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soundofastream
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 Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:14 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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First, some ground rules for this possibly emotive but very interesting thread:
1. No specific incidents
2. Spirit of learning from each other
3. No flaming, blaming or otherwise, this discussion is about improving RP, NOT about continuing your ongoing gripes or saga's against other players or DMs. I don't want to see it, period.
4. I don't want to see this thread locked, so keep it clean, civil and in the spirit of the learning off each other as friends, leave your baggage at the door!
Now with that aside, lets look at what it is:
The concept is a very simple one:
Whenever power (XP, Gold, Items, Hunting Zones) and pride (not being graceful when you lose in PvP, sending tell hells to other players, not wanting to engage in PvP despite the situation calling for it, whinging to DMs because they didn't make an event easy to you) get in the way over and above the RP and IC consequences, that is Pridegaming.
Powergaming also means joining a hunting party, when your character's outlook would clearly not join in. Paladin's with tiefling's, etc...
The fact is, we all have engaged in this to a greater or lesser extent. Many people don't even realise that they're doing it. Its a bit like Climate Change, we're all sinners here.
So here's the challenge of this discussion thread, how do we reduce this form of gaming on this server in order to create a culture change? I think this is the single biggest cause of a lot of the problems we're facing on the server, so, rather than shy away, come on, lets deal with it?
Discuss, stay civil or Tormie will implement his lock key....of that I have no doubt. 
Aims of the discussion are:
1. Explore concepts of power and pridegaming
2. Find solutions to change the culture away from that to enhance everyone's RP and fun and cut down on the people leaving because their pride was hurt.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:15 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this topic. It appears to boil down to :In this topic, I tell people how to RP. If you don't RP like this, you're powergaming/pridegaming".
Anyways, my contribution: Don't be afraid of the DMs. Don't shy from conflict ICly just because a DM is involved. Don't give up just because a DM PC is on the other side and you think it's worthless to go on. Our PCs are on the exact same level as yours. They can die. They can lose. They do so, often. Don't run from RP simply because a DM PC gets involved in some form or another, on 'your side' or on 'the other side'.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Lally
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:20 AM |
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Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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For the record, I don't think either of those things are the biggest problem the server has.
_________________
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:20 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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TormakSaber wrote: I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this topic. It appears to boil down to :In this topic, I tell people how to RP. If you don't RP like this, you're powergaming/pridegaming".
Not really. There's no RP that is scientifically better than others. Its about how to manage conflict better and dealing with the root causes of most conflicts on the server, which to me, is pridegaming. Its NOT about who RPs like an RP king.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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LordAzack
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:21 AM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
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Something I would like to classify as Powergaming...
Your in a hunting party, and some loot drops. Instead of saying ic what the order is, it is done ooc, in party chat. That disturbs me, especially when all you need do is say the same exact thing in IC chat. For example... {party} "So...Who loots first?" {Talk} "So... Who loots first?"
Or, lets say your hunting, and the area seems too easy. In party chat, all too often I hear, "so where should we go now, this is too easy". The same can be in IC chat, and actually promote ArrPee.
Thats my two cents... For now.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:22 AM |
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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TormakSaber wrote: I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this topic. It appears to boil down to :In this topic, I tell people how to RP. If you don't RP like this, you're powergaming/pridegaming".
Anyways, my contribution: Don't be afraid of the DMs. Don't shy from conflict ICly just because a DM is involved. Don't give up just because a DM PC is on the other side and you think it's worthless to go on. Our PCs are on the exact same level as yours. They can die. They can lose. They do so, often. Don't run from RP simply because a DM PC gets involved in some form or another, on 'your side' or on 'the other side'.
I think it's more supposed to be advice to help keep immersion. I'll admit that when I see aasimar paladins partying with tiefling assassins, it makes me want to log out immediately. That does not seem 'realistic' to me.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:24 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Lalelilolu wrote: For the record, I don't think either of those things are the biggest problem the server has.
Oh, and btw, this is probably the most truthful statement in the topic thus far.
Though I consider certain aspects of it to be very very serious detriments.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:31 AM |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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soundofastream wrote: Powergaming also means joining a hunting party, when your character's outlook would clearly not join in. Paladin's with tiefling's, etc...
Isn't that simply not RPing?
