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Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Nekhy wrote:

Adventuring is encouraged, and classic D&D adventuring involves killing monsters.

That gives you gold.

If you adventure, consistently, you'll have a lot of gold. Eventually.

Hunting isn't restricted to 24/7 grinding of one area without IC conversations or interactions.

Hence having a higher income. You'd still have the advantage of having more gold / more disposable income than those who do not hunt much.

Doesn't matter.

Why exactly should they be more severely punished than the others?

What's the reasoning behind that? The motivation?

Anything beyond something resembling a socialistic ideology.

Mr Mago wrote:

Doesn't matter.

Why exactly should they be more severely punished than the others?

They're not. They lose the same proportion of wealth as everyoe else.

Mr Mago wrote:

What's the reasoning behind that? The motivation?

-Increases the risk when soloing
-Helps remove money from the economy
-Helps prevent large sums of money coalescing on small numbers of people

Mr Mago wrote:

That gives you gold.

If you adventure, consistently, you'll have a lot of gold. Eventually.

Hunting isn't restricted to 24/7 grinding of one area without IC conversations or interactions.

Hypothetically speaking, but a lot of what goes on is a bit different. Hats off to those who dare to break the grind at the expense of gold and toss some RP in between.

Mind that my comparison wasn't to give grinding a nice euphemism "adventuring", but to show that there's a difference in adventuring and "adventuring". It's not an adventure to check out the same mountain or cave ten times a day in case more dragons appear.

Nah.

I get the message loud and clear.

"Don't earn more gold than others. We don't want your character to be richer than mine."

That's the core of it.

Mr Mago wrote:

But you'd run the risk of throwing several hours of your life, hours you spent hunting because you chose to, for one reason or another, out the window. You die once, you lose [insert number of hours here] you could have spent doing something other than playing Amia.

It's good that RPing is encouraged, but -playing- the module shouldn't be discouraged. I'm not one of the people who bossfarm the day away. In fact, it's been some time since I last bothered to go out hunting. But this modification seems unfair and unnecessary.

Mr Mago wrote:

Nah.

I get the message loud and clear.

"Don't earn more gold than others. We don't want your character to be richer than mine."

That's the core of it.

I couldn't care less if your character has more or less money than mine. As Wonwon said, he is a major supporter of this proposition and he stands to lose a lot of gold.

PvP is frowned upon.

Killing monsters for gold is frowned upon.

Boss killing for epic loot is frowned upon.

Playing evil is frowned upon.

I guess I'll start playing a chaotic good elf, as everyone else, and hope to get some DCs during my 24/7 forest picnics.

slkNihilus wrote:

But you'd run the risk of throwing several hours of your life, hours you spent hunting because you chose to, for one reason or another, out the window. You die once, you lose [insert number of hours here] you could have spent doing something other than playing Amia.

It's good that RPing is encouraged, but -playing- the module shouldn't be discouraged. I'm not one of the people who bossfarm the day away. In fact, it's been some time since I last bothered to go out hunting. But this modification seems unfair and unnecessary.

Playing the module isn't discouraged. You can continue earning money, it will simply be slower if you solo than if you're in a party or are doing it safely. And if you lose an unacceptable amount of hours when you die worth of gold, doesn't that say there was no need for you to be hunting down more gold in the first place?

Mr Mago wrote:

Anything beyond something resembling a socialistic ideology.

You got your political ideologies wrong. You repeat that socialist/communist mantra so much you make me want to give you something real to complain about, so you're not wasting your typing.

Let's do progressive gold loss and share the collected amounts with the poorest characters, as income transfer.

Now there you have some socialism!

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Nah.

I get the message loud and clear.

"Don't earn more gold than others. We don't want your character to be richer than mine."

That's the core of it.

I couldn't care less if your character has more or less money than mine. As Wonwon said, he is a major supporter of this proposition and he stands to lose a lot of gold.

When was the last time Airais went out hunting?

Ron's elf made her gold through mythal crafting, if I remember correctly.

Has she ever pressed the respawn button, even?

He's not really at risk of losing all the money he claims he could lose.

Nekhy wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Anything beyond something resembling a socialistic ideology.

You got your political ideologies wrong. You repeat that socialist/communist mantra so much you make me want to give you something real to complain about, so you're not wasting your typing.

