AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - ... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

Is there not even a chance to have the null cloak as a DC only thing? It still takes up a slot. We went for YEARS without seeing the cloaks perfectly well. Iron Angel spoke about rping helms as circlets, etc. Null cloaks seems like something which would make a lot of people happy.

If possible, could a hak allow for sheaths and such to take up the slot instead? This way you still have an item using the cloak slot, it is visable, but isn't actually a cloak.

You can wear boots and appear barefoot.

You can wear clothing and appear naked.

You can have a belt on and see nothing.

Similarly, necklaces, rings, amulets, etc.

I can't really see the problem with cloaks.

Because there are scripts and mechanics that function off visible cloaks and helms. It doesn't matter if your helm is "invisible", if you are wearing one, you are not getting through a gate that wants your helm off. IF you are wearing a helm, you are wearing a helm...

The fact that you can be barefoot without boots and naked with clothes is a sideeffect of the crafting system. IF you have boots on and are barefoot you are basically metagaming the item slot. If you want the item's power, you wear the item. IF you are geared out you are wearing 2 rings, magic bracer,s magic boots, an amulet/choker, a cloak/mantle/cape/shouldergarb, a helmet, you are wearing your "torso item", and you are holding your weapon and shield. WYSIWYG. If you don't want to wear a helm, don't wear the helm.

EDIT A better answer. "No, because Disco said so." Afraid there's really no a arguing with that. DM or otherwise. Considering this project is Disco's doing and he will do as he pleases and take what opinions he wants.

Indeed. I have looked for circlets and stuff and can't find any, so it ends there. Just put your cloak and helmet in a quickslot and you are done.

Btw, about a third of the current bulk is taken by a tileset that I won't use on A. I could therefore split the HAK in two so people wanting to sample A only have to download the first 35-40 MB. That could bring the threshold a bit down.

Alright, this has my support, to put it simply.

Only question I have is "When will this be be added?"

If this was already answered, please send a quote or a link in response

After the holidays. Probably halfway january?

The stance on null cloaks seems more bullheaded than wise by now.

Specially considering that Bioware only implemented one cloak model that shows both shoulder pads, and only one model that shows one of the shoulder pads, covering the other.

More so that Bioware totally ignored the large phenotypes when implementing the cloaks, causing fatties to have cloaks that are not only out of proportion, but they also look like shit.

I love cloaks, in general. But I'm getting more and more annoyed with Bioware's implementation of them.

The CEP cloaks (neck-slot on your armor) look way better, in all aspects, in my opinion.

Holy crap. I'm gone for a few days to move house and we go from 3 to what 8 pages? Anyway I'm back!

Mago: indeed. Helmets are a secondary concern, but cloaks even have clipping issues with hair and stuff. Null cloaks is not a consistency issue as Didi points out, neither an IC concern because you could get the enchantment wearing something smaller and more elegant. The Bioware cloaks are ugly, poorly implemented and ruin many armor designs. Nothing's more stupid than wearing a robe and a cloak.

I doubt whining will change anything, but I'll keep whining anyway.

Was it intended to include some weapons and shield additions as well?

Quote:

New weapons and shields
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... ail&id=836
4.4 MB

That pack seems very nice.

Check the first post?

IronAngel wrote:

Mago: indeed. Helmets are a secondary concern, but cloaks even have clipping issues with hair and stuff. Null cloaks is not a consistency issue as Didi points out, neither an IC concern because you could get the enchantment wearing something smaller and more elegant. The Bioware cloaks are ugly, poorly implemented and ruin many armor designs. Nothing's more stupid than wearing a robe and a cloak.

I doubt whining will change anything, but I'll keep whining anyway.

Still, what's the problem? You are in a room chatting: no cloak. You are in the middle of a fight: cloak. I doubt you are really admiring your looks at the latter event. Quickslot the cloak and you switch in a fraction of a second. This is a matter of you being able to deal with it yourself.

Found two other nice weapon HAKs.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... ail&id=207 - 650kb

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=2250 - 3.8 mb (has very nice shields also)

The latter has some odd looking bastard swords, but other than that, it's very high quality and looks good.

And then... I also found this one:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6458

Lol.

Dev Disco wrote:

IronAngel wrote:

Mago: indeed. Helmets are a secondary concern, but cloaks even have clipping issues with hair and stuff. Null cloaks is not a consistency issue as Didi points out, neither an IC concern because you could get the enchantment wearing something smaller and more elegant. The Bioware cloaks are ugly, poorly implemented and ruin many armor designs. Nothing's more stupid than wearing a robe and a cloak.

I doubt whining will change anything, but I'll keep whining anyway.