Also why wouldn't a paladin not be tieflings? Honest question.
Last edited by ticket on Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:31 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:31 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Lalelilolu wrote: For the record, I don't think either of those things are the biggest problem the server has.
Perhaps, perhaps not. I would raise you one level and ask all participants in this thread to work on a solutions based approach. If you feel the root causes are different, don't be afraid to say what they are.
So here's the idea, for each problem presented, I also ask that each participant offer a solution to presented problem, that way we go beyond just analysis of the problem and look for solutions.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:36 AM |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Funny thing. A lot of characters are proud or arrogant. It's real easy to go a step further and assume the player is, too. Hell, to play an arrogant character one has to get into the arrogant mindset in the first place. I don't believe in all this neat separation of OOC and IC feelings, it's a load of dung if you ask me.
So, given that, who is now "pridegaming" and who isn't? It's really hard to tell. If you are a player, and some character you run into just really strokes you the wrong way - so you hate him. Is this hate now wrong? Aren't you in the mindset of your character, and doesn't that mean that this hate might be a genuine response that you shouldn't lock away?
Now we've followed this rather simple train of thought and already we are in hairy territory. I guess my answer will be.. "Don't be so sure about the intentions of someone who is impersonating." All the rest is just grey paste... unless they're being an obvious prick. There are some clear warning signs but those, again, are hardly worth discussing because we've all got a bit of common sense in that regard.
Powergaming is joining an impossible hunting party? I did that the other day. After a bit of tell back and forth that preceded the hunt I would've felt so bad de-masking the other character that I sort of went into "meek mode". Not talking a great deal. It was hardly because I wanted to powergame, I just didn't want to be an ass. Wrong? Possibly.
This thread will still be evoking gross generalizations, I can tell you that already.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:37 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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ticket wrote: soundofastream wrote: Powergaming also means joining a hunting party, when your character's outlook would clearly not join in. Paladin's with tiefling's, etc... Isn't that simply not RPing? Also why wouldn't a paladin not be tieflings? Honest question. This really boils down to intent. What is the intention of the player? The intention of the player is to suspend their characters beliefs or find excuses to put on hold the paladin's code, in order to gain XP, Gold, etc.
IC, that may not be the case, but whenever it is, one must ask oneself. "Am I moving my character in this way in order to get goodies and finding an excuse to do so IC?"
In some cases, the answer to that is no. I'd hazard a guess that much of the time, it is a yes.
Is this simply not roleplaying their character you ask? True, but that's what the concept implies already. The concept also includes it one step further, giving motivation for the action.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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ticket wrote: soundofastream wrote: Powergaming also means joining a hunting party, when your character's outlook would clearly not join in. Paladin's with tiefling's, etc... Isn't that simply not RPing? Also why wouldn't a paladin not be tieflings? Honest question. The problem here really depends on the god the paladin follows if you ask me.
As for powergaming. It happens a lot. It can be annoying. Particularly when you hear the argument "Its necessary to get anywhere on the server." That is, as my friend and I discussed earlier today, a load of...well a load of poo. It is very easy to get by and have fun on the character with non-combat or weak-combat characters that are in no way powerbuilds. All it takes is creativity, patience, and a belief that fighting and PvP are not the only ways to have fun. Some of my favorite characters to RP with are characters with little or no combat ability.
Pridegaming, if that is what you want to call it, is going to happen. There's no way to solve it. There's always going to be some people, maybe even a lot of people, who are stubborn and want their character to always win and refuse to lose gracefully. That is just the way people are unfortunately.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:45 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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xordae wrote: This thread will still be evoking gross generalizations, I can tell you that already.
Xordae reminds us that IC/OOC separations, when in the mindset of the act, is actually a false dichotomy. However, arrogance IC or OOC, is not in itself, pridegaming.
As for trend analysis, which is what generalising can be, you inevitably talk in terms of a larger concept, rather than specifics or exceptions to the norm. That's just a weakness of trend analysis I guess and we should accept that this is not a thread that's going to find the answer to be 42.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:50 AM |
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Actually, the tiefling paladin thing comes down rather what is percieved as the generic and general perception of tieflings in an FR environment. That being that tieflings are evil spawns of demons and devils. But fact is, in the Amian environment, the normal perception of races do not exist. Rather they are just races, thats it. You can do whatever you want with them. You can have a Drow Paladin of Torm, a Duergar Cleric of Tyr and an Orc Champion of Elistraee, no matter how daft and stupid the idea is, you can have it.