Let's do progressive gold loss and share the collected amounts with the poorest characters, as income transfer.

Now there you have some socialism!

I wouldn't be surprised if that's next.

Excessive PvP is frowned upon.

Grinding monsters constantly is frowned upon.

Boss Farming for Epic Loot is frowned upon.

Playing Evil Poorly (Often known as Chaotic Stupid) is frowned upon.

Last edited by slkNihilus on Fri, Mar 05 2010, 13:03 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

And if you lose an unacceptable amount of hours when you die worth of gold, doesn't that say there was no need for you to be hunting down more gold in the first place?

Some people enjoy doing that. Others do it when bored out of their skulls. Punishing people for doing something they like/something they do out of lack of anything else to do doesn't seem smart to me.

Of course, for those people the alternative would be "exit Amia and browse the interwebz". At a time when people are concerned about lack of players online, this would be the best thing to do, aye?

WonWon wrote:

Excessive PvP is frowned upon.

Grinding monsters constantly is frowned upon.

Boss Farming for Epic Loot is frowned upon.

Playing Evil Poorly (Often known as Chaotic Stupid) is frowned upon.

Care-bear RP is DC rewarded.

And when did you try to play evil as a PC on Amia, without your well-recognized player account, Ron?

Mr Mago wrote:

He's not really at risk of losing all the money he claims he could lose.

Neither are you if you choose not to grind epic bosses without a party.

slkNihilus wrote:

Quote:

And if you lose an unacceptable amount of hours when you die worth of gold, doesn't that say there was no need for you to be hunting down more gold in the first place?

Some people enjoy doing that. Others do it when bored out of their skulls. Punishing people for doing something they like/something they do out of lack of anything else to do doesn't seem smart to me.

You aren't punished for your fun though - you will hit an equilibrium amount of gold where gain is equal to loss eventually. Plus they can't take away the fun you had.

WonWon wrote:

IE; You can hunt. I don't mind if you hunt. If you RP while hunting, that's fine with me. You can grind if you want, too. I won't complain.

But I won't be too sympathetic if you get bitten for it later down the track.

I find this confusing... are the beating of monsters and the comprehensive RPing of a rounded adventurer mutually exclusive. I am not trying to be sarcastic here... I find this activly confusing.

I mean... it would be nice to level a PC through DCs alone but it's just not going to happen. Most of the players on Amia, particularly newer players, do not belong to the right cliques of players to make DC leveling even a remote possibility (please no comments about equal distribution or making something happen to get them. Cliques always form, it's human nature).

Bearing all of this in mind, Magos point about constant treasure/ gold dropping carries some merit. Why not use the aforementioned taxation systems... or have NPC burgleries that are assumed to happen to those known to be rich... unless they use a bank... which will require taxation.

'Recently'. I'm not giving details, because i'm happy not having his/her cover blown in public.

The fact other evil factions and players seem to be succeeding quite well in some endeavours, and in some cases excelling rather majorly (albiet subtly), seems to speak to me that, well..

Evil works.

But you need to do it right.

Last edited by slkNihilus on Fri, Mar 05 2010, 13:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.

God knows I hate hunting. I used to do it in a party, because it was genuinely fun. I did solo some places when I had nothing else to do, RP-wise. So I'm not the one being punished, trust me.

Quote:

You aren't punished for your fun though - you will hit an equilibrium amount of gold where gain is equal to loss eventually. Plus they can't take away the fun you had.

Not sure about that. Frustration from losing huge amounts of gold over a lag-spike is not something I'd personally consider fun.

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

He's not really at risk of losing all the money he claims he could lose.

Neither are you if you choose not to grind epic bosses without a party.

You don't really know what you're talking about, Yurell.

-Me-, personally, won't die unless I choose to, generally speaking. I can boss grind all bosses without really risking death. But that's just me.

And skilled players, high level players, die often enough in parties as it is.

Again, the whole notion of "If you're in a party, you won't have to respawn", is complete bullshit.

WonWon wrote:

'Recently'. I'm not giving details, because i'm happy not having his/her cover blown in public.

The fact other evil factions and players seem to be succeeding quite well in some endeavours, and in some cases excelling rather majorly (albiet subtly), seems to speak to me that, well..

