AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - We believe we are now losing more players to hardcore server

Last edited by chefwudan on Thu, Dec 17 2009, 11:56 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Kjetta wrote:

Some background: We believe we are now losing more players to hardcore servers than social/arena servers. So far, this is just a hunch, if anyone can provide information regarding this, we would greatly appreciate it. Send a PM.
Anyways, our working thesis is: NWN-players are growing up, and while the arcade aspects of the game is starting to fade, NWN still stands the test of time as an excellent facilitator for RP. This creates an environment where hardcore/mature RP settings are more likely to survive and thrive than easy-going disney-fied "RP lite" servers. Amia is currently struggeling with an (undeserved?) image as something of the latter.

well IMO i think that "some" players/DM's are turning Amia into their own playground and have lost sight of the ultimate goal... RPing things that are fun for EVERYONE and not just one's self.

In my personal experiences, i have played on Amia since around Sept/Oct or 05' and it has been a haven for fun and learning for me. I owe just about all of my knowledge of D&D and Faerun to those that i have met along the way. but as of recently there has been a sour atmosphere for me when i login. Anyone that knows me knows i love to RP hins and long ago decided to start sending anyone with a halfling name a tell saying lets start a halfling guild and get the halflings of Amia united. In a short time Bendir was flourishing with many players into halflings such as myself. But at some point a particular group took charge of things in the Dale and have basically turned it into a PvP haven where an Epic Halfing can find just about any excuse to attack another player without really even giving them a "real" chance to react of even RP anything... its just the PvP warning then and attack very shortly after... sometimes even attacking people that are AFK.

In these examples the other players and left upset and irritated of the actions of some that IMO are waaaaay to aggresive in enforcing laws IC.. quickly resorting to killing another player with little regard to life ICly. Would someone really be killed, put to death, murdered for having an attitude or not conforming within a 5-10 sec timeframe.

As a result I am left reading the above quote and can't but think that we should start with revising PvP rules in general. Lets say your new to Amia and you don't know how things are, lets say you find a new town, and run inside looking around because you've never seen the town before. You go up to a vendor and clck on a store, than decide this is a good time to pee... then you come back and find your PC dead because he had his weapons drawn in town and as a result of being AFK didnt't respond.

Well this incident actually happened, i saw it first hand... the right thing should have been to just ignore the player until the came back for AFK... NOT kill them.

Well if you seriously want to know why you think people are leaving Amia for other servers, keep this in mind... oh and btw that person logged after the incident... and i honestly can't recall ever seeing him again. Even though some people won't say it out loud, i have talked to plenty or people that have experienced this first hand that aren't happy neither how some people literally get away with bullying and/or killing people without real cause other than to satisfy their thirst for PvP... and thats what Bendir has became, a PvP happy town of epic halflings waiting for someone stupid enough to stroll in merely holding a torch so they can enact thier superiority upon them

Well, if i don't unistall NWN after this post i may see some of you IG.

Good Luck... and happy "RPing" *cough* not PvPing *cough*

Last edited by BlackDahlya on Thu, Dec 17 2009, 5:12 AM, edited 1 time in total.

You do know you can always take screenshots and take it to the DMs if you feel you are being abused, right?

It does not make things any better come to the forum and start complaining about such incidents without proof.

In this case, there is nothing a DM can do about it.

Always take screenshots. That is the only way to curb abuse.

EDIT: Ugh.. typo. >.<

Reading over this the first thing that comes to mind is the following:

Deal with it IC.

This honestly sounds likes complaining about legit IC actions, and would be best handeled by having your character take IC actions to resolve it.

If a DM don't get tolded, a player can't get scolded.

Make that your mantra, folks.

I've seen so much "I've talked to so many people and they all agree XYZ happens too much and we're sick of being bullied." Time and time again we ask for names, incidents etc. Usually people say "we don't wanna bother the DM's."

To which I say...again...It is part of our job to keep a safe, and happy playerbase. If you don't report incidents, we don't snag the bad guys, and they keep on keepin on.

Odd. I've been to Bendir Dale a hundred times and never been PvP'd there. In fact, the natives wave and say hello, and I'm not a hin nor have I ever played one!

