AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Pridegaming/Powergaming

Silvarus wrote:

Azran wrote:

Think it's the fact that none told us the place is free for the taking. For all people knew it was another town protected by invisible npc's or deux ex powers and practically untouchable like the rest of amia.

You can't just toss in a town and expect people to figure out that it's intended to be fought for without letting them know that's what it's there for.

Now that's it out though, I expect people to go wild over it, so yay.

Agreed.

Thank yeas, that was the point. Can't claim there was 'no interest' if people don't know it's there for that purpose.

True, but in all honesty, perhaps they were hoping adventurers would actually go on "adventures", as in explore places they don't explicitly know or have heard about, rather than be adventurers in the same hunting grounds they've known for 13 generations of PC's.

That said, they probably should have know our populace better to know that if we ain't heard o' it, we ain't going... a DM event to introduce would have been an option, but then you would have gotten into DM's actually being a part of Chillwyck and its storyline/plot, thereby defeating the whole purpose of a unruled place altogether. I suppose.

Anyway, just trying to look at it from the DM's perspective here. The fact is, we all know about it now, perhaps we ought make use of that knowledge.

Well, I guess it's more like this: players asked for it, it was added (and I believe there was some mentions and an unannounced understanding of it at the time), but nobody stepped up to do anything, so it was forgotten. I'm fairly sure it was no secret at the time it was added. I completely understand newer players, or those not actively following forum discussions back then, wouldn't know about it.

Just checking, is Chillwyck the area with skeletons and a crypt?

No, it's the place with terrible tasting ale.

Well if you ask me, the best way to get players to visit areas that they've not heard of is to have a quest to seek it out.

I don't know the location of most new places, my characters don't know the location, my characters have never heard of these locations, nobody my characters talks to has heard of the locations or knows where they are. Thus, I never visit them.

If your gonna stick an area in the middle of nowhere, and not have some way that the PC's could heard about them IC. You should expect that people won't try exploring them, as they don't know they exist.

I love 'splorin' stuff! Got myself a backpack the other day, and just went walkin'!

But srsly... I can't believe you're all still discussing how to RP with each other.

That's probably because roleplaying isn't something that you do one way or the other, like for example, rollerpainting.

And because you know, people need inspiration, and sometimes when you read what someone else wrote, you get an idea that you never would have come up with on your own.

lathandier wrote:

I love 'splorin' stuff! Got myself a backpack the other day, and just went walkin'!

That was how I found it and I even mentioned IC of it to some people who either forgot or went there and did not like the place.

It is very small. I, however, never thought it was a place free for the taking. >_>;;

Perhaps one day in the future if I make a new/resurrect my old faction...But then, again, it will probably be taken or being fought for. ^^;

lathandier wrote:

I love 'splorin' stuff! Got myself a backpack the other day, and just went walkin'!

But srsly... I can't believe you're all still discussing how to RP with each other.

But isn’t this one of the problem now, players are going to the places they know only, most parties I have been in do the grinding of a area they are familiar with. The most exploring I have done has been on my own, walk around for hours in locations I never knew existed but found little to no traffic through them.

I found some low level areas that I walked and easily fought through in the hopes that the areas would get progressively harder, that was not the case however, was still fun to explore anyways since I wasn’t out for exp. Perhaps the builders could take a look at some areas and see if they can attract all levels through them instead of them dieing out when players gain too much exp for the areas.

There should be allot more exploration RP as well, it is up to us players to slow down a bit in areas, especially new ones, even if they are below your level. To me it seems the areas are separated in regards to player levels, some areas you get to and you die right away because its way to hard, others you travel through to a end that never gets hard enough, we could use more level progression type areas.

Hero/Peragon/Epic... That's the level progression system.

People go to places they know to grind because they understand the mechanics, know how to beat the monsters, and know where the exp and loot are. All of it is an OOC action - people don't consider partying to be an IC situation. They disregard the given circumstances and the five senses because OOCly they understand how to exploit the area for their benefit.

We're selfish that way. The only time you'll see people RPing in a party that they've grinded the shit out of before, is when a DM is watching. Why? Because they can deceive the DM and win the DC.

