AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - ... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

I r managed to find a tall phenotype hak now

Mr Mago wrote:

I r managed to find a tall phenotype hak now

That one still has to go in! It does!

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=5341

It's totally awesome, but it's quite big.

<EDIT: *snip* Pheary boy posted the link before me>

I also found an existing HAK for HiPS.

I dunno if that's something the DM team/Disco would like to see implemented. But HiPS through the course of HiPS-spamming is a broken feat.

This HAK basically adds a cooldown timer which can be set by a server variable (aka, you can adjust it to your preferences). The HAK also includes HiPS for rangers + assassins. Dunno if that's desireable, and could potentially be altered as well.

Worth checking out at least;

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7553

Sharina actually not being a midget anymore! ::le gasm::

and the hips fix is a great idea.

A few other "essentials" in regards to placeables and area design. You guys might have already included these;

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7608 (50 kb)

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=2333 (16 kb)

Also... in regards to shields. Might be worth including at least one large + tower model of these (aka, not all of them, to reduce size)... since, they're kind of unique;

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=2613

And even though it may no longer be reasonable to add, the Rocky Mountains Tileset is -always- worth considering >.<

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=3936

And in regards to just general awesomeness...

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6283

And someone somewhere mentioned additional weapons:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=2682

I should probably stop browsing HAKs now.

But, yeah. >.<

To give HIPS a cooldown timer, does not require a hak.

I have yet to hear/see an easily implemented and fully working cooldown timer for HiPS without a HAK.

And since we're adding HAKs to Amia, it may as well be considered.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Riddle wrote:

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

Especially.. since it does not need a hak to do. Ive seen servers without a single hack with a null cloak option.

Why not do a poll and see what people want?

I ...Kinda agree, honestly. If people burn 10Levels or spend 25Dc's to get wings, they should show.

OK, you got a point. Where's the HAK that does this? I will add it and we can always decide later if it's gonna happen or not. Whether I think it's something for spineless lamers shouldn't really matter.

Not adding more weapons and stuff. The alternative phenos are way too big.

The interior windows are in. Placeable water I'll add, good find. The doors are already on the list to do.

Last edited by Dev Disco on Mon, Dec 21 2009, 11:52 AM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

"Because Disc says so". Polls mean nothing folks, this is purely the chicken's show here. The DMs do not have much say at all either.

Well, the poll says nothing about the content, and I am actually adding stuff that people suggest here and in the DM forums. The poll asks "HAK or no HAK?", and I'd say the answer is quite clear. It also says "you can do as you please", which I will do when it comes to making choices to keep the hak size sensible.

May I remind you that you posted this in the DM forum, btw?

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Oh: we must add invisible cloaks and helmets! That's perhaps the best single aesthetic tweak possible.

Bah, if you are wearing a helm or cloak, you rare wearing a helm or cloak. Suck it up..

This was echoed by a few other DMs so I gathered it's a no go. Which perfectly suits my own distaste of the idea, of course.

Dev Disco wrote:

Muspelkvist wrote:

Riddle wrote:

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

Especially.. since it does not need a hak to do. Ive seen servers without a single hack with a null cloak option.

Why not do a poll and see what people want?

I ...Kinda agree, honestly. If people burn 10Levels or spend 25Dc's to get wings, they should show.

OK, you got a point. Where's the HAK that does this? I will add it and we can always decide later if it's gonna happen or not. Whether I think it's something for spineless lamers shouldn't really matter.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6937

That one speaks of adding a null cloak slot.

But that HAK obviously has more shit in it than that.

Someone else could find a HAK that has already been stripped down to just null cloak slot.

Don't forget the helmet.

I cant check now (On the wrong computer) but I think theres an invisible model in the infamous diety cloak hak. That also had cloak models that had wings showing through as well, if thats something to consider, but that might cause even more bloat if it requires double the number of cloak models for wing/wingless variants.

That also looks absolutely horrible

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6939

This one could do the trick.

Was simple enough.

Now you just need to add the CEP neck cloaks as well... :roll:

Nopes. I want all the content to be finished today and I have other things to do as well.

