX are over a year old. If anyone of you have been following the markets, you will notice that the prices for epic items have remained stable for the past year.

One might also have noticed a drop in prices for some items such as Perfect Mythals, from 3.0 million last work year to an average of 2.5 million this quarter.

The flavour for these few months will be the new loots.
They will hit the auction boards frequently until everyone figures out they are in the lootbins or the market is saturated with them.

This trend is expected pass before the end of June, much like the BoT page wave that hit the market, some time back.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you need epic loot, you fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. Boss farmer
2. Avid PvPer
3. Hardcore Powerbuilder

And chances are you can already get the loot you need from your circle of likeminded players.

If you're really here for RP, you don't need gold or epic loot.
Your currency is in DCs.
If someone would post a list of the top 20 DC earners, I'm sure some blood will be spilled :lol:

I don't like the insinuation that those three categories of people never earn DC's. That's like saying they never RP on the roleplaying server.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If you need epic loot, you fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. Boss farmer
2. Avid PvPer
3. Hardcore Powerbuilder

And chances are you can already get the loot you need from your circle of likeminded players.

If you're really here for RP, you don't need gold or epic loot.
Your currency is in DCs.

I quite agree. I dont even bother to read auction notices. If I really want something, I can buy it with DCs.

The epic loot exchange will remain pretty much as is, being traded amongst those who already routinely dip into the high-end lootbins.

My suggestions were made solely to address the cash glut in the module and to propose a system in which it would be all right to remove the gold cap on respawn.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

The (gold) economy and epic loots
The threads pointed out by XXX are over a year old. If anyone of you have been following the markets, you will notice that the prices for epic items have remained stable for the past year.

One might also have noticed a drop in prices for some items such as Perfect Mythals, from 3.0 million last work year to an average of 2.5 million this quarter.

The flavour for these few months will be the new loots.
They will hit the auction boards frequently until everyone figures out they are in the lootbins or the market is saturated with them.

This trend is expected pass before the end of June, much like the BoT page wave that hit the market, some time back.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you need epic loot, you fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. Boss farmer
2. Avid PvPer
3. Hardcore Powerbuilder

And chances are you can already get the loot you need from your circle of likeminded players.

If you're really here for RP, you don't need gold or epic loot.
Your currency is in DCs.
If someone would post a list of the top 20 DC earners, I'm sure some blood will be spilled :lol:

What, so this means -you-, dramatic prince, Never,ever, bother to write anything at all, in character?
You do realise how ridiculous that sound? Of course you got a dozen Dc's and shiploads of gold. because you CAN Have both at the same time.

---------------

Back on track.
Why on earth do you need to be a powerbuild, bossfarmer or pvper...
You don't think people just ENJOY to see their toons fortified with the best of the best?

Very_Svensk wrote:

You do realise how ridiculous that sound? Of course you got a dozen Dc's and shiploads of gold. because you CAN Have both at the same time.

You're weird. I never said you can't have both. If you only knew how DC rich some of these people were, you might be screaming hax too.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Why on earth do you need to be a powerbuild, bossfarmer or pvper...
You don't think people just ENJOY to see their toons fortified with the best of the best?

No, I said only those categories of people NEED epic loots because they want to maximise the way their toons were built.

If you're having them for you're enjoyment, then it's just a frill, not a need.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

You do realise how ridiculous that sound? Of course you got a dozen Dc's and shiploads of gold. because you CAN Have both at the same time.

You're weird. I never said you can't have both. If you only knew how DC rich some of these people were, you might be screaming hax too.

Yeah, Never said we can't. But you deliberately excluded that from your post. Hence you insinuate something, no?

When I die, I lay there until I'm found or I come back later in life.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Yeah, Never said we can't. But you deliberately excluded that from your post. Hence you insinuate something, no?

I don't get what you're digging at either. Perhaps you could try to be less vague?
How can one deliberately exclude something from a statement when it was not intended to be part of the original statement.

Currently, if you kill monsters you get XP and a little bit of gold.

This little bit of gold is well-meaning and intended to help out new characters but when it gets added up over four hours and multiplied by whomever is killing monsters, it's a slow and steady trickle into the economy. What you should be doing is reversing the polarity

and taking money out of the economy.

In other words, charge characters gold for the necessary expenses of adventuring on the spot instead of giving away gold for each kill. The higher the level of the thing(s) you've killed, the more you get charged. The more people in your party, the less monetary burden there is on each individual. If anyone runs out of gold, the XP stops until someone has unloaded their loot for some more GP.

Note that, even if you don't earn any XP (because you're max level or the party levels are too far apart) you'll still be charged as though you had earned XP.

It seems counter-intuitive. However, it also has the virtue of being simple. No messing about with adventurer ration packs, and no trips to the smithy to get your gear repaired. The amount of taxation would be, over the long term, proportionate to your adventuring activity and the value of the loot you're likely to get.

P.S. All those dashes stretch the page way too much.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Dwagin wrote:

If the economy eats more money than comes into it new characters and new players are screwed.