People do what they want because they can. Especially given that this is a game - the best we can do, as the prime-RPers (if you truly are one) is set the example. RP, even if they're not. Slow down, even if they run... Who cares about your buffs wearing out!

And if they continue to speak ONLY in party chat (AZRAEL!!!!), tell them to shut the feck up.

It's not up to the DMs to supply us with the invitation; we're the players... Essentially we win.

Jan wrote:

Just checking, is Chillwyck the area with skeletons and a crypt?

It's so dead it might as well be a crypt.

Whats a "prime-RPer"?

Just bring back the bloody "effortless, impossible" markers already. I told you it was a silly idea and would hinder newbie players when it was discussed.

I find some times I've had a bad day and just want to bash pixels in a friendly community.

Quote:

The only time you'll see people RPing in a party that they've grinded the (censored) out of before, is when a DM is watching. Why? Because they can deceive the DM and win the DC.

I am a new player, and I RP in every situation. I just found out what a DC is, and have not made an effort to "decieve a DM". Besides, how do you know a DM is watching.

Quote:

Just bring back the bloody "effortless, impossible" markers already. I told you it was a silly idea and would hinder newbie players when it was discussed.

Certainly hinders the crap out of me, especially when i am exploring. I don't know AMia at all, and have found myself out exploring, only to take on some impossbile creatures and get immediately killed. MY PC has a lore of 16 at level 10, and I would think that she'd know that "beatsmen are dangerous", etc etc.

Resurgent23 wrote:

Quote:

The only time you'll see people RPing in a party that they've grinded the (censored) out of before, is when a DM is watching. Why? Because they can deceive the DM and win the DC.

I am a new player, and I RP in every situation. I just found out what a DC is, and have not made an effort to "decieve a DM". Besides, how do you know a DM is watching.

I wasn't referring to newbies there - rather the grinders of popular areas... Hunting, as we like to elevate it's calling, is purely an OOC thing if you're with the wrong party. That pisses the crap out of me... But there's nothing as a prime-RPer (I say prime-RPer Hendrack, as to say your primary objective is to roleplay) you can do about it, other than setting the example.

Wasn't referring to newbies at all.

As a rough guide, get yourself a ranged weapon and attack from far away enough that you pull just one of the unknown creatures. Assuming that you want to see how you can handle them in melee combat, wait until they get close and then you'll get to see their attack rolls.

The second number in the attack roll is their AB for a particular attack, the higher this is the more accurate their swings are and the more AC you will need to survive when you take them on solo or bring your friends.

When you have this information, run away. Chug a potion of Invisibility if you really can't shake your pursuit.

Resurgent23 wrote:

I am a new player, and I RP in every situation. I just found out what a DC is, and have not made an effort to "decieve a DM". Besides, how do you know a DM is watching.

I'm gonna use you as a public example now, sorry... but it's a good example! I've seen you out there on hunting grounds a few times, and you (and your groups) made this little ol' DM's session happier! Players focusing on RP on hunts? There must be a god! It takes more than exploration to get the oldies focused on the environment.

Lies! But... No... You're right - screw all you oldies and your pretense!

Lathandier wrote:

And if they continue to speak ONLY in party chat (AZRAEL!!!!), tell them to shut the feck up.

It's better the OOC talking be in the party channel than the talk channel though, isn't it? You can even turn it off if you don't want to read it.

True enough, but by gods! If they actually do need to contact me OOCly via the party chat - I won't receive it 'til they tell me.

i think in one of these posts i already expressed my displeasure with hunting the same places over and over again. it's one of the reasons I kind of stopped hunting.. no one wants to go anywhere else! i go all alone. lol Frankly I am bored of lizard men. My exploring partner hasn't been playing because his computer broke.

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

my displeasure with hunting the same places over and over again.

just means you got all the rest of the server to hunt on.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Just bring back the bloody "effortless, impossible" markers already. I told you it was a silly idea and would hinder newbie players when it was discussed.

No.

