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soundofastream wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

What then do you suggest? Just escaping that one screen is just as silly. "Oh, i'm only a couple feet from you now, but you can't chase me anymore because I've escaped."

There isn't a perfect balance to the issue here. Connection speeds and processor speeds play a part in everything in a online game. You can't make rules based on that, it's too much of a variable from place to place and day to day.

On all other servers I've been on there's been a two screens chase rule. That is, if they've transited two screen from the initial pvp, they've escaped and you must let them go.

Other server =/= Amia. That rule does not exist here. There is always a clear indicator when the current scene has "ended".

TormakSaber wrote:

Other server =/= Amia. That rule does not exist here. There is always a clear indicator when the current scene has "ended".

Amen

gorgometh wrote:

Sweetdreamz wrote:

Figured this may be related to the topic.

No specific examples, but say:

I'm fighting two people with my mage, I kill one of them off, they run into a area transition, rest, fully buff themselves, all of that and then switch areas again and run back into battle.. But, for those who just say "Run and follow, then beat him." The area happened to be a non pvp zone. What's the status/regulations for these specific incidents?

This just sounds like someone meta-gaming the situation and abusing the system. Is there really anything that can be done about something like this? It seems to me like you either follow them to the non-pvp area and wait it out, or you ske-daddle it out of there while they are gone, or you just stick around and pray for the best.

Either way, it would seem like you just have to roll with what you are handed, whether you are content with what transpires or not. Just my opinion.

Sounds like a good way to get away. I treat no-PVP areas as places where the local authorities would kick your arse to high hells if you tried anything, but as soon as you step beyond their jurisdiction they don't give a damn.

soundofastream wrote:

hendrack wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

I followed a char from Khem through the portal to Bugbear caves on A, port to Cordor, port to something I don't remember, and then port to Quagmires where I got him, PvPed and dragged the char back to Khem. Persistence pays.

On another occassion, it took one of my chars to time stop a couple times while running away through several screens to port safely. Mind with TS you can kill another char easily, but that wasn't the point in that encounter.

If you can't escape the follower, well, you don't escape.

Well that's just silly, some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

Ten years ago I played a Quake2 mod online, most had ISDN or cable while I had my silly 56k modem and double ping. I died a lot, tough luck. At some point skill compensated my shitty ping.

Seriously, if someone chases you over five screens, maybe you should make a stand if you can't get away?

hendrack wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

hendrack wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

I followed a char from Khem through the portal to Bugbear caves on A, port to Cordor, port to something I don't remember, and then port to Quagmires where I got him, PvPed and dragged the char back to Khem. Persistence pays.

On another occassion, it took one of my chars to time stop a couple times while running away through several screens to port safely. Mind with TS you can kill another char easily, but that wasn't the point in that encounter.

If you can't escape the follower, well, you don't escape.

Well that's just silly, some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

Ten years ago I played a Quake2 mod online, most had ISDN or cable while I had my silly 56k modem and double ping. I died a lot, tough luck. At some point skill compensated my (censored) ping.

Seriously, if someone chases you over five screens, maybe you should make a stand if you can't get away?

Nope. Its a case of their OOC ego getting in the way of normal pvp, its called....griefing. I even remember this discussion a while ago, very similar and in the case of the question, I were doing the chasing...and wanted clarification on what might be acceptable on giving a chase. I believe it were Won Won who frowned upon it and said, we shouldn't be chasing them across half of Amia Isle, its clearly obvious the PvP should of been over and that it were moving from PvP to griefing. At least, that's my recollection of the previous discussion. But, like most things PvP, seems people have forgotten the old forum discussions on it?

My stance has never changed. You get away when you get away. Loading happens to factor into that. Understand your limitations and combat accordingly.

I t should be up to the players themselves to control themselves, why must you have this urge to always win by killing the other player, if they run to escape then you have won the battle and there is nothing wrong with letting them escape. If anyone has to chase someone 4 or 5 screens to kill them then look at yourselves and your own must win at all cost attitude.

Remember this, conflicts do not have to go into PvP, PvP doesn’t have to end in death and when it ends in death doesn’t have to be something to brag and taunt about or even get upset about. The win at all cost attitudes as well as the win a PvP fight as fast as possible tends to stop the RP of such things dead in its tracks, at least RP between the two. If someone in the middle of PvP gives up then why not let them? You have won at that point and can RP winning even with the loser, cant do that while he is dead.

Its not the Dms responsibility to control this, its ours, the players who need to control ourselves.

Um, it can be IC, you know. Letting someone escape can be tantamount to losing. Them living can be the victory they desire and escape their methodology, for one of a billion reasons.

TormakSaber wrote:

Um, it can be IC, you know. Letting someone escape can be tantamount to losing. Them living can be the victory they desire and escape their methodology, for one of a billion reasons.