I have never had that problem either. Actually, I play Amia for a long time and I have rarely had any reason to PvP at all.

The very few times I've ever encountered PvP with my characters have been in the Arena / Brawl.

Got problems? Screenshot, screenshot, screenshot.

I don't mind when people play bullies and power-tripping guards IC...

But quite a few of them don't know how to draw the line between doing that IC and OOC. A lot of times, you'll get jumped or abused IC and then ask for a PVP Tool rez OOC and they will react snarky and say you need to respawn (wasting XP and gold) because of IC events that you had little/no control over.

And in the end, isn't that the main problem we're facing in this type of dilemma? Loss of control of one's own character in RP? I believe every character should have the right to decide their character's level of involvement in RP and everyone should have a LITTLE bit of OOC courtesy for RL circumstances (such as afk for bio breaks).

My main peeve is when I try to RP my way OUT of a controversial situation (such as a team of lvl 30s harassing my level 12) and I say "Ok I'll leave!" and respectfully try to run away and they make it a point to blue-wall me (attacking me while I'm still neutral towards them) and kill me before I can even get out of range. And then refuse to PvP rez me when I ask OOC (cuz how are you going to ask IC when you're dead?).

Those that do these things are a disgrace to respectable RP and manners in general. Of course, this is all my own opinion. And I'm sure many will disagree.

Jyro X wrote:

My main peeve is when I try to RP my way OUT of a controversial situation (such as a team of lvl 30s harassing my level 12) and I say "Ok I'll leave!" and respectfully try to run away and they make it a point to blue-wall me (attacking me while I'm still neutral towards them) and kill me before I can even get out of range. And then refuse to PvP rez me when I ask OOC (cuz how are you going to ask IC when you're dead?).

Those that do these things are a disgrace to respectable RP and manners in general. Of course, this is all my own opinion. And I'm sure many will disagree.

I'm pretty sure both of these things (attacking you while neutral, not giving OOC raise) are against the rules, or at least used to be. Take screenshots next time and send them to a DM.

Another one of these topics? Look,if you don't submit screenshots or something, we can't do anything. All you do is make yourself look bas by complaining incessantly on the forums without being able to give us any sort of proof. It's frustrating on both ends, I'm sure, and I as usual do not appreciate the "ski is falling" approach this topic took.

chefwudan wrote:

<snip>

I've never had any issues with you so don't take this the wrong way, but I think that you just delivered a low blow right here. You called out a generalized group as "ruining Hin RP". That's pretty uncalled for, especially when what you're describing can be perfectly reasonable (save for the killing of the AFK guy), ICly. ICly, Bendir Dale Hin have every reason to be angry and bitter if they like. Less we forget how people used to come in to the town and start trouble with the Hin in town; arguing, insulting, illegal summons, weapons out and being aggressive, lots of PvP, etc. These Hin kinda have reason to be aggressive and on edge if they want to. What's IC is IC, leave it there.

As for the killing of the AFK person, you should have taken a screenshot of that. That's a dick move of whoever did that, if they knew the person was AFK.

That said, this topic isn't doing anyone any good. In fact, this topic is harmful. It's publicly flinging poo at a specific player base within the greater Amian player base. Specific incidents are to be reported, not made a public spectacle. It's an Amian rule too.

Jyro X wrote:

My main peeve is when I try to RP my way OUT of a controversial situation (such as a team of lvl 30s harassing my level 12) and I say "Ok I'll leave!" and respectfully try to run away and they make it a point to blue-wall me (attacking me while I'm still neutral towards them) and kill me before I can even get out of range. And then refuse to PvP rez me when I ask OOC (cuz how are you going to ask IC when you're dead?).

Those that do these things are a disgrace to respectable RP and manners in general. Of course, this is all my own opinion. And I'm sure many will disagree.