What's all this talk about the economy anyway?
Heal potions have been 3000 since forever.
Raise scrolls have been 5000 since forever.
New loot drops can be sold for between 100-200k a pop.
If anything, new players are able to build wealth faster.

New players need access to those supplies, so they need to be cheap enough. Older players have virtually limitless amount of money when it comes to supplies (once you hit a million gold you don't even notice the Heal Potions or Raise Scrolls).

Xaviera wrote:

[On taxation]

I'm not particularly fond of the taxation idea, it simply means that you have to constantly monster bash.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If you need epic loot, you fall into one or more of the following categories:
1. Boss farmer
2. Avid PvPer
3. Hardcore Powerbuilder

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If you're having them for you're enjoyment, then it's just a frill, not a need.

So you define 'need' as "someone in these groups that wants an epic item"? Other people need them just as much for their RP.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

You do realise how ridiculous that sound? Of course you got a dozen Dc's and shiploads of gold. because you CAN Have both at the same time.

You're weird. I never said you can't have both.

I believe it's because of how this sounds:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If you're really here for RP, you don't need gold or epic loot.
Your currency is in DCs.

That does sound as though it's insinuating you either RP or you need epic loot.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If someone would post a list of the top 20 DC earners, I'm sure some blood will be spilled :lol:

Why would anyone post a list of the top 20 DC earners? We aren't asking for a list of the top gold earners, or the top gold hoarders, just a graph that shows where they are. Another issue with the comparison is that:
1. DC's are given out subjectively - it's a personal opinion thing;
2. It's a matter of luck - DMs can't be everywhere at once;
3. Timezones have a major effect - some timezones are lacking in DMs, and so those players never see a DC, whilst others have plenty of DCs given out in.

Also, gold is objective - if it is true that soloing generates most of the income, none of those three actually affect gold.
If it's not true, at least with a graph we can see where the average wealth lies and how big the standard deviation. It would be nice to have most people sitting at and around the average with a few outliers rather than a horrible distribution.

Selmak wrote:

Currently, if you kill monsters you get XP and a little bit of gold.

This little bit of gold is well-meaning and intended to help out new characters but when it gets added up over four hours and multiplied by whomever is killing monsters, it's a slow and steady trickle into the economy. What you should be doing is reversing the polarity

and taking money out of the economy.

In other words, charge characters gold for the necessary expenses of adventuring on the spot instead of giving away gold for each kill. The higher the level of the thing(s) you've killed, the more you get charged. The more people in your party, the less monetary burden there is on each individual. If anyone runs out of gold, the XP stops until someone has unloaded their loot for some more GP.

Note that, even if you don't earn any XP (because you're max level or the party levels are too far apart) you'll still be charged as though you had earned XP.

It seems counter-intuitive. However, it also has the virtue of being simple. No messing about with adventurer ration packs, and no trips to the smithy to get your gear repaired. The amount of taxation would be, over the long term, proportionate to your adventuring activity and the value of the loot you're likely to get.

I certainly don't like the idea. It's like punishing people for doing the thing they enjoy.

Selmak wrote:

P.S. All those dashes stretch the page way too much.

I noticed that too, it's rather annoying.

A listing of the top 20 DC earners would give people reason to call favoritism, even if it's unfounded. "So-and-so got 30 DC's in the past 6 weeks and I only got 1. That's favoritism! I want more DC's!"

That's no good at all. DC's should remain completely discreet and between the DM's and the players that are getting them.

I would still like to sea graph of where the lvl 30's lie in total gold. I think a bar graph with markers like <100k, 100-200 etc. (or whatever is appropriate) ... it would not only be interesting, but would enable everyone to see how bad the economy actually is.
Or it may show that here is little wrong with it.

Yurell wrote:

I certainly don't like the idea. It's like punishing people for doing the thing they enjoy.

It would be punishing people to take money out of the economy by having them repair their gear or fill up their inventory with useless food that gets constantly used up. At least if it comes out a little at a time when you kill something, you can see the effect immediately and have the option to stop well before your monster-bashing ways lead to destitution.

I myself don't particularly enjoy the need to spend money to repair gear, but I put up with it when playing LOTRO because I do get loot and I do get XP. I can't just stand in one place and continually kill and loot things, if everyone could do that without cost to their characters, it would be a pretty boring place to play.

Yurell wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Dwagin wrote:

If the economy eats more money than comes into it new characters and new players are screwed.

What's all this talk about the economy anyway?
Heal potions have been 3000 since forever.
Raise scrolls have been 5000 since forever.
New loot drops can be sold for between 100-200k a pop.
If anything, new players are able to build wealth faster.

New players need access to those supplies, so they need to be cheap enough. Older players have virtually limitless amount of money when it comes to supplies (once you hit a million gold you don't even notice the Heal Potions or Raise Scrolls).

So how does this screw new players? It's not like heal potions or raise scroll can be in short supply because some rich nut cornered the market. We're not trading commodities here. Supply is unlimited and prices are fixed.

Yurell wrote:

So you define 'need' as "someone in these groups that wants an epic item"? Other people need them just as much for their RP.

