AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

For reference, I have posted most of the DC items I've ever purchased for my characters Mariha Feral and Xaviera Xuider-Xee. With the exception of Xavi's Sharessan kits, I dont think any item was less than 25 DCs (her shield and staff might have been a bit lower, though I honestly cant remember). In almost 4 years I've purchased 6, had another approved but not purchased, and another that probably would have been approved had I bothered to submit it (see below).

I have also had several requests denied; these included a widget that would steal animal summons away from other players and the 'Rainbow' - a bow that that would cycle through arrows doing damage for each of the various elemental types (divine, sonic, negative, fire, lightning, acid, etc.). Obviously they were nixed for being impossible to script (or effectively so). Finally, adding +2 Cha to a set of mythalled 5/+5 DR, +1 regen and 20 SR bracers would probably have been approved at 20-30 DCs but I didnt really feel like spending that much.

While I get along passably well with some of the DMs, the fact that I have been banned from Amia twice means that I am not exactly in their good books. Nor am I - sorry to disappoint anyone - female.

I don't know if its true or not, but I don't see it based on gender bias. Then again, wyjjyn did point out to me that Ladette tomboi's don't really count since genderwise, they'd be perceived as masculine...

So its up to others really to say if they feel somehow that they get special treatment from DMs due to a lack of dangly bits...I don't know, this whole topic depresses me, can we move on yet?

Oh whilst I'm at it, could I pweeze have a golem. I won't invest any time or energy into roleplaying research and building it...because I can't be bothered...but I deserve one!

I, myself, have been playing here for quite some time. Whilst I have been on and off or whatever; I've made my influence on the server and continue to do so. I enjoy my PC, and given that, I've never requested a DC item. May be due to the fact, that whilst I primarily don't grind monsters or bosses, I RP a tonne and haven't received very many DCs at all. And when I do, because I don't grind, I end up spending them (yes, I know... ) on levels and gold.

Because I've never requested a DC item I don't specifically know the mechanics of it: but a lot of it is human-orientated perception of overpowered or lamified roleplay. I saw a ridiculous post about a guy wanting to be like Wolverine - lulz!

There's nothing specifically wrong with the system; perhaps in the past, but I haven't involved myself enough to really oppose the option.

EDIT: Women suck anyway, and shouldn't be allowed on the internet.

And sounds... Was that a lame attempt to flame Wyjyn? If it was, fyi - he did RP the fuck out of that and it was still denied.

No, it was approved. His actions forced us to close the request.

Not the point Tormak... The point is he didn't do it like Sounds just imitated.

Sooo... *Pokes tongue* nyah!

lathandier wrote:

Not the point Tormak... The point is he didn't do it like Sounds just imitated.

Sooo... *Pokes tongue* nyah!

I was actually referring to a Golem request debacle that happened months and months ago in the Dale. The request started out as "Can I have one pweeze!" and ended up becoming a major roleplay event, after much whinning to get together the required resources to build one.

If that's flaming, rather than black humour, I guess I'm guilty.

I believe he thought you were referring to Qirlan's golem, which was a major source of discussion for the past two or three pages.

Yurell wrote:

I believe he thought you were referring to Qirlan's golem, which was a major source of discussion for the past two or three pages.

I was, ya... Soz Sounds - no harm done, ja?

None taken. Interestingly though, I find it very enjoyable to roleplay researching something IC and then eventually, after the hard work's been done, forking out the DCs for said artifact/golem, whatever.

Why do I say this? Let's face facts, DC items can be very powerful, so if you're going to uncover a major artifact, it makes sense to go on a sort of "epic quest" to gain said item. I know the DC items can be gained with very little roleplay IC, but, its more fun to "work on it" and gain DCs in the process of that legitimate roleplay whilst you're at it.

Say a DC item costs 25 DCs, you have 5 DCs, that's 20 DCs you still need which you can gain through roleplay whilst questing for said item! What's not to like about that?

I agree: there is a benefit at the end of proving yourself as an esteemed and trustworthy roleplayer. If the request is over-powered or whatever: then the stakes of DCs should be higher.

Personally, I feel DCs are handed out too freely. I get DCs for very little things that I don't even feel are worthy of a DC. Say, I walk away from a conversation leaving on a condescending note to the person I was talking to, only to find that I've been handed a DC for exemplary performance in Roleplay?

There are different ideals of standards, sure - but DCs to be thrown out by DMs who are just logging on to 'fill-their-slot-for-the-week' seem a little unrewarding, as oppose to working diligantly for the DC.

Just my opinion.