Basically think of amia's races as FR races, minus the history and general perception that goes with it.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:53 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Urr... no... we are still in FR and the perceptions and history exist. NPC will sneer at you if you are a tiefling or a Drow. they charge you mor money for goods. They openly berate you.
Tieflings ARE spawn of demons and devils.
Quote: You can have a Drow Paladin of Torm, a Duergar Cleric of Tyr and an Orc Champion of Elistraee, no matter how daft and stupid the idea is, you can have it.
Not at all.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:56 AM |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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I still think your definitions of the concepts are down right wrong.
Is it not that you pride yourself as model of a good gamer and thus relegate whatever behavior you don't approve of as bad, also pridegaming in a sense?
TormakSaber wrote: In this topic, I tell people how to RP. If you don't RP like this, you're powergaming/pridegaming".
No need to coin words to describe players.
Sore losers. Whiners. Wankers. Idiots. They all suffice.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 4:59 AM |
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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TormakSaber wrote: Urr... no... we are still in FR and the perceptions and history exist. NPC will sneer at you if you are a tiefling or a Drow. they charge you mor money for goods. They openly berate you. Tieflings ARE spawn of demons and devils. Quote: You can have a Drow Paladin of Torm, a Duergar Cleric of Tyr and an Orc Champion of Elistraee, no matter how daft and stupid the idea is, you can have it. Not at all. I've seen Defenders who have been Drow Paladins of Torm. Also a Duergar who claims to worship a good god as said gods cleric. I've also seen an Orc champion of Elistraee, though that was a long shot and really disturbing.
A lot of the daft concepts exist in full force on Amia. I've had arguments with DM's before about similar daft concepts being in existance, and basically I was told that people can do these things.
Edit: I've also seen NPC's act normally to these races with no apperent change in how they speak, or how they deal with the PC.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
Last edited by Selvec Darkon on Fri, Oct 16 2009, 5:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 5:01 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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ticket wrote: I still think your definitions of the concepts are down right wrong. Is it not that you pride yourself as model of a good gamer and thus relegate whatever behavior you don't approve of as bad, also pridegaming in a sense? TormakSaber wrote: In this topic, I tell people how to RP. If you don't RP like this, you're powergaming/pridegaming". No need to coin words to describe players. Sore losers. Whiners. Wankers. Idiots. They all suffice. I'm guessing that you are directing this to me? Perhaps you have a better definition of the terms powergaming or pridegaming? I'd be happy to see alternatives definitions?
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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DolphinRacer
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 5:03 AM |
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Joined: 01 May 2009
Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
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TormakSaber wrote: Urr... no... we are still in FR and the perceptions and history exist. NPC will sneer at you if you are a tiefling or a Drow. they charge you mor money for goods. They openly berate you.
Tieflings ARE spawn of demons and devils.
Not all are evil though!
And the big problem is, a lot of people don't react to them as such as PCs. I've encountered maybe five characters who have reacted to my character on that basis who knew he was a tiefling. Granted a lot of people mistake him for blue-kin, but he does have a point that a lot of the normal rules and history are...well not dismissed so much as forgotten or ignored? It's a little frustrating because I chose a tiefer because I like playing characters who are mistrusted or treated as outcasts but I'm rarely getting that kind of RP.
_________________
Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun
Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
Kira "Penny" Sigers
Better than Boulderdash!
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ticket
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 5:08 AM |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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I can't.
For starters I have no clue what the hell pridegaming is even! I've only ever seen it used by you here in this forum. Everybody has pride. It's a good thing.
Googling powergaming shows up this wiki entry:
Quote: In role-playing games (mainly, but not exclusively), powergaming is a particular way of playing in which the emphasis lies on developing a player character that is either as powerful as possible, usually to the detriment of other aspects of the game, such as character interaction, or violates roleplaying etiquette by either taking control of other players' characters, actions, or the outcome of a game.
Again I see that as a good thing, except when it clashes with interaction/RP/other players. But the term itself is pretty neutral. There's no need to "reduce this form of gaming on this server in order to create a culture change".
