AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - ... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

Dev Disco wrote:

I want to put my weight on this and have most of it done and testable before X-mas (actually, before the 22nd). Considering the lack of opposition so far I doubt I'll even poll tomorrow so I can move on right away.

Actually, I could poll for 50 vs 100 MB. That's a lot more efficient.

50 now, maybe upgrade to 100 later. I'd love clothes, though

Also, the one with water above your head looks very dodgy without shiny water.

Last edited by Dev Disco on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 15:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.

You'll get cloaks and clothes (if I am able to extract them) if I get 100 MB.

I'll have a look at the waterline stuff.

Honestly I'm using a wireless UMTS model. (The infamous kpn dongel for all you dutch people) It sucks but it's the best I can get. I have when download at most a speed of 10kbps, yet it hasn't prevented me from downloading the portrait pack and won't stop me from downloading a 100MB hak file. Oddly enough Amia runs decently with the darn thing...

Dev Disco wrote:

I wouldn't mind to add a selection of those in that case.

I think clothing and other stuff to improve character appearance was a major request if any new system were to be instigated if I recall correctly form the old thread.

Last edited by Dev Disco on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 15:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

hadeismetirion wrote:

Honestly I'm using a wireless UMTS model. (The infamous kpn dongel for all you dutch people) It sucks but it's the best I can get. I have when download at most a speed of 10kbps, yet it hasn't prevented me from downloading the portrait pack and won't stop me from downloading a 100MB hak file. Oddly enough Amia runs decently with the darn thing...

Where do you live?

hadeismetirion wrote:

Honestly I'm using a wireless UMTS model. (The infamous kpn dongel for all you dutch people) It sucks but it's the best I can get. I have when download at most a speed of 10kbps, yet it hasn't prevented me from downloading the portrait pack and won't stop me from downloading a 100MB hak file. Oddly enough Amia runs decently with the darn thing...

NWN runs fine on dial up, so it should stay alive.

Yurell wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I wouldn't mind to add a selection of those in that case.

I think clothing and other stuff to improve character appearance was a major request if any new system were to be instigated if I recall correctly form the old thread.

They are also arse to extract from CEP and there is basically nothing available outside CEP that you can merge with 1.69. It's not that I don't want to, it's hard to do.

Dev Disco wrote:

Where do you live?

I live in a student appartment in Schoonhoven, about 15km south of Gouda. My landlord doesn't provide me with internet and I don't have my own phone line, tv line or zipcode so this is the only means for me. I am moving this weekeind though and should then have 20mbps ADSL internet.

Used to study gold smithing here (jewellery making) but well had to quit for reasons... I am taking it up again next school year!

Dev Disco wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I wouldn't mind to add a selection of those in that case.

I think clothing and other stuff to improve character appearance was a major request if any new system were to be instigated if I recall correctly form the old thread.

They are also arse to extract from CEP and there is basically nothing available outside CEP that you can merge with 1.69. It's not that I don't want to, it's hard to do.

I hear you there, and the parts that just happen to not be as hard, are as boring as hell.

Oh oh! Yay! I want them Haks! And for the love of all that is holy, if within the range f possibilities, please do include the HOOD model in the HELMET appearence selection. I want that one piece of appearence so bad that you have no idea.

For + coolness, the fur shin, feet, bicep, forearm and gloves are awesome too.

Everything looks groovy except maybe a couple of the helmet packs.

On an unrelated note, have you looked at these?

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Mo ... ail&id=340

Go for it, though I'd vote to keep it 50mb for the time being. If a new player comes along and wants to give Amia a blast 100mb might be a bit too big for them to commit to without having given it a test.
Plus also for the people on icky connections. Though I now have a savage phat pipe, I remember hak packs for other servers back on 56k dialup being something of an big irritation if they were over 50mb.

Oh, and I wanna be able to have a nice suit. Can't be a juice merchant without a suit

.

Yes, I totally support the addition of HAKs.

Specially when looking at the selection you made, Disco. Dunno why I would be expecting anything else, but the selection you've suggested is overall exceedingly good and very appropriate.

With one exception;

hadeismetirion wrote:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=5061
Absolutely horrible, badly made by someone obviously new to modding suc things. I belief they'll stick out as an eye sore. Just like those over sized reflective helmets you can choose as heads at character creation.

I agree with hadeis about those helmets. They look weird.

One thing I would personally like to request with the addition of HAKs, is for the character appearance customization options to be expanded.

