AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

If you come along and there's a fight already in full swing and your guy clearly has a reason to back one or the other do you really have to spent the time typing to /give/ RP reason while the person on your side is owned? Feels like a gray area to me in the rules. More so as a SD cause even if I was a fast enough typer to everyone but the DMs it looks like I just pop into the fight.

Still let's say Darth is in a fight and Kichirou stumbles across it then it hardly makes and sense to stop and give his opponent the "one out".

In the case of coming upon a fight in progress I personally assume that the one out has already been declined and one or the other was planning on not walking away

Your witnessing the fight and jumping in practically IS the RP at that point.

If you see a fight chances are they RP'd already and much like coming upon seeing your friend beat up IRL you can attack and defend immediately.

Tip: It might be a good idea to RP AFTER the fight though if you aid and come out on top.

In case of hostile actions I belive that there is no need for further talk. If you have your friend figthing someone you are either going to wait becouse you know that your friend will win or you will jump in will all your powers, beating the attacker to the death.

What's annoying, however, is when random people jump into the fight who have no reason to jump into the fight.

Happens quite often.

More so. If you're going to jump into a fight, make sure to hostile before you do.

I'd say it's not much different than being in the middle of RPing the "out" when suddenly the other party starts buffing - that is, if they do that, you are allowed to stop the RP chatter and attack.

Fight is going already, no reason why reinforcements cannot arrive and jump in. Anyone can still try and flee if the odds are suddenly against them. There also is the case of the stealthed reinforcements hiding while the other parties chat, suddenly to reveal their presence when teh fighting starts.

Case of IC consequence for IC actions, here.

Mr Mago wrote:

random people jump into the fight who have no reason to jump into the fight.

Then you should randomly hand them their arse and leave it dead for the crows to randomly peck on.

That's usually the response given, yes. But it's still tiring.

Mr Mago wrote:

What's annoying, however, is when random people jump into the fight who have no reason to jump into the fight.

Happens quite often.

More so. If you're going to jump into a fight, make sure to hostile before you do.

In some cases though Mago, oyu may well be dealing with the pesky problem of nearby folks having been ICly alerted.

One of the disadvantages to brute-style combat as opposed to more stealthy picket-fighting. *Trust me: I've played enough stealth requiring games to relate to this problem*

Mr Mago wrote:

What's annoying, however, is when random people jump into the fight who have no reason to jump into the fight.

Happens quite often.

More so. If you're going to jump into a fight, make sure to hostile before you do.

Stop fighting in public areas. Problem solved.

"Configuration of terrain is an aid to the army. Analyzing the enemy, taking control of victory, the distant and near, is the Tao of the superior general. One who knows these and employs them in combat will certainly be victorious. One who does not know these or employ them in combat will certainly be defeated." -Sun Tsu

"If the enemy opens the door, you must race in." -Sun Tsu

Granted, this doesn't necessarily apply to PvP, however the choice of terrain does. When you open up the box of chaos that is battle, you and you alone are resposible for the seen and unforseen that results.

You're telling me that we should get a room?

Mr Mago wrote:

You're telling me that we should get a room?

And do some 'private' 'fighting' <.<

*cough cough*

But yes, why not?

There's nothing wrong with having naked wrestling with your bromance.

*facepalms*

Especially not when Niya can watch :twisted:

Cori wrote:

I'd say it's not much different than being in the middle of RPing the "out" when suddenly the other party starts buffing - that is, if they do that, you are allowed to stop the RP chatter and attack.

Fight is going already, no reason why reinforcements cannot arrive and jump in. Anyone can still try and flee if the odds are suddenly against them. There also is the case of the stealthed reinforcements hiding while the other parties chat, suddenly to reveal their presence when teh fighting starts.

Case of IC consequence for IC actions, here.

Cori and I have seem to have been having a habbit of taking what we were going to say and saying it before the other lately!

Oh well, saves me typing!

I agree with what I think is everyone. Hostile those you intend to thump, jump in and whoop some arse. I would definitely stick around afterward, though.

Mr Mago wrote:

You're telling me that we should get a room?

LOL!

No, just that the expectation of having a private little war on a multiplayer server is a little unrealistic. Though if you do need a room for what you plan to do, perhaps a simple fade to black would suffice. Less chance of random people barging in on you. O.o

Mr Mago wrote:

That's usually the response given, yes. But it's still tiring.

Well, I'm sure you already figure Mago that having such an infamous evil character means that if someone walks across him fighting someone, if they have any inkling as to who he is... they're probably gonna assume it's a "big bad wolf" attacking Little Red Ridding Hood-type situation, right or wrong. :wink:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

That's usually the response given, yes. But it's still tiring.

