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Kraniumbrud
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 Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:14 AM |
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Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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Ive had the strange impression that this is getting rather common, and i was wondering if theres a stance on dragon deciples of cromatic dragons that are good...
I was under the impression that to be a dragon deciple one..actually devotes themself to a special dragon, and one would be evil to devote one to a evil dragon subtype...valueing the traits of that speciial dragon..
the endless greed and lust for tyranny of the red...the feral evil of the white and so forth..or is dragon deciple just a class you can take at your leisure and then ignore?
after all..they do become half dragons at level 9 i belive...dosnt that force one to stay evil?...with the immense taint of the cromatic evil..which is fixed 100% as far as I understand
*edited*
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Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:21 AM |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Views differ widely.
My interpretation of how myself and my peers view it (which could very easily be wrong), is that it's 'relatively bad', because it sorta of breaks the typical line of RPing what your Race/Class -is-. Good Aligned Red Dragon Disciples, Evil Silver Dragon Disciples, Good Aligned Tieflings, Evil Aasimar, etcetera.
Frowned upon, but not outlawed or unpermitted. I know they won't get DCs from me, though, due to my heeeavy lean on Lore.
One key fact to know is that Draconic Races are, from before hatching, their alignment. It's not nurture - it's nature. Dragon Disciples by virtue of what they're doing, are naturally going to be encountering this more and more.
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Mostly Retired
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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WonWon wrote: Views differ widely.
My interpretation of how myself and my peers view it (which could very easily be wrong), is that it's 'relatively bad', because it sorta of breaks the typical line of RPing what your Race/Class -is-. Good Aligned Red Dragon Disciples, Evil Silver Dragon Disciples, Good Aligned Tieflings, Evil Aasimar, etcetera.
Frowned upon, but not outlawed or unpermitted. I know they won't get DCs from me, though, due to my heeeavy lean on Lore.
One key fact to know is that Draconic Races are, from before hatching, their alignment. It's not nurture - it's nature. Dragon Disciples by virtue of what they're doing, are naturally going to be encountering this more and more.
thank you for that wonwon, but the dragon deciples becomming Half dragon, dosnt that affect thier allignmeent even more..forcing them to stay evil?
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Dragon Disciples never become Half Dragons, truly. They instead take on some of their traits, and mechanically become Half Dragons, in regards to statistics, abilities, and powers.
Interestingly, most DD's on Amia miss this, and take it a bit further;
Dragon Disciple
Half Dragon
(the one on the left is a half-black, the right is a half-fiend)
But that's just being padantic. People can have their flavour. The Alignment isn't automatic at being a half dragon, but it is a very strong hint. I could buy the one-step rule, basically. CN or NE Red Dragon Disciples, LN or NG Silver Dragon Disciples, etc.
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Mostly Retired
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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yea that makes sense...think it can be implemented?
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Not likely. We try not to enforce or guide those sorts of things too much. It's bad enough we do it for Divine Spellcasters / Shifters. We prefer the carrot to the stick; that being, rewarded RP.
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Mostly Retired
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I was under the impression they do become half dragon, and the picture is just one of a lower level. Not that it states so in the DMG, it's just the impression I got.
Apart from that, I view the alignment of a DD to be whatever it was before they 'activated' their dragon blood, and as they gain more levels the natural alignment of the dragon urges more and more strongly.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 6:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Yurell wrote: I was under the impression they do become half dragon, and the picture is just one of a lower level. Not that it states so in the DMG, it's just the impression I got. Naw. RDD's and Half Dragons are very different. First point is, of course, the fact that Half Dragons don't actually get wings unless they're Large size or bigger. There's quite a few differences, even their breath weapons work slightly differently, etc. Yurell wrote: Apart from that, I view the alignment of a DD to be whatever it was before they 'activated' their dragon blood, and as they gain more levels the natural alignment of the dragon urges more and more strongly.
That's the way most of us see it. An RDD is going to be heavily inclined towards Chaos and Evil, especially one with a fair few levels. I'd say the point where you start getting +INT and +CHA being the point where in it starts having a heavy effect on your mind.
