|
|
|
CragOneEye
|
 Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 5:50 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Location: Ontario
|
|
How does detect alignment work on this server RP wise? ie detect evil or detect good for example.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Drakos_Vek
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 5:59 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
|
|
The free use of it is not allowed I believe. As in, you can't just cast it on someone without any discussing of it beforehand. I think I read that it was only allowed to be cast, if BOTH parties consent to it, (The caster and the target).
Not sure, but the same might apply to truth seeking spells.
_________________ Kerath Zau'tar - Underdark commander and thief - Scheming and lurking. Derryn de'Drenise - Watcher of Helm - Scolder of witches and wizards
|
|
|
|
|
|
Guxx
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 6:01 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
|
|
The general rule for any PnP spell/ability not represented mechanically is that ALL parties affected must consent. This goes beyond the caster and the target if there's others present who might be affected.
I believe the example given before was scrying some one who has been kidnapped. Obviously the person kidnapped wouldn't mind but their kidnappers might, and they're obviously going to be affected by it.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
HellScourge
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:24 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
|
Don't forget to read the PnP rules for it though.
Detect Good
I hope that is close enough to the real thing.
Anyone feel free to correct me. _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:27 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
All Extra-NWN material must be mutually consented by all parties involved.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
hendrack
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:29 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
|
|
And if one dude decides he wants to use one of those antti-detect spells/abilities for himself, all parties again must agree to the whole ordeal or can he do that silently? Seems a bit of too much fuss for all involved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:40 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
Use it if the other person gives permission, otherwise just ignore its existence entirely.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:52 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
hendrack wrote: And if one dude decides he wants to use one of those antti-detect spells/abilities for himself, all parties again must agree to the whole ordeal or can he do that silently? Seems a bit of too much fuss for all involved.
All parties agreeing to use Detect Good/Evil etc is automatically consent for those involved to use their antidetection. Counters are automatically assumed permission if the original is cast. Ergo if you areunscryable and someone scries you, you may consent, then say the scry fails, and do not need to declare consent for the anti-scrying spell/whatever.
Mind that this falls within common sense. You don't immediately cast Planar Anchor because someone else cast a Detect Good. Entirely different spell line and need sit own consent.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:53 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
BTW, agreeing and then lying about it OOCly with any IC counters is bad sportsmanship IMO.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:56 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
No idea what you're trying to say there. If I am undetectable, and you try to Detect me, I will go "I consent, and you promptly detect nothing."
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:58 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
TormakSaber wrote: No idea what you're trying to say there. If I am undetectable, and you try to Detect me, I will go "I consent, and you promptly detect nothing."
No, no, that's perfectly fine, your post agree with completely, what I'm referring to is this:
Player 1 asks permission, Player 2 grants it.
Player 1 casts the spell, Player 2 is evil but tells player 1 that he detects that he is good.
That sort of thing.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 8:59 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
...but if that is what his counter does, there there is no issue.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 9:00 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
TormakSaber wrote: ...but if that is what his counter does, there there is no issue.
Indeed. If there's an IC reason for it, I have absolutely no problem, it's if there isn't that annoys me.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jyro X
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 9:31 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
|
Yurell wrote: TormakSaber wrote: No idea what you're trying to say there. If I am undetectable, and you try to Detect me, I will go "I consent, and you promptly detect nothing." No, no, that's perfectly fine, your post agree with completely, what I'm referring to is this: Player 1 asks permission, Player 2 grants it. Player 1 casts the spell, Player 2 is evil but tells player 1 that he detects that he is good. That sort of thing. Yes, counters come in to play but people (IMO) must have an IC reason for being able to manipulate spells in such a way. A fool-proof way to battle this is to have the player consent to report their alignment from the rest menu, assuming they have no IC reason/way to battle/counter the detect spell. In that regard, the person casting the spell must also have an IC reason to do so/the means to do so. For instance, a fighter isn't going to be able to cast it. Not everyone in Faerun knows how to just manipulate and block mind spells, which is what I believe Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law is. I could 99% be wrong though. As far as Detect Good goes, Quote: Divination
Level: Clr 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 min./ level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You can sense the presence of good. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.
1st Round: Presence or absence of good.
2nd Round: Number of good auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the power of the most potent good aura present.
If you are of evil alignment, and the strongest good aura’s power is overwhelming (see below), and the HD or level of the aura’s source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.
3rd Round: The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
Aura Power: An good aura’s power depends on the type of good creature or object that you’re detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one strength category, the spell indicates the stronger of the two.