I Realy like it all... yet I have not seen any realistic warhammer models.
I mean all that are in nwn look either like short hafted mauls or extremly large smithing hammers. Where are the Bec de Corbin? you know the hammers with the small hammerhead and the large spike on the opposite end. I believe I saw one in CEP2.
Further Thumbs up, I'm realy looking forward to this.

p.s. Kenku's

Riddle wrote:

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

I understand shady characters wearing a cloak to disquise themselves.. but you seriously expect people to take of their cloak in combat and loose in pvp automatically just because they decided to take of their cloak so it wouldnt get in the way while fighting.. which makes them less potent.. it makes less sense than getting stats from something that doesnt appear. Why would a monk/assassin/and many more classes wear cloaks while fighting? It screws up everything for them. Cloaks would only be used in infiltrations etc. For example if I wanted to make a cool ninja assassin, I wouldnt. Simply because he would look like a retard with a cloak on while assassinating someone.

I cut a few sentences out that I'm not addressing. Sure, you may remove a normal cloak while fighting because it gets in your way, but not a magical one, which is the important distinction. If you want a magical cloak to give you magical benefits, you have to wear the damn thing.

Well, that thing can fall either way: you don't see your rings, gloves, belts etc either. So, you wear something that isn't there anyway.

The thing that tipped the balance for me is the annoying spell slots removal thing. That's indeed a drag and I guess adding a null cloak help there.

Haven't seen a null helmet, though.

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, that thing can fall either way: you don't see your rings, gloves, belts etc either. So, you wear something that isn't there anyway.

The thing that tipped the balance for me is the annoying spell slots removal thing. That's indeed a drag and I guess adding a null cloak help there.

Haven't seen a null helmet, though.

Rings and belts are easy to hide whilst wearing them. Gloves ... well, they should be crafted onto the clothes tbh.

Yurell wrote:

Riddle wrote:

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

I understand shady characters wearing a cloak to disquise themselves.. but you seriously expect people to take of their cloak in combat and loose in pvp automatically just because they decided to take of their cloak so it wouldnt get in the way while fighting.. which makes them less potent.. it makes less sense than getting stats from something that doesnt appear. Why would a monk/assassin/and many more classes wear cloaks while fighting? It screws up everything for them. Cloaks would only be used in infiltrations etc. For example if I wanted to make a cool ninja assassin, I wouldnt. Simply because he would look like a retard with a cloak on while assassinating someone.

I cut a few sentences out that I'm not addressing. Sure, you may remove a normal cloak while fighting because it gets in your way, but not a magical one, which is the important distinction. If you want a magical cloak to give you magical benefits, you have to wear the damn thing.

Im saying you can wear something else IC instead of the damn thing and pretend thats where you get the bonuses from. There are many many things the engine limits us on, and we do a lot of pretending, so pretending once again on something most people agree on and love isnt gonna do any harm whatsoever.

HIPS - a script taking away your hide/ms skill for a set ammount of time after you attack in HIPS, like the pickpocket skill is reduced. All servers that did this not only reduced the skill to -1 after attacking but also added a white glow to the hipser, letting the enemies and the shadowdancer himself know when he can restealth, when the glow is gone. Although this is a bit too harsh I think. Reducing the hide/ms for a few seconds is nice.

Invisible cloak - doesnt need a hak. Im not much of a builder but Ive been to servers with absolutely no haks, that had 1 option for 'null cloak' dunno how they do it but Im sure Disco can figure it out without adding to the hak size needlessly.

I can make a null cloak, no problem. You do want one with an icon, though. It's rather hard to find an invisible item in a big inventory.

Dev Disco wrote:

I can make a null cloak, no problem. You do want one with an icon, though. It's rather hard to find an invisible item in a big inventory.

Plz & thx

Dev Disco wrote:

I can make a null cloak, no problem. You do want one with an icon, though. It's rather hard to find an invisible item in a big inventory.

Would be awesome!

Null helmets wont be happening. It is overly complicated. There's two ways to do it.

1: Since helmets remove your head when you put them on, we would have to make new helmet models for -every- head as a helmet model. Which will take a lot of space as there is no easy 2da editing since there is no helmetmodel2da.

2: We have to turn every head into a raised neck model and make an invisible helmet model. Which is worthless to the players since you can not edit your default neck anywhere. And when you have no helmet on you have a double head.

So it will never happen. Both take up mad amounts of space and just not worth it.

Meh, I don't like the idea of null cloaks or helmets. If you're wearing a helmet and/or cloak, then you're wearing the damn helmet and/or cloak. What's the point of having null ones? So your PC looks hawt? Bah! If you're wearing it, you're wearing it, don't be a baby.