That said, these aren't rules enforced.
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Mostly Retired
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Moonangel
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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One can not chose what dragon type to dedicate themselves to (IC that is). If you have red dragon ancestry, you are stuck with that... I think it makes sense that a good character discovering this untapped power may try to use it for good, though since red is what hes stuck with, he cant just decide to go silver cause it would fit his aligment more. He would be forced to become a red dragon disciple, but that does not mean he cant use the gained power and perks to continue doing his good work.
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Really Evil Pigeon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:12 AM |
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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WonWon wrote: Dragon Disciples never become Half Dragons, truly. They instead take on some of their traits, and mechanically become Half Dragons, in regards to statistics, abilities, and powers. Interestingly, most DD's on Amia miss this, and take it a bit further; Dragon Disciple Half Dragon (the one on the left is a half-black, the right is a half-fiend) But that's just being padantic. People can have their flavour. The Alignment isn't automatic at being a half dragon, but it is a very strong hint. I could buy the one-step rule, basically. CN or NE Red Dragon Disciples, LN or NG Silver Dragon Disciples, etc. This is sorta what I wanted to ask the dm team stance on such.. but saying that there seems to also be a dm's negetive veiw that there can't be pretty rdd's I think there was a quote of "looks like another anime rdd, you should be at home amoung amia" or something like that.. I may have taken the quote out of context, but i really wanted to know the stance on rdd's I asked in the lore thread about lore for rdd's and such. WonWon wrote: Yurell wrote: I was under the impression they do become half dragon, and the picture is just one of a lower level. Not that it states so in the DMG, it's just the impression I got. Naw. RDD's and Half Dragons are very different. First point is, of course, the fact that Half Dragons don't actually get wings unless they're Large size or bigger. There's quite a few differences, even their breath weapons work slightly differently, etc. Yurell wrote: Apart from that, I view the alignment of a DD to be whatever it was before they 'activated' their dragon blood, and as they gain more levels the natural alignment of the dragon urges more and more strongly. That's the way most of us see it. An RDD is going to be heavily inclined towards Chaos and Evil, especially one with a fair few levels. I'd say the point where you start getting +INT and +CHA being the point where in it starts having a heavy effect on your mind. That said, these aren't rules enforced. and this is something i wanted to really rp with my rdd, I had her becomming more possessive.. and slowly becomming more vain.. she went from being beyond politeness (Almost Narathiir Politeness) to now she will say thankyou for flattery, but she will not say it is unneeded.. but I am closing in on my intellegence point.. so i expect her to change again.
I found this interesting to read, is there any more dm points of veiw on rdd so we can endevour to play the class how you would like it to be?
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RuffTuff
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Location: Clock Town
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In PnP, they essentially do become half-dragon, in a sense. It's a special ability called the Dragon Apotheosis.
"At 10th level, a Dragon Disciple fully realizes his draconic heritage and takes on the half-dragon template." - DMG
I don't know how or if this translates to Amia at all, but that's the 3.5 core class.
And then there's also the debate between true half-dragon and half-dragon through template... Apples to apples.
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Kira Cottonfoot - Hin Bardess
Kirby Cottonfoot - Arcane Trickster
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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Moonangel wrote: One can not chose what dragon type to dedicate themselves to (IC that is). If you have red dragon ancestry, you are stuck with that... I think it makes sense that a good character discovering this untapped power may try to use it for good, though since red is what hes stuck with, he cant just decide to go silver cause it would fit his aligment more. He would be forced to become a red dragon disciple, but that does not mean he cant use the gained power and perks to continue doing his good work.
nope it dosnt make sense...cause a good char should not devote himself to evil forces...even if they have teh heritage...
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Really Evil Pigeon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:45 AM |
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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Kraniumbrud wrote: Moonangel wrote: One can not chose what dragon type to dedicate themselves to (IC that is). If you have red dragon ancestry, you are stuck with that... I think it makes sense that a good character discovering this untapped power may try to use it for good, though since red is what hes stuck with, he cant just decide to go silver cause it would fit his aligment more. He would be forced to become a red dragon disciple, but that does not mean he cant use the gained power and perks to continue doing his good work. nope it dosnt make sense...cause a good char should not devote himself to evil forces...even if they have teh heritage... It's not heretiage per'se, or it is.. but most sorcerers have it. it's the fact dragon disciples devout theirself to be like dragons, they want to be like there parents hence.... most are the alighnment.. or atleast close to that alighment of what ever dragon they emulate.
