AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The latest PvP rule update

Just FYI, no specific incidents please.

I love the rule. There were many times my character was double or triple teamed. When I cornered one or two for payback they pulled the ooc permission nonsense.

Also I hate the level three with a huge mouth. If you wish to rp that fine. just face the consequences for doing so.....i did, and my char wasn't even mouthy then.

Bonuses:IC Consequences
Negatives: badly trumped up reasons for pvp

I also remember many times i was stopped by powerful drow, asked questions to which there was no right answer and killed. Without the need for permission this will be an issue.

I think there should be KoS. It would allow evils to be evil, have a reason for fear, and goodly fanatics.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

I think there should be KoS. It would allow evils to be evil, have a reason for fear, and goodly fanatics.

Welcome to Griefland.

A while back my faction had a KoS agreement with another group and it worked out fine. We discussed it OoC and I took a screenie of them agreeing to the KoS agreement and no issue ever arose. So, if you want to use KoS, just get the permission of the character's player, cover your butt with a screenie and everything should be fine.

How about killing without PvP? I've seen some groups of people picking other characters on the road and taking them to the altar of sacrifice. After picking someone up and putting it to the altar, he would be killed. My question is:

Does it require following PvP rules and giving a way out too?

KoS wouldn't give a reason for people to fear anything. It would be destructive to the server as well. Death penalties, however, would solve that. But that's another thread.

Dead wrote:

Does it require following PvP rules and giving a way out too?

Even with less strict PvP rules, I'm 90% certain that you still need permission from the player to pick up their unconscious body and drag it off somewhere to be sac'd. You probably want to wait for a DM to give a more official ruling, though.

As far as I'm concerned, a dead body has no rights and complaining to me that you got dragged off to be sacrificed "without your consent" will have me ask you "Are you alive?" "No." "Then you're getting sacrificed."

I wasn't talking about dead body lying on the road for unknown reason. I was talking about picking someone who was going to hunt, dragging him alive to sacrificial place, than "cutting his throat" or whatever.

Well, if you're dragging him alive then you've probably already subdued him via, you guessed it, PvPing. So yes, you need to follow the PvP rules.

My permission giving for someone who wanted to PvP me usually consisted of me dropping darkness on them when they were in mid threat and running like a little girl >.>

I kinda like the new thing though, having to oocly ask permission when you have a really good reason to kill them always struck me as somewhat...silly. Though giving an out is perfectly reasonable. Generally though, I make my own outs. Like running. Or finding distractions. ((I once escaped PvP on another server by pointing over someones shoulder and screaming, then hasting away. Highlight of my PvP career.))

This isn't new.

Shhhh let me indulge my fantasies about the newness of this rule. I haven't PvPed in forever.

DolphinRacer wrote:

Shhhh let me indulge my fantasies about the newness of this rule. I haven't PvPed in forever.

Nekhy's Post:
"02/08/2008 04:17"

In 1969, Jack Vance wrote a wonderful set of four books about the planet Tschai (Planet of Adventure). In the third book (I think) they fought against the dirdirs. Dirdirs hunted humans that entered their sacred land and human entered the sacred land due to the fact that a rare kind of precious gem could be dug out of the ground there (much like opals are been dug out in Australia). One part wanted wealth, the other part wanted to kill the first part. All rules clear.

Why not copy that idea and make an island on Amia with a lot of crafting resources (reason to go there) and make just that island a full PvP zone where everyone is free to kill anyone, with a penalty? If you take the boat there, you know what you are doing and can't complain afterwards. You can even grant the ear from the slain victims as a trophy to the killers to further raise the stakes on that island.

1: It would keep the trigger happy characters around in a place where they can kill each other.
2: It would let the rest of us role play in peace.

swe_west_coast wrote:

Why not copy that idea and make an island on Amia with a lot of crafting resources (reason to go there) and make just that island a full PvP zone where everyone is free to kill anyone, with a penalty? If you take the boat there, you know what you are doing and can't complain afterwards. You can even grant the ear from the slain victims as a trophy to the killers to further raise the stakes on that island.