Well, I'm sure you already figure Mago that having such an infamous evil character means that if someone walks across him fighting someone, if they have any inkling as to who he is... they're probably gonna assume it's a "big bad wolf" attacking Little Red Ridding Hood-type situation, right or wrong. :wink:

And what's best, the fame!

If they succeed in beating Darth, their names will be sang in bard songs and their tale will be told forever, about how they happened to come by into a fight against the biggest baddest guy ever and they won!

It will be especially rewarding if they managed to save everyone else from having their corpses defiled and they were the last man standing!

Alright, I wil stop here. Sorry if I got carried away. >_>;;

If you're jumping into a fight, make sure you hostile everyone you're fighting first, otherwise feel free to join in if it makes sense for your char to do so.

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

There's no hard number. The encounter is over when it's over. I'd think it's pretty obvious when someone "got away."

soundofastream wrote:

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

When you get away, you get away, I suppose. As in, they don't see you anymore.

The characters I've had to have flee a PvP encounter have often not even had to flee a whole screen to "get away." Without using the Hide skill, no less. Cliffs and foliage ftw.

If someone chases you, they just chase you. Til either they give up or you get away or run into help... if you're lucky. I'd fully expect an enraged barbarian or monk with good speed to chase one of my chars down if they could still see them and they tried to run away.

The typical sceen in cop shows comes to mind. Where the perp runs through several houses, backyards, across three roofs, and up and down several stairways, and so on.

If someone is determined to give chase, it will take as long as it takes. Either you lose them or they give up. Sometimes you may have to run all the way back to a major city, them's the breaks.

My monk, upon being ambushed by Cyricists in the Spires, ran from there to the very back of Amia forest to escape from combat.

A big problem Im having is:

Me and my 3 mage friends standing beside me. 5 people walk up, and quickly hostile just me and attack without hostiling the mages hoping that they will kill me before the mages get a chance to kill them. Thats very unfair because the mages would respond immediately but instead they spend a minute either looking for the attacker's names on the list or for their pvp tool in their pokets to hostile the attackers while I gotta hold in there waiting for help and getting bashed. Anyone else having the kind of problem?

They must set everyone to hostile before attacking.

I believe these three are relevant

Quote:

5. You must give the other party clear IC indication of your intentions to attack, and make sure they have reasonable time to react and possibly back down IC.

6. You must set all members of the opposing party to Hostile before performing hostile actions. You can do this with the tool in your inventory or through the player list.

7. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. If you have not set them to Hostile before, you can't blame them for having to act without it. Both parties should strive to set eachother to Hostile after the immediate reaction, however.

I wish I had a wand that I could use on myself that would hostile me to the entire server. *nodnod*

Or everyone in the area thats not in your party..

But thats easy enough on the player list to do. Everyone thats in the party is marked 'party' (obviously) and anyone thats just in the area is marked 'neutral' in blue color. I like to hostile just the neutral people to prevent all the missunderstandings etc. Though there is a problem with that too. As soon as you hostile all the neutral people they all start buffing and assuming youll attack them. If your friends dont hostile them, youre at a big dissadvantage, being the only one hostile to everyone in the area so when you inniciate a hostile action towards one of em, everyone attacks you just because they assume theyre next anyway after that guy falls. And they all rush towards you and we get back to the problem we had in the first place. Im getting bashed while my friends are looking for the people on the list to hostile but the fight is almost always over when everyone can be properly set to hostile

soundofastream wrote:

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

I followed a char from Khem through the portal to Bugbear caves on A, port to Cordor, port to something I don't remember, and then port to Quagmires where I got him, PvPed and dragged the char back to Khem. Persistence pays.

On another occassion, it took one of my chars to time stop a couple times while running away through several screens to port safely. Mind with TS you can kill another char easily, but that wasn't the point in that encounter.

If you can't escape the follower, well, you don't escape.

Riddle wrote:

A big problem Im having is:

Me and my 3 mage friends standing beside me. 5 people walk up, and quickly hostile just me and attack without hostiling the mages hoping that they will kill me before the mages get a chance to kill them. Thats very unfair because the mages would respond immediately but instead they spend a minute either looking for the attacker's names on the list or for their pvp tool in their pokets to hostile the attackers while I gotta hold in there waiting for help and getting bashed. Anyone else having the kind of problem?

That's just like attacking someone in front of an NPC guard, It's called metagamming. In my opinion, the player initiating the PvP bears the responsibility of making sure all the rules for PvP are observed and that everyone initially involved is ready. Additionally, if this has happened more than once, be prepared to get screenies of similar incidents in the future. The DM's can strighten out players bending or breaking rules, but not without evidence of them doing such.