//Poster is a spastic and may not have the right spelling words or even context
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Ramika
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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One may not be able to choose what dragon heritage they have, but they certainly can decide whether or not they explore it and become an RDD. If a good character with a Red Dragon heritage decides to explore that heritage, well, chances are by the time they hit RDD 10, they 'ent gonna be good aligned anymore. Neutral, at best, because of the mental changes that undergo.
As the player of a half dragon, the biggest complaint you'll hear from her is, "Why are they complaining? They chose to do this."
Pidgey: Note, I'm not a DM, but! I don't think it's the 'Pretty RDDs' that really get under peoples' skin. RDDs generally retain most of their human/elven/whatever looks, if I understand correctly. Amia just seems to inspire the "I'm not a half dragon, but I look like it" characters. However, It's the RDDs that describe themselves as freakshows, then say, "This beautiful dragonkin...." that seem to inspire the "WTF?" response. That's the complaint I usually hear, anyway. If you've got a muzzle, horns, wings, scales over 90 percent of your body.... chances are, you 'ent 'beautiful.' Not in the sense most of us would take it as, anyway. I think something like, "While attractive in their own way, a few things stand out..." might sit better when discussing someone who's 10 RDD.
Using Rras for example; he's a half dragon... but he is, by no means, describe or even RPed as 'attractive.' I think that's why he generally sits well with most players who are heavy on lore. Or my Jordis. Again... While she's not the walking freakshow (Sorry Dwagin  ) that Rras is, I don't describe her as "beautiful" because of the simple fact she's a half dragon. She's not going to be the next Cindy Crawford. (She's actually kind of funny looking, but has some 'pretty' qualities.)
And if you want to have Dominique change again when you hit the stat changes, I'd say go for it. The whole point to being a disciple is to get those changes and become 'one with the blood.' (Making up a phrase there.) With the intelligence and Charisma boosts, chances are she would becoming more cunning and more aware of how to use her wily charms than she is now. More possessive. Etc. What you were discussing. You know. Like a Red.
Not sure if that helped at all, I'm kinda tired, but there ya go.
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Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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I more often than not find it slightly amusing how people that are part dragon, only take the wings or claws or eyes from the dragons, but keep the rest to be all beautiful and whatnot. Half dragons are ugly looking things.. just look at the pictures!
But hey, live and let live.. let people play and do what they want to, regardless of alignment or whatever.
Just don't expect my chars to always be nice about it. 
More than one of them, amuses himself by guessing heritage or life story on people that pass by, based on armor, colors, and heritage.
Don't be a stereotype if you play RDD I say.. go with the respective dragon's alignment for your char and take both good and bad traits in the forms of appearance. (Because sadly, that's the rare thing on Amia. Most go different)
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 7:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Moonangel wrote: One can not chose what dragon type to dedicate themselves to (IC that is). If you have red dragon ancestry, you are stuck with that... I think it makes sense that a good character discovering this untapped power may try to use it for good, though since red is what hes stuck with, he cant just decide to go silver cause it would fit his aligment more. He would be forced to become a red dragon disciple, but that does not mean he cant use the gained power and perks to continue doing his good work.
By standard established lore that the Amia Server typically uses, and that of the DM Team; You're very incorrect.
An individual with a glimmer of Red Dragon Blood can be good aligned. That's true. However in becoming a Dragon Disciple, they are deliberately, and purposefully, embracing such a creature and its natural, physiological and (due to the details of what Dragons are, and how they work) psychological factors.
It's not a tool you can use for Good readily, because it isn't just a tool - it's a corrupting force that you are, willingly, embracing. There's no half-hearting it, period.