Edit: My point here is that if you don't like sore losers. Call them out. Sore losers suck. Keep it simple and straight forward. No need to beat around the bush.
Did you notice a lot of Amian players are also sore losers? RPs poorly? Say it. How should we act?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 5:13 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yeah, sound is like the only person I've ever heard the terms "carebear" and 'pridegaming' from tbh and half the time I'm not sure what it means when she uses it in context. I mentally substitute "godgaming" and it seems to fit.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 6:19 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Pridegaming is where a player's out of character(OOC) pride affects their character's actions. Examples include but are not limited to:
Trying to provoke PvP (or just starting it) with weaker characters where from an RP perspective, a more creative or peaceful encounter would be more appropriate
Getting upset OOC when your character loses in character(IC) - be it a PvP episode, a merchanting deal or whatever.
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Its different to Godgaming: which is more about roleplaying characters you're not in control of (NPCs), giving your pc roleplaying powers never agreed to by DMs (telekinesis to unlock you from your prison for instance) or giving your PC names and titles not approved.
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A Carebear is:
A roleplayer who will avoid IC confrontation at all costs, to the detriment of their own roleplay and the overall quality of the server. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 6:47 AM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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I disagree... I don't think Meldrium's going to go easy on a Drow just because mechanically they are a lower level than he. tough titties - you play a drow and come across an arrogant, pride-gaming Sun Elf - you die.
I don't necessarily agree with this 'pride-gaming' idea... And this sounds like a load of faux-philosophical bollocks. RP is RP; idiots are idiots... if they want to raise dead-spam, powerbuild, or disrupt RP with party chat: let them... If it annoys you, tell them to stfu and keep it IC.
We're all here to have fun in the end, and I don't think a consistent fore-thought of looking to appease the likes of others through censorship and courteous obligation is going to be much fun for most people.
I mean, we all want to be heroes... right? In the end, we're doing this for ourselves.
_________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:02 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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lathandier wrote: I disagree... I don't think Meldrium's going to go easy on a Drow just because mechanically they are a lower level than he. tough titties - you play a drow and come across an arrogant, pride-gaming Sun Elf - you die.
I don't necessarily agree with this 'pride-gaming' idea... And this sounds like a load of faux-philosophical bollocks. RP is RP; idiots are idiots... if they want to raise dead-spam, powerbuild, or disrupt RP with party chat: let them... If it annoys you, tell them to stfu and keep it IC.
We're all here to have fun in the end, and I don't think a consistent fore-thought of looking to appease the likes of others through censorship and courteous obligation is going to be much fun for most people.
I mean, we all want to be heroes... right? In the end, we're doing this for ourselves.
I think you mistake genuine IC pride for OOC pride played out IC. In Meldrium's case, if you were to avoid conflict with a Drow, you would then be a Carebear. On the other hand, not all types of level 30s need to pvp at every opportunity and there's plenty of creative alternatives.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:09 AM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Yes I understand the vast array of creative oppurtunities for an IC action... What I don't understand, is the purpose for this thread.
Not trying being rude, just want to understand what you were seeking to achieve with it, that's all.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:21 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Conflict management, Culture Change.
To change culture:
1. Must understand the problem
2. Give carrots to create good roleplay (e.g., DCs)
3. Give sticks to discourage other sorts of activities (like pridegaming)
In its simplest form, Pride usually comes out to its full during PvP type encounters. Pridegaming, is getting in the way of all sorts of RP opportunities and reactions. For instance, if my drow gets pwned by your Meldrium, I then send you 50 million tells telling you off for it, creating OOC conflict, that's pridegaming. Being a sore loser, is just one manifestation of it.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:30 AM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Understood... And I do agree. Heck, I try to keep myself out of OOC discussions completely. I find them meandering and boring. If I wanted to talk to someone OOCly, it would be on MSN, or through tells to discuss something imperative.
I can take a loss - playing a PC that's forced to PVP (I say forced in the sense that his person and biography compels him to act as such) quite frequently, I've experienced my share of losses.
It hurts Mel-Mel's pride more than it does my own... In fact, I'm usually laughing. And if I slam, say... An outsider with a DC 40 Banishment spell and they go nuts at me OOCly... I say "L2PLAY NOOB".
