So, our twinking rules are weird... Perhaps, who knows? Who can give me a version that's better worded (this includes 'short'), doesn't generate more overhead, and has the same result?
Twinking: Receiving gear that you could equip or use later, but which you have not done anything to earn.
Characters should only receive such items from another character if they have earned a favour through events instigated by roleplaying.
I see little point in rewarding someone's services with something they could attain normally, though.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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IronAngel wrote:
I see little point in rewarding someone's services with something they could attain normally, though.
Some items can be particularly hard to get to, or not accessiable to low levels but be within' the level range. I see these are items to be rewarded with, or a surplus quanity of items, such as magic scrolls or potions, that couldn't be gained in such quanity without much effort.
Otherwise, you'd ask a DM if it's okay. Being that it's only a few situations where a low level could offer services to a high level, it shouldn't come up to often.
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I used to reward PCs with a lot of gold for political services etc. all the time, when I played drow. The stuff I'd reward you for is generally unrelated to levels.
I guess it's the easiest thing ever, if there happens to be a DM about. If you ask me, I'll approve almost anything if it's IC-motivated. Sucks if you don't realize this, or there's no DM around, though. In that case, I'd just do it, screenshot it and PM a DM immediately. RP shouldn't be on hold because of such OOC formalities.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Not being sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, the sidebar information on twinking still states "(...) gifts given ICly should not generally be worth more than 20k GP" by the way.
I don't understand where the selling thing comes into play with twinking and the selling to lowbies. If they have the gold (I'm not even going into item trade, since I've discovered what a useless position that is to have unless it's one Sure Strike for another, and even then...) how is it considered twinking at all? They aren't getting an item for free, or "undeserved" assuming they came by their gold by good ol' honest grinding, or what-have-you. Assuming legitimate circumstances, there is no exploit or unfair advantage they have over anyone else of their level; they decided to build up enough money to be able to buy stuff they can't even use until the same level as everyone else.
I don't see what it has to do with anything, either; trades are not gifts, even if they may appear asymmetrical. I'd never apply twinking limits to honest purchases. It gets somewhat unclear when the payment is immaterial, such as doing some kind of a dangerous task, but I generally wouldn't label that under twinking, either.
Should you ask a DM anyway? Probably. Do you have to? The rules don't explicitly state so.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Oct 16 2009, 12:01 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
LetumLux wrote:
Not being sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, the sidebar information on twinking still states "(...) gifts given ICly should not generally be worth more than 20k GP" by the way.
That has been brought up, and that isn't the rule anymore (which I had no notion of until Tormak mentioned it).
Edit: Dammit ! I just recognised the title as "Stink, Stank, Stunk" from the Grinch that Stole Christmas, and have it stuck in my head.
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Okay. Everything else, like item exchanges, are blanketed under "DM supervision" then? (For example, trading items that may not have GP value but have value to one of the character; i.e. blank scrolls and BoT pages for a wizard.)
Yurell wrote:
LetumLux wrote:
Not being sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, the sidebar information on twinking still states "(...) gifts given ICly should not generally be worth more than 20k GP" by the way.
That has been brought up, and that isn't the rule anymore (which I had no notion of until Tormak mentioned it).
I know. That was a call for an update to the page with outdated information.
I've gotten into rewarding lowbie characters with heal kits, since it is effectively the same as giving them money and exp, but they have to kill stuff themselves to get the money instead.
Another, less talked about (but potentially more significant problem) is OOC knowledge.
My first char I ended up with about 200k at level 10, because I simply had no idea where to buy gear from. There are semi hidden places such as Tarkuul, winya, zanshibon and the bard shop (this one is especially important for its +4 full plate). Once you've played a few times and learn of these places, it gives you a significant advantage when making new characters.
Okay. Everything else, like item exchanges, are blanketed under "DM supervision" then? (For example, trading items that may not have GP value but have value to one of the character; i.e. blank scrolls and BoT pages for a wizard.)
No, I meant: a transaction in which you give something in return for what you get, is a trade. It is not a gift, and therefore it is not "twinking." Of course a lowbie can purchase high-end gear from other PCs if he can afford it.
The rules speak about "giving" and "donating." Unusual trades are something the DMs "suggest screenshotting." Twinking is specifically giving something for free. Getting something in return, be it gold, items or even services, is a trade. Rewards should remain reasonable regardless, of course.
The rule is in everyone's journal, so everyone can come to this conclusion on their own. DMs don't have any hidden standards that aren't mentioned in the rules that would incriminate someone who went by what is written.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
An usual trade would then include an transaction like trading items with GP value that are a few levels above the current level of one of the characters for things with no intrinsic GP value, correct?