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Mostly Retired
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 8:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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WonWon wrote: An individual with a glimmer of Red Dragon Blood can be good aligned. That's true. However in becoming a Dragon Disciple, they are deliberately, and purposefully, embracing such a creature and its natural, physiological and (due to the details of what Dragons are, and how they work) psychological factors.
It's not a tool you can use for Good readily, because it isn't just a tool - it's a corrupting force that you are, willingly, embracing. There's no half-hearting it, period.
I agree with that one.
You don't see Palemasters or Shifters "half-hearting" their stuff.
The results would be equally comical, to the people that think good red dragons are funny, I think.
It'd be like a Palemaster that wants to create the perfect live creature. Or a shifter that wants to learn just one or two forms.
Or an assassin that really wants to be a paladin, that backstabs.
Yeah, a lot of people may think "Ooh.. what an arse", but sadly.. when you make a good chromatic RDD, Sorc/Pal, physically gorgeous looking thing that's crossed between one or two rather ugly or different sized creatures... it's GOING to be picked on by someone.
I'm all for playing as you want it, but don't expect everyone to like it. I have little to no interest in people that meet the pre-requisites above. Mostly because it's been done so many times before, that my chars are simply too bored or uninterested and can guess 90% of their background after 10 minutes..
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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Ramika
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 8:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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Gravemaskin wrote: I more often than not find it slightly amusing how people that are part dragon, only take the wings or claws or eyes from the dragons, but keep the rest to be all beautiful and whatnot. Half dragons are ugly looking things.. just look at the pictures!
Half dragons vary just as much as anything else. A half dragon doesn't necessarily have to be a walking freakshow. The picture above is just an example of one type. Using Jordis again, I purposely didn't make her completely 'dragony.' She lacks the barbels of a gold dragon, or the 'horns'. (Mostly because I hate the horned heads. I admit that.) Instead, I pointed her ears in a similar manner to the horns. I've seen a picture of a half silver (in the Draconomicon, I think) that looked mostly human, except she was silver skinned and had the frill of a silver instead of hair, with claws on feet/hands, and wings. I went a little more human with Jordis just for the pure fact she's A) young and B) still becoming in touch with her own blood and learning about it. However, she has talons on her hands and feet, wings, scales, and her features are larger and 'harder' than that of a human. It's obvious what she is.
I think the general consensus is that people have to go to one extreme or the other with their dragonkin... I can understand that with a half dragon (they really do end up like freakshows), but not with most RDDs. If you have 1/10th of red dragon blood, a muzzle shouldn't magically appear. Some scales, maybe, but not a muzzle. And chances are, your alignment will start to change as well. (That's just personal opinion however.)
This excludes half dragons that use the RDD class to represent their dragoness. (I chose not to do that, myself.)
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Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 8:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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I have been trying to RP mine as close as possible to his current alignment, though I commit some slips sometimes that will soon make me go 'wtf? *slaps self* 'you are doing it wrong. focus!'". I honestly, truly hope, not out of vanity but because I feel bad in doing something that goes against the lore, that I have been doing a good job.
Thankfully, though, considering some recent OOC comments, I believe I am doing it right. If not fully, at least to some degree.
On what concerns appearance, I kept his appearance closest to drow because he is vain and I assumed that since he controls how much of his dragonblood he can tap, he is able to control the changes of his appearance. If he is looking more like a half-dragon and less like a drow, he will stop, which is what he did.