If people are doing this, why aren't you taking screenshots to prove it? Take screenshots when these things happen! DM's can't slap the hand of the pricks if you don't do anything about trying to prove it. Don't complain about it, report it and do something about it instead.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

chefwudan wrote:

<snip>

I've never had any issues with you so don't take this the wrong way, but I think that you just delivered a low blow right here. You called out a generalized group as "ruining Hin RP". That's pretty uncalled for, especially when what you're describing can be perfectly reasonable (save for the killing of the AFK guy), ICly. ICly, Bendir Dale Hin have every reason to be angry and bitter if they like. Less we forget how people used to come in to the town and start trouble with the Hin in town; arguing, insulting, illegal summons, weapons out and being aggressive, lots of PvP, etc. These Hin kinda have reason to be aggressive and on edge if they want to. What's IC is IC, leave it there.

As for the killing of the AFK person, you should have taken a screenshot of that. That's a (censored) move of whoever did that, if they knew the person was AFK.

That said, this topic isn't doing anyone any good. In fact, this topic is harmful. It's publicly flinging poo at a specific player base within the greater Amian player base. Specific incidents are to be reported, not made a public spectacle. It's an Amian rule too.

Jyro X wrote:

My main peeve is when I try to RP my way OUT of a controversial situation (such as a team of lvl 30s harassing my level 12) and I say "Ok I'll leave!" and respectfully try to run away and they make it a point to blue-wall me (attacking me while I'm still neutral towards them) and kill me before I can even get out of range. And then refuse to PvP rez me when I ask OOC (cuz how are you going to ask IC when you're dead?).

Those that do these things are a disgrace to respectable RP and manners in general. Of course, this is all my own opinion. And I'm sure many will disagree.

If people are doing this, why aren't you taking screenshots to prove it? Take screenshots when these things happen! DM's can't slap the hand of the pricks if you don't do anything about trying to prove it. Don't complain about it, report it and do something about it instead.

I've never been a tattle-tail type of player and it doesn't bother me enough to try and get a player in any real trouble. If it became a persistent thing and they kept doing it, I might say something but I don't see the point in starting OOC drama over stupid things, albeit quite annoying.

The Hin Militia have been pretty heavy handed in the past but equally so, people blatantly flout the laws there sometimes. Still, the whole thing doesn't make Bendir Dale a place stranger friendly.

Back to the main topic: I'll go off the 6 players that I had in the Ghaunadaur faction. One left because he plays other games now instead. Another left, due to RSI injury, another was peeved with the culture here so left, another got annoyed with something or other OOC with other players so left. One no longer played that character so left the faction but still plays here and the rest are unknown or decided surface RP was more their thing...

So people leave for all sorts of reasons but some are indeed leaving due to OOC hassle/issues around ways conflict is being handled, etc...

Most of the OOC hassle, btw, is from people not knowing the rules or being selfish and not giving a stuff about other players. Most of those types, who do that regularly, don't even log into the forums so don't even read the PvP rules.

Recommendation: Please put the PvP rules, in the Character Journal?

Quote:

I've never been a tattle-tail type of player and it doesn't bother me enough to try and get a player in any real trouble. If it became a persistent thing and they kept doing it, I might say something but I don't see the point in starting OOC drama over stupid things, albeit quite annoying.

Don't care, the DMs want to knowa bout it anyways because they will keep doing it until smacked by a DM. You are not "narcing", you are solving a problem.

Also, it's not like we're going to Banhammer everyone who makes PVP mistakes. It happens.

1000 times what Tormak said. The single most frustrating part of this gig for me is knowing someone's been treated unfairly and finding out about it a week later when they post it on the forum and quit.

Even if you don't know how to take screenshots and all you have is a name, please please please let us know.

re: Dale RP & the handling of Dale RP issues IC... Some Hin are actually trying to a start IC'ly anew elsewhere & leave the Dale behind them.

Well then I guess I'm an ass for caring about other people having fun.

And BTW, the incidents I mentioned didn't even happen to me.

Teufel Eldritch wrote:

re: Dale RP & the handling of Dale RP issues IC... Some Hin are actually trying to a start IC'ly anew elsewhere & leave the Dale behind them.

Wow, what in the nine happened? This about OOC politics?

chefwudan wrote:

Well then I guess I'm an ass for caring about other people having fun.

And BTW, the incidents I mentioned didn't even happen to me.

