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cinmay
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 Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:38 AM |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Hi. I have created a vigilante character and I am having some trouble finding the right alignment and deity for him.
He is not a revenge vigilante. Although there is something in he's past that made him the way he is he goes after anyone who in his mind is unjust.
Good vs Evil alignment?
I find it difficult to choose because as some of he's actions may be considered evil he believes he is good and will preform good actions.
He likes killing he's victims but he is not Dexter. He doesn't get pleasure from the act of murder but he believes the justice system has failed and he has to do the only thing that can be done. Given a better alternative he will not kill.
Lawfull vs Chaotic
He believes law has failed. Especially Cordor law. He will question authority if he thinks they are being unjust. He will respect people who he believes to be just like some paladins, knights and clerics of certain gods although he's standards are pretty high.
So in summary he believes he is Lawfull Good. But he has a dark side.
When it comes to deity I have no idea. I think it all depends on what alignment I end up with.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Chaotic Good. Is good, beyond the law. Like the good rogue..or robin hood.
You don't need a deity, infact it would make sense for this guy to not have a deity honestly.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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A dety of vengeance?
Hoar, baby. Go LN, or TN. Kill some perps!
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Jyro X
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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Sounds like a member of the EO or a Tyrran to me.
_________________  
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Chaotic Good. Is good, beyond the law. Like the good rogue..or robin hood.
You don't need a deity, infact it would make sense for this guy to not have a deity honestly.
It never makes sense for an FR person to not worship a god. Ever. Ever ever ever. Never recommend this to someone ever again, or my loremonkey will hurt you. 
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: Chaotic Good. Is good, beyond the law. Like the good rogue..or robin hood.
You don't need a deity, infact it would make sense for this guy to not have a deity honestly. It never makes sense for an FR person to not worship a god. Ever. Ever ever ever. Never recommend this to someone ever again, or my loremonkey will hurt you. It doesn't make much sense for them to worship only one, either.
But he does sound TN leaning CN to me.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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I'd disagree on him being Chaotic Good. CG is no less 'good' than LG, that seems to be a common misconception. If your char consistently performs actions that are considered evil, he is not good, despite what he may believe himself to be.
A character who sticks only to his own strict rules and sense of justice I'd say is Lawful Neutral; You do what you must within the rules you set for yourself. Lawful does not necesarily mean that you follow the laws of teh society, it could just as well be your own set of ideals and laws.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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TormakSaber wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: Chaotic Good. Is good, beyond the law. Like the good rogue..or robin hood.
You don't need a deity, infact it would make sense for this guy to not have a deity honestly. It never makes sense for an FR person to not worship a god. Ever. Ever ever ever. Never recommend this to someone ever again, or my loremonkey will hurt you. Bull. Bull Bull Bull.
If you don't agree with how the gods work, you won't worship one. If your a pessimistic bastard who hates everything, you probably won't worship one. If you don't believe the rubbish spouted from the mouths of clerics, you won't worship one. If your ego is overblown, you probably think your better then the gods, or more powerful, then you probably won't worship one.
Lots of reasons.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 10:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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All reasons that fall flat when you take two very obvious facts of data into account;
A - Deities Exist, are Proven to exist, and have their power quite readily demonstrated and shown to the world.
B - The Wall is quite well known about as a fate for those who don't worship a deity.
Worshipping a deity out of desparation to stop yourself from suffering an eternity of pain amidst a wall made of yourself and everyone around, is still worshipping a deity.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Most people know bugger all about the gods (AFAIK), beyond "This is who I pray to when I plant my crops, if I want luck at market I give these gods some offerings, when I'm on a long journey an offering to this one couldn't hurt." And, of course, almost everyone is familiar with the fate of not worshipping them.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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The argument that all must worship a god of some kind is massivly flawed. It fundamentally underestimates the ability of an individual to believe what they want to believe.
Look at real world religions. There is no proof at all that any of their gods exist; they exist wholly on faith. There is no reason at all why someone in a world over run with gods could not maintain a strong personal conviction or faith in the absolute non-existance of gods.
All of these clerics are really deluded sorcerers, this divine magic garbage is just arcane magic practiced by deluded people. You can never dismiss the blinding power of faith. Look at what it has done to our world.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
Last edited by The Incognitos on Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:09 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I'm sure there do exist some people who don't believe in the gods. They're idiots and objectively wrong, but I'm sure they do exist.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Of course you would worship the gods. Not because empirical evidence exists of their power, but because the archaic mind thinks in terms of myths, divine presence and ritual. You overestimate the analytic mind of Faerûnians.