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BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 8:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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WonWon wrote: Moonangel wrote: One can not chose what dragon type to dedicate themselves to (IC that is). If you have red dragon ancestry, you are stuck with that... I think it makes sense that a good character discovering this untapped power may try to use it for good, though since red is what hes stuck with, he cant just decide to go silver cause it would fit his aligment more. He would be forced to become a red dragon disciple, but that does not mean he cant use the gained power and perks to continue doing his good work. By standard established lore that the Amia Server typically uses, and that of the DM Team; You're very incorrect. An individual with a glimmer of Red Dragon Blood can be good aligned. That's true. However in becoming a Dragon Disciple, they are deliberately, and purposefully, embracing such a creature and its natural, physiological and (due to the details of what Dragons are, and how they work) psychological factors. It's not a tool you can use for Good readily, because it isn't just a tool - it's a corrupting force that you are, willingly, embracing. There's no half-hearting it, period. I strongly agree with Won's post.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 8:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Ramika wrote: Gravemaskin wrote: I more often than not find it slightly amusing how people that are part dragon, only take the wings or claws or eyes from the dragons, but keep the rest to be all beautiful and whatnot. Half dragons are ugly looking things.. just look at the pictures! Half dragons vary just as much as anything else. A half dragon doesn't necessarily have to be a walking freakshow. The picture above is just an example of one type. Using Jordis again, I purposely didn't make her completely 'dragony.' She lacks the barbels of a gold dragon, or the 'horns'. (Mostly because I hate the horned heads. I admit that.) Instead, I pointed her ears in a similar manner to the horns. I've seen a picture of a half silver (in the Draconomicon, I think) that looked mostly human, except she was silver skinned and had the frill of a silver instead of hair, with claws on feet/hands, and wings. I went a little more human with Jordis just for the pure fact she's A) young and B) still becoming in touch with her own blood and learning about it. However, she has talons on her hands and feet, wings, scales, and her features are larger and 'harder' than that of a human. It's obvious what she is. I think the general consensus is that people have to go to one extreme or the other with their dragonkin... I can understand that with a half dragon (they really do end up like freakshows), but not with most RDDs. If you have 1/10th of red dragon blood, a muzzle shouldn't magically appear. Some scales, maybe, but not a muzzle. And chances are, your alignment will start to change as well. (That's just personal opinion however.) This excludes half dragons that use the RDD class to represent their dragoness. (I chose not to do that, myself.) These are other examples of half-dragons.
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BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Ramika
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 9:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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Jordis' model ICly is fairly similar to the last picture you posted, Dri... Only she's gold.
Like I said, half dragon variety! Spice of life. Alignments... not so much variety. To quote Yurell, "I agree with Ron."
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Kaldaris
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 9:26 AM |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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For no particular reason, I thought I would produce more images of Dragon Disciples illustrated according to Wizards of the Coast.
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Warning; Troll Crossing.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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There are classes in PnP that allow you to change/add limbs.
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"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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What about the reverse? Ron's point seems to say that, regardless, the RP is what really determines things, over all?
So, let's say individual with neutral good dragon blood decides to unlock their potential, and does so.. does all the IG / IC RP to purify, whatever you decide to use to justify the ends, everything - but in the process they meets up with someone who they, for =whatever= reasons, associate with who are Evil. Their alignment IC / IG changes, by a DM, from Neutral to Lawful Evil, due to the long term exposure.
As they begin to be corrupted by it, and thus their alignment -changes-, would their dragon blood change too?
Or would it go away?
Or would it be a purely OOC change, representing the fact that the same thing happened to any one who was corrupted by evil?
Regards,
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- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Their Draconic Blood may not change, but their abilities to further harness it may be vastly affected - coming from the fact that with the significant change from the dragon they're encompassing, making any further work quite difficult.
They would still remain a Dragon Disciple of a Good Aligned Dragon, and any powers they had earned until that point would likely remain, but it is much akin to a Monk who becomes non-lawful - Further progression becomes extremely difficult to the point of impossibility. (I won't say outright impossibility, because our rules do not say you can't make, say, an Evil Gold Dragon Disciple.)
Edit in; Mind, the above is my ascertation of it. The Lore never actually goes that deeply into it, so it comes down to judgement calls.
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Mostly Retired
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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So, in your mind, if the character achieved the RDD (or in this case, insert appropriate good aligned dragon blood) before becoming corrupted and the alignment changes, they'd keep whatever powers they had at that time, but once the alignment has gone too far (or simply isn't the appropriate alignment for the dragon, depending upon the campaign / DM decision) then they wouldn't be "in touch" with their "heritage" enough anymore to develop any new powers?
That makes sense to me.
Regards,
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"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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It is what I understood, yes.
And in the case of someone wanting to be good, he would not be able to be good all the time because the evil blood would be stronger.