I'm using my own experiences to help flesh this out a little. But it can't really be helped. informing people of the problem, sure, is the first step. But like i said; we all want to be heroes.
Pride before Honor - srsly.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:44 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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I think its a good idea to deliberately set out to lose once per month. It just keeps it real, kicks you of any pride and makes losing, that much easier to do, when you take a beating down out of the blue. I know you Meldrium, you're the sort of gamer people should be aspiring to, if what you state is true.
You set the bar a little higher, whilst not taking it too seriously. I like that.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 7:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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*Flexes*
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 8:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I'm not going to deliberately set out to lose. That breaks IC and is as OOCly driven as any other sort of metagaming.
But if I DO lose... you ca be guaranteed that it's not being affected at all OOCly.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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DarkAngelGirl
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 8:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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I think that pridegaming happens when you become so involved in your character, that you start to relate your character's success to your own. Its a matter of drawing the line, that you are not your character. Its easy to get so wrapped up in your RP that you temporarily take on the persona of your character, and you feel what your character feels. Its just a matter of catching yourself, and recognizing that you and your character are two separate entities.
Just because your character fails, does not mean that YOU fail. I've caught myself doing this on occaision. Someone insults or pisses off your character, and you start getting pissed off. That can be good, because it helps you RP your character in the appropriate manner, but you need to realize whats happening, take a step back, and seprate yourself from your character.
_________________
Active Chars:
Pylithien "Pie" Eriamyn: War Knight
Roxy: The Shiny One
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Nekhy
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 8:13 AM |
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Player
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Dunno, I think a lot of these problems could be avoided if people put an effort to being nice to each other OOCly after hostile IC situations. Like sending a tell "Hey, that was some fun conflict! Hope you had fun, too, even if you got your ass handed over on a platter. Looking forward to you doing the same to me in the future!  ". But it seems that is usually done with sarcasm, or received as sarcasm.
Not sure if that would even work, unless everybody was buddies with each other. But I can always wish.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 8:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Or maybe if there was no OOC period and everything stayed IC. No tells. No bad feelings. No seething in party chat. Just 100% IC...
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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DarkAngelGirl
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 8:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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I do hate the OOC conflicts that can arise after a nasty situation. I do think however a friendly tell never hurts. But the main issue of pridegaming is not the interaction between players, but with the individual person. You didn't lose, your character lost....so what? Its just a game. You are here to have fun, take the loss and use it to further your character advancement.
_________________
Active Chars:
Pylithien "Pie" Eriamyn: War Knight
Roxy: The Shiny One
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Nekhy
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:16 AM |
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Player
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TormakSaber wrote: Or maybe if there was no OOC period and everything stayed IC. No tells. No bad feelings. No seething in party chat. Just 100% IC...
This would be the ideal situation, but very few people manage it just like that. A lot of people claim to manage it, but then again, 80% of drivers think they're "above average" drivers. People tend to overestimate their abilities and attitudes in positive light. This is a Scientifically Proven Fact (TM). Can't be arsed to reference in a topic like this, though, given it's just a little tidbit of relevant information...
That's why precautions to remind people about these things might work.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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TormakSaber wrote: Or maybe if there was no OOC period and everything stayed IC. No tells. No bad feelings. No seething in party chat. Just 100% IC...
I believe I said this once... And someone said I was a complete idiot. They called it Extreme RPing... _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I always try my best to keep OOC communication open and friendly. I'm not my character and hate having to be a bitch to others ICly, but will do it because it is the IC thin to do.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Nekhy
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:39 AM |
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Player
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I don't think you can possibly curb all OOC from roleplay. If you ban it on the server, people will connect with each other by other means to bitch about players they don't like. I find the claims of servers that have "no OOC drama going on" a bit like Ahmadinejad claiming there's no homosexuality in Iran. It's there, somewhere, affecting actions. Perhaps in some cases it affects IC even more, because it's harder to call people out for it. Hard to say.
Whether it's better to have discussions out in the open or not, is another question. Both have their pro's and con's.
