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I read a recent topic: Songs for Bards http://amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22140&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

I think it was locked too hastily.

I'm almost 100% sure the poster was referring to the players out there that manage to come up with amazing lyrics on the talk channel and not to the collectible bard songs for the character.

I would point anyone to sites on creativity and songwriting. Both are easily googled.

However some people find writing lyrics much easier than other people but practice does indeed make one a better writer (I know this first hand as songwriting is what I do most... well, when I'm not procrastinating).

Here are some basic tips to get you started:

Don't freestyle in-game. Take care and time on your lyrics. Perhaps write them down in a book specifically for your "songs" (I put songs in quotes as they aren't technically songs without musical accompaniment) to be kept safe and together.
Get a rhyming dictionary or go to sites like http://www.rhymezone.com/. Rhyming is a good way to keep songs in memory and is a good too to help you write by starting with a rhyme and working backwards.
Don't be afraid of stealing lyrics. In general, stealing lyrics and plagiarism is not the way to go if you are writing professionally but in terms of gaming it is nice for a bit of familiarity. Perhaps a nercery rhyme with a dark twist?

I immediately thought the same about that topic: more of a request for actual bard songs rather than game mechanics. Either way, this topic serves its purpose for bard song ideas. I've often wondered myself where some of the bards just come up with lyrics out of the blue.

If for any reason you feel uncreative it might be a good idea to make a list of topics, i.e. shoes, Kelemvor, ugliness, dieting, ale, shadows, your favourite element, weapon of choice, Cordor's sewers, etc., and put them all on separate small rips of paper and randomly pick one from a hat (or whatever).

Next list anything you feel associates wit that topic. list smells, textures, emotions, colours anything that fits! Don't limit yourself to single words either. Sometimes a whole line or a rhyme might occur in your head. Write it down even if you think it's lame. Alterations are possible.

Once you have that second list it is best kept aside as reference for a "song" for later when your creativity decides to come back and say hello. After all inspiration cannot be rushed.

The items on these lists can be added to or altered in future as you see fit. Once you have them they can be inserted straight into songs with minimal effort.

I get drunk.

Uberuce wrote:

I get drunk.

Egh.. me too.
I used to feel that was the best way to allow myself to write. I think it's a confidence thing. Plus everything seems more funny when drunk! I do it loads when writing (DON'T DRINK! IT'S BAD FOR YOU).

I wouldn't be surprised if beer was a favored subject (singing) amongst drunks.

Ruce did that Ode to Gill off the top of his head /in/ RP while drunk. I rest my case. Drink lots, drink often, find pretty girls to sing about. *shrugs*

Some people have the knack. The thing is a player of a bard may not actually live the lifestyle of one. It is after all, a fantasy game. I personally enjoy playing characters that aren't like me (which is why I stay away from playing bards) or do what I do. It wouldn't strictly be role playing if the role you play is actually you. It'd just be a chatroom.. maybe ?

The thing is, if you find playing a bard quite appealing but don't necessarily have the initially creativity to help your RP.. Don't worry, help is at hand.

I dont see any harm in "loaning" already existing "bard" songs, if you give credit where credit is due. (like adding //written by XXXX or saying where you got the lyrics from, at the end of the song)

edit:
Actually, i'm probably NEVER going to have time to make a bard char, and RP with him regularly so heres the ideas i were saving:

Different songs from the Bards tale game, many funny songs in that one.

To get an idea on how the beat of the songs go;

Charlie Mops song

Nuckleavee

Go nuts guys :twisted:

Gravemaskin wrote:

I dont see any harm in "loaning" already existing "bard" songs, if you give credit where credit is due. (like adding //written by XXXX or saying where you got the lyrics from, at the end of the song)

I don't see harm in it either. It's not as if you're getting any financial gain from it.

Copying songs straight up though leaves a massive hole in your soul (creatively speaking)!

I've taken musical numbers from plays and put D&D twits to them... such as:

"Why Can't A Woman Be More Like A Man" from My Fair Lady

into

"Why Can't Human Be More Like An Elf"

The lyrics to Carmina Burana.

Teufel Eldritch wrote:

The lyrics to Carmina Burana.

Heh..great song!

And not all bards are singers...My Bard is an Artist that can carry a pleasing tune, but his speciality is Drawings...

SaphiraAndy, your creativity ideas and starters are great...I would say their good for any situation from creating a song to creating a new character...

http://www.rhymezone.com/

Yea that's a cool link, Teufel Eldritch.

I'd imagine there'd be many standards that would enlighten any listener throughout certain regions and the words/song wouldn't be the important thing but would all be in the performance.

In ancient China there are the "300 poems" or "300 Songs" that were a collection of lyrics that would have been studied by any performer before thinking of getting anywhere in the "industry".

