AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Gauging interest: FORCED PERMA DEATH!!!!!!

Since I'm not allowed to make this suggestion in the death penalities thread, I'll make it here.

Why not simply include a mode in the PvP settings that forces Permadeath? So both parties have to turn it on to use it, otherwise no Permadeath. This way you get a method of forced permadeath on the server, but one that still gives people the choice of wither they truely do perma-die or not. This also stops people from up and deciding to themselves a few months later that they will just ignore the perma-death agreed RP they had with someone, and play their favourite character again.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Since I'm not allowed to make this suggestion in the death penalities thread, I'll make it here.

Why not simply include a mode in the PvP settings that forces Permadeath? So both parties have to turn it on to use it, otherwise no Permadeath. This way you get a method of forced permadeath on the server, but one that still gives people the choice of wither they truely do perma-die or not.

But if you're doing voluntary permadeath, what is the need of the settings? If you agree, it's obviously self-enforced anyway, so why have a mode?

You replied to quickly! xD

Because it removes the free will of deciding to turn around and ignore what was agreed upon. It mechanically forces people to stay dead and not allow them to simply be douchy about it.

TormakSaber wrote:

There is more to cordor than "poke giggle nonsense".

I will say only this; Cordor square is the only place I have ever heard the word "assclown" used in an IC context.

Yes, because the .01% cases of truly horrendous RP set the standard for the entire place, am I right?

I will say only this: Ew, cheesy Drow sacrifices.

Clearly the Drow RP is trashy BDSM wannabe crap.

:roll:

TormakSaber wrote:

Yes, because the .01% cases of truly horrendous RP set the standard for the entire place, am I right?

I will say only this: Ew, cheesy Drow sacrifices.

Clearly the Drow RP is trashy BDSM wannabe crap.

:roll:

The "good" RP generally happens in areas other than the square precisely because of all the *pokepokegiggle* type socializing/gossiping that goes on there, so new players are probably going to be exposed to the latter, and that will be their first impression of the server. It's not that it's terrible RP, just that it usually amounts to people standing around talking about what he/she said or did and isn't terribly inclusive.

I would disagree with that. I've had quite a few non-poke hug giggle RP's with people in the square. Quite a few good RP events also in the square that were very serious. But traditionally the city/town square is a place of meeting people, then going elsewhere, so yea other area's of Cordor may very well get the end RP, but the intial RP starts in the square most of the time.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I would disagree with that. I've had quite a few non-poke hug giggle RP's with people in the square. Quite a few good RP events also in the square that were very serious. But traditionally the city/town square is a place of meeting people, then going elsewhere, so yea other area's of Cordor may very well get the end RP, but the intial RP starts in the square most of the time.

It is the dominant kind of RP in that particular area, though. I've seen some great non-trivial RP in Cordor square, but not nearly as often as I see epics standing around socializing in their own insular little groups.

I would be very happy if Cordor has indeed changed, to not just serve as a social chat room for idle epics.

Socializing isn't inherently a bad thing. The adrenaline can't run 24/7.

I see nothing wrong with socialising. You can't be slaughtering monsters or plotting world domination every second of every day.

Socializing like high school girls does get annoying, though. When I watch a TV show, it's not to see the main characters chatting idly. Granted, they can do that and still catch my interest, but when it's just pure idle socialization... That's typically the stuff left off-screen due to sheer boringness in movies, books, and television.

Logicality wrote:

Socializing like high school girls does get annoying, though. When I watch a TV show, it's not to see the main characters chatting idly. Granted, they can do that and still catch my interest, but when it's just pure idle socialization... That's typically the stuff left off-screen due to sheer boringness in movies, books, and television.

When I'm in the city with my friends I spend the time socialising, and I do not do it for the entertainment of bystanders. The difference is, you probably do not find entertainment being separate from the social group and watching (your television examples) yet a member of the group is probably enjoying themselves.

I hear the bastards removed my pillar. I'll be avoiding Cordor from now on, I'm moving underground anyway.

Anyways... my 2 cents on permadeath.When you put in hundreds (sometimes even thousands) of hours into a character when you consider retiring a character the only thing that pops into your head is:

I want a death/retirement to remember.