Why does so called hunting have to be just for exp gathering? Some of the best RP can come from hunting and exploring parties, sending out scouts, searching the area for the best camp site, setting up the camp, ect ect. People are just in such a rush these days. I understand some want to rush through before their buffs run out but if that happens and need to rest then make your way back to camp to do so, if more equipment is needed, like heal kits, then sent a few people to go and get more for the group, while the group sets up on guarding their camp and gathers food, ect.

Slow down a little on your hunts, gather the exp you want but integrate reasonable RP in doing so. Remember that this is a RP server and exp gathering and RP, just like PvP and RP are not exclusive from each other.

If I could add something, the best way I've found to RP hunt is to go somewhere you and your party have never gone before.

And I don't mean never gone before with that particular character, I mean never gone. Ever.

It helps put yourself in your character's shoes if you seriously don't know what's up ahead. And in truth, isn't that half of any adventure anyway?

Those places stop existing at some point, though.

Quote:

sending out scouts,

*Coughhack!* That never works for being rewarded DC's.

Teufel Eldritch wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Just bring back the bloody "effortless, impossible" markers already. I told you it was a silly idea and would hinder newbie players when it was discussed.

No.

I agree with Teufel. I like it without those tags.

Quote:

Teufel Eldritch wrote:
Selvec Darkon wrote:
Just bring back the bloody "effortless, impossible" markers already. I told you it was a silly idea and would hinder newbie players when it was discussed.
No.

I agree with Teufel. I like it without those tags.

Why were they removed in the first place? To me it is a silly idea, especially when the people who are for having them gone have been playing here for years.

The only suggestion was spend X on Invis potions, and hope you can lure mobs one at a time, and a condescending description of what AB is an how it works.

People meta'd them during CvC conflict.

I want the "effortless, impossible" markers back so I know who I can trade without asking people thier levels all the time and not get banned for so called twinking.

I find alot of PCs I have talked to over the months/years that would could as IC friends I would give them stuff for free, I was handing out mythals,gold..ect left and right, but turns out alot of them were not 25+

Quote:

People meta'd them during CvC conflict.

*sighs* Of course they did. So what? those people will meta everything anyway.

Resurgent23 wrote:

Quote:

People meta'd them during CvC conflict.

*sighs* Of course they did. So what? those people will meta everything anyway.

Doesn't mean we should roll over and make it easier for them, though, does it?

And besides. It's much harder to meta now that they took out the login classes and bio ratings. I mean, forsomeone to know your character is a Mage, they'll actually have to see you ICly do something mage like, aka casting spells. Or at least looking the part. It's a completely valid assumption for your regular guy to look at a guy carrying a magic staff, in robes, toting books along and think "Oh, he's a mage", given the setting. And if he casts spells, possibly even how powerful he is from observing what his spells do.

That's a BIG difference from some chaotic stupid ass examining your character and being presented with information as to whether or not he should try to PvP you.

I recognize that some people play to win, while others play to play. Those that play to win are gonna spend their time figuring out how to win, i.e. metagamin, etc etc.

What's to stop them from asking their other dumb@$$ friends if they know so-and-so's class and such?

I play to play, and don't worry about those people. so what if they pvp me? oooh, I have to get some more xp on a PC I am going to play anyway, even if I was level 30. I'm not a whiner like some people. Besides, they can't drop your levels either.

Which are you?

Er.... what?

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I guess I'm a player that recognizes that whatever luxury I'd get from seeing "Impossible" or "Effortless" in character bios is not worth the RP emersion lost or the OoC nonsense that's usually provoked by it.

Let them ask their friends. If they ask their "friends" IC, character to character, that's actually quite allowed. The fact is, if you can make it less easy for someone to do something that is against the server's rules anyway(metagame), then it's probably in the best interest of everyone. Simple as that.

Sorry for whoever has to take time to RP on a Persistent RP World and actually find out things about monsters IC. Not really. You find out just like everyone else did, either by asking someone IC or finding out yourself by an adventure. Even if it were possible only to turn them on for monsters, I wouldn't support it, because unless you've interacted with the spawn before to figure out if they're "very difficult" or "effortless" for you to fight, WYSIWYG. Plainly put, bio markings are OoC and we do not want to encourage or facilitate OoC on Amia.

corypx wrote:

I want the "effortless, impossible" markers back so I know who I can trade without asking people thier levels all the time and not get banned for so called twinking.