With luck, he would not kill anyone. By a miracle, he could turn neutral.
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BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Ramika wrote: Gravemaskin wrote: I more often than not find it slightly amusing how people that are part dragon, only take the wings or claws or eyes from the dragons, but keep the rest to be all beautiful and whatnot. Half dragons are ugly looking things.. just look at the pictures! Half dragons vary just as much as anything else. A half dragon doesn't necessarily have to be a walking freakshow. The picture above is just an example of one type. Using Jordis again, I purposely didn't make her completely 'dragony.' She lacks the barbels of a gold dragon, or the 'horns'. (Mostly because I hate the horned heads. I admit that.) Instead, I pointed her ears in a similar manner to the horns. I've seen a picture of a half silver (in the Draconomicon, I think) that looked mostly human, except she was silver skinned and had the frill of a silver instead of hair, with claws on feet/hands, and wings. I went a little more human with Jordis just for the pure fact she's A) young and B) still becoming in touch with her own blood and learning about it. However, she has talons on her hands and feet, wings, scales, and her features are larger and 'harder' than that of a human. It's obvious what she is. I think the general consensus is that people have to go to one extreme or the other with their dragonkin... I can understand that with a half dragon (they really do end up like freakshows), but not with most RDDs. If you have 1/10th of red dragon blood, a muzzle shouldn't magically appear. Some scales, maybe, but not a muzzle. And chances are, your alignment will start to change as well. (That's just personal opinion however.) This excludes half dragons that use the RDD class to represent their dragoness. (I chose not to do that, myself.) I should probably have spesified that it was more directed at thoose that do what I said, with the intention of getting their char romantically involved and so on, as if it is a social server only. It is just too obvious in those cases, which is probably why catlings (or whatever you want to call it, so it sounds like something other than part cat sexdolls) are banned.
Wasn't taking a swing at any char in particular either. Was just my personal opinion and dislike of such. (And yes I realise the irony, having a fey char with maxed out cha. But to be fair, he's too much of a git)
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 10:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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FA_Frey_XC wrote: So, in your mind, if the character achieved the RDD (or in this case, insert appropriate good aligned dragon blood) before becoming corrupted and the alignment changes, they'd keep whatever powers they had at that time, but once the alignment has gone too far (or simply isn't the appropriate alignment for the dragon, depending upon the campaign / DM decision) then they wouldn't be "in touch" with their "heritage" enough anymore to develop any new powers?
That makes sense to me.
Regards,
Spot on.
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Mostly Retired
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Dwagin
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 13:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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I don't know what you're talking about, Rras is handsome.
Long claws. Heavy scales, digitigrade legs.. slightly off centered fanged muted muzzle.. head and spine frill.. earfins.. modest horns from the top of his head, ultra strong forehead with his over-developed brow, non-existent nasal bridge, wide nostrils. Forked tongue.. overdeveloped TMJ muscles. Getting whacked in the head by wings, sharp scales, tiny spines, and razor claws shredding drapes... the couch, your sleeve.
The lovely scent of char, and sulfur... claw marks all over the nice hardwood floors, and shredding your rugs simply because he's walking on them. Breaking furniture by flopping into it. A likely carrier of all sorts of lovely things like e.coli, and who knows what else due to his penchant for uncooked beef and pork, and arachnid and disease immunity.
...I should stop there lest I excite you too much.
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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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xordae
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 13:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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oshizo2
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 13:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: USA, Mississippi
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well it's ashame really i've seen many good alinged chromatics. hey even neutral chromatics make sense to me, but good alinged. some even worship bahamut and are paladins and such. this saddens me.
i do like the idea of getting to far away from the dragons alignment puts you out of sync and prevents you from furthering your heritage. it actually makes sense.
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Iman Emanni: Learned, wanderer, dangerous
Jurl Blackskull: Why people fear the underdark.
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drahgon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 14:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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oshizo2 wrote: well it's ashame really i've seen many good alinged chromatics. hey even neutral chromatics make sense to me, but good alinged. some even worship bahamut and are paladins and such. this saddens me.
i do like the idea of getting to far away from the dragons alignment puts you out of sync and prevents you from furthering your heritage. it actually makes sense.