Evil works.

But you need to do it right.

I know that.

But going the non-evil route is 10 times easier. If not 50 times easier.

I know that. How? Try 4½ years of wading through the dirt of getting one of Amia's evil factions to where it currently is.

But that's an entirely different discussion, I suppose.

ummmm... whut huh?...[size=24]?[/size]

Mr Mago wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

He's not really at risk of losing all the money he claims he could lose.

Neither are you if you choose not to grind epic bosses without a party.

You don't really know what you're talking about, Yurell.

-Me-, personally, won't die unless I choose to, generally speaking. I can boss grind all bosses without really risking death. But that's just me.

And skilled players, high level players, die often enough in parties as it is.

Again, the whole notion of "If you're in a party, you won't have to respawn", is complete (censored).

You've just as much risk of dying as anyone else, less so since you know how to build very well. Saying someone else isn't at risk of losing their gold because they choose not to hunt holds as much merit as being able to choose not to do so yourself (and I use 'you' in this sentence as 'one').

The build isn't even half of it.

When it comes to killing both monsters and bosses, it's all about knowing the thing you're trying to kill. What tactics to use, and how to prepare for it.

It's a server where the majority of the plots and setting have the PCs playing the protagonist, and the NPCs playing the antagonist.

What do you expect, srsly?

To move on;

Don't want to risk losing alot of gold; don't hunt.
Want to gain more gold? Pick option. Take Risk and fight high-output opponents (Beholders, Illithids, etc). Take far less risk, fight low-output opponents (Fire giants, Brog Orcs, etc)

I agree with Mago in that the party argument is nonsense. I just don't see where this notion of unfair comes from. My intuition doesn't say that it's unfair, and purely mathematically speaking, it's quite fair.

There should still be room for hammer and tongs, kill them all evil. It's a D and D setting for gods sake.

Playing evil well should mean playing your characters brand of evil well. I find the Chaotic Stupid tag really galling to be honest. Playing a Chaotic Evil PC as a Chaotic Evil PC and not being universally OOC shuned would take some real RP talent.

This thread has become booooring....

So we're all agreed then? No server swapping!

How the hell can you people argue three pages about a simple matter such as this...?

I mean that's got to be something spectacular or very sad.

It turned into something new, and better!

It's called topic derailing. Death penalties are a completely different discussion than a simple matter of rule-breaking.

Yurell wrote:

Not everyone builds well enough to take on 50xp/kill monsters.
It generally takes me an hour to get so much XP back

Exactly, also not everyone goes out to exp hunt either. Most of my levels are from cashing in DCs because I rather go out seeking RP rather then going out to seek exp. I know I know, I am a strange one to think I should seek RP more on a RP server.

WonWon wrote:

Boss Farming for Epic Loot is frowned upon.

That's a new one. I sure remember a few DM PC's who have done it an awful lot.

Frowned Upon =/= Against the Rules.

I know plenty of DMs and Players who do it occasionally, many more that do it daily, and a few that never do it.

Doesn't mean it's "Good", per se, but it's completely legal.

Just means we don't, necessarily, need to reward it.

You almost make it sound like the DM team has a homogeneous opinion on the subjects at hand. That's really what I was referring to.

I'm very much certain (though another DM can freely comment, of course) that the four I mentioned are "Not Liked" in regards to their presence as a general practice.

I don't have a qualm with the person who does a bosshunt once every few weeks.

Actual Farming (hence using the term) is where it get sbad.

Generally speaking.

Don't implement or allow features which will later on cause you to act unfavourably towards certain individuals because they decide to make use of said features.

You know: This has really gone well off the topic it was originally intended for.

However, while I do sense it's only going to get to a point where arguements and similar are going to keep going round and round, it may be worth bisecting the topic thusly.

Here's my two cents:

- Some paths of RP are harder then others. This is an accepted point and to be honest, no matter what's done it's always going to be that way. Chaotic Stupid Evil is one of those paths and far as I'm concerned, hell yes make it harder.

- There's been criticism towards 'Carebear' RP. I'm sorry, but this server was made to be more open to such , thus the name Amia, (short for Amicable). Admittedly, there has been steps to try to open up options so people could do within reason and with some consideration for their fellow players what they wish (another aspect of the server's original intentions).