I find alot of PCs I have talked to over the months/years that would could as IC friends I would give them stuff for free, I was handing out mythals,gold..ect left and right, but turns out alot of them were not 25+

But the new ruling is, you can give people stuff as long as its not 2+ levels above their level, in terms of power. You're relying upon the one who receives the gift to tell you if it is or isn't above and beyond their acceptable level, so the onus is now on the gift receiver.

As for players whinging that you're griefing them because you're epic and they're not, there's nothing in the PvP rules on that and that's purely OOC information and shouldn't be acted upon.

Fact is, if say Darthion comes up to my level 12 character and says, do X or die (Gives me the out), I can either take the OUT or die. The fact that I failed to take the OUT, is my own stupid fault. To then blame him for picking on me as an epic, is pridegaming because I had a legit OUT and -I- failed to take it.

In fact, in the last confrontation my PC had with him, his OUT was, one of us three will die, you get to choose who it is...we did the encounter anyway and didn't flag the "not fair button" because, in "real life", life isn't fair and in my eyes at least, he did everything a Banite would do IC anyway.

Wear the consequences, life aint fair, get over it!

At the same time, through the millions of PvP encounters I've had with Elithiel there's a few things one can do to make the process somewhat less painful.

1. Make the OUT idiot proof. I used to be extremely subtle, weaving the OUT into the conversation thread, now I've learnt to be extremely EXPLICIT in my OUTs. People are stupid it seems.
2. If they fail to take the out or still whinge to you OOC, you have two choices, kill them as per PvP rules and cop a load of abuse in tells OR, walk away and let them get away with their pester power/pridegaming tactics.

In the short term, it gives you far less headaches to let them walk. In the longrun, it is ultimately detrimental to the culture of the server and as that behaviour starts to set in and rot, you'll find PvP will almost always be a pain OOC.

My solution is to take the tell hell, let them abuse and let off steam, whatever. Don't mean they should walk. Pretty soon, the culture will ultimately change, people will swallow their pride and take the OUT or take a beat down IC. When they realise that the DMs will back you if you've given them a legit OUT and they didn't take it, they'll stop complaining and start dealing with it IC.

People need to harden up a bit. Get over the ego, take the beat down from that epic, deal with it IC, eat the humble pie and take the OUT or face the IC consequences.

Just to repeat, life ain't fair. If you walk down in the slums of Johannesburg and get set upon by 20 hoodlums, tough luck. Why should it be any different in Amia? Get over it!

Well, in all truth, it's not as cut an dried as "Darthy tells you to do X or die", IMO. It's "Darth tells you to do X (((but perhaps if you turn around and go back he won't press it hard, *gnudge, gnudge*)))" If the case were he tells you to pay homage to Bane or die, the first is not a viable "out" for a paladin or other goody now is it? Therefore not an out at all. Heh... it's funny how Darth/Banites are always everyone's first example of a villian... bad(which is good) reputation I guess.

In my terms, an out allows the confronted party to exit the situation on their own terms, so long as those terms don't involve further hostile action. In example:

A villian and the his crew set up some sort of blockade right outside of Khol West. Likely, there will be a lot of lowbie Good aligned PC's passing through due to how close it is to the city. If they stop a lv 3 goodie trying to pass through, the ultimatum is "Pay homage to (Ooga-booga-boogeyman) to cross or die."

Of course, the goodie can't do that... or rather shouldn't if he's any shred of respect for himself. The out the villian should naturally allow the goodie to do would be to turn around and find another way around. It's completely within even a paladin's reasoning to "I shall never pay homage to your foul god!", turn with his nose in the air and find another way around. The villian's can go "yeah, that's what I thought, pansy" to his back all they want, the situation is resolved by a true out, and no one's stepped on.

Now, if the goodie feel's his britches are big enough, he can pressure the situation, if he feels his char isn't the type that would run away from evil, no matter the odds, but such is his own choice, and if he looses, then sure, you can even call it his fault. In the end, under these rules at least and as I understand them, PvP is always initiated by choice, not by one party failing to take the only option(which may not be an option at all) that the other party gives them.

