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Bard 12 / Fighter 4 / BG 4 gives you 11 feats pre-epic.

Bard 8 / Fighter 2 is 5 epic feats.

Pre-epic: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Divine Shield, Imp Crit, Curse Song, Weap Focus, Exotic Weap, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell + Weap Spec / KD / Blind Fight.

Epic: Overwhelming, Lasting Inspiration, EWF, Dev Crit, Armor Skin

If you want Epic Listen, you'd have to go Bard 14 / Fighter 2 / BG 4 pre-epic.

Which means you'd be trading Weap Spec / KD / Blind Fight for Epic Listen.

Isn't Divine Shield being nerfed too?

Probably.

Which means you're looking at +4 AC from the shield.

But then again... +5 dodge (boots), +1 dodge (mage armor), +4 dodge (haste), +5 dodge (bard song), +4 dodge (divine shield).

+19 dodge.

You're pretty much maxing out dodge AC anyway.

Well, yeah. I dont know if the duration will be nerfed as well though? I wouldnt take it if it only lasted 4 rounds. That would annoy the hell out of me. :lol:

A 4 round duration probably wouldn't be worth it, no.

Mr Mago wrote:

Bard 12 / Fighter 4 / BG 4 gives you 11 feats pre-epic.

Bard 8 / Fighter 2 is 5 epic feats.

Pre-epic: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Divine Shield, Imp Crit, Curse Song, Weap Focus, Exotic Weap, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell + Weap Spec / KD / Blind Fight.

Epic: Overwhelming, Lasting Inspiration, EWF, Dev Crit, Armor Skin

If you want Epic Listen, you'd have to go Bard 14 / Fighter 2 / BG 4 pre-epic.

Which means you'd be trading Weap Spec / KD / Blind Fight for Epic Listen.

Got starting starts for me?

Think I can go without epic listen, just looking to detect those pesky dev sd's.

Effective ab should be 51? on amia I think, why wep spec? damage should be high enough on a bard. I can understand Blind fight though.

Don't ever count effective AB. Or effective AC for that matter. Or effective Dev Crit DC.

Self-buffed log AB is 52.

What's your race?

Human, Are you taking into account curse song for that ab?

Mr Mago wrote:

Don't ever count effective AB. Or effective AC for that matter. Or effective Dev Crit DC.

Plain human? No subrace?

Just Plain human,

Hmm.

Bard 14 / Fighter 2 / BG 4 pre-epic then.

Str - 18
Dex - 8
Con - 12
Wis - 8
Int - 10
Cha - 15

Pre-epic: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Divine Shield, Imp Crit, Curse Song, Weap Focus, Exotic Weap, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell

Epic: Overwhelming, Lasting Inspiration, EWF, Dev Crit, Armor Skin, Great Str I

I've seen and heard it several times now, and I have to ask. Why Maximize Spell on a Bard? What is it that's worth it? Ability buffs?

Is it really worth it, though? Compared to something like Blind Fight, maybe KD or in builds with Fighter in it, WS?

Invisibility Purge, KD rings... and +2 damage.

Compared to +3 Str, +3 Dex, +3 Cha.

Yeah. It's worth it.

Good point, true. I was more thinking if the loss of Dirge, for example, is a good trade? I might be putting more to Dirge than it's worth, though. <.<

You don't have to give up Dirge. The max'ed spells go into the level 5 spellslots.

O'rly? Beautiful, I'll keep that in mind, then. Thanks!

And there is really not much in level 5 slots that are all that spiffy to use anyways.

Extended War Cry. But that's it.

Yeppers. Bards are just the party buff happy wagon, With a good bard in the party and even say 1 or 2 meleers. You never even have to lift a finger, only have to hope to stay caught up.

Still dont know what to do with my bard, I guess I will keep the rp up and see where the paths lead him.

Pure level 30 Rog build... go! Assuming that it being dex based will be easiest, now is it possible to get Epic Dodge without taking SD?

Edit: On second thought, 4 bg or 4 fighter preepic will be worth it for the extra attack per turn.

You mean 23 rogue/6 fighter/1 barbarian. Fastest cornersneak in the west.

TormakSaber wrote:

You mean 23 rogue/6 fighter/1 barbarian. Fastest cornersneak in the west.

6 Fighter? I was going to repost and say I was going to steal Va's build... but I thought his was only 4 f?

Nopes, he was 23/6, 4 pre epic for the fort and attack, 5-6 in epic for the feats.

Barb in epic as well?

Oh, you know, I bet he went 3 fighter/1 barb pre epic for another +2 fort. It's +1 fort over going 4 fighter pre epic, and gave him another feat in epic.

That is what I was thinking, not about the +2 fort but the extra epic feat. Hmm. Now I just need to find a list of prereq for epic dodge.

Last edited by Yannickbl on Thu, Jan 07 2010, 16:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Nwn wiki wrote:

Prerequisite: 21st level, dexterity 25+, tumble 30 ranks, improved evasion, defensive roll

Nwn wiki wrote:

Prerequisite: 21st level, dexterity 25+, dodge, tumble 30 ranks, improved evasion, defensive roll

You don't need dodge, from what I hear. Take great fort instead, if you don't have it.