The CEP made use of awesome robes (I'm still not clear if they're actually included here) as well as cloaks, helmets, armor parts.

The CEP shields suck. And your selection for weapons/shields is much better.

I also think its wise to start off small with a ~50 mb HAK size, to potentially add onto it to a limit of 100 mb eventually.

There are plenty of truly awesome tilesets and creature modules out there, that could be added onto this.

The treetop building-thingie-tileset totally made me want to make a treehugger as well ^.^

In regards to cloaks, PLEASE.... PLEASE add the following deity cloaks:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7055

It totally sucks that followers of Velsharoon have to run around with the Cyric cloak at, and that the Banites have to run around with the Helmite cloak >.<

Those cloaks are absolutely fantastic, and would truly enhance the IC atmosphere in my opinion.

Two other very nice cloak HAKs:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6893

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7389

Helmets:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=4010

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=5202

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=5533

Armor + Helmets (this one is truly awesome):

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=4442

Armor:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7423

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6908

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7425

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=3725

Armor + Weapons:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6493

Robes:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... ail&id=501

All of the above stuff is... truly awesome.

Take a look at it, and drool.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I vote for 100MB, if the extra room means we can have the Deity Cloaks.... :idea:

Yes, yes, yes!

Mr Mago wrote:

In regards to cloaks, PLEASE.... PLEASE add the following deity cloaks:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7055

It totally sucks that followers of Velsharoon have to run around with the Cyric cloak at, and that the Banites have to run around with the Helmite cloak >.<

Those cloaks are absolutely fantastic, and would truly enhance the IC atmosphere in my opinion.

Those were what I was getting at Mago. I PMed that to Disco before, and was told they were too big (~20MB). But they are my absolute #1 choice of things to go in a Hak. If it takes a 100mb download to get these in, so be it!

All of the links I gave are truly worth looking into.

I mean... some of that stuff is just far too good not to include.

But I suppose it comes down to if 100 mb would be deemed acceptable.

A lot of people have little concerns with downloading the 1 GB CEP. I know that there are those on slow connections that dread that, but still... 100 mb is one third the size of the Windows Updates I download 2 days ago.

Well, expanding on my point:

1. I'd rather have it 100mb so we don't have to install more in the future, I suck when it comes to HAKs and doing it in one is less hassle for -me- (however I know for Yurell and others 100mb is a hassle).

2. On relation to my sucking at HAKs, could a tutorial be posted up about what to do with the installiation?

3. If I remember correctly (but I doubt it is) if you install a HAK and have it active, you can't play servers/games that don't use HAKs at all? So I'm assuming you'll release the HAK pack before/during/after you change the server to it?

I probs have more questions... but I'm knackered.

YES PLEASE

never had a problem with using haks, i just think this will help bring more life to amia throu new tile sets/monster appearances and equipment

Haven't looked at the material Disco's posted yet, but I have d/l'd haks for other servers. Mind you, it took me 2 years of playing NWN before I was comfortable doing so, and would never have joined Amia if I'd had to install a hak, but we've been over this ground before.

CEP at ~1GB is a biatch to d/l. By all means, keep it as small as you reasonably can. I think 50 MB is a decent goal to aim for and 100 MB is a good max.

I will look at the actual stuff later.

Last edited by Dev Disco on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 15:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Mr Mago wrote:

I did see all of these and the CODI mail/plate coats are in. The short chicklet armour as well, I think. The rest either didn't impress me much or they are way too big (the fable stuff is really nice... but look at those sizes. 8 MB for 4 suits of armour). The greek stuff I didn't see, but ... well, does it really fit the setting?

Yaster Galer wrote:

3. If I remember correctly (but I doubt it is) if you install a HAK and have it active, you can't play servers/games that don't use HAKs at all? So I'm assuming you'll release the HAK pack before/during/after you change the server to it?

The HAK only applies to the server which requires it.

You can have several HAKs in place at the same time, for different servers.

The HAKs themselves won't keep you from playing on servers that don't require any HAKs.

3. If I remember correctly (but I doubt it is) if you install a HAK and have it active, you can't play servers/games that don't use HAKs at all? So I'm assuming you'll release the HAK pack before/during/after you change the server to it?

Wrong. The haks in your folder has no effect on other servers. I got tons of haks in my folder, and can still play Amia

Is it possible to add hoods? Real hoods would be awesome.