They were a mainly stories of heroes, beautiful ladies etc. and would be said that no song that is made today would be too far from a topic in this collection of over a three hundred songs. Meaning basically that nothing is really an original. Just the same stories re-written.

Disco, thanks for the link. (even though I posted that link up near the top alreadt :D)

I like to use stuff written for the Realms by others. Some books, like the Code of Harpers, have them, you can find them on Candlekeep, in novels, and there's a lot of stuff all around the web.

I'm personally not poetic enough to write them myself, I only come up with silly rhymes. Besides, at least my Oghmanyte rarely writes songs himself, he's not a bard (actually he's pure cleric for now), he just collectes them and sings what others have sung. So it makes sense to use those known across the Realms.

When I'm singing I almost always freestyle in game. The rhymes aren't particularly magnificent or anything but I can usually produce something entertaining for other players to read.

Reference the Turnip Song or the Ailahra Song from Sid Fenton xD

Fun little exercises.

Try these out, making up your own, of course. I have given examples.

Alliteration. Try to type typically true to tons'a toons. (I cheated a bit there, but a little bit of fixing is fair, if you ask me)

Rhyming couplets. The wind blew through her hair unaware I kept one eye upon her heroic stoic posture. (How many did you spot?)

Assonance is good to, but when rhyming beware of pseudorhymes. English is really hard to find true rhymes in.

Also, meter is a god thing to have

Darn, I was totally going to do a bit on half-rhyme and meter next. Are you psychic?

I've been looking for a thread like this to help me with my bard. Thanks Sephira.

For the most part, all of my bard's songs are made up on the fly. I find the most challenging thing is to come up with songs that aren't too repetitive yet still have a good rhyme/flow.

I think rhyme and flow are vital for decent reception.

I have seen some people using lyrics akin to modern pop music, but it always has a kind of "I guess you have to have been there" feel to them, mainly as the music is what drives most modern songs.

Rhyme and tempo really make a difference for players to read and keep interested/entertained. This is what I have noticed from my own experience reading other players' songs and from feedback.

SephiraAndy wrote:

I think rhyme and flow are vital for decent reception.

I disagree about rhyme. So long as meter is there rhyme isn't necessary.

Last edited by AlphaWaves on Fri, Feb 12 2010, 13:00 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I wish that were the case. In general poetry, I'd be 100% behind you on that one, but when it comes to walls of text in the talk channel, it really makes a difference.

I am not the only one that thinks this to be the case, I know for sure.

In other words, I'm not saying no rhyme = bad song. I just know that the ones that do are noticeably enjoyed more.

Yurell wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

I think rhyme and flow are vital for decent reception.

I disagree about rhyme. So long as meter is there rhyme isn't necessary.

It's not -necessary-, but it does make the song easier to follow and remember.

It also makes the song more enjoyable for some audiences. And as an entertainer, you're trying to please the largest audience possible.

Jyro X wrote:

Yurell wrote:

SephiraAndy wrote:

I think rhyme and flow are vital for decent reception.

I disagree about rhyme. So long as meter is there rhyme isn't necessary.

It's not -necessary-, but it does make the song easier to follow and remember.

It also makes the song more enjoyable for some audiences. And as an entertainer, you're trying to please the largest audience possible.

Problem is pseudorhymes - when people use them (and they invariably do) it makes the entire poem just ... break. I know I flinch when I hear anything not a true rhyme.

Or just take lyrics from obscure sources.. Like Discworld

As much as I love that song, if anyone performed it in game in its entirety, I would lose interest after the third chorus.

I can make up rhyming couplets on the fly, a decent limerick (or an indecent one!) takes me ~5 min, and anything else I write beforehand. There's really only one piece Xavi's performed that came from RL and it was my own translation from French then Amia-fied.

Used to love when Justice would bring Vrinn to story night and make up long ad lib rhymes on topics suggested by the audience. And - sorry - but it irks me when someone pulls out a RL song and stuffs it into the game. It just grates on my nerves for some reason.

Most of the stuff I've done can be found either here or here.

Well playing one of the better known bards on the server I hate to say I got a large doc document on my desktop which I usually have running when playing amia, that contains my lyrics that I use when preforming. They range from straight copies, to modified lyrics or self written stuff.

Personally I hate bards that just type *sings* and does a preform role, or those that wiggle around on screen then call it dancing. It should always come with some nice elaborate discriptive posts if you ask me.

As for the special bard songs, learning them from other bards has proven a hard task indeed, no success so far. And I can't say I've thought of a good rp to have a dm give them to me so far.

See, I'm one of those who can do it, but can't really explain how it's done.

Much of my music IRL starts out as poetry, and then later becomes lyrics as I add music to it. I've found that if I can get the poetry down, it later sometimes becomes easier to work out the melody and then reword and conform the words to fit the music.

