Are you suggesting I would have to demean myself by encouraging their fragile ego by...ugh...huggling them and saying, "I think the world of you. You are an excellent roleplayer, and I treasure and value any time I have to interact with you"?
I'm getting diabetes just thinking about it.
Well the other end of the spectrum, never giving any encouragement, isn't that great either.
Last edited by Selmak on Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.
My point being... if you feel like someone is going to or is taking your IC actions as a OOC insult , saying nothing at all doesn't help. Being nice and understanding that it does in fact happen and not adding fuel to the fire helps.
Fair enough. But let's say that while I am not pridegaming, I do want to maintain a certain degree of pride and self-respect, and don't want to be a mollycoddling schmuck who has to assuage the infantile self-esteem issues of another player because they ask "Do you not like me?" when I engage only in IC conversation with them, and not OOC.
Are you suggesting I would have to demean myself by encouraging their fragile ego by...ugh...huggling them and saying, "I think the world of you. You are an excellent roleplayer, and I treasure and value any time I have to interact with you"?
I'm getting diabetes just thinking about it.
LMAO no I am not. No need to have to stoke anyones......ego. >_O I think at that point just answering 'I have no problem with you.' would suffice. After that if they still want to bitch- ignore them. I agree I don't want to act like everyone mommy.
I guess a would help.. besides I thought Huggling was an insult here? har har.
I don't really believe that I can encourage anyone anymore, not after Budly. Because really, what does my opinion matter? What should my opinion matter?
Oh, right. I'm a DM. Therefore, my encouragement is favoritism.
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Quote:
besides I thought Huggling was an insult here?
=0 If it was I'd be smacking people to give them respect! *See the book named 'Wizards First Rule' for clarefence(Spell check on that word people! Pronto!)*
When a OOC rawr/flame breaks out, it's best to just keep apologizing to shut them up. =P Unless that totally makes things worse and you can give them a mythal instead and say it's rock candy.
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All good thoughts here indeed but I haven’t seen anyone bring up what RP actually is. RPing is being a actor, playing a part of a character you have created, a character that is growing in its own personality. OOC and IC should be separated, I totally disagree that IC stems from how you are OOC because that is no so in most cases. Players are not here to be themselves, they can do that without the game, they are here to experience other viewpoints and have fun doing so.
Sending a tell after extreme conflicts indeed can promote community acting and help rid a little of the anxiety. Extreme conflicts doesn’t always mean PvP either, can be any type of conflict just like political posturing.
I have seen several cases where people got upset because situations did not go as they had planed. Plan your moves but do not plan how it will end, you just do not know until the end. Expect to lose then you will not get disappointed when you do as well as you will be much more excited about a win if you win.
There is not a single thing that can pin down such problems that are based on the human factor but there are many solutions that can be tried, mostly by the players themselves. One suggestion, and I have caught myself doing this too often myself, cut down on all the OOC party chatter as well as the //OOC chatter. If two people are having OOC issues with something send tells or even call on a DM to mediate between the two. When the problem becomes visible to everyone around it just makes it worse by drawing in more heated opinions. Al the OOC party chat and //OOC chat tends to break up the RP and emersion of what is going on and to those around wanting to actually RP it is very disturbing and unwanted. Try your best not to hash out OOC differences of opinion in the open that can affect others there that want to play , it’s a tad selfish.
A thing about winning and loosing…. it’s a persistent world, its not some weekend game that has set goals so you can win it then box it up. You do not “have” to win, in fact loosing sometimes can be more rewarding. You do not have to be a hero, and if you are then you do not have to be a hero all the time. If you are a level 30 mage and you come across 4 level 5 hin bandits trying to rob you then why just cast one spell and kill them all? It is still 4 to 1 so RP it as such, just because you can mechanically kill them all doesn’t mean you should. You will find that more fun RP is created by letting the situation run the RP rather then levels or power.
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Meh, those that have played with me know that I send tells after a roleplay session, or even pvp session to keep OOC nice and cool. A simple, "Thanks for the RP!"
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lathandier wrote:
Meh, those that have played with me know that I send tells after a roleplay session, or even pvp session to keep OOC nice and cool. A simple, "Thanks for the RP!"
I do the same ... it's nice to be friendly, and show that there is no hard feelings.