I suppose so. In cases that would be classified as twinking were it not for the trade, "DMs suggest screenshotting." We don't demand screenshotting, so you're not breaking any rules if you don't. But I guess it's easier on both parties if you do. It's never technically twinking if you get something (remotely reasonable) in return, though. By remotely reasonable, I mean something more than 1 gp or a pat on the shoulder.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Some may disagree, but it's what the rules explicitly state. (I don't know what they said before they were somewhat recently updated in the journal, though.)
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Just a think that I knew Veh'dra did, and that were i running a faction would do is quite simple. I keep my old gear on my character, and dole it out to up and comings in my ranks when they succeed, or they seem to be struggling.
This might mean that I'm giving Jaluk vonJalukson a 24k suit of armour, but if he worked for it by Bringing back some information of massive value, providing a decoy or whatever, He deserves a suitable reward, regardless of whether he's level 15 or level 25 or level 5!
Of course, rewards would be proportionate to the awardee. No epic gear for the level 5 guy since he'll not need it for another 20 levels. But if I give the level 15 something he can use in a level's time that'll help him out massively, am I justified? I think I am. It's not twinking, it's rewarding player actions - IC actions.
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Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
But if I give the level 15 something he can use in a level's time that'll help him out massively, am I justified? I think I am. It's not twinking, it's rewarding player actions - IC actions.
If you read the rule posted twice now in the topic... anything within 2 levels is fair game. Ergo a level away is fine.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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I think you should think about the punishments not the rulz. How many good players did we loose because of this complete striping of all items who did not come back like Mago?
They're cheaters. 1: I don't care about coddling cheaters and exploiters, 2: It was their choice to leave, not ours. They could have stayed and EARNED their gear.
If you don't want to play fair, then good riddance, as far as I am honestly concerned. It's like the dude that fudges dice rolls at the PnP table. Everyone knows you do it, just a matter of how long until you get called out and tossed out of the game or forced to stay in line.
EDIT: And to my knowledge? None. They all come back when their heads cooled off and the ones who don't were the unrepentant exploiters anyways, for the very large part.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
There's no special group of people who're "cheaters."
I wager every single player on Amia (at least if you've been here more than a few weeks), DMs included, is a cheater, rule-breaker, and a real-life criminal. I've broken the rules, Tormak has broken the rules. We're all just people who sometimes, intentionally or unintentionally, break the rules or the law, or act dishonest. No need to label people and treat them any differeent because of that. It's actions we punish, not people known as "cheaters."
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
If Amia uses item level restrictions, doesn't that kind of remove the problem of twining? Even if you give a newb a +5 sword of doom, he won't be able to use it till he gets to the appropriate level anyway.
Yes. Except the sword might be sold, which gives you gold to equip yourself.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
I'm bored. When I log on, I mean. There's a ton of new players that I simply do not know, and I'm not necessarily the best at just walking up to people in a game or not, and start conversing.
I just realized that. And that's the main reason I don't feel like logging on much anymore, I think.
no idea if anyone else is experiencing the same, but if they are, then this is one of those cases where a massive, all incompassing event could do wonders. Shake people together forcefully, form new friendships and alliances, new enemies, new internal struggles, and it could make things blossom again.
No no, I'm not demanding anything, and I'm aware that it's not the team's responsibility to make sure that each and every one of us have fun all the time, but I do think that a big one, war or whatever, could raise the numbers again. I know it's a lot more likely that I'll log on if there's people on that I know and love playing with!
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Lots are happening in Ultrinnan, Danny! Make a drow, if only temporary. :P
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
It gave me a warm fuzzy feeling I think one of the staff once asked me why my level 5 toon had 3 spider webbing bags and when I told him it resulted in a LoL followed by whether I knew which player it was.
i mean, since people obviously trade like that, it is very possible for a low level char wandering around to get some decent stuff, having literally "just found it on the floor".
What is one to do if they see stuff lying on the floor, just leave it?
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Avidgamer wrote:
That raises an interesting dilemma however...
i mean, since people obviously trade like that, it is very possible for a low level char wandering around to get some decent stuff, having literally "just found it on the floor".
What is one to do if they see stuff lying on the floor, just leave it?
I'd suggest picking it up and informing a DM ASAP. If you're lucky, they may let you keep it, if not at least it was worth a sot, and you thoroughly stuffed over the person who was cheating.
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i mean, since people obviously trade like that, it is very possible for a low level char wandering around to get some decent stuff, having literally "just found it on the floor".
What is one to do if they see stuff lying on the floor, just leave it?
We can tell if it was muled by the founder or not without questioning, and if it wasn't, then it's time for some questions about the origin.
But folks, please don't think you can get away with lying. We likely notice if it was bags of stuff "dropped" by a player you play with very often, and then it's a bit suspicious. Just be honest about it. I also find it quite poetic justice for another lowbie to find someone's muling stash, so in the end it's a good thing to pick it up, methinks.