1: It would keep the trigger happy characters around in a place where they can kill each other.
2: It would let the rest of us role play in peace.

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Including! The new Gnome-Hunt Minigame quest!

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Complete with a new hidden travelling merchant, with new RP items! Including feral child, teddybear, and cheap bags of holding, and access to the new Lantanese ranged items, including the Gnomeblaster Spearapult!

** Spearapult ammo only available from travelling merchant.

swe_west_coast wrote:

In 1969, Jack Vance wrote a wonderful set of four books about the planet Tschai (Planet of Adventure). In the third book (I think) they fought against the dirdirs. Dirdirs hunted humans that entered their sacred land and human entered the sacred land due to the fact that a rare kind of precious gem could be dug out of the ground there (much like opals are been dug out in Australia). One part wanted wealth, the other part wanted to kill the first part. All rules clear.

Why not copy that idea and make an island on Amia with a lot of crafting resources (reason to go there) and make just that island a full PvP zone where everyone is free to kill anyone, with a penalty? If you take the boat there, you know what you are doing and can't complain afterwards. You can even grant the ear from the slain victims as a trophy to the killers to further raise the stakes on that island.

1: It would keep the trigger happy characters around in a place where they can kill each other.
2: It would let the rest of us role play in peace.

REAL RP doesn't involve conflict! It involves sitting around a campfire and doing absolutely nothing day in day out. That's the life of an adventurer.

@ Dwagin: LOL

TormakSaber wrote:

REAL RP doesn't involve conflict! It involves sitting around a campfire and doing absolutely nothing day in day out. That's the life of an adventurer.

In all seriousness, while my previous post was tongue-in-cheek for good fun, Tormak, and swe's ideas are right. IC conflict = Good. OOC conflict = bad tho.

Conflict is the spice of life in FR. Adventuring for fame, fortune, greed, lust for power, in the name of your god, to prove yourself, clashing between the forces of good, evil, and just opposing views... I wish everyone was less afraid of PvP and bad stuff(TM) happening to their PC's. Bad stuff is suppose to happen. Its suppose to test your characters' mettle and make you stronger, or at least get you and a bunch of your friends hopping mad so you go lay the smack down on whomever dented your grill, as it were.

No, his ideas are terrible. They imply that anyone who isn't going to be sitting around at a teaparty happily conversing should pack up and go to an island, and should totally segregate themselves. That's not how FR works and damned if that;'s what the server becomes. This is a multiplayer server and sometimes you will ICly meet people who want little more than to gut your face and throw you on a pike.

Deal with it.

I'm afraid I'm with Tormak on this one. "If you want to fight, go to this island, everywhere else is a safe zone" seems a really bad idea to me - it strips confrontation out of everything. I could be the bastard necromancer taunting the Kelly Paladin and just refuse to go to the island.

In addition to the likelihood that the island would turn into a giant OOC Arena.

I mean the general idea of spicing up conflict.

Not the specific idea, for the outlined reasons.

We are going to segregate Mago? Let's do it!!! :lol:

Last edited by Dwagin on Tue, Jan 26 2010, 1:59 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Yurell wrote:

I'm afraid I'm with Tormak on this one. "If you want to fight, go to this island, everywhere else is a safe zone" seems a really bad idea to me - it strips confrontation out of everything. I could be the bastard necromancer taunting the Kelly Paladin and just refuse to go to the island.

There's a logical gap in that; why all pvp would magically teleport there.

A place which would have cause for conflict for shines would draw people there for the shinies, and fighting may/will occur. That particular idea might have merit. Not too dislike the gold rush and claim jumping. There are entire games based off this concept, EVE is one of them, as is CIV. A great portion wars in the real world have started/caused due to natural resources, competition over resources, or concern for safety of self or one's own resources. I feel the base essence of the idea has merit, in conflict because of sought rare minerals.

The jump of logic of this isle suddenly becoming the only place to fight suddenly is completely irrational. No where did he say "And make the rest of Amia a PVP free zone."