I gotta say Lathandier, I entirely disagree with you on the DC front. When I am on the server rping, I'm entirely unlikely to recieve a DC, and thats for doing much more then making a sarcastic remark. I've even not recieved DC's dispite being involved in some DM events.

Not that I actively seek out DC's you understand, I'm entirely likely to forget to use that bloody rod most of the time, and even then I don't really seek DC's when I rp, I do it for enjoyment. But you can understand then why I disagree given I my rate of DC's is far below your own.

I think your experience in this case may be an isolated thing. As I can say from the number of threads and grumblings about recently that the general feeling is DC's aren't being handed out enough.

Yeesh. Just can't make anybody happy.

You'll actually find the DC Output Frequency has grown... quite a bit over the last few years, and it's still on a steady rise.

That said, there's alot that comes into it. Can't get a DC If you're not noticed, and so few use the Dream Coin PC Tool to flag people down (or, if you've used it up, we're more than happy to check out RP that's mentioned in DM Channel. If we're not otherwise caught up). And there's certain types of RP that different DMs don't reward.

For example - I'll never DC romance. Ever. I don't think it's poor RP, and sometimes I agree it can be quite good, but personally - I don't see it as conductive to the server, setting, or the whole 'adventuring' part of being an Adventurer. Other DMs might DC Romance. Who knows. Then again, there's a pretty long list of things I don't DC, because I've got the whole 'high standards' card going for me.

Which is one of the main reasons for there being such a diversity in the DM Teams. Instead of it being locked to the opinion of having a single DM's opinion decide what is good or bad.

If you do get a DC and feel it undeserved, just consider it payment for the absolutely epic RP you did but didn't get DCed for at the time.

The problem is Ron that the diversity of the DM team doesn't pan out over the timezones. Sometimes you can get two or three DM's policing a timezone who are in to combat and adventure RP and won't DC social or romance RP. It gets really annoying then, and possibly could explain why at times it seem's like others are being favoured, when they are not, it's simply you don't do the RP the DM likes.

This being said, personally I feel that outlook is BS. Honestly now, your a DM, your not meant to be biased about RP like that. The players aren't here to entertain you, and thus you should be giving DC's equally to all. I feel being biased like that is pure asshattery. But that is my opinion on the matter, and I always feel people in postions of power should be unbiased and neutral.

I've DCed romance but my standards are high for it: the interaction should be meaningful, character moving, important.

Not a prelude to cybering, like it so often is.

TormakSaber wrote:

I've DCed romance but my standards are high for it: the interaction should be meaningful, character moving, important.

Not a prelude to cybering, like it so often is.

That seem's like the standard that should be set for any RP that deserves a DC. If not, it's kinda like giving the nobel peace prize as encourageme-oh wait, nevermind.

Le'ts not pull bullshit politics into this, thanks. Though you've managed to kill your credibility in this topic with me, anyways.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

The problem is Ron that the diversity of the DM team doesn't pan out over the timezones. Sometimes you can get two or three DM's policing a timezone who are in to combat and adventure RP and won't DC social or romance RP. It gets really annoying then, and possibly could explain why at times it seem's like others are being favoured, when they are not, it's simply you don't do the RP the DM likes.

This being said, personally I feel that outlook is BS. Honestly now, your a DM, your not meant to be biased about RP like that. The players aren't here to entertain you, and thus you should be giving DC's equally to all. I feel being biased like that is pure asshattery. But that is my opinion on the matter, and I always feel people in postions of power should be unbiased and neutral.

There's a significant difference between Like/Disliking RP, and thinking it should be rewarded.

I actually enjoy a bit of romance and drama myself, as is probably a bit obvious through my main characters. However, I don't think it should be rewarded unless by the shocking circumstance that it's actually brilliant and awe inspiring to the point where I'd go "Yes, this is meaningful enough and relevant enough to the server/setting/etc to be rewarded", in which case it falls into the prior comment of "Conductive to server, setting, or the whole 'adventuring' part of being an Adventurer"

I may enjoy it, doesn't mean I think it's the sort of thing that should be encouraged as a mainstay of RP. I don't reward it, and never was rewarded for it (Thankfully) when I was a player. Above all else, it should be a side matter, and something to keep the focus off of.

Y'want alot of DCs, you should probably be playing out your Race/Class/Alignment/Religion/Profession actively, and in a context that is worth noting. You're Adventurers, not Average Joes.

Or, alternatively, just RP as you wish and don't worry about the DCs at all.