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Like me
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Selvec Darkon wrote:
<snip> The issue is that a LOT of the time it's not a fun conflict, as most PVP conflicts end with something dodgey or unfair happening. Such as people not giving time to set hostile, people ganging on someone, people spaming hips, people getting killed in one hit via dev. It all leaves a VERY bad taste in peoples mouths, and it causes the conflict to not be fun in the slightest.
I tend to complain because of this and if I cannot find an agreement with the player(s), I end up dragging a DM into the discussion. Shame on me, I know, and oftentimes I end up apologizing profusely for that. >.<
Mostly, from what I noticed though, my opinions of "way out" and "RP" differ from that of other people. For instance, I think that an IC speech of "I am just passing by" and actually RPing passing by and not staying, is a sufficient IC reason to avoid possible PvP.
To some, that is not enough, and they keep walking after your character asking to stop and if your character did not stop because.. well, he is just passing by.. they then attack without hostiling.
Miscommunication ensues: they were wanting to RP with you and not PvP you. But because they did not communicate the intent OOC and their IC action was perceived as.. say.. bullying, hells break loose.
I think the use of OOC communication informing your intent here is only polite. Especially if there is any perceived OOC tension rising. In my case, when I am not wanting to enter that kind of RP or PvP, I tend to say OOC to please let me go because I am not in the mood for such RP. But not everyone will yield to that even if your character is not acting hostile. And yet, I cannot fault those people for ignoring that plea because they are acting in character. Or, if I am the one threatening to start PvP, I quickly send a Tell to the player involved saying something like "Fret not, this will not necessarily end in PvP. Let us RP first." All the times I used this kind of approach, it avoided a lot of frustration, headache and bad blood from all involved, whether or not there was PvP at the end of it.
Am I a Carebear? Maybe. Sometimes, though, helps thinking that perhaps that person just logged on to have fun after a bad day and they are there to do something else to keep their mind away from issues (even IC issues). IC, there will be a problem because you might be breaking character and thus making the others doing the same. But I fail to see where there could be a problem to let it go this time.
People need to remember that some ideas of what could be fun, will not match your idea of what could be fun and vice-versa. OOC communicating that and letting them go even if it would be against your character's roleplay will avoid frustration and OOC heated arguments.
And I am not stainless. I admit to having my share of OOC issues in some PvP encounters.
Most of the times, though, I think that things end up fine. Especially if after the RP/PvP there is that OOC tell thanking you for the RP.
I do not tend to hold grudges. But if I am in a situation of PvP when I think something is not being fair and I try to clarify with the player in question, if the player is polite and understanding, things do end fine. But if the player starts calling you a whinner, being sarcastic, being nasty in any degree to you in Tells or even //OOC, then I end up holding a grudge to that player.
So, Pridegaming and Carebear can be avoided.
I think you just need to be OOC polite to each other. Especially, again, if you perceive that there is some level of OOC tension rising.
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"Moving on" with your character instead of sticking around for a hostile encounter sends a very clear message. If they keep following you, then they are the ones who didn't get it. Keeping on walking is already an "out". Unless the people you avoided were actually guarding a spot or trying to prevent people from moving past. In that case, you could always walk towards where you came from.
"Moving on" with your character instead of sticking around for a hostile encounter sends a very clear message. If they keep following you, then they are the ones who didn't get it. Keeping on walking is already an "out". Unless the people you avoided were actually guarding a spot or trying to prevent people from moving past. In that case, you could always walk towards where you came from.
Usually, where I'm attempting to roleplay patrolling of a territory, my character's role is to push out invaders in that territory. Sometimes, people see that as "hogging a hunting ground", but they forget that you're not specifically there for hunting but you do kill monsters in your zone that you're trying to secure for X purpose. I also tend to roleplay my characters living in the wilds and patrolling there. To the city going PC, it is a "hunting ground", to the wilderness character, it is "homerange".
This simple misunderstanding of purposes for being in an area, causes OOC conflicts. My character is there to stop your goblin entering the area, my character has approached from the other way. Hyperthetical goblin says //"hey, you stole my hunting ground". I then state, //"no, i'm on patrol and you're in what we consider our territory". The trouble here being, the two parties are there for completely different reasons. I'm yet to work out an amicable solution to this, they insist "they were there first", but, given you're not there specifically for hunting, other than to hunt them, OOC conflict occurs. They then go on about "we have no right to push them out of a hunting zone". It kills -any- roleplay dead. I wish I knew the best way of dealing with this situation as its happened quite a few times.