Now... Amia's been around for 5 years now. There's still a considerable size of people who've been around for atleast 4-5 years who've had the time to become considerably attached to their characters. This was spurred on by the fact that there was no previous penalty for death. I would be pretty pissed off to have the blood and sweat of 1500 hours playing time (both in character development and earning the DCs to purchase the cool items they have) cut short by a surprise "accident."

IF perma-death was introduced 5 odd years ago, you probably wouldn't have this attachment to your characters. But for the sake of increased griefing and because I'm a selfish bastard, too little too late from my point of view.

Sorry.

i know I havnt been playing that much lately, but if I lost snot a char I have been playing for 2 years now I would most likely cry. I have put my heart and soul into this char writen books about him. I remember the events of his entire life and feel like he is a real living creature. If he died it would feel like a part of me died.

Deepest most meaningful roleplay I've ever had came on "no consent" permadeath servers. Characters are played in a completely different ...far more realistic and interesting way - it's truly a rare few who will play the "hero" right up to the end. Incidentally, some of the oldest/most powerful characters weren't combat builds at all - they were the spies and behind the scences manipulators.

One thing this server did very differently from most hardcore NWN servers - it didn't punish the PLAYER of the character on a death via putting them through weeks or months of grinding on the new character. Leveling to the point it mattered at all was very fast, the focus was on interactions between players and what they did in the world - starting a new character was about getting in fast on a new story not killing several hundred goblins. This approach also hugely reduced the amount of PVP resentment, since being killed wasn't forcing the dead player into a huge amount of level grinding.

The opportunity here I think is really huge. Existing hardcore NWN servers all seem to have the common flaw that they aren't really balanced for permadeath - aka making a new character involves a very large level grind or RP XP. Meaning most of them seem plagued with "campfire syndrome" - players sitting around afriad they will die or never engaging in conflict that goes beyond veiled political plots.

I myself can say I've lost a 2 year old rather powerful character to PVP very suddenly. The RP ended up been really intense and beyond that, the character left a legacy and the unexpected loss also had a big effect on the political/social fabric of the world. There's nothing like hearing about that PC or maybe a dead ally on another character...having actual legends evolve....or being the last PC carrying a deadly secret.

Let's scrap the idea of permadeath and make it so that when people die and return, they are so muddled by the transition from unliving to living that the world is drained of sound. There is no music to life. The words people say mean nothing, having seen the grander scheme of things. Bard songs suddenly fail to inspire people, providing no bonuses. The listen skill is at a permanent -20.

We can call it...

...the permadeaf system.

I suppose you could have a temporary sickness after being revived, IE you are level drained to 1 and slowly gain levels back over the cause of the next few minutes. You could make it say 1 level/minute or something.

The only issue with this is that it makes resurrection kind of pointless, because it's supposed to immediately revive someone so they can carry on fighting, unless you make the spell avoid these penalties entirely.

*Waves a little green flag to the perma-death idea.*

Albeit there will be a large number of people having grown too attached to their character(s), try to keep in mind that from what I've seen, perma-death is really used as a "This person's died over and over against the same people time and time again and keeps getting revived somehow, this will end that." sort of thing, or perhaps "This person's attempted to commit genocide on the island and we must be sure they can't be raised." type deal aswell.

Generally only to be an extreme warning to say "You're not immortal, test your luck too much and you might just die.".

Some players here may have experienced perma-death on previous servers and would know that it forces people to play their characters with a little more caution and a little less godlike, it does cause "better" RP to flourish in my opinion.

Anyhow, it's early, my only argument -against- perma-death is don't allow it as some switch for the PvP mode widget or anything like that.. Were it to happen over PvP (eg. A duel to the death) then I'd much rather a DM's presence were to be requested.

I most say... im really against the perm death thing... it should be the persons own choice but i will also point out some diffrent things and my reasons for this opinion...

1) I'm really... i mean really attached to my character, when i play him he gives the type of life i wished i could have... I don't mean the social status at all, just his personally... Cause that personally just don't work here and i don't feel any troubles by telling what's Amia and whats life...

2) Amia has both made me angry, sad, happy, i could go on with the emotions. Things like my char's wedding really made me happy. I felt a joy i wouldn't experince my self before some time. Then yes now when i can get happy i can also get sad... Sometimes it do affect me in my life...