The gods aren't some purely transcendent ideals who impose a sense of servitude on you. They're like people, animals and natural forces, you simply work with them to achieve benefits and maintain the balance of the world and your life through ritual. Some worship them in the devotional sense you see in many modern world religions, but I bet those are a minority.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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IronAngel wrote: Of course you would worship the gods. Not because empirical evidence exists of their power, but because the archaic mind thinks in terms of myths, divine presence and ritual. You overestimate the analytic mind of Faerûnians.
I am sure there exists at least one person who doesn't believe in them, just as I'd bet there was at least one person in 14th century Europe who didn't believe that the God of Abraham existed.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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IronAngel wrote: Of course you would worship the gods. Not because empirical evidence exists of their power, but because the archaic mind thinks in terms of myths, divine presence and ritual. You overestimate the analytic mind of Faerûnians.
If that were the case we'd never have left the middle ages. _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Of course. But that's beside the point: it doesn't make much sense, typically. There's little reason you should play one, unless it's a really interesting concept that defines your character. "Just don't worship one for plenty of reasons" isn't a very compelling character idea, and it ruins the immersion for everyone else.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Pony
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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In the Forgotten Realms you see the powers of the gods through the spells they grant their clergy through prayer. There is no real way to doubt the existence of the gods, as there is real evidence they exist. You might doubt the Pope in the real world if there is a god, you wont doubt a man who can have his god produce a storm of vengeance above your head though or cure all of your wounds and even raise people from the dead.
Now there were heros who were faithless and did not fear death as in the beginning Kelemvor had places for the good aligned faithless and evil aligned faithless, more resembling a kind of heaven and hell, so they knew they would not end up in anything like the wall. Most who are faithless lose their faith, like when Cyric managed to do that with a follower of Mystra and Kelemvor still put him in the wall.
The way to punish good aligned faithless was changed however when Kelemvor became less human but more god-like, and its common knowledge now in any place where there are kelemvorite priests that those who are faithless will be put in the wall, slowly dissolve over the long years under enormous pain until their soul becomes nothing and they are completely destroyed.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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For that I'd agree with Iron - it usually wouldn't make sense, and I would strongly urge you to worship the pantheon (or a deity, since most people seem intent in being predominately monotheistic).
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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The Incognitos wrote: IronAngel wrote: Of course you would worship the gods. Not because empirical evidence exists of their power, but because the archaic mind thinks in terms of myths, divine presence and ritual. You overestimate the analytic mind of Faerûnians. If that were the case we'd never have left the middle ages. The middle ages were very analytic in their religion, and rather different to the Realms. Think ancient Polynesia or Rome, instead.
We haven't even entered the middle ages, in the Realms. Well, when it comes to religion. It's a very archaic polytheism that pervades Toril. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Phearnun wrote: In the Forgotten Realms you see the powers of the gods through the spells they grant their clergy through prayer. There is no real way to doubt the existence of the gods, as there is real evidence they exist. You might doubt the Pope in the real world if there is a god, you wont doubt a man who can have his god produce a storm of vengeance above your head though or cure all of your wounds and even raise people from the dead. Here we have overwhelming evidence that the Universe was not created six thousand years ago, and yet ... IronAngel wrote: We haven't even entered the middle ages, in the Realms. Well, when it comes to religion. It's a very archaic polytheism that pervades Toril.
Yup, although people seem more intent on bringing their own monotheistic views into it (having one god above all others), which from what I stand isn't exactly standard in a polytheistic society.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Faith is not a matter of empirical evidence, though. By portraying such a 20th century mindset, you fail at grasping the archaic religious mind, IMO. Faerûnians simply don't think like we do.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Why could one not see all of these 'clerics' as either lieing or mad arcane magic users? There are plenty of proofs for evolution and yet a large percentage of the worlds population refuse to believe in it. Being sentient allows for a wide range of choice... the possibility must be allowed for.
That said, I do agree that spirituality should form a part of a character in this setting, but to say that that spirituality uncompromising must choose one diety to follow is a bit restrictive.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Is it not true that few liches worship a god? I think you overestimate the ability of a human to think he's better then a god.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Is it not true that few liches worship a god? I think you overestimate the ability of a human to think he's better then a god.
I believe that Iron has conceded already that there would exist some people that wouldn't worship a god. This in itself is unusual, though - the vast majority would. It makes little sense to not worship a god ... liches have immortality, and so they needn't be concerned with the repercussions. But I'm quite sure they would acknowledge the existence of the gods.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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You should absolutely not feel compelled to choose one deity to follow. It's polytheism, after all.