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Tysonm1
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Location: England, Lincolnshire
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I can be a meeeean son of a bitch at times IC, but OOC I can be all so sweet 'n' gentle. :3 (See background for snuggles, wuggles, smoochies, pats on bot bots, and HiPS watchfulness with girly wirlies in the locker room*Giggles!*) Powergaming, meh, I usually get fustrated at that but in the end I've learned to put up with it, even if sometimes the RP is weird. I've had one or two people say my little Shadow Dancer(Barra'Keeshe) is a powerbuild, despite him just me making him a sneaker build(who can Epic Dodge).
OOC parties are a bit meh aswell at times, depending on the mood I'm in, usually people just wanna hunt and get along with it, especially if you're buffed so hard you'll want to keep squeeze a hell of alot more in. Who wants to stand there praising Talos to the end of the bloody world during a hunt when it took you nearly half an hour to think of the proper spell slots to use and the best buffs aswell that don't last too long.
PvP.... Nah, no tactics involved, just mindless HiPS spam for me! xD
Pridegaming... Hmmm... I dunno if I've done that some time in the past, either that or I get carried away in some stuff or blardy blarr.  _________________ Quote: The Tysonm1 is a type of main battle tank designed around the old T-64 chassis using an untested armor called Spam.
Spam armor for all intents and purposes is only limited to the size of the internet.
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Tubsie
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 9:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Location: Turku - Finland
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This is just my opinion, but i see it this way:
When you join the game, you can either find some people to roleplay with by a random encounter (if there's no people in Cordor or whatever place you start in) or you can go hunting. Or both. But how can you go hunt if there's nobody around the city or they are doing something else and you wanna go? You have to find the people.
Once i was playing with my goblin and there was around 40+ players on the server, but only like 3 people were looking for party, myself included. There was around 5 people in Cordor doing something else (RPing), so basically most of them were "invisible". Sure you can send a random tell to someone who's name you recognize but thats boring. It should happen IC, and what annoys me, is that when you really want to roleplay, or hunt or both, you cant always do it IC. You have to send a tell.
If you could see which area people are in from the "Party advertiser" thingie, you could ICly go there instead of sending tell "Are you hunting? Is there a room for a lvl X?". And yes, unfortunately if you see which area people are in, you could abuse it in PvP sense, and probably RP-sense too and it would be OOC information. But at least you could make the meetings a bit more IC instead of appearing with a portal there.
So what you can do now is, you can go hunt/RP with people you already know, or just randomly muppet around and hope to see a random RP-encounter somewhere. And if it happens on the battlefield, you most likely are too low or high level for the party, or its too full etc. So what options do you have left if you dont have a RP-encounter nor hunting party? You can idle around somewhere and hope to see if someone comes around...but that could be a very long time.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 10:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Nekhy wrote: Dunno, I think a lot of these problems could be avoided if people put an effort to being nice to each other OOCly after hostile IC situations. Like sending a tell "Hey, that was some fun conflict! Hope you had fun, too, even if you got your ass handed over on a platter. Looking forward to you doing the same to me in the future! ". But it seems that is usually done with sarcasm, or received as sarcasm. Not sure if that would even work, unless everybody was buddies with each other. But I can always wish. The issue is that a LOT of the time it's not a fun conflict, as most PVP conflicts end with something dodgey or unfair happening. Such as people not giving time to set hostile, people ganging on someone, people spaming hips, people getting killed in one hit via dev. It all leaves a VERY bad taste in peoples mouths, and it causes the conflict to not be fun in the slightest.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 13:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Carebear used to be a cool word...can we use a diffrent one?
Oh yes my comment, ahem:
Falsified dm reports?...lamest of the lame.
"I didn't wana pvp..."
"Then take the pvp out"
"But I wanted to win!...but then I lost, and because I lost I therefore did not want to Pvp, dang you, it's your fault you simply being there forced it!"
"Whaat?...you shoulda took the out if you didn't want to pvp."
"But i wanted to win, I'm reporting you for (insert bent rule), and when you get in trouble then I win."
I know I'm as they say 'preaching to the choir' but,
Please don't get back at people OOCly for loosing pvp ICly...try keeping it IC, getting back at them IC, and IC only.
Ta-da! *poofs*
 _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Valve
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 16:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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Nekhy wrote: Dunno, I think a lot of these problems could be avoided if people put an effort to being nice to each other OOCly after hostile IC situations. Like sending a tell "Hey, that was some fun conflict! Hope you had fun, too, even if you got your ass handed over on a platter. Looking forward to you doing the same to me in the future! ". But it seems that is usually done with sarcasm, or received as sarcasm. Not sure if that would even work, unless everybody was buddies with each other. But I can always wish. I will say with personal experience.. THIS DOES WORK!
