AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark III

Parry works on one class and one class only.

And you need to combine it with Dev to get full use out of it.

That class is Bard and requires a bare minimum of 25 Levels.

Your looking for 90 in the parry skill. You will need either epic Minstrel of Epic Swordplay gloves.

Quoting myself because I am not sure if this was missed or if people simply, truly has no idea of what to reply:

BlackDahlya wrote:

Are DEX-based builds with Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Ambidex/Imp 2-Weapon or Dual-wield always doomed to fail, even if adding Great Dexterity I/II?

The most AB I can get out of those is 46. >.<

Granted, it is a pure Ranger. But I thought I could do better than that.

What do you mean, "fail?"

Dex dual-wielders are just fine. I have one and he doesn't have any Weapon Foci, and he still hits well enough.

Strength AB and Dexterity AB are on 100% equal footing when it's a Finesse weapon. Efficiency and extra AB boil down to the build, and to how the build manages to dish out damage, since only Strength gets extra damage.

xordae wrote:

Dex dual-wielders are just fine. I have one and he doesn't have any Weapon Foci, and he still hits well enough.

Strength AB and Dexterity AB are on 100% equal footing when it's a Finesse weapon. Efficiency and extra AB boil down to the build, and to how the build manages to dish out damage, since only Strength gets extra damage.

Not entirely, dex based AB is at an immediate disadvantage in having to invest in a feat.

Since its a Ranger you will require -three- rogue levels or 2 barb/assasin/sd or all your Dex AC means nothing given how easy it is to become flatfooted.

I was pondering what path to take to make darts worthwhile... Halflings come to mind, due to the +AB with thrown weapons. But as strength is a consideration regarding damage, I'm looking at a Strongheart, maybe? I suppose there are few things to consider:

Fighter/CoT for weapon specialization?
Monk + Zen Archery for AC / retaining AC when flat-footed?
Rogue for sneak attack and compatibility with a high dex?
Potential paladin crossover if monk is taken?
Impact of Strongheart ECL?

I wasn't too interested in loading up a cleric for beneficial spells, but I imagine the balance of the damage would come from strength, specific weapons aside? There's already too many question marks in this post, so I'll stop here. I'd just appreciate random wisdom on the topic.

Something I used to run on BoW, back when it was populated, was a dex-based halfling focusing in throwing axes.

He started off as 21 ranger with BoE, 4 fighter levels with ews, and five rogue.

He was a fun little bugger, but never pulled "huge" damage at once.

Sounds interesting. I've played a little bit now with a monk 3 / fighter 1... Four levels or Fighter (or some CoT) will be necessary before 20th for full attack bonus, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't mix in 4 or 8 levels of rogue? It'd have to be even with the monk levels unless I want a permanent XP penalty, which would imply a 8/8/4 monk/rogue/fighter by 20th... And there's a limit of 3 or something to the number of classes you can have, right? So, 2 more fighter levels to get EWS, then the last six (picked a Strongheart) can be whatever mix I see fit. Gotta figure it out before spending too much time on it, I guess?

I'm still fairly new to the server (and to my build in specific), and had a few questions:

1) What skill is most useful to counteract HiPS, or invisibility? It appears that Listen is the answer, but I wanted to be sure...

2) I was told /ooc by several characters that a UMD skill of 20 is pretty much all one would ever need on the server. I am specifically looking at scroll-use, so...what's a good skill level to be able to use any scroll?

I thought I had more, but apparently not... :roll:

1) I regard spot as the most useful of the two. While most sneakers tend to favour hide over move silently, spot allows you to target people you spot while listen only allows you to glimpses every now and then.

Though beware of the many skill bonuses, you need a pretty high spot in order to be really effective though a high spot will catch most of the wannabe sneakers.

2) Currently the borderline runs around 15 umd, at least thats what I used for both my characters and they can use most things, including lvl 9 scrolls.

Bear in mind I am no build expert.

I gott get this Cleared out...

When using Two weapons. You attack with "Both" Weapons at the same time, Hence "Adding up" The damage?

Let's say you're Dual-Wielding 2x Shortswords to make it easy.

You do 1-6Damage per sword. Will i do

A - 1d6+1d6 = 2d12 Damage for each "Attack"

B - 1d6 Damage for each attack?

Using two weapons gives you your base attacks with your MAIN weapon, then you can more attacks per round with your other weapon. They don't hit at the same time.

Allright. What would you prefer then for the most Damage.

A devcrit monk with 2 kamas or Unarmed?