It seems the "hunting zone" rules are causing legitimate issues with roleplay. So my question is, do the hunting zone rules take precedence over roleplay/patrol rp/IC conflicts over territory or vice versa?
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
I don't really believe that I can encourage anyone anymore, not after Budly.
Now, now, Yoss... Budly was a special case. Don't beat yourself up over it.
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The hunting ground rules I personally do not like, it is totally anti RP and this is supposed to be a RP server. If two parties meet in a area then there should be no OOC talk of we was here first, who cares, so what, RP it out. If each group is there to rid the threat of spiders then so be it, both have a common goal, if one is on patrol and the other party is not something against that patrol then go hunt as the others patrol, if they are against each other then let the RP begin over that conflict and forget about the hunting there all together, RP should take precedence.
As far as just walking away, if someone yells stop, hold, or whatever then usually there is a good IC reason for it. Walking away just because you want to avoid a situation too is non RP, just stop, see what they want, deal with it in a IC way. Most times you will find you still get to walk away after the encounter, perhaps the way you was going or perhaps you have to go another way, again that is all a part of the RP. Godo will most times follow you for great distances in stalking you, in the hopes of trying to rob you, I am not out to kill anyone just out to create RP for me as well as the ones I am stalking.
Most people come to a RP server to RP, accept that and try to go along with it if you can.
So my question is, do the hunting zone rules take precedence over roleplay/patrol rp/IC conflicts over territory or vice versa?
If people don't want to RP but grind, why not just let them?
So if I'm claiming the crags (hypo situation) as a group who are opposed to the very existence of drow, and a party of six underdarkers hops up... I'm supposed to ,let them grind on? ssch. Yeah. Whatever!
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Xaviera wrote:
Yossarin wrote:
I don't really believe that I can encourage anyone anymore, not after Budly.
Now, now, Yoss... Budly was a special case. Don't beat yourself up over it. :wink:
I sympathize heavily with Yossi here. I was one of those that always tried to understand or calm him down.
All to no avail. >.<
Even if it is a special case, it was ~very~ overwhelming and very draining.
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I think a good deal of the any "pridegaming" fallout comes from players wanting their characters to be 100% as cool as we imagine them to be. And by that, I mean never backing down, never getting hurt, never getting killed, and never loosing.
Take for instance a lv 5 paladin and some group of less-than-good epic PC's that have set up some sort of pay to get through blockade. When the palading comes to this crossing, he is given the option of paying the toll to get through, turning around(and finding another way around), or the favorited option of whenever good comes across evil, PvP. The first two could be considerd the "outs" in what could turn into a PvP situation, however, due to whatever reason, the pally player does not want their character to back down, or turn tail, as it's often percieved that as a paladin, you should never do either, even when it makes sense and many good gods would go "hey, preserve yourself." So PvP ensues, the pally gets squised, and he cries griefing sometimes.
In truth, if player had felt that their character has the juevoes where they'd never back down no matter how bad the odds, then they should be fully ready to lose against said odds, if that's what happens. For a character to ICly think that and be courageous, they would have already done so, most likely, but felt that if they lose, they loose having fought the good fight. There's an excerpt from The Art of War that I believe goes "Go into battle accepting death as an option, and you shall live. Go into battle afraid to die, and you certainly shall." Seems very paladiny no less.
Anyway, to reccap, sometimes people want "outs" that aren't so much "outs" as winning all the time and never having the will of another character enacted on theirs. Such is unavoidable at sometimes though, and sometimes one just has to accept that his character is just as much a part of the other's story as the other's is of his. We all share a server after all. But if someone really doesn't want to RP something, or come into a situation where they'd have to make a choice that they'd rather not have in their character's story here on Amia, there's no shame in sending a Tell saying so. Something as simple as "Hey guys, my char's pretty new here, and still very stubborn even aginst all odds. I don't exactly want them getting beat up first day here on the Isle because of that, you mind if I say I passed through before you got set up?" works fine too.
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xordae wrote:
"Moving on" with your character instead of sticking around for a hostile encounter sends a very clear message. If they keep following you, then they are the ones who didn't get it. Keeping on walking is already an "out". Unless the people you avoided were actually guarding a spot or trying to prevent people from moving past. In that case, you could always walk towards where you came from.