Then Bee Tee Doubleyew, your friends need to say something privately to a DM, and not tell their friends to make vague inflammatory, hostile topics on the general forums.

k?

Since you asked Tormy I will not make another post regarding this, in fact feel free to lock if you like

No. I want to know who has issues and why. PMs suffice. To any DM. I see problems and I want some solutions, but they will not be gotten unless the playerbase gets past this idea of not saying anything.

The ideal solution is of course that you guys mature slightly and talk to each other rationally on an OOC basis if need be, and then coming to us together with "we have a problem" if you can't solve it between yourselves.

That'd be hardcore!

Gr... I'm being serious here...

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Teufel Eldritch wrote:

re: Dale RP & the handling of Dale RP issues IC... Some Hin are actually trying to a start IC'ly anew elsewhere & leave the Dale behind them.

Wow, what in the nine happened? This about OOC politics?

No. IC politics mostly. But OOC stuff has also been a nissue for the past year or so. Maybe more.

There is a lot of things that bother me about Bendir Dale changes over the years. Change happens, whether to one's own liking or not.

I've let it be known on numerous occasions that I've not been happy playing in Bendir Dale more than the times I've loved playing there.

Yossarin wrote:

Odd. I've been to Bendir Dale a hundred times and never been PvP'd there. In fact, the natives wave and say hello, and I'm not a hin nor have I ever played one!

It happens. Alot. If you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it's there. (That should be a halfling/rogue mantra, by the way)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm in agreement with much of what Chef has brought up. I've seen it. I've whitnessed it. I've experienced it. I haven't in the past few months, though, but that's only because I've been out of action.

Sometimes the solution to these issues is just state of mind. Others is just taking a break. Others is being pro-active. I haven't been nvery pro-active, but I'm convinced it will suit your needs, Chef.

In other words, just be there. Play your little heart out. And most importantly have fun. If there's something stopping your fun, look for it elsewhere in game! Amia (and islands) is HUGE!

IMO the Dale has gone from Hobbiton (old Bendir before redesign) to Sparta (new Bendir complete with 10 ft walls) *kicks into bottomless pit*

I dont think Bella has PvP'ed anyone in or near the Dale in ages... then again I am not much of a PvP'er in the first place.

There should be a good set of letter for someone who just likes to have rp and fun... suggestions anyone? *in an attempt to lighten the mood*

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Reading over this the first thing that comes to mind is the following:

Deal with it IC.

This honestly sounds likes complaining about legit IC actions, and would be best handeled by having your character take IC actions to resolve it.

If what the OP is describing is true, it's not legit IC actions by any means.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

I've never had any issues with you so don't take this the wrong way, but I think that you just delivered a low blow right here. You called out a generalized group as "ruining Hin RP". That's pretty uncalled for, especially when what you're describing can be perfectly reasonable (save for the killing of the AFK guy), ICly. ICly, Bendir Dale Hin have every reason to be angry and bitter if they like. Less we forget how people used to come in to the town and start trouble with the Hin in town; arguing, insulting, illegal summons, weapons out and being aggressive, lots of PvP, etc. These Hin kinda have reason to be aggressive and on edge if they want to. What's IC is IC, leave it there.

The hins have to abide by the PvP rules just as much as everyone else.

And... no... having a weapon unsheathed is not a good enough reason to PvP. Nor is "we're generally edgy" a good enough reason to randomly PvP at your preferences.

Just saying.

Mr Mago wrote:

And... no... having a weapon unsheathed is not a good enough reason to PvP.

Yes, it is. In Bendir Dale, refusing to sheath your weapon is accepting terms for PvP. It's no different from Darthion telling people to pike off or die. Killing someone AFK is quite nasty though.

I dunno, that would depend on the weapon and circumstance, I guess. There are NPCs there, you know. They would surely interfere with overreacting. But as has been said above: JPG or it didn't happen. Or, you know, just an appropriate report from the appropriate people.

Bendir Dale has a 'Weapons Away' law, which is understandable due to all the conflict that has happened there. If someone breaks that law & the militia is around they will inform the person to put the weapon/s away. If they do not then they deserve pretty much any action the milita takes.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

And... no... having a weapon unsheathed is not a good enough reason to PvP.