But here the past year i didn't have ANY possibility to play on Amia, and it was actually here i was saddest. The idea of not being able to play with some great online friends i socialise good with, while playing/making some great rp, kinda irritated me sometimes.

3) because perhaps 25 - 50% of the Amia population would leave if their beloved character suddenly gets perm killed.

4) About pvp, as someone allready has stated you could make a system that agreed on it... if it really was a fight between lets say... Darthion and his worst enemy... that perm death could be interesting but as Mr. Mago allready states then the reward could also be bigger... then its a self chosen risk.

5) The idea of perm killing at DM events is good... i have often seen really dumb shitted persons (no names) doing events INCLUDING my self... But i kinda learned from it, and it made me better rp'er and i started acting more adult at the events... (which leads to that people could get 1 - 2 warnings)

If you just make one silly mistake and dies at theevent (fx my favourite the Nesek war) because mistakes can happen... The you wouldn't see the fantastic rp we had when, we went underground or went 6 men out into the sand in a diplomatic mission to do what ever we did... Cause people will be afraid to loose their character..

6) I have played my character for quite a while, and i know there is alot who's character is older and alot more powerfull... But that's not the point, if there wasn't old characters like Sharina from the EO where would all that kind of rp go? Who should play the Old experinced, and who should play the new inexperinced... that will destroy alot of rp.

7) And to spooks... usually i rp sometimes in Cordor square because it's the easiest place to find rp... Usually i just ignore the characters who do silly things execpt if their talking to me (i wouldn't block any rp totally...) but i have seen ALOT of great rp'ers there and i kinda enjoy it, cause it's also and oppturnity for your character and your self to meet and experince other people...

That's my comment on this... like it or not

I don't know, I thought Amia had its own little genre of RP. Not the silly pokegiggle Cordor RP but.. It's kind of hard to explain. Like others have said, if you ignore most of the dull Cordor chatter there is plenty of great roleplay to be had. If permadeath were to be introduced however, there should be some limits on it so as not to discourage newer members - I wouldn't appreciate building up an entire character's backstory in my mind and having a really strong mental image of him only to have him killed while exploring (though this isn't very likely to happen to me, but new bloods might wander into an area of much higher level by accident and then that's the end of their time, and though they might just think 'oh well, better learn fast' it might also discourage many others from trying again) or even just being hit by an unlucky crit or (and this always gets on my nerves if I see it happen) some epic calls your mother a dirty pig and due to whatever character you're playing you basically must fight back and then die forever just because (s)he knows they can't be beaten by some level 2 newb.

Permadeath imho is great... Lets get the pvp balanced out better then talk about it however. Permadeath during PvM not so great... But in PvP its essential...

Im tired of seeing someone who jsut died up and running about like nothing happeneed... They are back in Cordor before your character can walk that far... And you had then decapitated, cut in 4 pieces, burn and placed in mirror lined box far from water etc etc.

Implementing Perma-death will just make more people come along with megapowerbuilds and make us priests of our god get owned, due to our amazing RP builds of unoverpoweredness.

I am dead against perma death

I am unsure what it will actually add, that will actually benefit Amia, I actually think it will take from the already declining population. Last night I saw all up on both servers 17 people, that is what I feel we should be more concerned about than adding radical rule changes, it is the dimishing population.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Permadeath imho is great... Lets get the pvp balanced out better then talk about it however. Permadeath during PvM not so great... But in PvP its essential...

Im tired of seeing someone who jsut died up and running about like nothing happeneed... They are back in Cordor before your character can walk that far... And you had then decapitated, cut in 4 pieces, burn and placed in mirror lined box far from water etc etc.

Hell no. I thought if there was one thing established in this thread it was that there will NOT be permadeath in PvP.