There's simply no reason for normal humans, generally speaking, not to revere and appease the gods. It's possible, and there may be good reasons for it, but 99% of the time you shouldn't do it. Yossarin is an interesting and succesful character in this, I believe, but one is quite enough. Just because you can come up with a silly explanation why your PC defies the gods doesn't mean you should. It's gimmicky. Gimmicks are lame.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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cinmay wrote: Hi. I have created a vigilante character and I am having some trouble finding the right alignment and deity for him.
I've given my advice on the alignment, but as far as deities go, if you can't choose, don't.
Far better to worship the Faerunian Pantheon (or the Elven Pantheon / Dwarven Pantheon or whatever other is applicable) than to pick a god out of a hat.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Why could one not see all of these 'clerics' as either lieing or mad arcane magic users? There are plenty of proofs for evolution and yet a large percentage of the worlds population refuse to believe in it. Being sentient allows for a wide range of choice... the possibility must be allowed for.
That said, I do agree that spirituality should form a part of a character in this setting, but to say that that spirituality uncompromising must choose one diety to follow is a bit restrictive.
EDIT: With regard to the concept of an archaic mindset, I'm not exactly sure what point you are making there. Not everyone in the middle ages was a dirt farming peasent. If that were the case then we'd not have reached the Enlightenment.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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The Incognitos wrote: Why could one not see all of these 'clerics' as either lieing or mad arcane magic users? There are plenty of proofs for evolution and yet a large percentage of the worlds population refuse to believe in it. Being sentient allows for a wide range of choice... the possibility must be allowed for.
That said, I do agree that spirituality should form a part of a character in this setting, but to say that that spirituality uncompromising must choose one diety to follow is a bit restrictive.
EDIT: With regard to the concept of an archaic mindset, I'm not exactly sure what point you are making there. Not everyone in the middle ages was a dirt farming peasent. If that were the case then we'd not have reached the Enlightenment.
Are you arguing that a substantial portion of people wouldn't believe in the gods?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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check my signy  _________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY! 
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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If you're not a cleric, just think about the things that are generally important to your character and the faiths he might have come across in his life.
Hoar, Tyr, Tempus, Shaundakul, Tymora, they're all important gods for someone who travels with justice in mind. Chauntea is important for everyone, as the mother goddess, goddess of fertility, agriculture and so on. You catch the drift. I think it's boring to worship just one god.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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I'm arguing that a persons spirituality in this setting does not require a god. I'm not saying this is the mojority view or anything like that. Just that the possibility of an athiest in the setting is valid.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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The Incognitos wrote: I'm arguing that a persons spirituality in this setting does not require a god. I'm not saying this is the mojority view or anything like that. Just that the possibility of an athiest in the setting is valid. Iron's already conceded the possibility of some people not believing in the gods: Yurell wrote: IronAngel wrote: Of course you would worship the gods. Not because empirical evidence exists of their power, but because the archaic mind thinks in terms of myths, divine presence and ritual. You overestimate the analytic mind of Faerûnians. I am sure there exists at least one person who doesn't believe in them, just as I'd bet there was at least one person in 14th century Europe who didn't believe that the God of Abraham existed. IronAngel wrote: Of course. But that's beside the point: it doesn't make much sense, typically. There's little reason you should play one, unless it's a really interesting concept that defines your character. "Just don't worship one for plenty of reasons" isn't a very compelling character idea, and it ruins the immersion for everyone else.
(If that wasn't what you were responding to, Iron, I do apologise and have misunderstood myself)
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 11:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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i suffer under the burden of slow typing and referesh rates... replying to questions alll ready past by
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 12:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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OP: Tyr, LN.
Sidetrack: No, you don't have to worship a god. THe wall of the faithless exists because some people dont worship gods. Theres nothing to say you cant be next in line. Whether your character is right to is another question - the answer is certainly no (apart from Selvec's Liches, who I suspect are of the opinion that they are never going to die so why bother worrying about it). But being wrong is interesting, so if you really want to....
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Gunz
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 12:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Your character sounds to be neutral for sure on the good-evil scale. As for the lawful-chaotic scale... it's hard to say with what you've given. I would say neutral or lawful. So, true neutral or lawful neutral is what your character sounds like to me.
As for a patron, it depends on if you're a divine caster (cleric, paladin, champion, etc.) or not. I think Hoar and Tyr fit best though. By far.