You can wield 2 keened wonderforged kamas. How is unarmed worth considering for max damage?

I figured that if I go with 29 Wizard (ecl+1 subrace) I can get 6 epic spells. Buut, just about everyone I know, goes +1 or 2 minor classes. Is it worth giving up the epic spell on level 29 for instance, for some minor class feats/skills (like Discipline or whatever)? Seems to me the trade off is quite a big one since, the epic spell, is usually the deal clincher in any major encounter and the dev. crit guy is going to put you down regardless of your Discipline skill dump...

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

You can wield 2 keened wonderforged kamas. How is unarmed worth considering for max damage?

ah, thanks!

soundofastream wrote:

I figured that if I go with 29 Wizard (ecl+1 subrace) I can get 6 epic spells. Buut, just about everyone I know, goes +1 or 2 minor classes. Is it worth giving up the epic spell on level 29 for instance, for some minor class feats/skills (like Discipline or whatever)? Seems to me the trade off is quite a big one since, the epic spell, is usually the deal clincher in any major encounter and the dev. crit guy is going to put you down regardless of your Discipline skill dump...

Dev Crit isn't guaraunteed. KD is unless you're an AC mage.. or you have Discipline. That's how I see it.

Tumble/Disc are important, but only if you've a build that can support them enough to maintain them at a level which is respectable.

Okay I have a problem I am an average charisma based fighter. I am feat tight and foolish me I took kd. What I need to know is should I take ikd extra turning or take divine sheild, extra turning? My ac buffed with haste and charisma gear 49 atm. I am lvl 24 and I am only going to get 2 more feats I think. I will get a tumble dump. Help me out thanks.

Extra Turning + Divine Shield.

Being able to knockdown the occasional giant creature(who's going to have ridiculous disp most likely anyway) ain't as integral as not getting hit by said giant in the first place. At least that's my take on it.

Do what feels right, in any case. And btw, you're not silly for taking KD. You're man enough not to rely on rings and gloves for your beatdowns.

Well that's. What I was leaning towards thank you.

I can't decide on a feat for a Sneak I have. It's out of Improved Sneak attack, or Blinding speed. Without the Improved sneak, his Sneak Die is 11d6. Not sure if the Blinding speed is worth it.

Improved Sneak Attack.

There's sooo many bottles/potions of Speed that you just don't need blinding speed on this server.

Anubis wrote:

I can't decide on a feat for a Sneak I have. It's out of Improved Sneak attack, or Blinding speed. Without the Improved sneak, his Sneak Die is 11d6. Not sure if the Blinding speed is worth it.

Should be easy. Rule 32488 states that under no circumstance should one take Blinding Speed, ever.

Blinding Speed is right down there with Circle Kick and Dirty Fighting.

Though blinding speed is awesome if you ever partake in a 100m sprint where no potions or spells are allowed!

But now to my question: If one was to make a char that best represents a "Forest Witch", male or female, how would that build look like? It would need arcane casting abilities and animal empathy, so wizard/Ranger would be best perhaps?

An arcane casting forest witch?

29 wizard/1 ranger, dress in green, take one of the non outsider familiars like bat or panther.

Though at that point why not just be a Druid?

TormakSaber wrote:

Though at that point why not just be a Druid?

Wouldn't that need a(n approved) request to treat their divine spells as arcane for that character (for simulation of the effect?)

If a wizard would choose "Abjuration as his spec;school", then "Conjuration" Would be his prohibited school.

Here's the question. Would this wizard be able to summon BBoD And/or EKD And/or Mummy dust, thus they are spells that "conjure". Same question about the "Lesser/greater/Normal planar binding spells"

EDK is a feat, so I suppose that would mean it's castable engine-wise. RP-wise it'd make no sense at all, though.

Mummy Dust is a necromancy spell, so that's that.

BBoD, if a Conjuration spell, wouldn't be castable. Same goes for binding spells. (Don't know the first thing about spell classes, so I can't say for sure where the binding and BBoD spells are.)

Summon 1-9, Gate, Planar Binding, BBoD, Acid Sheath, Mage Armour, and Evards Black Tentacles would all be out.

Also, the GIANT one: If you have Conjuration as your banned school, you cannot read Raise Dead scrolls.

Im going for something like fighter/wm/rogue - 20/7/3 and I have a few questions.

Do dwarves need improved knockdown to kd larger races such as orcs, humans etc?