Riddle wrote:

A big problem Im having is:

Me and my 3 mage friends standing beside me. 5 people walk up, and quickly hostile just me and attack without hostiling the mages hoping that they will kill me before the mages get a chance to kill them. Thats very unfair because the mages would respond immediately but instead they spend a minute either looking for the attacker's names on the list or for their pvp tool in their pokets to hostile the attackers while I gotta hold in there waiting for help and getting bashed. Anyone else having the kind of problem?

That's why we, as players, have to give the opposition time to set everyone to hostile before attacking (unless the opposition decides to buff or rest or something, that is). If they haven't done this, screenie and send to a DM so they can have a nice little chat about obeying the rules of PvP.

hendrack wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

Whilst we're at it, how many screens do you need to flee a scene before you can safely say you've got away from the PvP? I've had some people pursue my character across 4 or 5 screens...seems that they might be missing the point?

I followed a char from Khem through the portal to Bugbear caves on A, port to Cordor, port to something I don't remember, and then port to Quagmires where I got him, PvPed and dragged the char back to Khem. Persistence pays.

On another occassion, it took one of my chars to time stop a couple times while running away through several screens to port safely. Mind with TS you can kill another char easily, but that wasn't the point in that encounter.

If you can't escape the follower, well, you don't escape.

Well that's just silly, some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

soundofastream wrote:

some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

What then do you suggest? Just escaping that one screen is just as silly. "Oh, i'm only a couple feet from you now, but you can't chase me anymore because I've escaped."

There isn't a perfect balance to the issue here. Connection speeds and processor speeds play a part in everything in a online game. You can't make rules based on that, it's too much of a variable from place to place and day to day.

Just as IRL some ppl are bigger, some are faster & some are smarter so it is with 'puters & connection speed. Do we lower our standards to the lowest common denominator? No, Amia is not responsible for a persons connection speed or 'puter processing power.

I have an average to fast load time in transitions, just enough that it's noticable when someone witha slow connection is in the party. As a point of consideration is that it's common courtesy to wait and not let the faster connection give an advantage. This is commonly seen in the member of the party who is half-way across the next area before everyone else is through the transition.

Someone who continually uses their faster connection to win PvP is just being lame and unfair. And as such, if it happens to you, you have a legitimate gripe. It's something to discuss after the battle. Most of the time when the adrenalin is flowing, it's hard to think clearly in the heat of the moment. I've had similar situations and after pointing it out the responce was usually, "I didn't even think about that." As long as you don't start accusing the other players of wrongdoing (like I do most of the time) an actual discussion does wonders.

I have learned, much to my cost, that simply being polite and discussing the issue will usually resolve any problems long before a DM is needed.

This may sound hypocritcial but... if I am fleeing I will use every advantage that I can to get away & if that means I load faster so be it. However if I am chasing I will give the 'rabbit' consideration. That make sense? :wink:

I have a crap connexion. I do not, however, complain when I lose PvP because of it. If they catch up to me because it took me thirty seconds to load at the transition, and them five, then I have to live with it. There is nothing lame about it - they shouldn't be forced to use a worse computer or guess whether you came out ahead of them and ran or are behind them.

Figured this may be related to the topic.

No specific examples, but say:

I'm fighting two people with my mage, I kill one of them off, they run into a area transition, rest, fully buff themselves, all of that and then switch areas again and run back into battle.. But, for those who just say "Run and follow, then beat him." The area happened to be a non pvp zone. What's the status/regulations for these specific incidents?

Bravo21 wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

What's annoying, however, is when random people jump into the fight who have no reason to jump into the fight.

Happens quite often.

More so. If you're going to jump into a fight, make sure to hostile before you do.

Stop fighting in public areas. Problem solved.

"Configuration of terrain is an aid to the army. Analyzing the enemy, taking control of victory, the distant and near, is the Tao of the superior general. One who knows these and employs them in combat will certainly be victorious. One who does not know these or employ them in combat will certainly be defeated." -Sun Tsu

"If the enemy opens the door, you must race in." -Sun Tsu

Granted, this doesn't necessarily apply to PvP, however the choice of terrain does. When you open up the box of chaos that is battle, you and you alone are resposible for the seen and unforseen that results.

Your logic fails epically as all area's that are not public are hunting area's, meaning you get spawns interupting instead.

Sweetdreamz wrote:

Figured this may be related to the topic.

No specific examples, but say:

I'm fighting two people with my mage, I kill one of them off, they run into a area transition, rest, fully buff themselves, all of that and then switch areas again and run back into battle.. But, for those who just say "Run and follow, then beat him." The area happened to be a non pvp zone. What's the status/regulations for these specific incidents?