I really love the idea of a forced permadeath system, or at the very least -heavily- increased death penalties. I can see the argument that people can make for being heavily attached to characters and whatnot but, let's be honest here, I've played Kamin for a good 4 or 5 years and I'm immensely attached to him. I would hate losing him, it would really suck and, sadly enough (if you want to look at it that way) it'd probably be rather depressing to know that he's gone, but if anything came along that really should reasonably just mean he's not around, that's part of the RP and part of the character. Every story needs an ending, and that's all RPing really is, is interactive storytelling.
I also love the idea because of how it could legitimize many characters' behaviors on the server. As it operates now, nobody has any real fear of death or permanent harm, because if you die, hey, you'll be back and fine in an hour, so don't worry about it, right? If we have some kind of permadeath/harsh death penalty system, I think we'll see a lot less of the needless conflict (wow, it feels weird to say that) and fighting and killing and whatnot that goes on, and people will be more reluctant to place everything on a good die roll. In the end, I can see this having a few drawbacks, but the benefits to me far outweigh the cost. I have been personally hoping for something like this to come along for a few years now, so I can't wait to see what could come of it!

The idea of permanent death is good. But it flies in the face of the lore. You can never have a truly permanent character death until all the gods have been cast down and there is therefore nobody to grant divine magic.

On the other hand, you could make the returning to life part progressively more difficult for those doing the raising. Part of the time (but not a huge part of the time) you spend on Amia would be spent in search of the the components which the lore says you need to bring someone back. Perhaps you look for them directly, or perhaps you have to do a favour for some NPC who has them. Then you have a greater appreciation for the gravity of character death.

It would also mean that you would never see a faction recklessly endangering their own lives, otherwise it would be on any surviving faction members or their allies to find a cleric and the components.

But I already know that the answer to that will be a big fat no, so I won't bother elaborating any further.

stealing an idea from another server which I used to love as a death penetity was being forced to walk at the rate of being encumbered back to your body. unless there wasa raise involved which would teleport you, just throwing up harsher idea's that one doesn't actually take anything..but god damn was it annoying to walk across the server.. specially would be in amia.. if you could take no carts..

Selmak wrote:

The idea of permanent death is good. But it flies in the face of the lore. You can never have a truly permanent character death until all the gods have been cast down and there is therefore nobody to grant divine magic.

You can come reasonably close, though, with spells such as Imprisonment and Trap the Soul ... those sorts of things would be interesting to see. "You died too may times and can't come back to life now" sounds so boring to me, and it does go against lore.

Chalk me up under hell no. Get ready for a hundred and fifty times more OOC drama than you see now if we go with permadeath.

And believe me when I say it (and it may sound ironic coming from me), if there's ONE thing that drives people off the game it's OOC drama.

Level drain for PvP seems reasonable at first blush, but it too would add to drama. I'd be in support of that if someone got killed raiding a faction area or something, not if they got ganked by some idiot out in the woods.

I also don't get the association with Hardcore RP and permadeath. I've done the former and it never involved the latter.

Humorless sods.

First you don't laugh at my joke, then you keep talking like we're dead set on having forced permadeath when we pretty much ruled that out eight pages ago! :evil:

Yossarin wrote:

Humorless sods.

First you don't laugh at my joke, then you keep talking like we're dead set on having forced permadeath when we pretty much ruled that out eight pages ago! :evil:

Actually Yossarin, I found your joke funny.

.. Though in thinking of it i have to agree .. this topic has probably extended well beyond it's best before date.

Yossarin wrote:

Humorless sods.

First you don't laugh at my joke, then you keep talking like we're dead set on having forced permadeath when we pretty much ruled that out eight pages ago! :evil:

That was a joke? Damn, I was going to support it.

And I thought we only ruled out permadeath in everything but DM events, where the DMs would give a warning prior that there is a risk of permadeath.

762 wrote:

I also don't get the association with Hardcore RP and permadeath. I've done the former and it never involved the latter.

People don't take death seriously when there's no consequence for it.

A bonus of perma-death is it makes people play their character with a slightly less confrontational attitude towards others unless they're capable of backing it up. ie. It should cut down on -some- of the random PvP issues, but then again what with the whole dying permanently.. I'm sure that other issues will arise in their place.

I get all that. It's not worth it by a longshot.

.... aaaaanyway. Nobody is going to read all of this before posting another comment, the topic itself is rather obsolete, and ... umm [fill in your own excuse here].

Locked.

Gauging interest: FORCED PERMA DEATH!!!!!!

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