Reminds me of how many people freaked out at me when my chromatic killed a metallic in cold blood lol
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Keelah Se'lai
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 14:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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I was always under the impression that a RDD could have a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of dragon blood in them and become a disciple and that they never became half-dragon and that it was pretty much accepted that if you wanted to play anything with a lot of dragon blood in it, you needed DM approval. Is this wrong?
I'd also add that the Silver Disciple I still toy with from time to time bears some traits of her heritage, but in slightly more subtle ways. Silver hair and silver eyes that have a more lizard-like iris are the two most noticeable. This is ignoring the very obvious wings, of course.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 15:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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All magic and biology aside, the notion is absurd from a symbolic point of view: to become Dragon Disciple is to strive to become like a dragon. It is much like religion, and the internal logic is the same. You would not, and pyschologically probably could not, aspire to become something you revile.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 15:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Iron.. Does this mean we're actually agreeing on something that's loosely alignment based?
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Mostly Retired
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 15:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Bah, if you put it like that... 
But yeah: it's about values and ideals. I suppose an evil-tinted PC might be a Metallic Dragon Desciple, because it's quite possible to believe and strive to be good, but fail due to pride and ignorance (though you'd probably have a harder time unlocking some of the powers, because I like to think it's emotion-based. You imiate the dragon). But to be a good PC who consciously strives to embody the cruelty, avarice and rage of an evil dragon makes absolutely no sense. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 15:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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WonWon wrote: Iron.. Does this mean we're actually agreeing on something that's loosely alignment based?
I feel the same sense of awe, and it didn't even take us three pages to reach a conclusion we were both satisfied with 
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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P Three
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 16:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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My issue with this is people assuming because, say, Cailet worships a good god, even though she's a white, she's "good".
She's not.
She's CN. She can (and has) gone after people with a murderous rage for bumping her in the street.
Yes, she has the blood of an evil creature. But she also wants to balance that with her elven blood so she's /not/ a psychotic murdering monster. She's smart enough to know crazy bitches that stab people don't do well in life. She embraces the power that her blood gives her, she is proud of /both/ sides of her heritage (all three, if you count her adopted heritage), and seeks to bring them both out in balance. She doesn't think she's a dragon, nor does she think she's fully an elf.
Or, conversely, because Elrien is a drow and a silverkin, she's bad.
She's also gone through a bunch of fully-rp'd crap that led her down the path she's on, and she's neutral, not good. (Personally, I find I do better with neutral, I'm not as good at playing Good or Evil.) Yes, Drow are evil. Yes, /she/ was evil. Until that changed, she couldn't access that part of her blood, it was antithetical to her nature. Now that she's moved more toward the light, it's become easier for her to embrace that part of her heritage.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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CatInBox
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 16:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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I should point out that in the Tome and Blood book of wizards for the 3.5 games, it clearly descibes that you HAVE to pick your draconic heritage before going DD. In doing so, you've already set yourself for whatever alignment your character is.
For my own silver DD, My RP is simple. Only six generations from her draconic line, however MOST children born of this line only show small changes at this point (white hair, longer canines, sharp fingers (not "claws" but they are a bit pointed)). However by Training, meditation and a FOCUS on bringing out her draconic bloodline, she begins to become a bit more draconic in looks and nature ((scales, breath, wings)).
Put pure and simple, by the way the Tome and Blood book describes it, you have to WORK at being more in touch with your draconic heritage. In doing so you become more and more like what your ancesters were like. That means doing things that -they- would do, so if your a good aligned character with the "curse" of tainted blood of a chromatic line, becoming an RDD means that you are CHOOSING to become more evil, due to the fact that you have to work at it so much to get past even being able to breath fire (gas, electric, etc).
((personal edit: Tormak is probably clawing his eyes out right now reading this thread ))
_________________
akai tsuki akai tsuki
tsumi wo okashi ta monodomo no
kegare wo kiyomeru
akai tsuki
koyoi wa dare ga umarekawaru
koyoi wa dare ga umarekawaru
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 20:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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CatInBox wrote: I should point out that in the Tome and Blood book of wizards for the 3.5 games, it clearly descibes that you HAVE to pick your draconic heritage before going DD. In doing so, you've already set yourself for whatever alignment your character is.