So, they'd have to have mind immunity or some such to block/counter the spell if you ask me. When it comes right down to it, you must ask yourself whether it is really paramount to RP to cast such spells and bother with all the OOC risk of drama instead of just handling it all IC without casting any PnP spells. _________________  
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 9:49 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
Quote: For instance, a fighter isn't going to be able to cast it.
Items are also capable of doing it, for better or worse. Quite a few characters out there have items that would make them ping up as good/evil/law/chaos despite their "real" alignment.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Really Evil Pigeon
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 14:27 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
|
TormakSaber wrote: Quote: For instance, a fighter isn't going to be able to cast it. Items are also capable of doing it, for better or worse. Quite a few characters out there have items that would make them ping up as good/evil/law/chaos despite their "real" alignment. *Coughs* and it is never taken off.. ever ever!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nathera
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 16:14 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
|
|
What of DMs using these spells?
_________________ 
|
|
|
|
|
|
QPR
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 16:29 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
|
|
DM's can do whatever they want, more or less. Thats why they are called Dungeon MASTER's.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bobo_Underhill
|
Posted: Mon, Feb 01 2010, 16:40 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
|
|
From what I understand, pretty much. Before I became a DM, I was in some event of Tormak's that sucked me out of Bendir Dale, and some folks scryed for Lyle with a DM's help. He checked if I had any non-detection I believe, and reported back.
If you want to use PnP spells and abilities, though, when a DM is using them, just ask and see. More than likely you'll get it.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 4:55 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
Nathera wrote: What of DMs using these spells? As a dungeon master, we do not need your consent to do anything related to PnP. If we tell you to roll a will save, you roll a will save. We don't really need your consent for much of anything, really, aside from permaing your character. Whether or not the DM allows you to use PnP stuff in their eevnt is always at their discretion, of course, but for me, personally, I will generally let you do the stuff, however I will also strictly enforce things like casting time, components, and spell slots. Scrying needs a mirror or a pool of water, for example. And god help the poor man who casts Wish when I'm around. Quote: DM's can do whatever they want, more or less. Thats why they are called Dungeon MASTER's.
That is the shorthand but I didn't want to come off like an over-authoritative douche. It is implied that the DM will take your character's saves and counters into account if they have them, such as in Bobo's example with the anti-detection.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:19 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
|
But regarding player vs player, the 'detecter' need's to ask for permission?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
hendrack
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:23 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
|
|
Found a better way of detecting evil with Mosh some time ago: smite evil. Smite hits or misses, bad. Smite fails, good. If the char refuses to take my "gods judgement", my pally assumes you're bad.
Last edited by hendrack on Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:24 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
|
Mjah....you need to apply PvP Rules to that. Sort of ...
I think it easily can get messy.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
hendrack
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:24 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
|
|
Well of course, I'll ask the char nicely if he wants to go along. It's not like my dwarv pally goes around smiting each member of a party, but reserves this for dubious chars who pretend to be all goodshoe. Me and Mosh actually had one dude go along with it and it was nice to RP out.
Last edited by hendrack on Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:28 PM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:28 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
-"Let me hammer you in the head! If it doesn't hurt as much as it should, you're clear. "
-"But if it hurts more than it should; I'll HACK YOU TO BITS!"
Well, er.... Would be fun to witness. But i would 'suggest' taking a less brutal aproach 
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
hendrack
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:30 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
|
Technically, if a smite evil fails the char doesn't get hurt at all. But convincing someone of that is the funny part. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:31 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
hendrack wrote: Technically, if a smite evil fails the char doesn't get hurt at all. But convincing someone of that is the funny part. Oh god you're totaly a blackguard in disguise!
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dark Immolation
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 22:42 PM |
|
|
Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
|
|
A good question comes from this though, and I hope a DM can answer:
Do Paladins realize when their smites fail? If so, either visually or just a gut feeling of "Hmm, that ain't right."?
I say visually because in the past (on another server), I liked to emote one of my paladin's smites engulfing the target in "holy fire" momentarily. If the creature/person didn't "catch on fire"so to speak, he realized the target wasn't (intentionally) evil. On Amia, are smites something we have creative freedom to emote as well?
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 23:09 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
You'd know if your Smite didn't work, both as a Paladin/CoT and as a Blackguard.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mobile_Svensk
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 23:16 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
|
TormakSaber wrote: You'd know if your Smite didn't work, both as a Paladin/CoT and as a Blackguard.
Visually, hence you see it fail; or just a gut instict?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Tue, Feb 02 2010, 23:17 PM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
That is leftup to your creative interpretation. You would know, though.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 0:23 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
hendrack wrote: Found a better way of detecting evil with Mosh some time ago: smite evil. Smite hits or misses, bad. Smite fails, good. If the char refuses to take my "gods judgement", my pally assumes you're bad.
