Just so you guys know. If my character see's and imp flying around with no master present, he will question it, and if he gets no reply, kill it. Given the nature of Imp's and such, I think thats reasonable.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

It pretty much depends on what sort of familiar is out. Chances are, no matter where you are, you're going to attack an imp, eyeball, mephit, or hellhound on sight. Others might be suspicious in a cavern, such as a raven, but you wouldn't kill it I wouldn't think. It's up to the PC what to kill and what not to kill, and whether his/her character would do so or not.

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--MAINS--
Xanon .: Talonite!
Xiladei .: Amethyst Dragon Disciple.
Ryth .: Returning Elven Archer. Missing for some time.

I wouldn't offer that alone as a reason to initiate PvP. The rules specifically state alignment by itself is not a valid reason.

"I R EBIL" is not good enough, so "I R GUUD" should not be either.

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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

We see evil dogs in the spires, would we not attack the hellhound in front of us in self defense? I didn't say anything about alignment, I'm just saying that wouldn't your character -not- want to be hurt? If the mage doesn't appear, you can assume it is wild and will therefore attack you.

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--MAINS--
Xanon .: Talonite!
Xiladei .: Amethyst Dragon Disciple.
Ryth .: Returning Elven Archer. Missing for some time.

You're still applying IC rationale to a rule which exists for OOC sanity.

It's also perfectly plausible that Nicholas the lunatic could go on a mad killing spree and gut every PC in Cordor until the guards cut him down, but as a PC you don't have that option because the rules don't allow it.

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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

I dont have any mage characters, but if I did, if someone attacked my summons, whatever the excuse may be...I'll open up a can of whoopass on them, then take names later

Firstly, A summons with no master is not a summons at all. It's a creature, like any other. When I see familairs without masters I don't consider them familiars. I consider them animals(or whatever they are).
So IC calling out for its master is either: Lunacy, or metagaming, and many people don't play lunatics.

Secondly, If I try to RP with someone, and they don't respond, I usually assume they want nothing to do with me and leave them.

In this case because you said nothing I would have pretended the summons wasn't even there...or that maybe the player of the mage was afk for all I know. Not knowing what the situation is would stay my hand because I don't want to kill a char whilst someone is afk, and usually after a momet of silence I turn and move on.

They attacked you(or your summons), and got what was coming to them.

Except you, as a player, know you are violating the PvP rules by doing so (assuming you attacked it, or you'd violate the passing rule if you did that). YOU know the summons belongs to a PC whether your PC does or not, so you have to act accordingly on an OOC level.

Is that metagaming? Yes. Every bit as much as my Banite giving an OOC out to a PC he would kill on sight is.

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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)

/topic.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Except they haven't until now.

And Tormak - what does happen if the invisible mage in control doesn't show himself? I didn't see a response to that (I may have missed it).

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

"//Hey, what's your player name so I can hostile you? I can't see you so I don't know who to hostile. If your summon wouldn't attack then tell it to stand ground."

Seriously, you needed to be told this? Just ask them.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

And if they say nothing?

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Their problem, attack at will. You went through the motions and they resisted. The rules are not there for you to abuse to escape retribution.

Mind this means you are sure they aren't AFK, you aren't being a twunt, and you're giving them a reasonable ability to respond to you in a tell. But it seems I need to explain that, too, since you'd question and argue every one tiny little statement I'd ever make, yurell.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Only to make sure I'm not breaking the rules, Tormak, which you have satisfactorily explained. Done baiting me?

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Then inform them of the hostiling rules and explain to them that your PC is going to attack the summon? If thet get funky and exploitive (like waving a zombie in a druids face and refusing to appear for hostiling per se) after that tell a DM?

Yurell...you really could figure this stuff out on your own I'm pretty sure...and I really doubt they wouldn't answer. >.>

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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

Better safe than banned.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Your also assuming you know whose summons it is, can’t very well send a tell to someone that your going to attack the summons if you do not know whose it is and I am not about to send a tell down the list of players to find out.

That rule number 6 says all members of the party, how are you to know every member? Also should summons and such actually be considered members of the party? Yes they show up in party but again they are not PCs.

Many times it has been shouted and said by DMs to stay IC yet on this its being said to always go OOC. What is wrong with players accepting that their summons, familiars, animal companions are not actually them, if the companion is attacked do not make it like you are attacked but instead look at it as someone just thought it was some stray animal or whatever. RP it out that if was a friend of yours and RP out what your character would do in that situation…..see a theme here? RP, instead of constantly finding way to go OOC accept ways to stay IC.

Because if you don't hostile the player, the summon won't fight back. I assumed this to, again, be common sense and for the players to actually understand how Neverwinter Nights and their factions function.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Look at it this way, one quick "//Please send me a tell so I can hostile you." that takes a minute or 15 minutes of OOC drama over the PvP after it's all said and done. I think everyone would rather the former over the latter.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

Such would be done in say... so

"//please send me a tell so I can hostile you"

If said individual does not.. screenshot, send via PM to DM team, move on.

It is really pretty simple.