I was in two different situations, with different PCs I have. And I got different opinions from two different DMs.
It was a blockade-like situation, in both cases. However, when I appeared I was really only wandering about and was not going to stay. And I had both of my characters say they were just passing by and then, indeed, I did just that - both areas were different areas, but both were crossroads, so, I thought it was okay to assume that I could, indeed, just pass by if emoting such.
In a case, a DM said it was fine. In another, the other DM said it was not.
EDIT: This is something that might also create some level of frustration, this uncertainty because not all DMs have the same opinion. But, it is as Tormie said, they are only humans.
But so are the players and OOC talks will cut rightaway any possible OOC issues that could rise or could have risen.
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I remember a time not so long ago when Amia had a lot less rules and a lot less problems (lol, problems) Back then if someone stole your area you put a boot in their arse. Sometimes they came back with friends, sometimes they didn't. Big whoop. I liked Cordor better when it was full PvP. Gave wise guys no place to hide, if someone didn't like it they could leave. Amia is much better off IMO when their DMs aren't burdened by petty problems between players.
A DM getting involved is like divine intervention and let me tell you, it sucks being on the receiving end. I got so mad in one instance that I got myself banned. IMO, lets stop empowering crybabies and let the DMs focus on important non-petty stuff for a change.
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I remember a time not so long ago when Amia had a lot less rules and a lot less problems (lol, problems) Back then if someone stole your area you put a boot in their arse. Sometimes they came back with friends, sometimes they didn't. Big whoop. I liked Cordor better when it was full PvP. Gave wise guys no place to hide, if someone didn't like it they could leave. Amia is much better off IMO when their DMs aren't burdened by petty problems between players.
A DM getting involved is like divine intervention and let me tell you, it sucks being on the receiving end. I got so mad in one instance that I got myself banned. IMO, lets stop empowering crybabies and let the DMs focus on important non-petty stuff for a change.
I'm certainly in favour of "wild west" type towns, where there are no laws and no existing Government cracking down on anything. Grond on Arelith was like that, I remember my first day there, I created my character, mouthed off to an epic and got walloped instantly. My character didn't mouth off after that. Might was right.
Cordor was changed because its the starting city. Its no longer the starting city for many, so it probably doesn't matter as much anymore.
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No, it absolutely does. PvP Cordor is a nighmare. Can't imagine how you old people think it was 'good'. You had to have Death Ward and GS up to just walk through the city or 2 SDs and a mage wailed and gated in 3 balors and started wreaking havoc. Hell, they did it ANYWAYS. Oh boy, Mander hellballed again and a dozen people are dead. "Woo." Death came at any time and any moment, in Cordor. It was not fun.
Mander.
Drem.
"Random Pissed Off Evil Sorc."
Crimsonist.
Meepo.
Higgar.
List goes on.
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Last edited by TormakSaber on Mon, Oct 19 2009, 4:56 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Of the two in spite of my frustrations when I played a guard, I do prefer the current Cordor, as it makes more sense then examples like Tormak cited, involving Mander doing things that'd turn the city into a godsbedamned crater.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
As much as I'd like to see Cordor blown up...like really, just blown up and gone for a week or two.. it does have the advantage of giving at least one place on the island where you really don't have to worry about a fight between epics breaking out at any given moment and getting blown up/killed in the crossfire.
There are plenty of "wild west" towns where you can get away with blowing up stuff... in plain sight, no less. Like Wharftown. Got involved in a DM plot, pretty much blew up half a tavern's dining area when one of my chars and his agents got in a barfight with some yokels. And was pretty much able to walk out of town.
Just get out of the hub towns if you want something a little more "lawless" and want get away with punching someone in the face without getting 10 lawknights up your rear.
I wouldn't exactly call Wharftown a "Wild West Town".
How about Uhm. Or Chillwyck. You know, Chillwyck? That place we added specifically because players wanted a place with no guards? A place they could 'take over' and fight over? That 'king of the hill' thing you wanted so bad? The no hold barred place?
Oh, right, no one goes there.
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Dunno if it has no guards now. When Disco saw that no one was using it at all despite the huge clamor for it, he started utilizing it for things. No use having a pointless area.