Yes, it is. In Bendir Dale, refusing to sheath your weapon is accepting terms for PvP. It's no different from Darthion telling people to pike off or die. Killing someone AFK is quite nasty though.

In which case, it would be perfectly reasonable for the Banites to kill -anyone- for not being a Banite, and for that reason only. Because that's what Banites do.

So.... no. Having an unsheathed weapon is not reason enough to PK someone. And if anyone tried to pull that on me in-game, I'll flame up their ass to the point where sunlight no longer would be needed.

The Guards may ask you to sheath your weapon and by refusing the local authorities you will be required to leave, then if you still don't obey and such, you may cause PvP or enforced banishment by the use of intimidation and other skills.

Of course it would generate RP and not necessarily PvP unless you make the guard to do so.

Mr Mago wrote:

In which case, it would be perfectly reasonable for the Banites to kill -anyone- for not being a Banite, and for that reason only. Because that's what Banites do.

No that's CE. Bane in Amia is LE, is it not?
Since when did the church become a bunch of slaughtering marauders?

Since, forever.

Try reading the Lore topic in the Banite forum. You have access.

Delarwyn wrote:

The Guards may ask you to sheath your weapon and by refusing the local authorities you will be required to leave, then if you still don't obey and such, you may cause PvP or enforced banishment by the use of intimidation and other skills.

Of course it would generate RP and not necessarily PvP unless you make the guard to do so.

At this point it's not the fact the weapon that is out that has made the PvP but the fact that they have refused the law. Something that, unless they are there with a planned purpose to cause harm, a banite wouldn't do. Followers of banite respect the laws of the land they stand on for the moment till the church rules that Law void in His name (AKA declares war on said city/state).

Also as a side note if it's a posted law not to have your weapon up in a town but there's only NPCs around then you are metaing them.

I'll note that there's some amount of scrolling required to get through the bendir laws. They're also somewhat 'wordy'.

The Banite faith includes both Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil.

There is nothing in the dogma that states that followers of Bane must abide by local laws. In fact, any Banite would shun at the laws set by Tormites, Cyricists, Helmites, Lathandrites, etc.

Church of Bane, as a faction, has commonly abided by local laws due to the majority of those in the faction being Lawful Evil, and their personal stance has been of that Lawful nature that they would abide by local laws.

Lawful Evil by itself is unlike Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good, in that the lawful aspect doesn't have to apply to being Lawful in all aspects of values and actions, but to a set agenda and personal value which the Lawful Evil character would have.

Lawful Evil, in the case of a Banite, would be to be lawful in regards to the faith and within the hiearchy of the following/Church. It doesn't mean that a Banite would have to be lawful in regards to the laws of Bendir Dale, Cordor, or any other settlement or faction.

Just saying.

LG doesn't have to abide by mans laws either in the case of the LG cleric/paladin. They try to when possible, but they also have a higher law they abide by.

As to the idea that Amia is losing players the only thing I can see that most likely will make me leave in 6 months to a year is that there are just so many high lvl old characters kicking around that are so set into their chracters groove in the world that eventualy people just want to see something different. That's why I jump around servers after a while personaly, it has nothing to do with how hardcore they are, but how much there is I haven't seen before., unless I see rations in my inventory and a descriptin of the eat or die system then I just log off and never come back.

Quote:

IMO the Dale has gone from Hobbiton (old Bendir before redesign) to Sparta (new Bendir complete with 10 ft walls) *kicks into bottomless pit*

Actually the walls are rather short in height and don't even cover the entirety of the town circumference-wise , only the main square, and, on top of that, it's very easy to jump across from the river or lob spells over. Bendir Dale would really need to have more IC security IMO, both because they are surrounded by hostiles (orcs, trolls, mylocks, etc. not to mention lunatic "adventurers") and because, as is my understanding, it is primarily a strongheart town NPC-wise and they are rather militant as a race about defending their settlements.