Divine caster or not a divine caster
Faerûnian Pantheon: Hoar, Tyr, Helm, Torm, Ilmater, Kelemvor, Red Knight or Bahamut.
Mulhorandi Pantheon: Horus-Re or Osiris.
Dwarven Pantheon: Moradin, Gorm Gulthyn, Berronar Truesilver or Clangeddin Silverbeard.
Gnome Pantheon: Garl Glittergold or Gaerdal Ironhand.
Hin Pantheon: Yondalla or Arvoreen
Not a divine caster
Faerûnian Pantheon: Lathander, Selune, Tempus and maybe even Tymora or Beshaba (maybe both!).
Mulhorandi Pantheon: Anhur.
Dwarven Pantheon: Haela Brightaxe.
Elven Pantheon: Corellon Larethian, Angharradh or Shevarash.
IronAngel wrote: I think it's boring to worship just one god.
Agreed in full. While I find it very fun to play ultra religious characters who have a patron, all my characters worship multiple gods. Some of my characters even worship nearly all or all the gods of certain pantheons.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Vaylek
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 13:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Yurell wrote: Yup, although people seem more intent on bringing their own monotheistic views into it (having one god above all others), which from what I stand isn't exactly standard in a polytheistic society.
This aint so bad, in fact I think its a better trend for a place like Amia.
Clerics of any god are mainly going to be concerned with worshipping their patron (patron deities exist in FR, remember). Take a neutral, non-jealous God like, oh, say Kelemvor. A cleric of Kelemvor is going to spend at least 90% of his time preaching the word of Kelemvor and doing work to further that God's faith.
The other 10% he might make offerings/prayers to other deities, but I would class that as a mundane, largely irrelevant act in the same class as RPing eating and bodily functions. Its something most characters would do in their private time.
It just has little value from a storytelling point of view. Amian kellies are focusing on issues facing kelemvor, they're not making their organisation look more vague and less united by standing around discussing which other gods they should and shouldnt pray to. Their not considering the dogmas of Tyr or Hoar when making decisions, theyre trying to do what (they think) Kelemvor would do.
If you want a character who is bang-on the lore with how you think a faerunian would be spiritually, considering all manner of different Gods and trying to gain favor with as many as possible, thats fine.
But most players find that just focusing on one deity to influence your characters actions is enough. Most players don't want a character who is pre-occupied with visiting different shrines and acknowledging different gods. It might not be lore accurate, but its how people play, and in my opinion it makes for simpler, less cluttered story building and RP.
_________________
Vaylek - The Worst Guy
Pu Liu - Descendant of the Great River Dragon
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Moonangel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 13:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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Not believing in gods would be like not believing in Elminster... pretty stupid. Not worshiping them on the other hand makes sense really... in RL gods are mystical concepts and such, but in FR, they are more or les mundade, if incredibly powerfull beings. FR gods are persons with flaws, feelings... they can be cheated and even killed, and there are quite a few beings that can match them in power, like some demon lords, the Lady of Pain, or even an epic level adventurer. There's also cases of adventurers becoming gods themselves. (Mystra, Kelemvor, Amia's homebrewn Salandra)
While believing (well, more like knowing) they exist makes sense, it also makes sense to consider them just another type of powerful beings that roam this world, and not all that different from a really powerful epic wizard or other planar creature. If you can literally go up to your god and slap them around given enough power, there's no reason to worship them as such, especially since there are bigger and badder things out there.
I can see why a commoner would worship them but to an experienced adventurer gods wouldn't be all that big of a deal really. Part of religion really is the not knowing and believing and well, faith. The fact that FR gods are so well established with clearly set out powers, as well as flaws and limitations takes away from what I would consider to be the esense of a god.
The closest to a real god in FR I can think of would be AO.
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cinmay
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 14:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Thank you for all the input. It seems that most of you think that LN is the way to go and I think you are right. I also think that Tyr might be the right choice for a deity. I want him to have a "spiritual life" and that's why I want him to find a deity.
On a side note I totally agree that the average person is not an atheist but rather worships an array of gods or perhaps has a personal favorite but not really spending much time on it or willing to preach and pray all day long.
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Polris
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 17:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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Okay, I have a question. If it's so unusual to find someone who doesn't worship a god in FR, how come there's a whole wall built out of non worshipers?
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 17:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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The Mulhorandi don't really count for Vigilantes.
Theres no such thing in the Mulhorandi mindset and a Vigilante would be seen as progressive and ultimately evil.
Horus Re and Osiris are very lawfully minded dieties.