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Before going to the Salandrans during the plague plot, Auron was hiding there. >_>;;
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TormakSaber wrote:
Dunno if it has no guards now. When Disco saw that no one was using it at all despite the huge clamor for it, he started utilizing it for things. No use having a pointless area.
Uhmm we have to know it exists first?
"I want a present"
"Ok you can have it, but I'm not going to tell you where it is, you have to search the Whooole house for it"
*2 weeks later*
"Guess you didn't find it huh? ...oh well no sense wasting it I'll just give it to someone else."
--
..or in this case it might actually be.
*hides random present...hopes someone looks for it, no one finds it, does something else with it*
-
...fair?
Not really.
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Last edited by Azrael on Mon, Oct 19 2009, 17:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber wrote:
No, it absolutely does. PvP Cordor is a nighmare. Can't imagine how you old people think it was 'good'. You had to have Death Ward and GS up to just walk through the city or 2 SDs and a mage wailed and gated in 3 balors and started wreaking havoc. Hell, they did it ANYWAYS. Oh boy, Mander hellballed again and a dozen people are dead. "Woo." Death came at any time and any moment, in Cordor. It was not fun.
Mander. Drem. "Random Pissed Off Evil Sorc." Crimsonist. Meepo. Higgar. List goes on.
I liked it, because I was such a badass powerbuilder guard I could keep it in control. It was a motivating challenge.
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TormakSaber wrote:
Yes, a town where you have to be a sorc/paladin/monk to WALK THROUGH TOWN in awesome.
No.
More of a silly example. However, having active PC guards tends to make that kind of areas quite pleasing. Players can act more freely and guards get a rewarding duty. Now that the influx of clueless people and or cheaters has gone greatly down, I would bet a PvP Cordor would be much easier to handle.
Note: I have not stayed in Cordor more than a few minutes in ages, so my view of how it is or would be right now is limited.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
Okay, so now you have a town where we've force rebuilt every PC guard into sorc/paladins because this is the only way to effectively control the populace of wannabes who want to kill Cordor every day.
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TormakSaber wrote:
Okay, so now you have a town where we've force rebuilt every PC guard into sorc/paladins because this is the only way to effectively control the populace of wannabes who want to kill Cordor every day.
You are exaggerating even more than I do. Anyways. We are kind of derailing this.
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Quote:
sorc/paladins
I was always curious of what they were made up of. I'm guessing they were given a nice little steroid tablet daily for around twenty years and turning into a monster of destruction that can obliterate a small place like Bendir Dale with a snap of the fingers.... Overpowered NPC guards FTW!
I'm still scared of the Ultrinnan Guards, dead or not... >.>
It's funny really about this whole bar fight talk stuff now, because I rarely see much fighting going on on the surface cities since there aren't any guards that couldn't Dev-crit with a DC of 50. Not that I'm complaining, I just hope I don't get an arrest warrant some day in Cordor.
Kill Cordor? Noooo! That's the only place in the whole of Amia that has prostitutes! And a Temple of the Goddess pleasure lady! ....Yeah, I can tell some of you are rethinking your actions about it. ^.^
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Azrael: Um, Chillwyck has been in since last December. That's over 10 months. It has never been a secret, and it was added (or left empty) because of there was a loud demand for areas PCs can run.
There's been plenty of time, it's an area in a public region, along a road you practically have to travel on, and there are even signposts pointing to it.
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Think it's the fact that none told us the place is free for the taking. For all people knew it was another town protected by invisible npc's or deux ex powers and practically untouchable like the rest of amia.
You can't just toss in a town and expect people to figure out that it's intended to be fought for without letting them know that's what it's there for. Now that's it out though, I expect people to go wild over it, so yay.
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Azran wrote:
Think it's the fact that none told us the place is free for the taking. For all people knew it was another town protected by invisible npc's or deux ex powers and practically untouchable like the rest of amia.
You can't just toss in a town and expect people to figure out that it's intended to be fought for without letting them know that's what it's there for. Now that's it out though, I expect people to go wild over it, so yay.
Agreed.
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would help.. besides I thought Huggling was an insult here? har har.
I'm guessing they were given a nice little steroid tablet daily for around twenty years and turning into a monster of destruction that can obliterate a small place like Bendir Dale with a snap of the fingers.... Overpowered NPC guards FTW!
Not that I'm complaining, I just hope I don't get an arrest warrant some day in Cordor.