Exactly what I was trying to express to Sound with my character's example. I wasn't saying they'd chase forever in all cases, regardless of circumstances. I said when the RP called for it, one of my characters might, and it's not because I'm trying to be some (censored) OoC. A machiavellian or an utter zealot would be expected to do such. Me continuing to chase another PC once they've engaged in combat is no more me trying to be a glory hog or some must-win sadsack OoC than it is for a paladin to demand someone to unsummon undead or "face the consequences". It's true to character.

This particular PC's dogma just doesn't allow him to get attacked, then watch the assailant run away, when he fully has the capability to "end" it right there. It's just once you start/challenge, you better be sure you can end it with this one, or are least make sure he can't see you running away. Nothing personal about it.

I was thinking more "Some dude is spying on you and he begins to run: You do not simply stop chasing because he crosses an arbitrary line, you chase him down to the ends of the earth."

You know, there is also the reverse situation. Some ass makes comments, you engage them in PvP, he ducks into a transition, and because he has a faster connection, then ducks back through another transistion or the same one, using a mechanical feature to get away.

That's kinda lame.

Ducknig back through the same transition to abuse it is absolutely not the same thing as continuing a chase.

It's the reverse situation though, using connection speeds to influence the outcome of an event. Much like continuing the chase where someone may get away or may catch up faster because they have a faster internet connection.

I feel there is a qualitative difference. One is conscious abuse, the other is inadvertent side effect.

In all the instances where I've legged it, I've never started the pvp to start with btw. Nearly all those circumstances, it has been, either the other guy not following the rules and there's just no time to explain to them whilst they're swinging at you, so you leg it. In nearly every instance, there's been no OUT. That aside (they've broken PvP rules anyway and usually haven't even bothered to mark you hostile), in a few such cases, I've called the rp legit, even if the PvP rules weren't legit and reacted IC, to being instantly attacked (that is, my lowbie flees the scene or whatever). Legging it was IC but then, that's when I thought it was getting a bit silly when they just kept chasing for the smack down, over several zones, when its clearly obvious, they didn't follow the rules to start with.

In most of these cases, its just newbs not knowing the rules well. So I prefer education to reporting them, as chances are, they'll learn from it. However, it just had me thinking about, how far is chasing legit...so thought I better ask. Anyway, its cleared it up. There's no rules on it so it sounds like they can chase (in legit pvp) as far as they want...

If rules are broken in an encounter like no hostiling, no rp, no out etc, I get that you screenshot report and so on. I think you are also able to void the pvp and ignore the scene from happening since rules were broken, yes? If rules were provably broken can I get up and say none of it happens?

Generally, I don't chase after people any more in PvP, unless it's absolutely essential that the character is killed to uphold my own character's RP.

And this is due to the rather uncertain implimentation of the "Get away"-rule.

Moonangel wrote:

If rules are broken in an encounter like no hostiling, no rp, no out etc, I get that you screenshot report and so on. I think you are also able to void the pvp and ignore the scene from happening since rules were broken, yes? If rules were provably broken can I get up and say none of it happens?

HELL NO

You can contact a DM and see if *THEY* will state that the encounter didn't happen. In the meantime, until you are able to contact a DM, *everyone* is better off if you drop the matter in game, and continue RPing, even if you feel that the scenario will be voided later.

You as a player - any of us as players - should endeavour to avoid the OOC crap, regardless of our personal opinion on whether a rule was or was not followed properly. Rule-related decisions are for the DM's to figure out and decide upon. Players doing what you just said is the PRIMARY (from my experience DMing here on Amia) cause of PVP-related OOC whining and arguments, which is generally what prevents PVP from being an enjoyable part of everyones RP and gives it such a bad stigma.

Stop the OOC arguing over rule interpretation, and everyone will be happier.

THIS sort of scenario would be what my siggy refers to, incidentally, for those who like to toss it into other odd-fitting situations.

What he said. Don't void anything on your own, just make the appropriate report and ask DM help.

This has the added benefit that things probably won't seem as terrible and unacceptable after you've calmed down a while.

There are just certain circumstances that a character wouldn't stop chasing someone just because they got a little bit ahead of them. If a baddie stole something important to a goodie, would the goodie stop chasing just because the person got 3 screens ahead? No way! He'd chase that person to the ends of the earth and then some.

I think having no limit on chase length is a good thing.

ainjyll wrote:

There are just certain circumstances that a character wouldn't stop chasing someone just because they got a little bit ahead of them. If a baddie stole something important to a goodie, would the goodie stop chasing just because the person got 3 screens ahead? No way! He'd chase that person to the ends of the earth and then some.

I think having no limit on chase length is a good thing.

I could always be a baddie chasing a goodie too >_>

Alignment roles are the same as Gender roles. Good for a laugh, but sad when taken as absolute. *cough*

On topic: I agree. No limit on chasing is a good thing. We already go so far as to have an "out" before any PvP. As long as that rule is followed on both sides, there is no reason to give you a second "out" just because you/your character then realizes you can't win. Getting away is your own burden at that point.

As they say, don't write a check your ass can't cash.

Clarification of PvP Rules

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