Mr Mago wrote:

AAlso... in regards to shields. Might be worth including at least one large + tower model of these (aka, not all of them, to reduce size)... since, they're kind of unique;

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=2613

Those are kick ass! I dig'em! Those would fit well for some feral PC and NPC types.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Meh, I don't like the idea of null cloaks or helmets. If you're wearing a helmet and/or cloak, then you're wearing the damn helmet and/or cloak. What's the point of having null ones? So your PC looks hawt? Bah! If you're wearing it, you're wearing it, don't be a baby.

Well, the entire point of armor crafting, and much of this HAK, is to look hawt.

It is an aesthetic matter, purely and simply. Several valid arguments have been presented why it's not necessary to show your cloak. Besides, we did run the game without cloaks for years: their addition was an aesthetic change, just as hiding them would be.

We are playing make-believe. I can imagine a dozen different ways you could be getting your cloak enchantment or wearing a smaller cloak than that limited set which is available in NWN. Maybe you're wearing it as a scarf? Maybe it's in your scabbard, the blessing. Maybe the cloak is under your robes/armor.

So it boils down to taste: what looks good. That's what we want, after all: new material to make the game look good, so as to inspire our imagination further and make it seem fresh. Some diversity in adventuring garb is a welcome change.

Riddle wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I can make a null cloak, no problem. You do want one with an icon, though. It's rather hard to find an invisible item in a big inventory.

Would be awesome!

Yes, the no-cloak option would be nice. I like the look of most of my characters without a cloak.

I bet someone will ask if having a cloak while not having a cloak has any meaning in the reality of Amia. Well, maybe not, but how many knights wore cloaks in mideval timez? I doubt most of them did. I'm not gonna sell my cloak just for the look when it can give me +4 AC and +4 to all my saves.

While personally I don't really like Haks after long experience with them, and am perfectly content with what is now available on the server, I have faith in Disco and the staff so I'll go with what is decided.

I'm gonna toss this into the cloak argument. Why should you get the bonuses without the apperance? Because if thats the case why don't you just have a null sheild to let people use weapons with one hand, and while your at it, toss in some AC for 2H weapons because they don't get to use a sheild.

Kinda lame not having a cloak, but getting the bonuses. Very unfair to the other features that also don't have the slots filled and thus don't get the bonuses.

Have to agree with Selvec.

Cloaks have a visual representation and should considering that they do more often then not grant some sort of boon.

Because other items could potentially reproduce the same properties as a cloak, as already mentioned. Also, we've got a lot of new back slot items like quivers and backpacks that we hardly ever see, because everyone is wearing a cloak.

And it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to people who bought wings, which don't show up under cloaks.

Same reason that the amulet or rings a character is wearing don't have to be visible on the character. It reduces what would otherwise be problematic visual clutter.

You could argue that since a cloak will provide the same bonuses when worn, a medium-sized PC could wear a small-sized cloak and get the same bonus as a medium-sized cloak, without it looking like they have a stolen rug taped messily to their shoulders.

Okay, slight exaggeration. But if tehre is one part of a player's inventory which should be optionally visible, it's the cloak. Unless someone finds some kind of cool combat vest, which could be the defacto null cloak appearance.

Oh, well when I finally manage to get a monkey grip widget for my greatsword I'll be sure to ask that I can have a Null sheild, so I can get the bonuses of having sheild, but reduce the visual problems that occur from using a sheild and greatsword. Such as clipping and animation lock up's.

Sheaths and such can be made into actual items that are desginated as cloaks and fit into the cloak area. The same back wearing items can also be added to the models avaliable for cloaks, allowing them to be selected in the crafting menu. Which is preferrable from having people walking about with no cloak showing, but getting the bonuses.

As for the wings. Easy, don't wear the cloaks. Cloaks SHOULD hide wings. It's something that people should have considered when buying the wings. Infact cloaks hiding wings can be a boon when going into cities like Cordor that have a populace who are more then weary of "Freak" PC's.

Tbh, I play most of my chars as wearing huge backpack... there is awesome model for it made avalible trough leather crafting in job system along with sheats. And you know what? I want it do damn show since both items would show over the cloak. Id wear them that way.

Now saying we need whole new set of items just because so everything we wear is visible (even tho amulets, rings, lenses, and several other important items like say bard instruments arent visible) and complicate amount and getting of same items? Id say getting null cloak option for people who want to wear backpack (and cant really loose that cloak spot because, you know some chars can barely reach 40 ac) is much simpler and painless alternative.