(Do you get to listen? No. Because my voice is terrible and I honestly have no business singing, but it's a good creative vent.)

Anyway. As far as my bardly songs go, I've found that it's easy to use a simple rhythm and rhyme scheme. Much like you'd hear in a Johnny Cash song, or "The Devil Went Down to Georgia", or something similar.

Edit: And yes. My Bard's music does have a melody, and often times, an accompanying guitar bit. =P

Speaking as a DM, I don't think less of your bard because you haven't written lyrics. I don't think better of you because you have.

I have to side with Yurell here. Poetry doesn't have to rhyme. But at the same time, Andy makes a good point that's a rule for me as a songwriter (both lyrically and musically). I write all my pieces with an audience in mind.

You can't write a poetic master piece and expect the players of Amia to be in shock and awe at your talent. I would imagine most people don't know that much about it on Amia. This is a game, not a poetry club after all. You want to write something that's aimed at a target and your target is, generally, the non-writer.

All that said, just because we as players understand this, doesn't mean our characters do. So if your PC is some super poetic dude that doesn't care about his audience, good on you. Do it. Sometimes you'll find that people with that attitude gain an audience because their pieces just happen to click with a certain type of person(s).

Take bebop jazz for example. That music was generally written by musicians who were stroking their own egos. Most didn't care worth a damn if people didn't like it. They had the mentality that if people didn't understand their musical prowess, they didn't deserve to listen anyway. Arrogant as hell, but it proved a success for a great number of bebop musicians. A lot of amazing music came out of that era in jazz.

Also, sorry Andy, but I have to disagree with the "no free style" rule.

If you want to free style and that's what your character would do, do it! By all means! I've been witness to some amazing free style.

The best piece of advice I can give you on a platform like Amia is, do what your character would do. Good and bad poetry is a reality of both the real world and FR. But if you'd like to learn more about how to help your writing, I can give you a few exercises for you to try that will improve your skill. Just let me know through a PM.

The muse helps those who help themselves. Remember that. That is, the muse comes to those who write even when they're not inspired. You have to work that creative muscle out, just like you work out anything else.

There's an exception to every rule. Cerri spent her first year freestyling, and did nothing but. *blows on nails* Throw out a subject and she'd riff. Some may remember....

*chaCHING*

..Anyways, I kept my poetic crap on the forums. I think I've only got two "written" bard songs, other than that, the best bardic roleplay of my life has been almost 100% freestyle

Wow, when did my tips become rules? Hehe. I don't mean it to be the only way to approach things.

Quote:

Speaking as a DM, I don't think less of your bard because you haven't written lyrics. I don't think better of you because you have.

Meh, I never gave thought to DMs when creating this. It's mostly about flavour.

I simply see a lot of elitism being tossed and it's good to remember the other side of the fence: That some people look at the effort and not the result.

What's that got to do with anything here, Tormak?

The intense vibes of "if you don't do this, you're a bad bard RPer." And that is simply not true.

Holy necropost batman!

Rewording already existing songs is a nice place to begin. Helps people notice a certain flow in the songs and such.
Although with Rhymezone on your bookmarks, you should be able to freestyle on the fly without any problem.

Doesn't matter if it's not all perfect and such. Keeping the flow is more important. And occational phrases that sound really well and maybe repeats helps to build a good song. I'm fairly sure that most songs anyone hear, only 10-15% of it sticks after hearing it. The rest is simply gone. And the stuff that sticks, is usually a repeating phrase, sentence or flow in the music.

Also helps to write down songs you already made up, or rewrote and such.. work on them and maybe repeat them from time to time. Help perfect them or alter them to the crowd and such.

TormakSaber wrote:

The intense vibes of "if you don't do this, you're a bad bard RPer." And that is simply not true.

I've seen people use RL songs as bards and execute them well and with a lot of verve. Or people who emote singing by describing what the song is about without actually using lyrics (I've done it myself, too). But for some reason, the former happens to bother me where the latter doesnt. It's a matter of personal taste, really, just as we choose the people we RP with based on their styles and personalities. In some ways I think it's like the language issue that was addressed in another thread - just because someone doesnt speak/write English well doesn't make them a bad RPer, but some people have trouble with it. Is that elitist? I dont know. Does the fact that I wont listen to rap because it gets on my nerves make me elitist or racist? :wink:

I can't write songs to save my life.

My bard will likely always use already-written songs. Because I have the poetic ability of a retarded preschooler.

That being said, those of you that can? Woohoo, have at!

Those of you that can't? I feel your pain.

A classically trained bard shouldn't primarily perform his own songs anyway, but rather recount ancient tales in traditional verses. The elitism among bards concerning correct performance is quite prominent, as you can see in Elfsong. They're not just jolly singers, they're sages and keepers of history. Of course, not everyone who takes the Bard class has to be like this, but no real bard would call you a bard IC if you didn't meet some standards of formal training and knowledge.