Still, what's the problem? You are in a room chatting: no cloak. You are in the middle of a fight: cloak. I doubt you are really admiring your looks at the latter event. Quickslot the cloak and you switch in a fraction of a second. This is a matter of you being able to deal with it yourself.

I know at least one person who is vain enough to want to not wear a cloak in HiPS... Honestly, I care what my character looks like, but I don't care what other people's look like. If they want to wear a chainmail bikini, fine by me. Veh wears bare legs and full plate. We're so far from WYSIWYG, do we really need to dictate how other people's characters look?

Dev Disco wrote:

<snip>

Still, what's the problem? You are in a room chatting: no cloak. You are in the middle of a fight: cloak. I doubt you are really admiring your looks at the latter event. Quickslot the cloak and you switch in a fraction of a second. This is a matter of you being able to deal with it yourself.

I do this! Especially when I want my Dragon Disciple to show off his wings!

Anyway, in January I'll be on vacation and will have a lot of spare time to test the HAKs, provided my sister coming to visit does not require too much attention >_>;;

I honestly hope it will not kill my computer.

Didi wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

IronAngel wrote:

Mago: indeed. Helmets are a secondary concern, but cloaks even have clipping issues with hair and stuff. Null cloaks is not a consistency issue as Didi points out, neither an IC concern because you could get the enchantment wearing something smaller and more elegant. The Bioware cloaks are ugly, poorly implemented and ruin many armor designs. Nothing's more stupid than wearing a robe and a cloak.

I doubt whining will change anything, but I'll keep whining anyway.

Still, what's the problem? You are in a room chatting: no cloak. You are in the middle of a fight: cloak. I doubt you are really admiring your looks at the latter event. Quickslot the cloak and you switch in a fraction of a second. This is a matter of you being able to deal with it yourself.

I know at least one person who is vain enough to want to not wear a cloak in HiPS... Honestly, I care what my character looks like, but I don't care what other people's look like. If they want to wear a chainmail bikini, fine by me. Veh wears bare legs and full plate. We're so far from WYSIWYG, do we really need to dictate how other people's characters look?

Disco has spoken and the argument is done. you are wasting your breaths I'm afraid.

Oh, but about the cloak thing, Tormak, have you guys made the decision to let wings show through the slender models?

It took me all of 2 minutes to do it, and it's not even a hak. And I don't think anyone can object to them showing on those models. Your wings are big enough to fly, but small enough to both fit under a cape that doesn't even stretch far enough to cover each shoulder? Please. :wink:

"you guys"? No. Talk to Disco. The poll makes this quite clear: This is Disco's project. Not anyone else's input. He will take and leave as he likes.

I was referring to the Override thread, the whole cloaksmodel.2da thing. Either way, I'll run it by Disco, yes.

Mr Mago wrote:

And then... I also found this one:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6458

Lol.

I think some of those should actually go in. Cook characters with a pan, actual mugs to hold in a tavern. Seems like a good addition in my eyes. If they dont take too much room I'd actually add the whole thing.

If we can find some well done ones, perhaps just one or two intruments.

A lute model and a harp model should be fine.

Disco already took care of instruments I believe.

Dev Disco wrote:

Btw, about a third of the current bulk is taken by a tileset that I won't use on A. I could therefore split the HAK in two so people wanting to sample A only have to download the first 35-40 MB. That could bring the threshold a bit down.

What did you mean by this? I don't understand

I'd rather avoid an A/B division if possible, to be honest.

Yeah, I think it's better to have all the HAKs you will need, even if the A and B modules themselves don't use the same custom tilesets (quite right too, less resources means less lag).

Phearnun wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

And then... I also found this one:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6458

Lol.

I think some of those should actually go in. Cook characters with a pan, actual mugs to hold in a tavern. Seems like a good addition in my eyes. If they dont take too much room I'd actually add the whole thing.

Those are cool, but they should not be options when crafting for players. They should be only built by the loot system so that they aren't "+5 w/ 2d12 negative energyz!!!". That would be stupid. They should be blunt weapons, cheap weapons.

Start with some Hin stuff to show new hobbit holes and some clothes!

New robes and hobbit holes!

Trading with a fancy dressed hin.

Lets get a view from the hill...

OMG! Its a mansion!

Some new girl clothes, skirt, high boots, and shoulder bag!

Sitting by the lake.

Bye little house! Off to find a bigger one.

Looks like it might be big enough for us both...

Trader claims his home!

What's inside?

Will post more with some stuff made from other tilesets.

Victory for the Hin! That'd be perfect for the Dale expansion/remodeling *Puppydog eyes*

Just two for now of the suspended city and my Satyr dude I made.

Super Satyr!

Watching from above.

Question about the suspended city. Is the forest floor the area beneath the city, or is it a generic texture for that specfic tile, and show's up no matter what area is beneath the city? Or is it all PLC's?

