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GreatPigeon wrote:

Talk about Paladins/CoT/PDK 19/6/5 Would that the be best mix? Plan would be to possibly make and roleplay as like a Helmite or one of the militant good guys. Make the guy roleplay towards being a leader or troop trainer, the drill sargeant if you will. Not having to worry about being the badass of the church.

The 19-20 paladin difference is 1 fort save and 1 cast of a 4th level spell. the extra CoT makes up for the save, but unsure if you need all the extra 4th level spells. Not played a pally much. Plan would be to be Human, Aasimar maybe by dropping 1 level of something or other.

Envision I have is not of the solo knight, I am badass, here me run off and be awesome. I would like see it as a battle lord or what I kind of envsion Knight Templar to be like?

4th level Paladin spells....There is basically only one. Holy Sword. Which is awesome, but short lasting. 38 Rounds a day, or 60 rounds 3 times a day, vs +1 Fort? I know what I'd choose. Thats before we get to the (Considering you get extra feats from CoT) possibility of taking Extend Spell and using that 4th level slot on Extended Prayer, your 3rd level slots on Extended Aura of Glory, and your 2nd level slots on Extended Divine Favour.... :idea:

So. IMO. Extend Spell + More Paladin Spellslots. Saves schmaves. You'll have a bajillion Fort anyway.

PS. I hope you do make a Helmite! Ive never seen one in the temple in Howness there. I want a neighbour.

Quote:

4th level Paladin spells....There is basically only one. Holy Sword.

Uhhh...

Freedom. Death Ward. Extended Prayer.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

4th level Paladin spells....There is basically only one. Holy Sword.

Uhhh...

Freedom. Death Ward. Extended Prayer.

I recomended the last one, yes. The other ones, given theres only a few slots? Theres only one Id memorise. There are no potions or items that give the same effect as Holy Sword.

They also don't last as long and get dispelled, hehe.

Uh... freedom - dispell - paraylze dead,
deathward effects- dispelled -oh no... instadeath....

Yeah.....

But even if you cast them yourself, you're still likely to be dispelled if you're so heavily multiclassed...?

At 20 levels a little bit harder, 25 is immunity to everything but mords I beleive... the difference is the potions and items levels are casted at like level 6 at best?

When I say items, I mean Belt of Agility. You cant dispel that. Although idk if you would consider wearing one. Dont know if youre going CHA based, STR based, DEX based...

Anyways. This is a bit pedantic. Day to day, monster hunting, I do think youll mostly be using Holy Sword and maybe potions depending on where youre headed. But Paladins arent sorcerors, you can have all these spells and can cast what you want when you want.

TormakSaber wrote:

"Hang on let me buff. Then I'm a golden god": Cleric 25/Fighter 4/Monk 1. The monk is admittedly for skilldumps and tumble and "kosher UMD". Sub for rogue or bard or something if you want. High bard works for this as well. Clerics can go Zen Archery too.

The Zen archery part... Umm... Best to use Crossbow, or Bow? Since you're going fighter anyway, you can use a bow. And bow's get Rapid attack, no?

Does Divine Might add up with Ranged attacks?

About the paladin build - IF you are CHA Based, i suggest taking the Craft Wand feat.

Then you dont have to worry about the Fourth spellslot, because you can make Holy Avenger Wands and stuff...It's kinda cool to engage a boss when 5 Partymembers have Holy Avenger buffed on their blades.

Gives a new meaning to "Divine intervention"

Edit: Imo, 10Cot,20Paladin is a Frigging badass class. You pump CHA for your life and take Greater Smite 1-2-3-4-5.

20Paladin 'Pre epic', then 10Cot Epic levels, So you get 5 Extra Feats + the 4 Feats you would ordinary get.

Would you by any chance have 25CHA once you get to 20 you can have Greater Smite 8-9 and do a 'Can-of-Whoop-ass" Damage 3x /day

Last edited by Mr Mago on Thu, Dec 24 2009, 13:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.

EDIT: Trying to use a laptop with a touchpad nets you two posts in a row.

GreatPigeon wrote:

At 20 levels a little bit harder, 25 is immunity to everything but mords I beleive... the difference is the potions and items levels are casted at like level 6 at best?