Besides, visible or invisible items are matter of personal like or dislike, why should it be only that way you see fit? Why not simply embrace the idea that gives both sides to have their fun, hm? You know, you like cloaks, wear it, someone other likes wings/backpacks/sheats/swords/quilvers and let them have their fun?

One other option worth mentioning is that you can set cloaks to be off in your NWNPlayer.INI file.

Code:

VisibleCloaks=0

This only affects you, of course. Anyone who has this set to 1 will see claoks.

Alright, this visible/invisable cloak stuff I'll finally comment on.

I've been, and still am, on both sides of the argument. Part of me wants to "look good" all the time. But helms or cloaks make that feel hard since they have to be visable.

Then again, I'm leaning to appreciate that look of "suited up to work". And so when I don't look as great, well, that's because I'm going practical over vanity for that bit of time.

And so I conclude to:

I want whatever the f*** is smaller in file size and easiest on the server. If you find a hak pact that's good, simple, small, shoot me with it. Otherwise forget the argument if you don't have a low-cost product to do it. The file size and server strain risk will be the decider for me.

2cents.

Adding a null cloak will add a whooping 1.6 kb to the total filesize of the HAK.

If I am not mistaken Arelith has the option to set your cloak to visible or invisible without a hak. On the great sword argument, using a two handed weapon gives you the 1.5 times the damage so it already has its benefits for not using a shield. Also remember, Kobolds and Goblins items do not show at all, no armor, helm, or cloak so it should not be a issue in not seeing the cloak. What you need to consider more is how it affects the RP and character development of the character, to have seen a cloak or not to see it can be a part of that characters persona.

I don't suppose there is a hak to be able to choose which hand your character wields their weapon in. Always thought it was weird everyone in Faerun is right-handed according to Bioware, heh.

BloodNAshes wrote:

I don't suppose there is a hak to be able to choose which hand your character wields their weapon in. Always thought it was weird everyone in Faerun is right-handed according to Bioware, heh.

As a left-hander, I concur. It's discrimination!

So everyone knows, there's a way you can still wear a cloak and still see your wings. You can set it to any cloak, but I think it should just be looked at for the "thin" cloaks so they still show out the sides and not through the cloak. I'm running it by the necessary folks, it's not a hak, and it may be able to be set serverside.

I doubt anyone could fly by flapping their wings, with a great big cape on.

TormakSaber wrote:

I doubt anyone could fly by flapping their wings, with a great big cape on.

No kidding! It is only after I have used the Fly Widget, wearing a cloak, that I remember that my character is able to fly because of his wings, and not because of a cloak a la Superman. >_>;;

Few are the times I remember to emote removing the cloak before flying.

We'll go all the way on the cloaks, and no way on the helmets.

I havent read the last 5 pages of teh thread, I admit, so dont kill me if this questions have been answered or suggested before:

Question: Will a hood model for the helmet be implemented? (Noone said you cant wear a hood around your helmet, if thats the counter)

Suggestion: The CEP, in my oppinion, has one of teh very best selection of new armour appearences of all kinds, from robes to leg, arm, chest etc pieces. Will some of this be impleneted? I especially would like to see the fur leg and arm pieces, as well as those nice looking travelling boots, and the looser thigh pieces, so i can actually make my elf look like something else than an anorectic, flat chested girl.

I <3 whatever da poultry chooses

Ah, I Dl'ed the hak and checked it in the toolset, and i have but one complaint: The fur pieces have been added for arms, but not for legs and hands, is it possible to include those as well, for a "armour set" feeling? The shins and feet do look awesome, so please, give it a thought.

TormakSaber wrote:

I doubt anyone could fly by flapping their wings, with a great big cape on.

I doubt anyone could fly with the size of those wings regardless of whether the cloak is there or not.

QPR wrote:

Ah, I Dl'ed the hak and checked it in the toolset, and i have but one complaint: The fur pieces have been added for arms, but not for legs and hands, is it possible to include those as well, for a "armour set" feeling? The shins and feet do look awesome, so please, give it a thought.

You miss quite a lot more pieces, I am afraid. The ones that went in got in by accident (ie: these bits did look good, the rest looks like you are wearing a camel).

Ie; they are not yet included in the pack but will be, or there will be alot fewer pieces in the final hak?

... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

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