I think you're suffering from a touch of nostalgia here, mate, but if you're saying the halfling community could use more cohesiveness I agree, which is why I did things like story-telling, writing up the book on hin lore, the adventurer's fund, calling town meetings, etc. and other primarily social things which don't have anything to do with physicality or fighting in any way. People seemed to like that and, thankfully, I didn't hear any crap about it turning the Dale into a social server either, although, if we did do a lot more of that I have no doubt people would go from complaining about how supposedly harsh it is there to how it's turned into HinSims. :lol:

The way I remember Bendir in the good old days, it was a fortress and two bunkers in the middle of monster territory.

I remember when the Flag hung out there

Randy had some secret society thing going on in the basements, too. It wasn't exactly the pictoresque hobbiton it's made out to be.

You know, I am on the fence about the whole "weapon's away" thing.

The main reason I'm on the fence about it, is that there is no rp involved. I've been the "victim" of this law (Not to the point of pvp, mind you, but pretty dang close), and the extent of the rp was "Weapon away." "Weapon away or you die".

Pretty much in those words.

Yeah, it was great fun. The big kicker was, that I'm very much a "weapon's away" person even when I'm outside a towns actual boundaries. But I rp these things. In this instance, the weapon was a trident, which is rather long.

"Sheathed" for a long spear-like weapon (or a spear, actually) would be exactly how I had it - in my hand, leaned up over my shoulder.

I would go more into detail, but that'd be going too far into "specific incidents" than I already have.

My point in posting this is, there was nothing *technically* against the rules. Technically. So what's to report? If there'd been anything technically in violation of rules, I'd have chatted up someone right quick, with screenies. BUT, if I was a new player, I'd likely have quit the server right then and there. The behaviour was not "legit and IC, to be dealt with IC" (Which I tried, incidentally). It was perhaps with an IC reason in it's origin, but the IC and/or RP with me was, frankly, pathetic.

If I'm wrong, and the DM's think that this is a reportable type thing, you need only let me know wand I can go into more detail over msn/pm's. But you'd have better luck simply hanging out in Bendir and watching, as this is pretty common behaviour, which I've seen almost every time I've been there on my various alternate logins and characters.

Amia is not so friendly a place these days. Maybe *that* is why we're losing people, as opposed to this nonsense about not being hardcore, when not being hardcore is precisely what made us as successful as we are.

SephiraAndy wrote:

No. IC politics mostly. But OOC stuff has also been a nissue for the past year or so. Maybe more.

There is a lot of things that bother me about Bendir Dale changes over the years. Change happens, whether to one's own liking or not.

I've let it be known on numerous occasions that I've not been happy playing in Bendir Dale more than the times I've loved playing there.

You're not alone either. We've talked about things before and we agree on a number of things. But Amia is Amia. It's the land of the freaks, the outcasts. Because of that, I kinda shrug and don't let the Hin lore ignorant things that happen bother me. What for? It's not worth it anyway. I'm here to have fun, like most others. So screw it. They can RP Hin as they like, I'm not RP police. I don't have that right.

In any case, even though those are OOC feelings, they're not hostile or damning, etc. The original message in this subject is pretty hostile toward someone or someones. That's what's not cool. Civil discussions about OOC stuff is fine, but it becomes not okay when defamation is involved. Especially when it's done without proof. That's why I think Chef was out of line here. Nothing against him as a person or anything. Chef and I have always got along just fine and this isn't changing that on my part. I'm just checking him like I'd expect anyone else to check me when I'm out of line.

SephiraAndy wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Odd. I've been to Bendir Dale a hundred times and never been PvP'd there. In fact, the natives wave and say hello, and I'm not a hin nor have I ever played one!

It happens. Alot. If you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it's there. (That should be a halfling/rogue mantra, by the way)

To be fair, people coming in to the Dale and picking on Hin, starting fights and breaking laws and refusing to leave happens all the time too. All I'm saying is, you can't pin the tail on the Hin players just because they're involved in PvP.

It's no secret that I was probably one of the Hin players who PvPed the most back when I frequented the Dale a lot (I don't frequent it nearly as much anymore for IC reasons entirely). But I always did things in within rules while staying true to my characters way of being. It may seem to some that I'm "PvP happy", but it's not true. I pretty much never PvP with any of my characters, besides Willow. Willow has a lot of enemies, so has to do what she has to do (which for her it means kick some face in if she has to). Not to mention, she has a short temper a lot of times.