Its all one tileset, no plcs and the forest floor beneath is actually the forest floor.

Thats pretty amazing actually. Kinda breaking the game engine, given your not meant to beable to go under walkable surfaces and such. Nifty.

Oh, and non-laggy horses incase anybodies interested.
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7365

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

<snip> Pictures and hawt Satyrs

Will it be possible for players to just "Craft" those Satyr legs, or must you Request them?

We've not got that far in deciding stuff yet.

I added them to be able to create monsters withotu actually needing the critters. Handy for demons and stuff. They aren't bodyparts, btw, but shins and legs and feet of armour. And no, you won't be able to use those options.

Out of curiousity, what are the chances of getting any new spells? I'm not sure how these haks work so im just curious.

Dev Disco wrote:

They aren't bodyparts, btw, but shins and legs and feet of armour. And no, you won't be able to use those options.

Perhaps character requests or DC stuff?

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Out of curiousity, what are the chances of getting any new spells? I'm not sure how these haks work so im just curious.

Almost nil. We are not looking to break game balance, and buffing sorcerors and wizards and clerics would certainly do exactly that.

I am adding some new VFX, though, so we might add some new stuff later on. Doesn't costa lot of space and you never know what comes up.

since your doing hak's is there any chance of some new weapons. just things like a large warhammer? large club? just i would love to have a barbarian run around with either of those and especially my orgillion with a big meaty club not those useless one handed ones.

If you can convince Disco to also add every weapon feat required and make a bunch of items to add to the shops to support the weapon....

its time like these i wish i was any good at scripts and i would help out with it, but to be honest i would rather have the new tile sets more than any other hak. just had to suggest weapons cause its been in my head for ages of me using a big club to beat things with.

Well, I have been spendign every single free hour thsi week on merging hak stuff, and I kinda closed the shop. It's gonna be between 60 and 65 meg, btw.

Last edited by Riddle on Mon, Dec 21 2009, 9:43 AM, edited 3 times in total.

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

Especially.. since it does not need a hak to do. Ive seen servers without a single hack with a null cloak option.

Why not do a poll and see what people want?

I understand shady characters wearing a cloak to disquise themselves.. but you seriously expect people to take of their cloak in combat and loose in pvp automatically just because they decided to take of their cloak so it wouldnt get in the way while fighting.. which makes them less potent.. it makes less sense than getting stats from something that doesnt appear. Why would a monk/assassin/and many more classes wear cloaks while fighting? It screws up everything for them. Cloaks would only be used in infiltrations etc. For example if I wanted to make a cool ninja assassin, I wouldnt. Simply because he would look like a retard with a cloak on while assassinating someone.

Oh let me guess. Dont like a cloak dont wear it while assassinating? Ok. Then Maybe I should just walk into the room, lay my weapons down and crie/beg for forgivness since Im now in no condition to fight?

This doesnt just go for assassins either.

Riddle wrote:

I can understand when you say this is Disco's new set of lego's etc when we talk about cloaks but I really dont get why we cant have a null cloak. You just keep saying simply NO but seriously. Whats the big deal/reasoning behind it? Because we get stats from an item that doesnt appear/we dont wear? There are other things you can get the cloak stats from. Warious gadgets/tools your character could be wearing. Weapon sheathes, etc.

Why not when adding just 1 invisible cloak option would make everyone happy? Guys.. I thought youre trying to make the most enjoyable server you can, yet you refuse to do the simplest thing that would make everyone enjoy the server much more.

Especially.. since it does not need a hak to do. Ive seen servers without a single hack with a null cloak option.

Why not do a poll and see what people want?

I ...Kinda agree, honestly. If people burn 10Levels or spend 25Dc's to get wings, they should show.

"Because Disc says so". Polls mean nothing folks, this is purely the chicken's show here. The DMs do not have much say at all either.

Dev Disco wrote:

Indeed. I have looked for circlets and stuff and can't find any, so it ends there. Just put your cloak and helmet in a quickslot and you are done.

This isn't really practical for casting classes, as they lose memorized spells when they unequip items that grant INT (or whatever casting stat) or bonus spell slots. I haven't seen any INT cloaks but many mages use Thayvian Circlets, which look like helmets, strangely.

Lesquille wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

Indeed. I have looked for circlets and stuff and can't find any, so it ends there. Just put your cloak and helmet in a quickslot and you are done.

This isn't really practical for casting classes, as they lose memorized spells when they unequip items that grant INT (or whatever casting stat) or bonus spell slots. I haven't seen any INT cloaks but many mages use Thayvian Circlets, which look like helmets, strangely.

1 extended fox cunning and you're good.
It's what I do.

... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

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