Regards,

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"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere

Look at it this way also, do not leave your summon unattended or be invisible so others know whose summon it is. That way there is no need for OOC at all concerning it. If your invisible so your summons are killing goblins and such then come visible when someone comes around, if you stay invisible then you should accept that others will see your summons as a lone being and react to it as such. If you leave your summons unattended then your not that concerned about it anyways so why would you get upset if it is attacked, as well as you probably wouldn’t hear the // send me a tell. The one who has summoned whatever it is should take responsibility for that summons, not the one who sees it and responds to it in a IC manner when it is seen alone.

There is no need to punish the one who RPs such things and tries to stay IC with regards to their actions to a apparent lone creature they would normally attack.

But you're forgetting one key aspect....



One of the rules of PvP is setting your opponents to hostile before attacking. The only exception to this that I can think of is if the opposing group begins buffing or taking an action that is an obvious precursor to an attack.

Working within the framework of that rule, you have only a few options that I can see off the top of my head. 1.) Shoot out a quick OOC comment asking for their name so you may hostile them. 2.) Move on with whatever it was that you were doing before you ran across them. 3.)Attack the summons without setting the player to hostile and without any aggressive action by them, break server rules and risk the repercussions thereof.

If someone wants to roll the dice with option 3, they're more than welcome to, I'm sure. Just as a DM's "Big Stick of Temporary Bans and Occasional Pleasure +7" is free to possibly land on your head for doing it.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

attacking summons without hostiling has been a problem for me ( note.. not done by me but done -to- melikly a side effect of almost all my chars being summoned based... lets me notice it more) ) but to the main topic f the post... if they do not awnser u icly send a ooc comment in normal chat informing them that either you wish to hostile them and are unable to do so or to inform them that you cant hear anything they are saying ICly (if they are at all) and as for the invis mage... if it seems like they cant hear you and you are trying to give some form of a responce (by summon or ancient mystical artifact) and should however it end in PvP or otherwise do to a miscomunication or such attempt to clarify what happend... if any player still wants to whine after that just leave em be, if a DM complaines about the oc comment of clarification then to the DM id say, its only 1 or 2 comments ooc for clarification to avoid some ooc mess and as earlier said sore lossers, sometimes ooc is needed t make sure RP can flow as smoothly as possible it may ruin an rp moment but to me... thats better then having some argument afterwards of whos the bigger ninny and who broke what rules.

I don't mean this as an insult, so please don't take it that way - can you please punctuate more? I'm finding it difficult to read your post due to the fact it's an unbroken wall of text.

A few full stops and short paragraphs make it easier to read.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

srry... didnt mean for it to sound negetive... and im bad at punctuating =] normally ill ad lots of '...' to indicate seperatian but im sleepy =]

In both cases a // " who are you so i can hostile you?" we're not done. If they had been it would have promted me to have replied with a tell or something. As for going right up close to them so they could see me, that puts my Character in IC range of their first flurry of blows and puts the mage type at a disadvantage if e.g. they have "knockdown" or can deliver enough dam to take you out with the first blows. It is possible, i have seen it especially on low hit pont mages.

My original question was asked because after they had been defeated they moaned that i had been a bad RP for staying silent and not talking to them and my thought was that staying silent IC is a form of RP, though i do put an emote like " she ignores yours words after a disdainfull/ shocked glance" or somesuch but being invisible means they can not hear this and i didnt think to Tell at the time( despite the fact i did try but didnt know how to make my Summon talk, i do now, so this is moot now. In the case of a " normal" animal type summon/ familiar though i would only have them make animal noises and react like animals).

As for Metagaming it is a summon or familiar. In both cases they were summons. The first was a Arachnid type in the FoD and the second was a Sphinx type ( from a scroll) in the Arachnid hills ( the areas i had been hunting in before the protagnonists turned up) and they immediately RP that their PC's knew them to be summons right from the start.

My feelings were in both cases that they were annoyed that they could not get the first flurry of blows on me that they wanted to. They wanted me to reveal myself so they could attack me dirrectly and not have to fight my summons and in defeating me the summons would disapear. In both cases, because they lost the fight... eventually, (in the two examples it was a close thing because my mage type was relatively low lvl so had non of the instant take down spells etc) they moaned OOC that i had not revealed myself IC and i was bad RP because of it and all i wished to do was clarify this and see if i needed to change completely or what did need changing and how to do certain things like " emote or make my summons speak" ( I always make my summons stand their ground before it all kicks off as the summons following reveals my position).

Thankyou for all your feedback i now know where i went wrong ( didnt think of the OOC tell in my case is all) and where they went wrong ( metagaming the summons, moaning because i stayed invisible etc etc) and i now know how to make my summons speak etc so their OOC sore loosing doesn't happen again. " hugs to everyone" and dont start a heated discussion with each other i would hate to see arguements starting because of a query i posted . Thanyou all.

well... in the case of you sending a tell.. even if you dont at the time, after they start whining it helps to send a " i was trying to get my summon to talk but i forgot how" or sum such, at that point if they still complaine then they are just upset that they failed at the pvp, witch is entirly their fault and you have nothing to worry about =]

Yay! We all helped! Group hug!

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III