Mr Mago wrote:

The hins have to abide by the PvP rules just as much as everyone else.

And... no... having a weapon unsheathed is not a good enough reason to PvP. Nor is "we're generally edgy" a good enough reason to randomly PvP at your preferences.

Just saying.

Actually, yes it is. You're making it out to seem like if you have a weapon, we'll clobber the living shit out of you. That's not the case. At least it wasn't when I had a militia Hin. You don't put it away, you get asked to leave, you don't leave, we make you leave, if you fight when we make you leave, we clobber your face. Perfectly reasonable, with in rules and fair.

"We're generally edgy" doesn't give give anyone the right to just PvP right off the bat. I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth. RP and an out is always required and I always gave people outs when I was militia and so did everyone else, that I saw anyway. The "we're generally edgy" bit is only to explain the fact that if you push Hin far enough and forfeit your out, you -will- get stomped on. Hin aren't afraid to step up to you as much as they were in the past. We fight back like everyone else. That's perfectly reasonable.

IronAngel wrote:

Randy had some secret society thing going on in the basements, too. It wasn't exactly the pictoresque hobbiton it's made out to be.

Indeed.

Cori wrote:

In this instance, the weapon was a trident, which is rather long.

"Sheathed" for a long spear-like weapon (or a spear, actually) would be exactly how I had it - in my hand, leaned up over my shoulder.

Heh, yeah. When someone tells Joon to put away his quarterstaff, I politely inquire if they have a better suggestion as to a location than up his ass. Well, he's too timid to put it quite so bluntly, but that's the idea.

IronAngel wrote:

Cori wrote:

In this instance, the weapon was a trident, which is rather long.

"Sheathed" for a long spear-like weapon (or a spear, actually) would be exactly how I had it - in my hand, leaned up over my shoulder.

Heh, yeah. When someone tells Joon to put away his quarterstaff, I politely inquire if they have a better suggestion as to a location than up his ass. Well, he's too timid to put it quite so bluntly, but that's the idea.

To be fair, we didn't make people put staffs away when I was militia. I'm pretty sure they still don't. And if you had a large weapon, we RPly asked that you leave it with the militia standing outside of the gate. Perhaps that isn't common practice anymore, I wouldn't know.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

To be fair, we didn't make people put staffs away when I was militia. I'm pretty sure they still don't. And if you had a large weapon, we RPly asked that you leave it with the militia standing outside of the gate. Perhaps that isn't common practice anymore, I wouldn't know.

It is.

That's the kind of stuff that makes me go "yawn, boring and mildly annoying," to be honest. I'd rather people focused on advancing a story than on irrelevant details that are bound to irritate. The same in Ultrinnan with their helmet rule. But that's my taste, and I'm not renowned for my patience. I doubt it's any factor in Amia's popularity.

PKing people over unsheathed weapons is flat out stupid.

It's on par with PKing characters because of their alignment. Or purely because of their race.

"My dwarf hates orcs, for this reason I'm now allowed to state: 'Stop being orc, or go elsewhere. If you don't go elsewhere, I will kill you.' and then PK them."

PvP should be the last resort of RP. Not the first. And that's coming from someone who's been indirectly forced to PvP more than most.

Just because you write it out as a law, doesn't make it an OOCly justifiable reason to force people into PvP.

Wielding a weapon is not a threat per say. Everyone wields a weapon on Amia... since... they're adventurers >.<

Are you going to add a law that says "No buffs allowed in Bendir Dale" as well?

And what comes after that? "No HiPSing in Bendir Dale, for that can be used to attack people."

As I said earlier; Should anyone ever try to justify PKing my character because he hasn't sheathed his weapon, I'll flame him/her into a sparkling Christmas tree. Because that shit just won't fly with me.

Begging pardon, but whether a person is armed or unarmed, helmed or helmetless in a city environment is something of a major detail.

We believe we are now losing more players to hardcore server

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