Convert Poems into Songs.

Works quite well if you can do it.

To me, Effort is the priceless commodity in RP, not excellence for several reasons. The people that sit there and stick with driving it, determined, with concrete make me proud, and inspire me to praise them for that effort.

I've gotten praise for my rp before from folk but I don't feel I am worth it. I think it's largely due to the stints of lack of motivation I have. I'm a character actor, I need someone to interact, or react with. It's like having a fancy car, but no-where to go.

I wish I had the same gumption as I see in others. I always go out of my way to try to help the people putting in the effort. It makes me feel bad when I see others not doing so. These people want to learn, and are trying, and being supportive in that situation seems to be the best thing to do to me.

Quote:

As I walk through the dungeon where I dish out the pain
I take a look at my undead army and realize it's very plain
But that's just perfect for an Necromancer like me
You know, I shun fancy things like long livety

And I've been killing' and slayin' so long that
Even Valsharon thinks that my mind is gone
I'm a man of the dead, I'm into discipline
Got a bone arm and a beard on my chin

We been spending most our lives
Living in an Necromancers paradise
I've raised corpses once or twice
Living in a Necromancers paradise
It's hard work and sacrifice
Living in a Necromancers paradise
We sell corpse' at discount price
Living in a Necromancers paradise

Even converting other songs is rather easy.

In some cases you just need to change a few words.

Quote:

I know I may be young, but I’ve got feelings too and I need to do what I feel like doing so let me go and just listen.

All you people look at me like I’m a little girl.
Well did you ever think it be okay for me to step into your world.

Always saying little girl don’t step into the dark.
Well I’m just tryin’ to find out why cause drow are what I love.

Get it get it, get it get it (whoooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (whoooooa)(do you like it)
Get it get it, get it get it (ooohhhh)(this feels good)

I know I may come off quiet, I may come off shy.
But I feel like talking, feel like dancing when I see this guy.

What’s practical is logical. what the hell, who cares?
All I know is I’m so happy when you’re standing near.

I’m a slave for you. I cannot hold it; I cannot control it.
I’m a slave for you. I won’t deny it; I’m not trying to hide it.

Baby, don’t you wanna, hit up on me,
(I just wanna cry next to you)
To another time and place.
Baby, don’t you wanna, whip it on me,
(are you ready)
Leaving behind my name and age.
(lets go)

(like that)
(you like it)
(now watch me)

Get it get it, get it get it (whoooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (whoooooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (ooohhhh)
[panting]

I really wanna dance, tonight for you.
(I just can’t help myself)
I really wanna do what you want me to.
(I just feel I let myself go)

I really wanna dance, tonight for you.
(wanna see you move)
I really wanna do what you want me to.
(uh uh uh)

Baby, don’t you wanna, cut up on me,
(I just wanna dance next to you)
To another time and place.
Baby, don’t you wanna, cut up on me,
(are you ready)
Leaving behind my name and age.

I’m a slave for you. (take that) I cannot hold it; I cannot control it.
I’m a slave (it just feels right) for you. (it just feels good)
I won’t deny it; I’m not trying to hide it. (baby)

Get it get it, get it get it (whoooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (whoooooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (ooohhhh)
[panting]

Get it get it, get it get it (whoooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (whoooooa)
Get it get it, get it get it (ooohhhh)
[panting]

I’m a slave for you. (here we go now)
I cannot hold it; I cannot control it.
I’m a slave for you. (here we go) I won’t deny it, (yeah)
I’m not trying to hide it.

A britney spears song converted into some terrible drow slave torture song. Not that the lyrical changes really made it any more horrible then it already was.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Quote:

*cut hack cut hack stab mangle*

A britney spears song converted into some terrible drow slave torture song. Not that the lyrical changes really made it any more horrible then it already was.

I foresee a thread for drow-ified Britney Spears songs... :shock:

Drow are sadistic aligned and they conduct psychological warfare on their enemies Xavi.

HellScourgeTheAwesome wrote:

As I walk through the dungeon where I dish out the pain
I take a look at my undead army and realize it's very plain
But that's just perfect for an Necromancer like me
You know, I shun fancy things like long livety

And I've been killing' and slayin' so long that
Even Valsharon thinks that my mind is gone
I'm a man of the dead, I'm into discipline
Got a bone arm and a beard on my chin

We been spending most our lives
Living in an Necromancers paradise
I've raised corpses once or twice
Living in a Necromancers paradise
It's hard work and sacrifice
Living in a Necromancers paradise
We sell corpse' at discount price
Living in a Necromancers paradise

That is f'ing awesome! I need a Palemaster Bard now....

Songwriting for Bards

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