Anhur is as well, but Anhur understands total war which Horus Re and Osiris don't. Hence the reason the church of Anhur obliterated Unther whilst the Church of Osiris failed to annihilate the Cult of Sebek.
If not for 4E lore Anhur would have become a Rival of Tempus because of his increasing influence and worship which probably given a few hundred years would have ended the Third Mulhorandi empire when the Church of Anhur and the Church of Horus Re went to war with each other.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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ainjyll
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 20:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Polris wrote: Okay, I have a question. If it's so unusual to find someone who doesn't worship a god in FR, how come there's a whole wall built out of non worshipers?
Well, for arguments sake I'm going to use easy, round numbers. Let's say that 1 out of 1,000 people don't follow a god. That makes it .1% of the world which is a pretty small percentage. Let's say that Toril has 100 million people. That would mean that 100,000 people will get added to the wall which is a pretty decent sized group of people. Take into account as well that the Wall has existed for some time and that the rate at which people are added is probably larger than the decomposition rate of the souls that are already there. This makes the Wall get bigger and bigger. Although, Kelemvor making other places for faithless to go, may have thrown this out of whack a bit. _________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Gunz
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Posted: Sun, Feb 28 2010, 23:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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MoshingChris wrote: The Mulhorandi don't really count for Vigilantes.
Theres no such thing in the Mulhorandi mindset and a Vigilante would be seen as progressive and ultimately evil.
Horus Re and Osiris are very lawfully minded dieties.
Anhur is as well, but Anhur understands total war which Horus Re and Osiris don't. Hence the reason the church of Anhur obliterated Unther whilst the Church of Osiris failed to annihilate the Cult of Sebek.
You're probably right. But you're talking about culture. One doesn't have to be a part of mainstream culture to get the favor of a god. That's for the DM's to decide. Anhur is actually Chaotic though.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Nathera
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 4:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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If he's not one for laws or authority, I agree that he'll probably be TN or CN. CN works for Tymora, goddess of luck and bravery. And through the PC might not be Mr. Goody Goody two shoes, that god would set a framework for some goals to achieve.
I do wonder if he's more NG. It sorta depends on how far he's willing to go. If a guard accepted a bribe, is that worth killing the guard? When does he murder?
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Sunkin Sheep
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 5:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: San Frantastic, California
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CN. Experience :(
_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 6:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Depending on tactics and methods a Vigilante could be argued to be any of the Good or Neutrals. (Evils are possible, too)
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 8:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, someone who acts on principles of justice and appropriate punishment certainly seems Lawful to me. It has nothing to do with whether he follows written laws. In fact, he's all the more lawful for sticking up to his principles even when it leads him to conflict with the law.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 10:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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I think going for your own principles goes for the moral(good and evil axis), not ethical (law-chaos)
chaotic aligned beings dislike law, and mostly even oppose it, which I assume your character does. By doing good things you should be chaotic good.
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY!
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 11:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Lawfull Neutral.
The character clearly has a moral code that they regard as above common law. Further, it would appear that they regard common ethical dilemmas posed by the strictures of common law as defunct.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Gexx44
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 12:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Location: Denton Texas U.S.A.
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go Lawful Neutral, Hoar
hes god of justice but in a less good guy sense, so this would fit your characters darkside.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Mar 01 2010, 16:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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TeroSNS wrote: I think going for your own principles goes for the moral(good and evil axis), not ethical (law-chaos)
chaotic aligned beings dislike law, and mostly even oppose it, which I assume your character does. By doing good things you should be chaotic good.
Hardly. Lawful is someone who holds himself to certain standards, whatever they are. If someone believed in the methodolocial extermination of all gnomes, and stuck to a personal understanding of justice and principle in doing so, he should be called Chaotic Good by what you just said. When in reality, most would agree he is Lawful Evil. I doubt a vigilante is doing particularly "good" things out of gut instinct and the pureness of his heart, which would imply Chaotic Good. Instead, he does grim and illegal things because his moral code compels him to do so. Having a clear sense of just punishment and consistently pursuing it is probably lawful, whether or not you care about written mortal law. That is a tiny aspect of the metaphysical Law.
Alignment has a contradiction, though: someone who was a consistent and unwavering anarchist would generally be called chaotic, but you must admit he would be very lawful in a sense. The most chaotic person would act lawfully and stick to principles every now and then, because total unpredictability is the essence of chaos.
I'm not sure where you pull the moral/ethical distinction anyway. The words are synonyms, and mean the exact same thing in Latin/Greek respectively. Sometimes, ethics refers to the systematic philosophical study of moral, but that's another matter. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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