27 is immune to Greater Dispell + Mord Scrolls.

Potions, scrolls, items and wands don't work like that.

They use your caster level (if you've casted buffs on yourself), and if you haven't, they use your Character Level.

Yup. You read it right.

You can forget about trying to dispell a potion/scroll buffing Fighter/WM/ Rogue, unless you're a mording sorc/wiz with more than 20 CL.

Both Death Ward and Freedom is worth having.

Holy Sword is alright to use mostly due to the extra damage, after Bioware thankfully fixed the insanely overpowered dispell.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Just saying it shouldnt have a 62ab and be on par with WM.

62AB is nonsense. A druid magic buffed bear has 50AB.

Dont beleive the character sheets

Khan. Boar from a level 25 ranger, After becoming ferocious has a top AB of 55 ( I beleive)

My Boar topped out at 61AB on a near pure Ranger (28/1/1) that was ferocious, prayered, bard buffed, aid, bless. So yeah your nonsense is your lack of taking into account all possible buffs.

SO yeah Pidge = correct.

Dramatic = Wrong.

I was indeed talking about druid buffs only.
But if you happen to conveniently have bards and clerics in tow with you, whoopee :lol:

Druid Buffed only is 55AB on the Bear.

30 Druid = 20 BAB + 18 str modifier + 12 AB + 5 Enhancement

You know. Awaken, Aura of Vitality and Maxed Bulls. . .

Whoopee for the double fail.

Falling Spider wrote:

A cleric would work, I guess. I'm mostly looking for a sniper, more or less. As much hurt via crossbow as possible, in as short a time as possible.

A CHA-WIS based Ranger, something like Ranger25/Rogue1/BG or Paladin 4. Can't really fail, but melee would still work better.

The advantage of the Cha based ranger, paired with bg/paladin is pretty nice though. The higher saves and the guaranteed damage. My super duper strength cannon ranger has tons of damage, but its not that sexy divine damage, so certain bosses and such with the massive DR just shrug me off... The divine shield and divine might would be great for pvp, or oh shit situations. Though in the long run, the all day long damage on a ranger is definitley nice.

Str-based Earth Genasi ranger.

I wonder if I should go for EWS or not? Rogue for Tumble, I suppose.

27/2 Ranger/Rogue or 23/4/2 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue?

Sword'n'board, dual-wield or two-hander, if it's a steady damage output I want?

Both.... just get them spiffy gloves. Wear plate and a big boy shield then switch to your dual wielding.

IronAngel wrote:

Str-based Earth Genasi ranger.

I wonder if I should go for EWS or not? Rogue for Tumble, I suppose.

27/2 Ranger/Rogue or 23/4/2 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue?

Sword'n'board, dual-wield or two-hander, if it's a steady damage output I want?

I'd go 25 ranger/5 HS, actually. You can take Bane of Enemies, and get 2 more favored enemies. You also can use HS for tumbledumping. Weaponry is your choice, but if you're making him str-based, you'll want a shield most likely. If you want him as a damage dealer, go 2 hander or dual wield. You'd lose out on UMD with this though.

Earth Genasi have LA +1.

From my experience, I would choose more Ranger Levels (And therefore more Favoured Enemies) ahead of EWS. Youll hardly be short on damage with Bane. Could do 100 damage with piddly little dagger no probs while dex based, STR based youll do all sorts.

26Ranger/2Rogue....Maybe 1 Druid for +2 AB Nature Sense? :idea:

1. What's better for a melee bard to have?
Toughness and Artist or Expertise and Improved Expertise?

2. Will Spot 96(94 if I don't get Artist feat at lvl 1) do me any good against stealth users around here?

All 4 of those, IMHO are pretty much unneeded on a bard.

Toughness and artist and yes it'll be fine.

Waht other feats will you have... an extra 30 hp is like 1 hit in epic areas... So its not gonna do ya to much good? Artist is pretty dandy though I guess (had to look it up).

30 HP makes quite a difference in PvP.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Waht other feats will you have... an extra 30 hp is like 1 hit in epic areas... So its not gonna do ya to much good? Artist is pretty dandy though I guess (had to look it up).