This just sounds like someone meta-gaming the situation and abusing the system. Is there really anything that can be done about something like this? It seems to me like you either follow them to the non-pvp area and wait it out, or you ske-daddle it out of there while they are gone, or you just stick around and pray for the best.

Either way, it would seem like you just have to roll with what you are handed, whether you are content with what transpires or not. Just my opinion.

ainjyll wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

What then do you suggest? Just escaping that one screen is just as silly. "Oh, i'm only a couple feet from you now, but you can't chase me anymore because I've escaped."

There isn't a perfect balance to the issue here. Connection speeds and processor speeds play a part in everything in a online game. You can't make rules based on that, it's too much of a variable from place to place and day to day.

On all other servers I've been on there's been a two screens chase rule. That is, if they've transited two screen from the initial pvp, they've escaped and you must let them go.

soundofastream wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

some people's screens load faster than others, you're rewarding connection speeds here, not IC roleplay.

What then do you suggest? Just escaping that one screen is just as silly. "Oh, i'm only a couple feet from you now, but you can't chase me anymore because I've escaped."

There isn't a perfect balance to the issue here. Connection speeds and processor speeds play a part in everything in a online game. You can't make rules based on that, it's too much of a variable from place to place and day to day.

On all other servers I've been on there's been a two screens chase rule. That is, if they've transited two screen from the initial pvp, they've escaped and you must let them go.

I don't think that should or could ever be informed on Amia. My character will probably chase for as long as it seems possible they'll catch you.

In fairness though, if I'm chasing a character through screens and its a close distance, and I've noticed they're not a HiPSer, in invis, or likely to hide, and I chase them into a screen they're not "into" yet, I'll wait. When they appear and start running, I'll probably give them a distance that was close to what we had before transition. If it's more than a few seconds, it's likely they've just GSed or HiPSed anyway, in which case I wasn't gonna catch them next screen anyway.

It's a curteousy I can afford though, seeing as all but one of my characters have above averange speed and some way to slow a ranged target down. They're only delaying the inevitable. :twisted:

OR, you could just let the PvP end, because, that's really the end of it when they flee anyway...

Despite whether you know, or don't know either party that are engaging in a fight. If hostile actions are established, then pvp from any party is allowed. Unless you've established rules to disallow third parties to get involved, eg. Arena matches, or an honorable dual. In which case, onlookers will assumedly stop the third party.

soundofastream wrote:

OR, you could just let the PvP end, because, that's really the end of it when they flee anyway...

So if someone tries to assassinate my character, and they run a screen away, ICly, my enraged character is supposed to go "Well shucks and darn, they done got away. Welp, I guess I best be turning around now, seeing as it's not like they might be planning a second attack."

What you suggest is not IC. It's an IC attempt at OoC politeness.

It's not like I'm saying I'd chase the character forever and ever amen, regardless of what my character might feel or think. I'm saying I'll chase them if it makes sense to ICly and for as long as the mindset of my character would reason.

I.E. Ardok: Say he's in a fight and they enemy is getting beat handily, but they decide to run off shouting curses into the distance, he'll probably chase a while, and if he doesnt soon catch them, let them go. That's just his demeanor. But either insult [insert deity] or do something that requires him to end your life through dogma, and he'll damn near chase you until his body gives out, even if he doesn't see you.

That's more true to RP than saying "the encounter has ended because they've made the transition through an OoC barrier." You realize transitions are OoC, right? It's not like they cross some magic line and can't see the person on the other side, ICly.

Boy. One question spawns a who thread huh? *chuckles* TBH I've /actively/ used the transitions to escape a few times in my two years playing. One person chasing you, step on the transition with a really fast gaming system. Soon as you load click back and /poof/ you've disappeared to them long enough to get away. :twisted:

Ya I know it's a bit slimy but in my defense I've only used it when I just wasn't in a PvP mood and they wouldn't back down......that and to escape the girlfriend once. :lol:

Scimiter wrote:

Boy. One question spawns a who thread huh? *chuckles* TBH I've /actively/ used the transitions to escape a few times in my two years playing. One person chasing you, step on the transition with a really fast gaming system. Soon as you load click back and /poof/ you've disappeared to them long enough to get away. :twisted:

Ya I know it's a bit slimy but in my defense I've only used it when I just wasn't in a PvP mood and they wouldn't back down......that and to escape the girlfriend once. :lol:

That... actually seems slimy to the point of metagaming, sadly. Transitions are OoC. If they wouldn't give you an out, then that's another story, but just to flee, that's really not completely kosher, IMO.

No...that was the point. Didn't get a out from them IC and tells were ignored. Hence dirty tactics used. Just for context it was also a different server.

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