It's something you won't be able to get past either, btw, and you can't really argue it. What are DCs given for? "Excellent Role Play". This is a factor that ultimately comes down to DM Judgement and Human Perspective of the DM behind the curtain. I, honestly, don't consider romance to be excellent Role Play. I consider it Parring the Hole, so to speak, if that.

It's Bias that's always been there, every DM is biased in different ways, and it's common knowledge. I'll just be the one to say "Yep. Bias occurs due to the system's inherant human operation. Deal with it". You can grasp frantically onto straws of people being 'unbiased' and 'neutral', but it's ultimately impossible when the deciding factor involves grading something on a non-linear scale.

"Excellent RP" varies by the person judging it. It's simply a common factor that the most common view of Excellent RP is "Things Adventurers Should Be Doing" as opposed to playing out your lonely fantasies in game.

Oh, I rarely receive DCs... But when I do, I've found them to be rewarded on rather mediocre actions.

I do agree with the DM timezones... I don't get many DCs usually because of the timezone I'm in.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

This being said, personally I feel that outlook is BS. Honestly now, your a DM, your not meant to be biased about RP like that. The players aren't here to entertain you, and thus you should be giving DC's equally to all. I feel being biased like that is pure asshattery. But that is my opinion on the matter, and I always feel people in postions of power should be unbiased and neutral.

I think this can be asked of each individual DM (although I do discriminate myself: new players get a DC from me very easily, kinda like ... well, let's not go there). Between DMs... you'd have more luck herding cats than getting a single "this is good RP which should be rewarded" ideology from the DM team.

TormakSaber wrote:

Le'ts not pull (censored) politics into this, thanks. Though you've managed to kill your credibility in this topic with me, anyways.

Pfft, that last comment was only meant to be a joke.

I think we absolutely should be biased in the way we reward DCs! Not biased towards certain people, gender, race, class or whatnot. But biased towards content and style. The very purpose of the DC system is to reward and encourage good role-play. Why on earth would I encourage something I don't want to see on Amia?

I don't DC cuddly, snuggly romance RP, because I think it has no place in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. I don't mind torture and perverted sex acts (if it weren't against the rules), but I get a puke reaction from a couple sitting in the woods, watching the stars and sighing romantically.

I might DC social/romance RP if it's exceptionally good, witty, and actually feels like part of the world and not a private thing between two players. Most of the time, it's just awkward to everyone else, and has no impact beyond the gratification of the two people involved.

I'm likely to DC conflict, prejudice, adventure, politics, witty and intelligent humor that isn't limited to standing in Cordor to comment every passer-by, and PCs that improve immersion by representing their race, religion, culture and class in a way that feels authentic. I am completely biased in this, and that's the point: we try to encourage certain types RP to create the kind of server culture we prefer. Every DM has different standards, but we all do our small part. Sometimes, though, I just DC you for staying IC, RPing even when nobody else does. My primary interest is to encourage RP, and only secondarily the kind of RP I want to see.

Pretty much what Ron and iRon said there. D&D is about adventure, so intrigue, scheming and such should be the main deal.

Despite what everyone seems to say, that every DM has different tastes, I don't think we differ that much in the end.

The reason I say you should DC unbiasedly and neutrally Iron is because the DM team is extremely fond of saying "Don't tell others how to RP". By not giving out DC's for all forms of RP allowed on the server, it's kinda like saying "Doing this is bad" or "I don't like this, so don't do". Which is kinda going against what is being said about not telling other how to RP.

There's a significant difference.

You're allowed to RP whatever you want. We'll never demean you for it, but that doesn't mean we need to encourage it.

It's more like saying "You can RP whatever you want, but you won't get rewards (as opposed to payment, as some people seem to view the DC system) for X RP."

It's the old Carrot & Stick arguments.

Besides, the chance of being observed while doing stellar RP (or doing stellar RP when being observed) is probably way lower than a DM actually not giving a DC for it because he thinks it sucks.

WonWon wrote:

There's a significant difference.

You're allowed to RP whatever you want. We'll never demean you for it, but that doesn't mean we need to encourage it.

It's more like saying "You can RP whatever you want, but you won't get rewards (as opposed to payment, as some people seem to view the DC system) for X RP."

It's the old Carrot & Stick arguments.

Precisely.

Though, I don't understand this sentiment that a DM shouldn't have a say in what kind of RP is done in his/her campaign. It's kind of a major point there, required for guiding the story towards certain goals (which doesn't mean railroading, either). Adventure won't proceed if the characters are stuck in a tavern partying. Good reason for the DM to burn the tavern down to get them out on the road again.