*sighs*

Well have to say you got excelent taste Mago. I wouldn't be sorry to see any of those in the HAK.

And now that Terra brngs it up. Might be worth to have a look if we could kill another often re-appearing discussion. Players wanting to have a hood instead of a helmet as in being able to craft a helm that looks like a hood... If ever it's going to be done, might as well be now with the HAK.
Hope I didn't open a whole new can of worms now. If so sorry in advange.

Dev Disco wrote:

I did see all of these and the CODI mail/plate coats are in. The short chicklet armour as well, I think. The rest either didn't impress me much or they are way too big (the fable stuff is really nice... but look at those sizes. 8 MB for 4 suits of armour). The greek stuff I didn't see, but ... well, does it really fit the setting?

Yeah, the Faber stuff is probably the best looking out there, which is also the contributor to its file size (higher poly count, higher resolution on the textures). But damn... does it look good.

I'd still consider the cloaks worth having (1 mb and 1.7 mb) for those extra cloaks. Well worth it.

The deity cloaks are awesome for RP as well, although it weighs in at 20+ mb.

Awesome that the CODI robe pack is in. Because it's high quality, and fills out gabs which are currently missing.

Ketaros Helmets Pack is less than 1 mb, and offers 18 new helmets which don't look ridiculous, yet offer alternatives to the current Bioware helmets.

I'd say it's worth it, if the HAK limit goes to 100 mb.

The Shadowhawk helmets could probably be tossed out, together with the Balders Dark Age Female.

The greek is still too good, in my opinion, not to be included. I mean... just look at it >.<

Celestial armor is 67 kb. It's a nice armor, which barely takes up any size at all. Well worth including also.

Sames goes for the infernal armor, which is 190 kb.

DLA Lisa might be excessive. Since it weighs in at 2.4 mb for two armors.

The short chicklet armor is this?

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=3725

It's very nice, at 600 kb.

All in all, I'd suggest the following then, should the limit be increased to 100 mb;

Cloaks:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6893

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7389

Helmets:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=5202

Armor + Helmets (this one is truly awesome):

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=4442

Armor:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7423

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=7425

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=3725

Armor + Weapons:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=6493

With the Fable being a bit iffy... but man, it looks so good

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I wouldn't mind to add a selection of those in that case.

I think clothing and other stuff to improve character appearance was a major request if any new system were to be instigated if I recall correctly form the old thread.

They are also arse to extract from CEP and there is basically nothing available outside CEP that you can merge with 1.69. It's not that I don't want to, it's hard to do.

I hear you there, and the parts that just happen to not be as hard, are as boring as hell.

Did I hear the word 'volunteer'?

I'm daunted by the fear of this becoming a mad rush of "lets pile in all the crap to Amia we can and required downloads if you want to play because 1 to 3 people like'd this HAK a whole crapton."

If Disco picked it? That's the chicken I trust to detemine if the file sizes are resonable and add something of actual value to the gameplay.

I'm more favoring Tilesets and Placeables than more gear designs. Things the build up a greater environment variety. We can leave further distinguishing PC's apart as step 2 for what to add. Goodness knows there is no such thing as a twin unless people are doing it on purpose. We already have a crapton of choices + imagination.

We still have imagination, right?

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Ha ... il&id=1888

That HAK-pack has the hooded helmet in it.

Suppose you'd just have to extract it, since the other "masks" kind of look like shit.

I dare say that hood is vital. Must have it, precious!

If it wasn't for the fact that balance issues, exploits and bugs come with it, I'd be so happy to get new classes, like real spellswords or necromancers.

Sorry Disco, but I did not look at all your links before I commented. I was actually not implying that I won't like the haks, just that new people will most likely not try out Amia if there are downloadable requirements.

I do want more helmet options. I think that in itself would go pretty far. I still haven't looked at your links, and probably will not do so because it either is, or is not going to matter. When it does, I will just download and see it all for myself when it's all there.

I must really sound like an ass to all of you DMs for some reason.

Is it possible to add null helmet and cloak models with HAKs? That would be a welcome change.

I'm good with this. The only issue is about new people joining, but then again Amia isn't likely to get any significant number of newcomers unless the older players begin indoctrinating their spawn with Amia.
Or you force your friends to play.

Either way, HAKs doesn't seem to be that much of a barrier what with Neverwinter Nights becoming an old dinosaur.
Though if a player tries to join Amia without the needed HAKs, is it possible to show a message to tell them where to get it?