That's a good way to go about it.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
TormakSaber
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 0:26 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
|
|
Not necessarily, depending on deity. I don't want to see Paladins of Ilmater, god of "let' not make people suffer" cracking people upside the head to see if they're eil or not.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 0:28 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
TormakSaber wrote: Not necessarily, depending on deity. I don't want to see Paladins of Ilmater, god of "let' not make people suffer" cracking people upside the head to see if they're eil or not.
Of course, it does come down to RP, but I do know the people in question aren't Ilmaterites.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrainSplitter
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:04 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
|
hendrack wrote: Technically, if a smite evil fails the char doesn't get hurt at all. But convincing someone of that is the funny part. If Smite Evil fails you've just unjustly attacked a (likely innocent, or at least non-evil) man, likely without their resistance.
Hihi, Fall.
_________________
Mostly Retired
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:06 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
WonWon wrote: hendrack wrote: Technically, if a smite evil fails the char doesn't get hurt at all. But convincing someone of that is the funny part. If Smite Evil fails you've just unjustly attacked a (likely innocent, or at least non-evil) man, likely without their resistance. Hihi, Fall. Hmmm, if there's an agreement, and they just use their hand? Hand against armour wouldn't hurt at all ... unless the smite is successful.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrainSplitter
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:09 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
|
|
You still do damage, and you're still attacking, and you're still attempting to smite a man you claim to be evil. Your judgement being very wrong, obviously, if it doesn't trigger.
Smite Evil isn't Detect Evil with a Tap. It's Smite Evil. You don't strike a man, as a Paladin, just to find out his alignment.
_________________
Mostly Retired
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrainSplitter
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:11 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
|
|
Additionally... The patenthesis underlines the point that is irrelevant to the target.
Evil Man;
"(Let me hit you to) detect if you're evil"
"No"
"Then you're evil!"
Good Man;
"Let me hit you (to detect if you're evil)"
"No"
"Then you're evil!"
The logic used doesn't work. It actually comes down to coercion against either man.
_________________
Mostly Retired
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:15 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
|
Someone is skulking around and being shady, and they're in your party or with you. They've not your trust, and you've sufficient doubt to do away with them. So, instead you offer a chance - you will punch their breastplate with your hand (that would seriously hurt the paladin more than the person in question - if they refuse this last chance, you'd already decided they were to be off with anyway, so it makes no difference. If they accept, you perform the test and if it passes some of your doubts are alleviated.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrainSplitter
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:23 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
|
|
Yet, if it passes, you've still struck a man. Irrespective of the damage, you have attempted to - using a deity granted ability - strike a man with an attack used to, well, smite evil.
If they deny the hit, they aren't necessarily evil, and ultimately, it's a method that is going to get you looked down upon by -many- deities.
Either...
You hit, it does nothing, and you've just attempted to smite evil a non-evil person. Shady or not. Bad.
You hit, it works, and you're fine. Good.
You hit against the target's will, it does nothing, you've just attempted to smite evil a non-evil person, outside of a combative context. Very Bad.
You hit against a target's will, it works. You've just attacked a man, evil or not, who wasn't presenting a fight. Less Bad.
You don't swing at all - You remain unknowing.
Paladins don't have to be merciful, but a certain amount of Law is required to go along with their Good, in regards to the paladin's code. That involves such simple things as;
Don't attack someone who isn't prepared to fight.
Don't attack someone who is unarmed.
Don't attack someone who is disabled.
Paladin's Code is limiting. Great Power = Great Responsibility.
_________________
Mostly Retired
|
|
|
|
|
|
Grymia
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:24 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
|
|
[quote=WonWon]Paladin's Code is limiting. Great Power = Great Responsibility.
[/quote]
Quoting For Emphasis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:26 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
WonWon wrote: You hit, it does nothing, and you've just attempted to smite evil a non-evil person. Shady or not. Bad. I disagree with this - you attained permission to do so first. And you only it their armour, to make sure that they receive no injury. WonWon wrote: You hit against the target's will, it does nothing, you've just attempted to smite evil a non-evil person, outside of a combative context. Very Bad. Definitely agree. WonWon wrote: You hit against a target's will, it works. You've just attacked a man, evil or not, who wasn't presenting a fight. Less Bad.
Agree again.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrainSplitter
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:29 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
|
|
Out of all of the deities that a paladin can be a paladin of, I can see very few of them condoning a Smite Evil against a Non Evil individual, when the only reason you're smiting them is to -see- if they're evil.