If you play an evil character.. or a character who people will hate or is strong .. whatever.. "pridegaming" is there.. people get pissed OOC and it's HUMAN! We are not robots behind pixels on the screen. Not everyone is calm all the time.. we humans run on emotion. It's very easy for things to get out of hand. I personally have been attacked so much OOC.. it's insane. Don't belittle the person getting pissed. Afterwards, get nice OOC ... it really makes the person calm down and actually want them to play with you again because then they know it is purely just RP and nothing personal with them. I some might think this ruins RP.. but it doesn't.
edit: I just wanted to clarify.. the OOC insults where not on this server.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 16:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Why not just refuse to go OOC at all, whether you're hurt or angry or sad or happy and pleased?
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Selmak
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 17:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Knowing that PvP in NWN is what it is, I have no problem with playing cowardly or apathetic heroes. It's better roleplaying something that you can tolerate than doing something that makes you feel cheated nine times out of ten.
That and the fact that PvP encounters with people you don't know tend to be a bit one-dimensional. If someone who you frequently roleplay with knows your character (and understands what drives them, what their worst nightmare is and so on) then they can make a convincing antagonist to pit against them. It's slightly metagamey, but then why have a character who fears something if they never run into anything resembling it?
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Valve
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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Yossarin wrote: Why not just refuse to go OOC at all, whether you're hurt or angry or sad or happy and pleased?
You can do that as well and just leave other peoples opinion of you build up in anyway they wish , if that is what you want.
On this server.. I don't get much OOC chat besides the usual hunting banter. Even then I try to keep at a minimum.. unless I am not actually there IC.
My point being... if you feel like someone is going to or is taking your IC actions as a OOC insult , saying nothing at all doesn't help. Being nice and understanding that it does in fact happen and not adding fuel to the fire helps. Then next time hopefully they won't take it personally. In my experiences I find that most people think that your character reflects the player in someway.. which some of that is true.
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Halen_Van
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Tieflings are not half devils. They are the spawns of half devils/demons that were the spawns of devils and demons. Or Tieflings are the spawns of tieflings. At any rate, they may lean towards evil, but since they are not a devil, nor a Demon, they are capable of being good. Just like Aasimars aren't absolutely good.
An odd party would be a Tiefling necromancer and a Aasimar paladin. If the tiefling is not a necromancer, and say, a fighter or some other adventurering type who does not break the silence of the grave or evoke demons, etc, etc, and seems for all intents and purposes like a human with some horn-tips and a bad smell, then for what reason would an Aasimar kill him? I could see shunning based on preconceptions.
It is quite possible to be an evil Aasimar, even a necromancer one. A tiefling could become a paladin if they truely are devout beings.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Ravenousfaerie wrote: My point being... if you feel like someone is going to or is taking your IC actions as a OOC insult , saying nothing at all doesn't help. Being nice and understanding that it does in fact happen and not adding fuel to the fire helps.
Fair enough. But let's say that while I am not pridegaming, I do want to maintain a certain degree of pride and self-respect, and don't want to be a mollycoddling schmuck who has to assuage the infantile self-esteem issues of another player because they ask "Do you not like me?" when I engage only in IC conversation with them, and not OOC.
Are you suggesting I would have to demean myself by encouraging their fragile ego by...ugh...huggling them and saying, "I think the world of you. You are an excellent roleplayer, and I treasure and value any time I have to interact with you"?
I'm getting diabetes just thinking about it.
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Halen_Van
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Mmmmmmm Sugar.
I try to be nice on an ooc level even more when my characters are icly arses, arrogant, and violent. But I tend to be like that no matter the reason, and do enjoy having ooc conversations in tells while rping or while hunting.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
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BloodNAshes
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Posted: Fri, Oct 16 2009, 18:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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Quote: I'm getting diabetes just thinking about it.
...Sorry, I had to do it.
_________________
Former characters:
Dawnbringer Goodmane
Gralg Elfbane
Ukre Cobcruncher
Ug Rhalac
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