Got to make a distinction between player choosing things and character choosing things.
Obviously, the character cannot choose the type of a dragon disciple they can become any more than a Mulan can choose to be born Rashemi instead. Only the player chooses this background information for the PC they're creating. A mean DM won't let you even choose your heritage: he'll roll dice.
But yes: I haven't read Tome and Blood, but what you describe is pretty much how I've always imagined RDDs to be. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 0:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I must say I agree with the view Iron has been agreeing with (which is probably the only time we've agreed outright ). I must say how they are portrayed in Tome of Blood is how I imagine them too.
And Iron! Calling me a mean DM like that 
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 0:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Stalking around.
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IronAngel wrote: A mean DM won't let you even choose your heritage: he'll roll dice.
That's one the the silliest things I've ever heard, it's like needing to roll dice to determine if you're playing an elf, a dwarf, a human, etc, or if it should be LG, LN, etc, or to specify where it was born. People get to choose everything else and create the concept they wish to create, I'm struggling with wondering what they were thinking. _________________ Get Ready for ItForum lurker.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 0:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Depends on the Campaign, actually. A rule / set like that would actually work quite well in a campaign I ran a few years ago. Lots of draconic bloodlines, etcetera. Raw chance was involved alot of the time.
That said, that's more relevant in a PnP Game where you've got a DM 100% of the time.
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Mostly Retired
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 1:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Sylfwe wrote: IronAngel wrote: A mean DM won't let you even choose your heritage: he'll roll dice. That's one the the silliest things I've ever heard, it's like needing to roll dice to determine if you're playing an elf, a dwarf, a human, etc, or if it should be LG, LN, etc, or to specify where it was born. People get to choose everything else and create the concept they wish to create, I'm struggling with wondering what they were thinking. I disagree - you chose your character at creation, and chose to become a Dragon Disciple and explore whatever draconic abilities you may have. You do not, however, control the past 400 generations of NPCs to give yourself the pedigree you want. You get a Kindergarten Surprise, just like your character, when you finally discover what kind of dragon you're descended from.
As for choosing everything else ... well, no they don't. They don't choose their ability scores, it's up to the DM whether they're nobility or commoners - in fact, everything else is either accepted or refused by a DM.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 1:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Stalking around.
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Yurell wrote: Sylfwe wrote: IronAngel wrote: A mean DM won't let you even choose your heritage: he'll roll dice. That's one the the silliest things I've ever heard, it's like needing to roll dice to determine if you're playing an elf, a dwarf, a human, etc, or if it should be LG, LN, etc, or to specify where it was born. People get to choose everything else and create the concept they wish to create, I'm struggling with wondering what they were thinking. I disagree - you chose your character at creation, and chose to become a Dragon Disciple and explore whatever draconic abilities you may have. You do not, however, control the past 400 generations of NPCs to give yourself the pedigree you want. You get a Kindergarten Surprise, just like your character, when you finally discover what kind of dragon you're descended from. As for choosing everything else ... well, no they don't. They don't choose their ability scores, it's up to the DM whether they're nobility or commoners - in fact, everything else is either accepted or refused by a DM. I'm not refering to PnP, that's why it's a part of an extensive background you fashion for yourself.
I guess it would make much more sense in a decicated campaign on the matter, I was just addressing it as a matter of a server implementing it. _________________ Get Ready for ItForum lurker.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 1:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I wouldn't mind seeing it on this server, either, although I know it will never happen.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 1:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Stalking around.
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You must like all dragons to say that, I would never play anything mildly related to chromatics, it would go against my inner ethics and I would be betraying the metallics. _________________ Get Ready for ItForum lurker.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 1:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Sylfwe wrote: You must like all dragons to say that, I would never play anything mildly related to chromatics, it would go against my inner ethics and I would be betraying the metallics. That's why you stop when you find out what your character is related too, just like your character would
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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