If you Smite Evil a non-evil man, but have plenty of backing to believe he's actually evil, then sure. You'll get off easy. You think he's evil, you're smiting him, done.
But what you are doing isn't just hitting the man. You're attempting to SMITE EVIL (note the ability itself) on an individual that you don't even know whether or not they're evil. That's the clincher.
_________________
Mostly Retired
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:32 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Hmmm, I think there we just run into a difference of opinion - I don't view using an ability that does no harm in any way such as that as bad, whilst you do for it is the attempt to cause harm. So we ma as well just agree to disagree ... keeping in mind, of course, that since your the DM it's your opinion that matters  (Of course, if you wish to discuss it further I'd be happy to, I'm just putting this here so that I don't face accusations again of being contrary for the sake of being contrary, and would rather be doing it for discussion, not that I think you're one of the people that would be levelling said accusations).
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dark Immolation
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:36 AM |
|
|
Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
|
|
A paladin using Smite Evil to find out if someone is evil or not is like a Ranger stabbing shady looking humanoind in a specific place and saying "Well, if he's a troll(my favored enemy) I just stabbed his XYZ troll organ and it jurt him, and he's a troll. If not, well I just stabbed some guy who isn't a troll."
Smiting Evil is a direct calling of the deity of "Strike this person down, in your name" pretty much, using the paladin/CoT/BG as a medium. It's not something that can be half-arsed. You have to -intentionally- strike the target with a force you would of a combat blow for it to even work. There's no "Hey gods, smite this guy just a little bit, so I can see if he's one of us or not."
In other words, it's like shooting someone with a silver bullet to see if they're a werewolf. You can't control the "force" of the bullet(smite) once you pull the trigger. And wether they're a werewolf or not, it's still going to harm them. In the first case, just considerably more. Wether they gave you permission or not, if you shoot them, and they ain't a werewolf, well then, you just shot someone for no justifyable reason.
Last edited by Dark Immolation on Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
|
xordae
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:36 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
|
|
You do not "punch armor" and make it a Smite. When you Smite, you aim to utterly destroy something that you KNOW to be Evil. What you are suggesting is a cheap dodge around the issue that you can't use Detect Evil on a target unless there's consent. And what you're suggesting is to make Smite Evil something that is not, a tool that you can use for alignment detection.
Smite Evil is reserved for honorable combat of the Paladin against an Evil adversary. Both must be aware of the combat taking place and the Paladin must be sure the target is Evil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:45 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
Dark Immolation wrote: In other words, it's like shooting someone with a silver bullet to see if they're a werewolf. You can't control the "force" of the bullet(smite) once you pull the trigger. And wether they're a werewolf or not, it's still going to harm them.
I disagree with your analogy - a silver bullet will do the same damage to a werewolf as it would to a human. Whereas smite evil will not do anywhere near as much damage to a non-evil as it would to an evil. It can be two orders of magnitude greater I believe.
On top of that, punching someone with combat strength in the plate armour is still laughable as far as pain goes.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
762
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:47 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
|
xordae wrote: You do not "punch armor" and make it a Smite. When you Smite, you aim to utterly destroy something that you KNOW to be Evil. What you are suggesting is a cheap dodge around the issue that you can't use Detect Evil on a target unless there's consent. And what you're suggesting is to make Smite Evil something that is not, a tool that you can use for alignment detection.
Smite Evil is reserved for honorable combat of the Paladin against an Evil adversary. Both must be aware of the combat taking place and the Paladin must be sure the target is Evil.
This.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yurell
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:49 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
|
762 wrote: xordae wrote: You do not "punch armor" and make it a Smite. When you Smite, you aim to utterly destroy something that you KNOW to be Evil. What you are suggesting is a cheap dodge around the issue that you can't use Detect Evil on a target unless there's consent. And what you're suggesting is to make Smite Evil something that is not, a tool that you can use for alignment detection.
Smite Evil is reserved for honorable combat of the Paladin against an Evil adversary. Both must be aware of the combat taking place and the Paladin must be sure the target is Evil. This. Also: 'Honourable combat'? What kind of evil adversary to they usually fight honourably so that they can employ Smite Evil as such? The only times I've seen it used are when the paladins are invading the homes of these creatures and butchering them, or are being ambushed.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
|
|
|
|
|
|
xordae
|
Posted: Wed, Feb 03 2010, 5:58 AM |
|
|
Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
|
The honorable combat is a restriction on the Paladin's part, not the enemy's. 
|
|
|
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Login