What is the profit of going above 7 wm leves?
How much thumble points full armor is nerfing?
Is epic weapon specialization really worhy of one epic feat?

Any suggestions on this build? I had the idea of making strong melee/high dmg character. something like hired mercenary and such. Perhaps there is a better combination?

Dead wrote:

Do dwarves need improved knockdown to kd larger races such as orcs, humans etc?

Dwarves are considered the same size as humans, if I'm not mistaken. Anyways, improved KD is always nice to have.

Dead wrote:

What is the profit of going above 7 wm levels?

7 WM can only improved by 13th, 16th, and 19th WM levels, those milestone levels give you +1 AB and an epic bonus feat. Going 8, 9, 19, 11, 12 levels of WM gives no benefit at all.

Dead wrote:

How much tumble points full armor is nerfing?

Full plate has a -8 armor check penalty. Just in case you don't know, that only affects the tumble check from attacks of opportunity. As long as you have invested 30 tumble, you'll always have the +6 AC regardless of armor.

Dead wrote:

Is epic weapon specialization really worthy of one epic feat?

Yes.

Dead wrote:

Any suggestions on this build? I had the idea of making strong melee/high dmg character. something like hired mercenary and such. Perhaps there is a better combination?

20 Fighter/7 WM/3 Rogue is a good and easy build to use, imo. But if you're fishing out for alternatives you might as well look at the 12fighter/16wm/2rogue.

TormakSaber wrote:

Also, the GIANT one: If you have Conjuration as your banned school, you cannot read Raise Dead scrolls.

What the hell?

Ok, Here's a follow up question. The school a wizard "specialises" in. Does the DC of the spells cast in that school raise? O

Second question - Wich school would -you- specalise in, as a wizard?

Quote:

Ok, Here's a follow up question. The school a wizard "specialises" in. Does the DC of the spells cast in that school raise? O

Second question - Wich school would -you- specalise in, as a wizard?

1. Nope, no extra DC, only a spell slot.

NWN Wikia wrote:

A wizard may choose to specialize in a spell school, gaining one additional prepared spell per spell level but losing the ability to cast spells from the opposed spell school, even spells from scrolls. A wizard does not have to specialize, thus keeping access to all spells.

2. None? Get Spell focus feats to raise spells DCs. If you feel lacking spell uses per day, get more INT. Specializations, in my opinion are useless.

Muspelkvist wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Also, the GIANT one: If you have Conjuration as your banned school, you cannot read Raise Dead scrolls.

What the hell?

Raise Dead is a conjuration spell. Cant read the scroll if its from an opposed school.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Ok, Here's a follow up question. The school a wizard "specialises" in. Does the DC of the spells cast in that school raise? O

Second question - Wich school would -you- specalise in, as a wizard?

No, specialising only offers a +2 to counterspelling that school, and a -6 to forbibbin school. Which is junk, you'll have too much spellcraft anyways. DC is only improved with spell focuses.

Losing a whole school of spells is often more harm then losing those 1 extra spell slots per spell level, I recommend taking none. Because everytime your missing a spell, you'll go "damn, wish I had (insert) spell."

So your overall Suggestion - A generalist wizard is better..

Race: Dwarf
Fighter 20 / Weapon Master 7 / Rogue 3

Stats:

18 - STR
13 - DEX
14 - CON
8 - WIS
13 - INT
6 - CHA

1. ROGUE: Dodge
2. FIGHTER: Weapon Focus (chosen)
3. Expertise, Mobility
4. +1 str
5. Spring attack
6. Whirlwind attack
7. Weapon specialization
8. +1 str
9. Improved critical (chosen), Knockdown
10. /
11. Power attack
12. +1 str, Cleave
13. Great Cleave
14. WEAPON MASTER: Ki damage, Weapon of Choice (chosen)
15. Blind fight
16. +1 STR
17. /
18. Superior Weapon Focus, Increased Multiplayer, Improved KD (?)
19. /
20. Ki Critical
21. FIGTER: Overwhelming critical
22. Epic Weapon Focus
23. /
24. +1 str, Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Specialization
25. /
26. Armor Skin
27. Epic skill focus (discipline)
28. +1 str, Devastating critical
29. ROGUE: Evasion, thumble/UMD + skill of choice
30. Sneak attack 2d6, Uncanny dodge I, Epic skill focus (thumble)

*At first level toss skill points to thumble, UMD and intimidate (+4)

Any suggestions on gear? Changes? Maybe something else but Improved KD at level 18 (Tougness, Improved Expertise)?