Would you like to share with us why someone would need epic items for their RP?

ainjyll wrote:

A listing of the top 20 DC earners would give people reason to call favoritism, even if it's unfounded. "So-and-so got 30 DC's in the past 6 weeks and I only got 1. That's favoritism! I want more DC's!

Favouritism exists in everyplace where people are involved.
You want more DCs? Take the PrC "DC Hunter".

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Dwagin wrote:

If the economy eats more money than comes into it new characters and new players are screwed.

What's all this talk about the economy anyway?
Heal potions have been 3000 since forever.
Raise scrolls have been 5000 since forever.
New loot drops can be sold for between 100-200k a pop.
If anything, new players are able to build wealth faster.

New players need access to those supplies, so they need to be cheap enough. Older players have virtually limitless amount of money when it comes to supplies (once you hit a million gold you don't even notice the Heal Potions or Raise Scrolls).

So how does this screw new players? It's not like heal potions or raise scroll can be in short supply because some rich nut cornered the market. We're not trading commodities here. Supply is unlimited and prices are fixed.

If money is leaving the economy on average it generally means that everyone's disposable income is cut into ... unless you don't have disposable income, then you would lose what you need.

My post was referring to changing the prices of those items, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Yurell wrote:

If money is leaving the economy on average it generally means that everyone's disposable income is cut into ... unless you don't have disposable income, then you would lose what you need.

My post was referring to changing the prices of those items, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Hmm I still don't quite follow since the prices of items are fixed.
Calls to remove or raise prices of heals potions and raise scrolls have been similarly dismissed by the management.

If you're into hack and slashing, the money generated from loot drops you get far outstrips your operational costs. Which is why active characters are able to build up large sums of money effortlessly.

If you're not into hack and slashing, you probably won't need to drink 100 heal pots a day. That roughly equates to a negligible operational cost.

Then we will have a "SoJ " economy like Diablo 2 had

Halecta wrote:

Then we will have a "SoJ " economy like Diablo 2 had

Whose post is that to?

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

If you're into hack and slashing, the money generated from loot drops you get far outstrips your operational costs. Which is why active characters are able to build up large sums of money effortlessly.

If you're not into hack and slashing, you probably won't need to drink 100 heal pots a day. That roughly equates to a negligible operational cost.

Which is why a fixed percentage of cash on hand per logged hour makes sense to me. Those with more money either have higher expenses because they need to spend money to make money (replacing scrolls & potions, fixing weapons & armour) or because they live a more extravagant lifestyle (buying hard-to-fine magic items, hoarding gems, owning a big house or running a faction). The 1st level farmer has very little money, but also doesnt have to spend a lot.

Having more money doesn't automatically mean you live extravagantly. Torin is a millionaire and lives in a room in an inn. He has almost no living expenses.

Taxes are a lame idea all around.

As well, most magically items don't require repair like mundane ones do. They only time they need repair is if they shattr via magical attack or rust monster or etc.

TormakSaber wrote:

As well, most magically items don't require repair like mundane ones do. They only time they need repair is if they shattr via magical attack or rust monster or etc.

The new hak has Xorn models right? Give them devour weapon touch attacks :lol:

*Shudders at the thought*

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

As well, most magically items don't require repair like mundane ones do. They only time they need repair is if they shattr via magical attack or rust monster or etc.

The new hak has Xorn models right? Give them devour weapon touch attacks :lol:

Bring them on! Unless they eat hands?

On a more serious note, what about weight for gold, a limit on bags of holding, and a banking system? Yes, STR builds would do better out of this... but if the banking system was done in a pseudo-guild way this could work (as in the banks that most STR builds have to use have higher fees; thus they can carry more but when they eventually have to bank it it costs them a fair bit to do so... unless they are in a faction with a vault)

By that I mean that faction areas get a vault and there are other 'banks' run for specific character classes, some of which require a letter of recomendation or something of that sort(DM approval).

In a system like this, personal wealth could actually require RP to maintain. Sure, you can use a bank but it will cost you. It could also make wealth a tangiable factor in faction power... the Baneites getting too rich? Break into their vault and knock off a bit off coin... just be sure you can carry it away again(ie, SDs can't rob everyone because they couldn't get away).

This is a rather crude explanation of a rather complicated idea so if people could consider it and offer opinions?

TormakSaber wrote:

Having more money doesn't automatically mean you live extravagantly. Torin is a millionaire and lives in a room in an inn. He has almost no living expenses.

No, it doesnt automatically mean it, but there's a high correlation. :wink:

Those who dont may spend their money tithing to their church (monks, paladins, clerics) or faction, giving to worthy causes, supporting indigent family members, etc. Plus there are everyday costs for clothing, food, etc. There's plenty to spend money on without living extravagantly.

Remove raise dead scrolls.

Edit:

Maybe I should elaborate. Without raise dead scrolls, you get:

1.) More risk in fighting monsters, which is what most seem to want.

2.) Encouraging roleplay. Somebody died? Go find a priest.

4.) Possibly lots of frustration, especially for those who do not like to RP.

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