Dev Disco wrote:

I knew you'd love it. By the way, how's your Tom of Finland fetish these days?

Vaguely scary now to be a finnish person named Tomi... Thanks for that image!

That aside, most of those HAKs look pretty darn cool, I like 'em.

IronAngel wrote:

Is it possible to add null helmet and cloak models with HAKs? That would be a welcome change.

Yes.

If this is implemented, and the forest gets the suspended city look...

I demand that Ewoks be made a playable subrace.

Genar_Detkasa wrote:

I'm good with this. The only issue is about new people joining, but then again Amia isn't likely to get any significant number of newcomers unless the older players begin indoctrinating their spawn with Amia.
Or you force your friends to play.

Either way, HAKs doesn't seem to be that much of a barrier what with Neverwinter Nights becoming an old dinosaur.
Though if a player tries to join Amia without the needed HAKs, is it possible to show a message to tell them where to get it?

You can include "HAKs" and the link to the website in the server name, as well as include it in the description of the server, to make it easy for new players to figure out where to get the HAKs.

Yurell wrote:

Metalien_XC wrote:

I have a hand override that gives fat models proper hands and pale master hands have fingers, would something like that be added to the HAK Pack?

Give!

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtop ... t=override

Please woulda been nice, but here ya go.

Pack includes Pale Master Bone Hand override and proper hands for fat models, smaller models have the same hands the Amia pack gives out.

Last edited by Dwagin on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 16:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

If we go HAK I will not cease playing.

If you go trying to do anything to my spell icons except colourize them, I will become enraged. Like facial ticks and everything.

The part of me that likes playing dressup wouldn't mind new clothes.

Also we'd have to add the new stuff to the in game crafting system to facilitate that need.

Now.. My major caveat against haks has always been two-fold, and never an issue for me personally:

1. We might lose foot-traffic if we have Haks and population may dwindle.

2. I love Amia, really do. But we've always had our standard of.. 'Awesome stuff without haks'. As soon as you start adding those, we lose that distinction, and instantaneously, things that can't be done because of haks spontaneously 'Can', and then you rip the scabs off old wounds and holy gods is it not going to be pretty.

Suggestions IF we do go hak:

1. Listing the things as was already covered
2. Hak Installer Executeable, and stand alone hak.
3. Clear Concise Directions on how to install it on the link page in the languages: English / Spanish / Portuguese / Russian / French. That'd cover over 1bn people Most of Europe / Russia / North and South America and Aussieland.

When will this be implemented?

I love HAKs as long as they don't start pushing 150+ MB. There's really no need for that much custom content imo.

And especially if new things aren't added to the HakPak every other week either. It's so annoying having to download files for 2 hours every week to play on your favorite server.

Definitely pro-HAKs here. It was a different story a few years ago, when NWN was still getting substantial updates from BioWare and NWN2 hadn't hit the shelves yet. But the game is really starting to show its age now. If we start adding HAKs we can add all kinds of awesome stuff, although I hope it isn't just limited to pretty looking armour and tilesets. I wanna see new prestige classes and other cool stuff. (I'm aware of the balance issues that would follow, but it'd be fun)

But beware, we all know that once you go HAK, you can't go back.

I'd really want a 'One time, and we're done.' Type hak.

I wouldn't start touching prestige classes, even though they can be awesome.

Dwagin wrote:

I'd really want a 'One time, and we're done.' Type hak.

I have to say that I'm glad to see the presented Haks.
HAKs are in my opinion not needed, but some extra's now and then give the game a new polish and the server a welcome veneer.

I can see half the server running aorund in that Celestial Armours.

Last edited by Pony on Wed, Dec 16 2009, 17:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I am all for it. I do have a few personal suggestions I would like to get my hands on as a player and a designer.

Must haves: (Really, without getting new clothing and finally being able to for instance hold a violin with my character or a book, I dont see a hakpak is done.)
- New clothing, such as dresses, skirts, robes, suits and hats.
- Holdable items, such as instruments, books, candles and holy symbols.
- A proper manor.

Would be really really neat: (more for designing, not drastically needed even if it would be neat.)
- New PlCs, such as pianos, new carpets, new chairs.

Mr Mago wrote:

I wouldn't start touching prestige classes, even though they can be awesome.

It would be awesome. I would love to have more options.

The balance thing may be an issue, but those can be faxied...right?

So, I'll have to download poo to play Amia? Sounds... troublesome.

... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

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