GreatPigeon wrote:

maglorine wrote:

Concept: Air Genasi with Improved Whirlwind Attack to represent a cyclone of damage effect.

How about 10 sd ( 4 levles taken in preepic (will drop ab by 1 i think)
12 fighter 7wm

You will be catchign everythign flatfooted though so the ab drop shouldnt hurt to terribly bad...

Maybe hard.... just cheked on sd... its an expensive ass class to ge the skill points for withotu some rogue.

That's what I came up with too. You burn 27 skill points to go crossclassed for hide/move/tumble/intimidate to get all the reqs for WM and SD. I was thinking if I started with 16 INT (easily doable on an air genasi), I could manage 200 skillpoints total, which leaves enough for 30hide, 30move, 30 tumble, 32 discipline, and about 50 leftover for other things, one maxed and the other at 20ish.......

jafman30 wrote:

Nwn wiki wrote:

Prerequisite: 21st level, dexterity 25+, dodge, tumble 30 ranks, improved evasion, defensive roll

You don't need dodge, from what I hear. Take great fort instead, if you don't have it.

You don't indeed, it's striked in the wiki, I forgot when I copied

Two questions. Does Divine might/shield work while shifted? And has the "No monk ac while shifted" change been implemented yet? The monk ac is 'cause I thought it was already done. >.>

I want to make a 5druid/6cleric(With divine might and shield)/19shifter with as many forms as possible. Feat ideas and skills? He will be evil, following Cyric. Maybe BG instead of cleric?

It will work while shifted. he monk AC nerfs go in when the rest of the shifter changes do.

Why not BG rather than Cleric? Looking for some level of clerical RP, or something else?

Actually, I just hadn't considered BG 'till I was typing. So, with the changes to Divine shield/might coming, with 6 BG/Cleric I should get +6 ac and +6 damage. Which means it is better than getting a tumble/UMD dump and I actually have RP reasoning to back up taking it. Basically, I just need 10 skill points to put into hide (Not a class skill for druid or shifter) and I can get BG. Cleave won't be difficult either.

Anyone mind giving me a list of feats to take at what level, so on and so forth? I basically want as many forms as possible, including undead shape.

EDIT:: Right, well I forgot that Divine might/shield works based on Cha mod.. I don't think I have room for that. So, I might as well take fighter or something? Or keep BG for it's obvious bonuses?

Taking the 6 cleric will be a lot better in the long run

You wil get the div power on all the forms which if they have 3 attacks equates to 1 more attack, and you get full bab progression... so at level 30 you get 25ab + everything else.

Except you can't cast when polymorphed.

This I did not know!

Hrm.. So Demon Flesh, Aura of Despair, Veil of Shadow, Divine Might, and Divine Shield are the only things that will help me? The rest of the BG abilities I will get are focused on weapons. Divine Might and Shield can be activated while shifted, I'm assuming, so I need to invest some Charisma points. I'm going to take a look at the Human subraces and see if any would work. Yes, I intend to RP my race if I choose one. ;P

I think you may need level 30 if you intend to nab all the forms?

Just take a tumble dump class instead (that also has UMD).

I was really hoping I could have some sort of Divine class to show his true devotion to Cyric.. I could go without Divine Shield/Might. The question is, is the minor abilities and AB of BG worth it compared to a tumble/UMD dump?
20% concealment, +2 natural AC, -2 saves to enemies, 1d6 sneak attack damage, charisma mod to saves, a quick cast of bull's strength, and +2 ab (I think.).

-Or-

+6 Dodge AC and the ability to use almost all items on Amia. I suppose items on Amia could get me the Blackguard's equivalent, but getting all of these free's up items slots. If you think it'd be better to get Tumble/UMD, I will.

From a power perspective (which this thread is based on), take the UMD/tumble dump class (much as I hate skill dumping).

However...an idea im coming round to more and more is to build characters how you want them to be, not just what is mechanically the most powerful. If you want BG go for it. Its less powerful but if it fits how you want RP, do it.

Quote:

However...an idea im coming round to more and more is to build characters how you want them to be, not just what is mechanically the most powerful

What? On Amia? Madness :lol:

Er continue...

Mr T

I should hope that's the point of this topic: how to build interesting, fun and PC-appropriate builds and make the most of it. All the cool kids first learn how to powerbuild, and then learn how to build like cool kids.

I'll take the BG for funzors. I tested it, I got everything but Dragonshape, which I could get if I tried, I take a Great Wisdom as my last feat and end with 30 Wis. :lol:

I'm assuming that's as close as you can get to getting all forms? I nabbed all others.

Now all I need is to find what all feats I should take pre-epic. Epic too, I want all shapes other than Dragonshape..

If you start as a human subrace that gets +1 wisdom perhaps? Erm instead of BG if you want to be 'holier then though' does CoT work?

Getting every shape except dragon is pretty easy. Dragon is what breaks the bank.

Well, CoT is only for any non-evil chars. Being a Cyricist and all means I am evil. It would be great class, if not for the restrictions.

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