Epic Skill Focus: Tumble? No.

Tumble AC is based on ranks, not your skill check. Just take 30 ranks and forget about it.

Take...Epic Fortitude?

Does somebody have statistics over the bardsong?

A Speedsheat to max bardsong every level, Like

At level 24bard you need (Insert random number here) To max it out.

Here you go.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Does somebody have statistics over the bardsong?

A Speedsheat to max bardsong every level, Like

At level 24bard you need (Insert random number here) To max it out.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_song

God, I love using the internet.

Here you go.

Ok. According to the Calculations, There's no difference AC wise between 20 bard and 24 bard "Song wise" Apart from some Skillpoints....

Here's the build i've come up with.

Race DROW

Base stats
STR 18(25)
DEX 10
CON 10
WIS 8
INT 10(12)
CHA 16(18.)

Spell Resistance

32

skills
Dicipline 33
Tumble 30
Spellcraft 30
Preform 30 (will need +20 ("50") to MAX bardsong)

Average HP "NO Buffs" = 163

Bard 1 Curse song
Bard 2
bard 3 Extend spell
Bard 4 +1 STR (19)
Bard 5
bard 6 -Power attack
Bard 7
Bard 8 +1 STR (20)
bard 9 Cleave
Blackguard 10
Blackguard 11
Blackguard 12 +1STR (21) Divine Might
Bard 13
Bard 14
Bard 15 Great Cleave
Bard 16 +1STR (22)
Bard 17
Blackguard 18 Divine Shield
Fighter 19 Imp.Crit Scimitar
Fighter 20 +1STR(23) Wep.Focus Scimitar +1
Fighter 21 Epic.Wep.Focus Scimitar +2
Bard 22
Bard 23
Bard 24 +1STR(24) Overwhelming.Critical Scimitar
Bard 25
Bard 26
Bard 27 Lasting Inspiration (Bardsong lasts 10times longer)
Fighter 28 +1STR(25) DEVASTATIC CRITICAL Scimitar

AC
+10(base)
+6(tumble) (Dodge ac)
+5(Boots) (Dodge ac)
+4(Cloak) (Deflection ac)
+4(amulet) (Natural AC)
+4(Armor) (Armor ac) < - - this is enchantment bonus
+4(shield) (Shield ac) < - - this is enchantment bonus
+8/9(Depending on Chainmail or Fullplate) (Max Dex Bonus)
+2/3(Depending on largeShield or TowerShield
+5Bardsong (temporary) (? AC)
+5Haste (temporary) (? AC)
+10Divine shield (temporary) (? AC)
+1 Mage Armor

= 48(50 With FullP/TowerS) + (20 Temporary) = 68 (or 70 with FullP+TowerS)

+AB = +43/+38/+33/+28 Fully Buffed with Bardsong And GMW

Conclusion - I can whore out a lot of AC, and a "LOT" of Damage.
But i can't hit anything..............

Any thoughts?

//This build has totaly been ripped from ForumAccount "Champion of Helm", But im responsible for adding Dev.Crit

Ok. Allready Hit into a problem as i tested.

I hit about 64 AC, as max. there has to be a problem somewhere.
Is there a "Maximum amount of Dodge ac you can get" ?

Edit - I give up trying to calculate the bloody ac. It changed every Friggin time.

#2 Edit - Nevermind. I figured out i didnt have 50 Perform. The AC calculation is correct.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Ok. Allready Hit into a problem as i tested.

I hit about 64 AC, as max. there has to be a problem somewhere.
Is there a "Maximum amount of Dodge ac you can get" ?

Edit - I give up trying to calculate the bloody ac. It changed every Friggin time.

+20 = max amount of any type of AC you can get.

You'll hit plenty with Curse Song dropping enemy AC (+5 AB) and Taunt (+6AB), if you can fit that in. Theres extended Warcry (+2AB), too.

Max 20 Dodge Bonus. 5 Boots, 4 (Not 5) haste, 1 mage armour, 5 Bardsong. Divine Sheild is only good for 5 AC. Your missing 6 points are there and haste. Its hidden on the character sheet, but theres also the effect your curse song has on enemy AB, which effectively raises your AC a couple points too.

Tumble is "Other" AC, btw. It doesnt count towards the 20.

TormakSaber wrote:

Also, the GIANT one: If you have Conjuration as your banned school, you cannot read Raise Dead scrolls.

If the specialist mage in question were to take an UMD class (with skill pts in UMD), would that fix the issue?

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