Same applies to our server. You want excitement and adventure? It's not gonna drop from the heavens on you, if you sit around and chat about your relationship troubles with a mean tiefling chick. Social servers are for that sort of stuff. On Amia, it should be a side story, not the main plot.

Last edited by corypx on Wed, Oct 21 2009, 10:46 AM, edited 6 times in total.

yeah not a fan of all the sissy guys who are emo about thier girlfrinds IC and feelings...this is D&D not a soap opera GET SOME NUTS

I think if people enjoy the tavern party, leave them alone and look for players who are actually looking for a DM to create adventure and conflict.

Those tea party people contribute in their way to the server and the stories. That doesn't mean I think it should be rewarded by DCs, but I think lately there is a trend to forcing those kind of players to take part of the adventure and conflict RP if they want to or not.

ClockworkRed wrote:

I think if people enjoy the tavern party, leave them alone and look for players who are actually looking for a DM to create adventure and conflict.

Those tea party people contribute in their way to the server and the stories. That doesn't mean I think it should be rewarded by DCs, but I think lately there is a trend to forcing those kind of players to take part of the adventure and conflict RP if they want to or not.

There's no such "trend", though there's been a few posts by a certain player under several alt accounts claiming such. If people want to sit around and have tea, they can. But they can't expect to get DCs or demand them, for example. And if and when they choose to take action in the world, they're susceptible to consequences to their actions, just like everybody else is.

Conversly, Mother Goose, I know of atleast one person who has gotten a DC for nothing more than that... but the RP was entertaining, intriguing and enjoyable... but your point is totally right.. people can't expect to get DC's doing.. really, anything, you nkow?

Honestly, if people just got online to RP, and not RP for rewards, I think they'd find this whole point mute.

Regards,

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Conversly, Mother Goose, I know of atleast one person who has gotten a DC for nothing more than that... but the RP was entertaining, intriguing and enjoyable...

Ding! We got a winner! There's a few kinds of tea parties: where people chat about their relationship troubles with the tiefling chick, for example, and then there's tea parties where people go over the recent politics and events, tell stories of Amian history, advance ongoing plots by making decisions and agreements... there's a lot of things that you can sit around and talk about and get DCs for.

So? If the tiefling chick is the leader of a crack commando squad of deathgoons and the relationship issues are caused by her murder of innocents is it still not DC worthy?

Good RP should be DC'ed, whether it's world conquest, or conquests closer to home!

Well, in a more (excessively) realistic scenario it is a goody pally boy crying there, and it's worthy of a fall then.

Sounds cool to me. A fall sequence would probably put a spark up any good RPer's ass. You might find yourself suddenly spamming DC as this guy works his little fallen testicles off to fix his error!

Despite roleplaying for hours on several different characters, I haven't gotten a DC in months. I got irritated, since I was saving up to buy something. After a several month dry spell. I just quit and went to another server in irritation.

A shame, you are a great player. Or was that a joke?

But I really think you should not make any plans which require you to have a certain amount of DCs. The distribution is so uneven over time that even though you recieve many in a few days, you must always expect that you get not a single one for weeks or months.

Better to just store them and ignore them until you have a bunch together and then worry how you spend them.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

but the RP was entertaining, intriguing and enjoyable... but your point is totally right.. people can't expect to get DC's doing.. really, anything, you nkow?

Amusingly enough I once got a DC for trying to con someone. That was from Crowsterf back then.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Honestly, if people just got online to RP, and not RP for rewards, I think they'd find this whole point mute.

It boils down to this in my opinion. I stopped caring about DC's a long time ago and still have a lot of fun.
Only pitiful thing is that I'll never get a tail for my character, but I can live with that.
I also remember the time when some people got a DC because of their discussion about magic.
And then there was the time when I played my Druid.. I think I racked more DC's with her alone than all the other characters I had before.
Why?
I got involved with Darthyon and the Church of Bane.
Most awesome RP group ever. *sagenod*

I got into a massive fight with Tarick as Barra'Keeshe inside the Yuan-ti Temple once, good times. =3 And that was also against probably three Banites? Yeah, me 'n' Tarick lost but we lasted a fair while. Good times. *Sagenod*

Perhaps the lacking DC spread has to do with how the DMs are chosen. I don't mean that in as negative a way as it may sound, what I do mean to say is that it's only natural that, when choosing a new DM, the team will look at people's roleplaying skills (among other skills), and are more likely to consider people playing in a way they like/find correct or good roleplay, than someone playing in a way they don't find interesting/relevant/whatever.

I can't say that that's the case for sure, but it seems reasonable enough to assume, I mean, they're human as well. Or most of them are, at least. :lol:

Not necessarily bad, but that depends on whether or not you agree to what (your subjective idea of what) the DMs like seeing in roleplay.