If you don't like Carebear RP, that's your choice. If you don't like the fact certain RP paths are harder to take, that's your choice. However, there is a choice you can make as well that might solve both of those problems if you cannot find a way to work within the Server to do what you wish.

- Earning Gold: Honestly, I admit it, most ofm y characters right festively SUCK at Earning gold. Nowadays, I have but one character in my regularly played lot who I'll hunt with for various reasons:

Kiyomi: The one I'll hunt with, but I feel more confident finding her a party.

Vaelmith: His IC duties at the Monolith and abroad as Captain of the Weave Knights do not ALLOW for regular forays into the Brog mountains unless there's a specific and justifiable reason.

Tuomas Valo: Completely a Pacifist, and primarily a researcher and trades-Gnome. There is no room for or need for further discussion.

In the above cases, Vaelmith does manage the odd foray out, and has lucked in with donations in past. Tuomas, surprisingly has recieved boons for his dolls and for his research and other assistance.

I'm sorry if what I've said above rails anyones feathers, but I have to say it.

Lock please.

I'm gonna have to back Mago on his points.

If I bust ass to make my gold, knowing that when I can I use parties and RP during hunts...but sometimes I just can't...why should i have to give it all up? Those chars that have a butt-ton of gold /aren't/ all necessarily from grinding constantly. Mago, for example, RPs plenty. He has the DC's to prove it, I'm sure. I've seen it. But yeah, after several years, the guy's loaded. That comes with being old and powerful.

The basic deal is this. If you die....don't swap servers. And unless there are extenuating circumstances, don't swap chars and wait on a reset. Press the respawn button. It's not gonna kill you. I love the fact that I can't lose lvls here. I cackled like an idiot when I learned that, let me tell you.

hendrack wrote:

Lock please.

No.

Anyways, I find it a bit funny that the only ones who complain about uncapping the gold loss are the super rich people for whom the 10% is still a drop in the bucket for.

The answer is: Don't die and need to respawn. Then you don't lose your money. Ta da!

Quote:

I love the fact that I can't lose lvls here. I cackled like an idiot when I learned that, let me tell you.

Sometimes I wiush you would, just to stop idiots from respawning 10+ times to kill a single boss knowing it means nothing.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

I love the fact that I can't lose lvls here. I cackled like an idiot when I learned that, let me tell you.

Sometimes I wiush you would, just to stop idiots from respawning 10+ times to kill a single boss knowing it means nothing.

The fact that 400k is nothing compared to the 5% chance of getting epic loot says something there.
I can't really imagine someone trying that in an uncapped system.

I think they would stil, tbh, because it's not costing them the real currency: Levels and XP. But self delevelling isn't something we can allow.

Last edited by Yurell on Fri, Mar 05 2010, 23:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

I think they would stil, tbh, because it's not costing them the real currency: Levels and XP.

I suppose you're right. Then again, if they can afford to lose 65% of their gold their either immaculately rich or ridiculously poor.

TormakSaber wrote:

But self delevelling isn't something we can allow.

Unfortunately IMO.

Problem isn't with currency inflow, its with currency outflow.

Healing potions need to be more expensive/less effective, especially in light with what else is coming down the pipe changes wise.

Healing potions need an overhaul, both usability and cost re-balance. There needs to be some potions between serious/critical and healing potions. And they need to use up an entire round to use. Maybe get players a heal potion belt or something, which is a useable item with charges which can be refilled and remove heal pots from the module.

Maybe a few stages of heal potions, cost increasing per stage..
Say something like:

150hp, 13gp per hp healed.
300hp, 14gp per hp healed.
450hp, 15gp per hp healed.
600hp, 16gp per hp healed.

Bubblies need to cost more too.

So do raise scrolls.

Losing 10% of gold is a hell of an outflow.

No. The problem is currency inflow.

It always has been.

Removing the caps and increasing costs of heal potions won't compensate for the 30-50+ millions of gp that goes into the module every day.

To be fair, the problem is both inflow and outflow, but I extrapolated in detail on this ten million years ago and no one really gave a damn. Perhaps if I'd changed my forum name to Alan Greenspan...

Do et.

Server swapping, a reminder

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