Here are the pre-epic feats I intend to take(11 feats available with a human 16 bard/4 fighter):

Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Extra music, Lingering Song, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Skill focus: Spot, Knock-down.

And I forgot to ask it in my previous post. What would be better, a slashing damage type weapon or a piercing one?

Dump Lingering Song, take Max Spell.

Yes, lingering song is nice until you get lasting inspriation, then its jsut a sheer waste.

No lingering song the, but maximised spell? With 16 base charisma and 28 if I bother enough to get +12 gear I won't be doing all that much spell casting.

And as for attribute buffs, wouldn't empowered spells do more good? As it adds up to 7 stat points.

If I recall... maximized is 5... but its guaranteed 5.... thats better in the long run then a gamble at 7?

GreatPigeon wrote:

If I recall... maximized is 5... but its guaranteed 5.... thats better in the long run then a gamble at 7?

That's a good point actually. And with 25 bard levels total, attribute boosts will stay on for a long while. I think I'll grab Maximise Spell then. Thanks.

Yeah, deffinately Maximise for a Bard over Empower. And a Slashing weapon is better, since you can Keen/GMW yourself so that means you can add more stuff to your Sword with Mythals. (Was said somewhere earlier in the thread, too. Credit goes to them for saying it.)

Get 18 Charisma. More Mass Haste!

So, dashing elf thief time:

I want an elven rogue with lots of rogue levels, able to disable any trap and pick any lock, and if possible, sneak past anything that guards said locks. So, my first thought is ofcourse Rogue 25/fighter5 for some extra BAB, feats and damage when he absolutely has to fight.

What I am stuck on is what weapon to use, and wether to dual wield or not. As I see it, I have three options: Go rapier with shield for extra AC and feat saving, go rapier and shield, and also invest in bow feats for ranged giggle, and thirdly, go dual wield with daggers or shortswords.

So, what would be worth it? I'd favour the rapier + bow route, unless dualwielding is supreme to that, so I can spend feats on more survivability instead, as in saves.

23 rogue, 6 fighter, 1 ranger. Free dual wield feat.... the 7th level of fighter would not give you an epic feat... but 1 level of ranger will... take 4 fighter pre-epic, grab ws and ews (in epic). Taht level level of ranger gives you epic weapon prof, (gets u readty for ews). And gives some nice skill points.. Depending how late you want to take it you can even max the hell out of AE.... Go dex base, can use a shield if you need to, wear that sexy light armor, You will have the extra damage from the ews and such... And tons of skill points.

neh, Ranger will not fit into that character. He is urban straight through, no conection with animals. And if he is going to dualwield, he just asmight go all the way and take imp twf too

You could do The Va. 23 rogue6 fighter/1 barbarian. But va was also crazy insane so the speed and barb rage made perfect sense for the vicious little ankle biter.

he is more of a witty roguish type. No charisme dumping here. No suggestion on dual wield vs sword'nboard + bow?

QPR wrote:

neh, Ranger will not fit into that character. He is urban straight through, no conection with animals. And if he is going to dualwield, he just asmight go all the way and take imp twf too

You can have an Urban Ranger, a sort of bounty hunter or law enforcer, hunting criminals. Easily represented by the Ranger class as it stands, taking some sort of domesticated animal, such as a dog (rename the wolf something like 'Bloodhound') and an appropriate favoured enemy, such as humans.

If only level dipping, it can still fit an urban hunter quite well.

Yups, rangers don't specifically need to be treehugging nature lovers. the class would have been so much better as "hunter".

That I know, but it just doesent fits, as he is thieving bastard himself..

Tacka wrote:

Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Extra music, Lingering Song, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Skill focus: Spot, Knock-down.

If you have 25 bard levels, you won't need extra music. I'm not sure what your epic level feats are, but I'd get Blindfight instead.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Tacka wrote:

Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Extra music, Lingering Song, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Skill focus: Spot, Knock-down.

If you have 25 bard levels, you won't need extra music. I'm not sure what your epic level feats are, but I'd get Blindfight instead.