Edit:

Though what he did say could be taken that he doesn't like PVP. You can infer things from that.

Tormak's inference of SWE's intent is logical. But please don't lump me in with the 'PVP makes you a bad RPer crowd' because I do not feel that way.

In regards to the discussion about turning Amia into a no-pvp server, Amia is a no-pvp server if your character takes their out - which is given in 90% of all pvp confrontations.

Just because your character thinks they're stronger than they really are and has no problem taunting everyone doesn't make them immune to another character swatting them down in PvP.

Point being: If you wanna play a character with a chip on their shoulder or that is unwilling to back down to an evil person, good person, person with differing opinions, be prepared for confrontations and don't whine about it when it happens.

Creating a separate area to fight over is just making a PvP Arena, something which would insinuate the wrong thing about this server, that it's PvP oriented.

Yurell wrote:

Creating a separate area to fight over is just making a PvP Arena, something which would insinuate the wrong thing about this server, that it's PvP oriented.

I agree with my whole heart.

It's up to the PC Playerbase if they want to make, let's say - Cordor Outskirts a warzone, where Pvp is allowed in every aspect.

But that's gotta be followed up by some decent IC Reasons.

Do not 'ask' for a warzone, make one yourself.

I gotta chime in here, I agree with Tormak.

Forests are dangerous, towns at night are dangerous, even some during the day(kinda like an oldwest cowtown you go into the salloon for a drink you might get shot for looking at someone wrong) mountains are dangerous, not only denizens you might run into but the creatures that inhabit it, surfacers in the Underdark are asking for it for the most part and vica versa. Adventuring is a risk, there is no reward without risk. Adventurers are brave maybe even stupid depending. Once an adventurer takes that first step out of the protective presence of the guards of a given city they are putting there very lives at stake. If you don't wan't the threat of death at every turn...be a farmer!

PvP is part of the game IMHO. If my toon sees something he/she is totally against he/she is going to do something about it and may die trying...even if ooc'ly I know the player and toon causing the conflict of my toons nature will more than likely turn him/her inside out. If it's within the alignment and right with his/her attitude beliefs or whatever my toons toast, beaten, devistated, plain and simple. lol Now that's RP'ing

I do have a question about assassins since I have one up and coming. Does an Assassin have to set to hostile a target he plans on killing or can I just send them a tell and work something out? From what I understand, once a target is hostile a majority of the assassins abilities are pretty much useless. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I'll need to know pretty soon as he's nearing epic level and plans on taking contracts.

Any PvP requires hostile. Whatever gave you the idea thta an assassin's spellikes don;t work with a hostile target?

I had an assassin on another server and his paralizing attack wouldn't work if the target was Hostile. Simular to a monk's stunning fist I thought they had to be undetected and in stealth for it to be applied.

For Death Attack to Paralyze:

Quote:

Notes

* Added in the expansion packs.
* Death attacks are made whenever an assassin would qualify for a sneak attack, regardless of the target's combat state. (If an assassin also has a sneak attack, the game only reports "death attack" to the player.) In particular, death attacks can be made with ranged weapons if within 30 feet of the target.
o All death attacks deal bonus damage, but not all death attacks trigger a paralysis save.
o The bonus damage stacks with that for sneak attacks, including the blackguard's sneak attack.
o As with sneak attacks, the bonus damage is not multiplied in the case of a critical hit.
* A death attack only triggers a paralysis save if the target is not engaged in combat, as per this feat's description.
o As all attacks in a flurry are effectively simultaneous, there will be a saving throw for each attack in the opening flurry of combat.
o The difficulty class of the saving throw is 10 + assassin level + intelligence modifier.
o The duration is 1 turn per assassin level.
* The damage continues to increase in epic levels at the rate of 1d6 for every 2 levels (i.e., 6d6 at level 11, 7d6 at level 13, and continuing up to 15d6 at level 29).
* As of patch 1.66, immunity to mind-affecting spells no longer makes a character immune to death attack paralysis.