If the OUT is too far from your ability to take it IC, you should send a tell asking for a different OUT if at all possible, explaining why it'd be impossible to take that one and remain IC.

Azran wrote:

You can't just toss in a town and expect people to figure out that it's intended to be fought for without letting them know that's what it's there for.

Now that's it out though, I expect people to go wild over it, so yay.

more like "major faction moves in and takes it over" in fact, I'ed be surprised of that hasn't already happened. :roll:

J.G. wrote:

Azran wrote:

You can't just toss in a town and expect people to figure out that it's intended to be fought for without letting them know that's what it's there for.

Now that's it out though, I expect people to go wild over it, so yay.

more like "major faction moves in and takes it over" in fact, I'ed be surprised of that hasn't already happened. :roll:

Ahem. *Cough*

WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Well a group of ppl did in the past look at claiming it as their own town but was put off by the cold & the lousy ale. So it wasn't totally unknown of.

In regards to PvP IC outs:

They're very simple to give, and I always give them. I usually give a lot of them as well, particularly when I know that the opponent is very unlikely to stand a chance in PvP (I don't actually enjoy giving players an emotional roller-coaster ride through a beat down).

It usually goes like this:

Opponent: "You're crap, your god is crap. I think you're crap, and you should apologize bla bla."
Me: "That's rather foolish. Perhaps you should pike off, before I chop off your legs below the knees and then proceed to stomp your skull into an expressionistic piece of art."
Opponent: "I'm not going anywhere, I'm staying right here. You go, you piece of scum!"
Me: "You're really not giving me much choice, cupcake. Either flee now, and hide, or you'll become horrendously violated to the point where you wish you were never born."
Opponent: "Bite me!"

*Smackdown*

That's a valid out as any.

Asking someone to pike off, or simply head off, is giving the opponent a very valid IC out. If you encounter a group in a hunting ground, all they would need to do is continue their hunt. I can't follow them, as per the griefing rules, seeing how they were there first etc etc.

In any other location, it's simple enough as to walk off. Just turning around, walking away 15 yards or something similar. I always tend to leave the area soon thereafter, since I don't want to re-engage into the previous encounter immediately thereafter. I've always had the personal feeling that that would be close to griefing/OOC bullying as well.

But what you often see, are characters that absolutely refuse to back down.

I can understand paladins and the like, taking a heroic stand, even though it likely means they'll get their teeth kicked in. But you'll often see lowbies acting like that as well, and then whining because you're an epic who gave them a beating.

Should that happen... just ignore it.

Simple as that.

I must admit, the outs I usually give are along the lines of leave (or emote leaving) or beg forgiveness. People who don't think those are fair outs should consider that before badmouthing the character.

Using Darthion as an example (if you'll permit, Mago) - a huge figure in dark armour with an evil reputation ... what do you think insulting him is going to get? A giggle and cupcakes? "Leave or die" seems a perfectly valid out to me (assuming one isn't forcing someone from a hunting ground).

Yeah. The "out" isn't supposed to be "Go along your merry way, your pride and dignity intact." If it's something your character won't swallow, then it's an IC choice. That's the consequence of playing a chivalric knight: he can't back away from a challenge. It's not like other players should refrain from challenging him. :shock:

It must of course be reasonable OOC. "Give me your stuff" isn't reasonable. "Log out" isn't reasonable. "Become my slave" isn't reasonable. But seriously: we're all reasonable people, hopefully. Those who aren't can be reported to the DMs.

Yurell wrote:

I must admit, the outs I usually give are along the lines of leave (or emote leaving) or beg forgiveness. People who don't think those are fair outs should consider that before badmouthing the character.

Using Darthion as an example (if you'll permit, Mago) - a huge figure in dark armour with an evil reputation ... what do you think insulting him is going to get? A giggle and cupcakes? "Leave or die" seems a perfectly valid out to me (assuming one isn't forcing someone from a hunting ground).

Ahahahah cupcakes.
<3

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