Did that make any sense at all?

There's two major reasons for gaps in DC spread. One is players' fault. There's a lot of folks who complain that they don't get any, but DMs never see them RP, either. Second is that the Aussie prime time is always lacking a DM, no matter from what time zone we recruit them. So players who mostly play during that time will suffer, no matter how good roleplayers they are and no matter how much they stay IC. It's sad.

Oh I agree. People who don't roleplay shouldn't get DCs that goes without saying, but wouldn't you say that there are so many forms and variations of roleplay that certain groups could be overlooked, if the team was built on the notion that a certain form of it is considered "right" or "good" roleplay, and other kinds "wrong" or "bad?"

There's not many of those, really. There's romance RP as a main type of RP, that many of us don't reward. Torture, maybe for some. Romance as part of something more Dungeons & Dragon-y passes the limit, too.

Essentially, anything that suits the character/alignment/classes/etc and brings to mind "This is D&D" gets rewarded.

Nekhy wrote:

Second is that the Aussie prime time is always lacking a DM, no matter from what time zone we recruit them.

Europe time is also occasionally missing some!

Then again, its not a full time job which they need to do. They are free to do it. Might just be that they are not in the mood, not on all the time, etc.

European daytime = Aussie prime time, unless I am severely mistaken.

Euro evenings, especially late evenings, are quite well staffed.

Ever since becoming a DM, I've been recalcitrant about telling anyone, even my fellow DMs, anything significant about my criteria for awarding DCs. The more specific I get, the more players are going to manipulate their style to get something out of me and do it all for the wrong reason.

I will say this, though.

I see plenty of types of roleplay. Romantic, introspective, comic, action-oriented, moody, scary. But I do not award DCs based upon whether I believe it or not. On whether I get something out of it or not.

I award DCs based on whether I think you and your fellow players are getting something out of it. And I have very specific signs I look for that tell me this.

fireprooftroll wrote:

Despite roleplaying for hours on several different characters, I haven't gotten a DC in months. I got irritated, since I was saving up to buy something. After a several month dry spell. I just quit and went to another server in irritation.

You came back though. Anyway, you shouldn't depend. Remember DC's are for exceptional RP. You have to keep pushing the envelope!

You know, it wouldn't hurt to ask your fellow players what they think of your RP. Because part of enjoying RP is getting other people to enjoy it too, and you can't do that if you don't know what your 'audience' is getting out of it. Enjoyable RP is more likely to be rewarding whether you get a DC or not, but in my opinion a slap upside the head with the green stick is more likely if someone enjoys your RP.

Mostly, I DC people for knocking my socks off with stellar RP; sometimes though, the devil is purely in the details:

I've DCed people for stuff such as acknowledging NPCs, often with very simple emotes or gestures (anything more than that, and you are breaking rules). Many of you seem to RP in a world populated solely by PCs. You are so exclusively immersed in the PC universe of plots, goals and habits, you neglect the NPCs. I mean this both in the sense that NPCs are not part of your character's short or long term goals, but also in the very immediate sense that they are almost invisible to you. Quite understandably so for the most part, I might add. When NPCs are not possessed by a DM, they are quite dull, and there are rules against metagaming them; while PCs are there and alive all the time. That is why it can be DC worthy, by me at least, when I see a player addressing two PCs standing close to a NPC with "Hey, you three, ever 'eard of the teachings of Tyr?". (The point I tried to make above is nicely illustrated by the inevitbale response of one of the PCs: "Idiot. Can't you count or somethin', there's just the two of us here.") Another thing I've DC people for is walking, not running everywhere. Really, I've DCed people for doing all kinds of super simple gestures, such as taking their helmets off when they step into an inn, leaving a token outside shrine etc.

So, if you've ever gotten a peculiar DC from me, when you did something really simple, like seeking shelter from the rain. It might've been because I thought you revealed to me that you are trying to RP in a living, breathing world consisting of PCs, NPCs and the general environmet, rather than just Amia as a social community consisting of IC with players, OOC with players and the general mechanics.

Numbers, I haven't touched Amia since early this month.

One of the key things is the lack of DMs. The odd thing however, is that I see more than a few DMs online, due to my huge playing schedule. Without wanting to make any of them feel like I am having a go at them, I have to say its disappointing when I was told by one that he "don't reward DCs to friends"

I can understand the rationale behind this. And I can even say its a good one, I just think that it sucks for me, the player, who can't get DCs from the very DM he sees the most.

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