TormakSaber wrote:

For Death Attack to Paralyze:

Quote:

Notes

* Added in the expansion packs.
* Death attacks are made whenever an assassin would qualify for a sneak attack, regardless of the target's combat state. (If an assassin also has a sneak attack, the game only reports "death attack" to the player.) In particular, death attacks can be made with ranged weapons if within 30 feet of the target.
o All death attacks deal bonus damage, but not all death attacks trigger a paralysis save.
o The bonus damage stacks with that for sneak attacks, including the blackguard's sneak attack.
o As with sneak attacks, the bonus damage is not multiplied in the case of a critical hit.
* A death attack only triggers a paralysis save if the target is not engaged in combat, as per this feat's description.
o As all attacks in a flurry are effectively simultaneous, there will be a saving throw for each attack in the opening flurry of combat.
o The difficulty class of the saving throw is 10 + assassin level + intelligence modifier.
o The duration is 1 turn per assassin level.
* The damage continues to increase in epic levels at the rate of 1d6 for every 2 levels (i.e., 6d6 at level 11, 7d6 at level 13, and continuing up to 15d6 at level 29).
* As of patch 1.66, immunity to mind-affecting spells no longer makes a character immune to death attack paralysis.

Waaaait a second...
What was the rumors i've heard about Assassins death attack had been changed on amia, and you're now telling me it didnt?

Very_Svensk wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

For Death Attack to Paralyze:

Quote:

Notes

* Added in the expansion packs.
* Death attacks are made whenever an assassin would qualify for a sneak attack, regardless of the target's combat state. (If an assassin also has a sneak attack, the game only reports "death attack" to the player.) In particular, death attacks can be made with ranged weapons if within 30 feet of the target.
o All death attacks deal bonus damage, but not all death attacks trigger a paralysis save.
o The bonus damage stacks with that for sneak attacks, including the blackguard's sneak attack.
o As with sneak attacks, the bonus damage is not multiplied in the case of a critical hit.
* A death attack only triggers a paralysis save if the target is not engaged in combat, as per this feat's description.
o As all attacks in a flurry are effectively simultaneous, there will be a saving throw for each attack in the opening flurry of combat.
o The difficulty class of the saving throw is 10 + assassin level + intelligence modifier.
o The duration is 1 turn per assassin level.
* The damage continues to increase in epic levels at the rate of 1d6 for every 2 levels (i.e., 6d6 at level 11, 7d6 at level 13, and continuing up to 15d6 at level 29).
* As of patch 1.66, immunity to mind-affecting spells no longer makes a character immune to death attack paralysis.

Waaaait a second...
What was the rumors i've heard about Assassins death attack had been changed on amia, and you're now telling me it didnt?

It was being worked on/looked out.

Two Gripes I have over PvP.

1) If I kill you, I don't mind you immediately going and getting your Epic friend and smacking me even though I find it myself completely lame that after putting you down you somehow have miracoulous abilities to return to the field. If you do return and your epic friend kills me, I then expect you to RP out the entire aftermath not for your epic friend to RP with me whilst you toddle of to log in with another character or to go levelling etc.

2) In hostile RP if you Port out and your friends come through the portal, I take that as your entire group consenting to pvp (the metagame issues of Portal nabbing aside), giving you your out and then will hostile and attempt to PK everyone that steps out of that portal.

MoshingChris wrote:

2) In hostile RP if you Port out and your friends come through the portal, I take that as your entire group consenting to pvp (the metagame issues of Portal nabbing aside), giving you your out and then will hostile and attempt to PK everyone that steps out of that portal.

I'd say that's a hostile act and I think you'd be in your right to smack down every single last one of them myself, but that's just my opinion.

Yurell wrote:

I'd say that's a hostile act and I think you'd be in your right to smack down every single last one of them myself, but that's just my opinion.

Seconded.

MoshingChris wrote:

2) In hostile RP if you Port out and your friends come through the portal, I take that as your entire group consenting to pvp (the metagame issues of Portal nabbing aside), giving you your out and then will hostile and attempt to PK everyone that steps out of that portal.