I remember this one memorable case where the muler complained on the DM channel about his stash being discovered by someone else, asking me to punish the thief... he was in for a surprise, which he would have avoided, had he read the rules.
_________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."
New player here, I looked at the mod a few weeks ago then RL intervened. ..got some time again. I see some things that are a big encouragement (playerbase, active factions) but also some serious concerns from playing ingame a bit and looking at the forums.
Amia looks to be a really large time investment with a long leveling grind if you don't have pre-made parties ready to go...and leveling solo doesn't seem to be feasible. No it's not Arelith slow, but still a pretty big obstacle to a new player. This wouldn't be nearly as much an issue if it wasn't for my second concern.
Reading the newer forum posts....raises some serious concerns about DM events here. They sound incredibly railroaded.....players not been able to fight uber NPCs or some disease but needing to find the one "approved solution". I'm all for consequences, but forcing players into "non-combat" solutions is every bit as bad for RP as some uber monster that only the best power builds are capable of hitting. I get even more concerned seeing posts by staff that "Deus Ex Machina" are alright to use in plots, really both these scenarios make me feel the actions my character takes won't matter.
Last edited by serith on Mon, Oct 19 2009, 2:22 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Reading the newer forum posts....raises some serious concerns about DM events here. They sound incredibly railroaded.....players not been able to fight uber NPCs or some disease but needing to find the one "approved solution". I'm all for consequences, but forcing players into "non-combat" solutions is every bit as bad for RP as some uber monster that only the best power builds are capable of hitting. Reading posts by staff saying "Deus Ex Machina" are alright to use in plots flat out is even worse.
This is absolutely untrue. I'd like to see topic posts and references.
Quote:
Amia looks to be a really large time investment with a long leveling grind if you don't have pre-made parties ready to go...and leveling solo doesn't seem to be feasible. No it's not Arelith slow, but still a pretty big obstacle to a new player. This wouldn't be as big an issue if it wasn't for my second point.
You can solo 3-30 in under a week if you tried.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
TormakSaber wrote:
Quote:
Reading the newer forum posts....raises some serious concerns about DM events here. They sound incredibly railroaded.....players not been able to fight uber NPCs or some disease but needing to find the one "approved solution". I'm all for consequences, but forcing players into "non-combat" solutions is every bit as bad for RP as some uber monster that only the best power builds are capable of hitting. Reading posts by staff saying "Deus Ex Machina" are alright to use in plots flat out is even worse.
This is absolutely untrue. I'd like to see topic posts and references.
S/He's probably mentioning the posts were people mention the plague event in Ultrinnan. It is that thread about DM event, from which the DC Discussion was split.
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
TormakSaber wrote:
I'll wait for them to post themselves instead of assuming.
One reason why I did not link the thread(s) to my post. :P
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
Nobody with any sense would want to level from 3 to 30 in a week. What the hell is the point in missing all the content, missing out on fun interactions with party members and random passers-by, missing out on character development, just to get to the end of teh road and then try and figure out what it was all for?
Evidently the point is so that you can be a miserable loner with no real idea who their character is, never mind anyone else's.
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
serith wrote:
From what I recall of the newbie mobs (like goblins and kobolds) they generally spawn in mixed groups of 5-6. Don't see these as been soloable by appropriate level even with a summons out (were barely doable 2 pcs with summons, depending on attack rolls). Sewers were mostly similar numbers/issues.
Could be entirely possible for an experienced veteran with the right classes to solo that fast to 30. This isn't knowledge newbies have however....and the general vibe I got was that this server was designed with party leveling in mind.
I am not sure if finding a party in your timezone is easy.
But, anyway, yes, Amia was not made to be solo'ed. The ones who solo the areas are veteran players or players who are new to the server but have experiences of class builds from previous servers.
You should be fine if you find a decent group. It does not need to be balanced class-wise, though it would help better. Sometimes, you only need some strategy. Make sure to use the landscape to aid with that.
EDIT: Erm... was the post I just quoted, erased?
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
I PMed a few examples of posts, but I was referring to the Ultrinnan plague event as well as other discussions related to player numbers and DM events. If things have changed or never were as those threads presented that's a very good thing.
In terms of soloing to 30 in a week, from the new player perspective it doesn't seem possible. Goblins spawn in groups of 5-6, same with kobolds, mostly sewers also seem close to the same. That been said I'm sure veterans know which classes/areas will let them solo to 30 in a very short span of time.
Selmak:
Some people prefer to play higher level characters and have a clearly developed idea of what they want to do when they get there. To me having a lower level character on a server of mostly 30s is not fun.
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