I would get these while epic (5 feats total):

Lasting inspiration, Epic weapon focus, Epic weapon specialization(1 CoT level), Epic skill focus: Spot, Armour skin.

Oh yes. Then definitely consider flipping out Extra Music for Blindfight. With my Bard 21, I have plenty of uses of song without it.

I guess it depends on the flavor you're going for. I'd do this:

Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Blindfight, Artist (if you want), Toughness.

Is this the correct number of feats? Don't take Skill Focus: Spot, that doesn't pay IMO. I'd rather have the ability to KD big stuff, like giants. Somewhat limited in use, though.

Epic feats are good.

Tacka wrote:

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Tacka wrote:

Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Extra music, Lingering Song, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Skill focus: Spot, Knock-down.

If you have 25 bard levels, you won't need extra music. I'm not sure what your epic level feats are, but I'd get Blindfight instead.

I would get these while epic (5 feats total):

Lasting inspiration, Epic weapon focus, Epic weapon specialization(1 CoT level), Epic skill focus: Spot, Armour skin.

You know you dont get Bonus Feat for 1 CoT level? Its not like Fighter. Its just 2,4,6...

Yes, but he needs the CoT on a normal epic feat level so that he can take EWS; can only do that on Fighter or CoT.

Now, there's no real reason to take CoT over Fighter: the only thing you gain is a weak Lay on Hands. You won't get a multiclass penalty though, so I guess it's slightly worth it. A matter of taste and RP.

I'm thinking of making some sort of Cleric or Sorcerer build that can also fight. I was thinking first of a Monk/Cleric, but now I'm thinking of making her a Sor/Paladin (Charisma instead of Wisdom). Monks are really only good as streight monks imo, and having a Cleric/Monk would eliminate the decent spells like Flame weapon and GMW.

I really want her to have an epic Summon, but I don't care for dragons because of their size. I want her to be LG, so does that mean I can't summon a mummy? I don't think Evil is a requirement for Mummy Dust, and I was thinking of getting a skin change if I were able to do that.

I also thought I read that you needed an attribute score of 20 to get an epic spell too. I don't remember where I read that, so I could be mistaken.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Tacka wrote:

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Tacka wrote:

Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Extra music, Lingering Song, Curse Song, Imp. Critical, Extend Spell, Skill focus: Spot, Knock-down.

If you have 25 bard levels, you won't need extra music. I'm not sure what your epic level feats are, but I'd get Blindfight instead.

I would get these while epic (5 feats total):

Lasting inspiration, Epic weapon focus, Epic weapon specialization(1 CoT level), Epic skill focus: Spot, Armour skin.

You know you dont get Bonus Feat for 1 CoT level? Its not like Fighter. Its just 2,4,6...

Yup, 4 feats as per standard and 1 feat from Epic Bard. I take CoT at 24 to get Epic weapon specialization.

As for pre-epic, I would still like to trade Artist for Expertise. So it could boost my AC to somewhat mid 60s in epic. More tanking potential while hunting in areas with mobs who dish out high DPS.

Also, is it worth to invest points into Taunt? Having more then enough skill points, I figure this build could use some potential vs. high AC tanks and hard to hit bosses. With Bard-song I'd get it as high as 50.

Murex wrote:

I'm thinking of making some sort of Cleric or Sorcerer build that can also fight. I was thinking first of a Monk/Cleric, but now I'm thinking of making her a Sor/Paladin (Charisma instead of Wisdom). Monks are really only good as streight monks imo, and having a Cleric/Monk would eliminate the decent spells like Flame weapon and GMW.

I really want her to have an epic Summon, but I don't care for dragons because of their size. I want her to be LG, so does that mean I can't summon a mummy? I don't think Evil is a requirement for Mummy Dust, and I was thinking of getting a skin change if I were able to do that.

I also thought I read that you needed an attribute score of 20 to get an epic spell too. I don't remember where I read that, so I could be mistaken.

Paladin/Sorc is a filthy, filthy, filthy combo that will earn you the contempt of.. well, allmost everyone. Besides the save bonus from charisma will soon be capped at 1 every paladin/blackguard level. Divine mighta nd shield might go that way too, as will monk AC bonus from wisdom.

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