I would report that to the DMs, as metagaming.

Well of course it is meta. The moment that anyone involved talks about it being PKing it's not IC any more. Hence the term /player/ killing.

Scimiter wrote:

Well of course it is meta. The moment that anyone involved talks about it being PKing it's not IC any more. Hence the term /player/ killing.

Its PKing because i as the player get the Kills recorded to my account and if it shows that i've had 20+ or more PK's in a couple of days without being involved in a factional war or rivalry then I as the player will recieve DM stick for it.

That Blue light is the biggest heap of metagame trash left on Amia and should be destroyed without thought.

PK has nothing to do with the kill being OOC.

It's just one player killing another players character. Hence, Player Kill.. PK.

It was earlier discussed about if you should attack people that cast spells to get away. I'd attack because when people have escaped from me, they've taken the advantage to buff then return to kill me.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Wed, Jul 13 2011, 0:27 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Wow, nice necro. (edit: That's not supposed to sound snarky, btw, I was just surprised lol)

If they are trying to escape after PvP starts, you can attack them until you loose track of them (if I am correct).
If they are trying to escape before PvP starts, I believe you cannot do that

I would suggest talking to a DM instead to clarify it.

Naivatkal wrote:

Wow, nice necro.

If they are trying to escape after PvP starts, you can attack them until you loose track of them (if I am correct).
If they are trying to escape before PvP starts, I believe you cannot do that

I would suggest talking to a DM instead to clarify it.

My rule of thumb is if im the one being threatened the second they cast any spell its on, any spell casting is an offensive act whether or not you have the SC ranks to identify. Might not be the right rule but its the one that makes the most sense.

Naivatkal wrote:

Wow, nice necro.

If they are trying to escape after PvP starts, you can attack them until you loose track of them (if I am correct).
If they are trying to escape before PvP starts, I believe you cannot do that

I would suggest talking to a DM instead to clarify it.

You have to provide an IC out.

This out is not necessarily running away. If your character tells another that an attack will ensue unless they kneel and offer their neck to your character and they try to run, your character can give chase. The IC out does not have to be something that the other character likes... it just has to be there.

Yup, that's what I meant by 'before PvP starts'. I wrote under the assumption all the rules were being followed XD

Although, in retrospect, Feo brought up a good point. Casting during a heated situation is considered a hostile action. So it might be good to toss them a tell saying they are running away. Of course, there's no rule stating that their chara has to stand there and watch, it's just to let them know. Since taking the time to emote running off might take too long and you get attacked in the meantime lol

Course, you can make it clear IC that you are running away, too

Arissa_Nightblade wrote:

krytellan wrote:

Why are so many afraid to get beaten up on a video game? Your ability to win in PvP hopefully doesn't dictate your value in the world.

People don't like to lose, plain and simple. But if everyone always won then it would never be fun. My preference for PVPing is PnP style with dice rolls and all that instead of straight out 'who has the more uber gear.' It makes it a bit more fair on both sides especially if you are a lowbie (because even lowbies have a chance of getting a lucky hit sometimes).

A lot of people get mad about being killed in pvp because they want an IC reason to have their character come back to life. Ie they want to be able to justify WHY they are seen alive later if absolutely nobody they know is anywhere around to find them and rez them. I have personally seen people scream metagaming cheat when someone else ignore there pvp death. I'm sure the loss of vol and xp sucks for people who are trying to level without power leveling/grinding all day and night. But seriously? Cry me a river? Xp and gold can be replaced. Not giving an ooc rez after pvp, now THAT is what ticks me off.

Let's not argue with people who posted over a year and a half ago and left the server over a year ago. It's an exercise in futility and will cause me to lock this thread.

Lol, my bad. I was reading this thread on my phone and didn't notice it had multiple pagesor WHEN they were posted. Sorry.

ainjyll wrote:

Let's not argue with people who posted over a year and a half ago and left the server over a year ago. It's an exercise in futility and will cause me to lock this thread.

Save the time.

The latest PvP rule update - READ THIS

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