AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Amia needs a good war to spice things up a bit. A nice arbitrary, no holds barred, war. Something racial and ignorant of alignment and religion.

"Oh, you're a good human who worships the Lovely God of Hugs? Well I'm a good elf that follows the dogma of El Rightiouso de Hug, nice to meet you we should be friends... pity you're a human... CHOP!"

something like that, for about a week, would be so much fun. Imagine it DMs... you see some epic human smashing elves, spawn an elf raiding party of death and take him away to be fed to the... trees or talking horses of whatever elves keep.

War I say! WAAARR!

I'm trying to find a job. Like most of the world xD.
It's also Spring here so my willingness to play games at the moment isn't exactly massive. Enjoying the sun before the nightmare heat of summer drops on me.

I also agree with the War thing. It's been a while since Amia had a nice big clear RP event that the entire server can take part in regardless of race or religion. Last one was the horde. These intrigue events are nice and all, but people are becoming much to comfortable in their spots. When that happens, I say it's time for another horde like event. Shake things up a bit.

Bring back Wyrmhold! xD

Pfft. Open war is a hiiiigh maintenance thing.

I like my intrigue, thankyouverymuch! ... or would if people stopped trying to headbutt stone walls to break 'em down.

Intrigue can be hard too in it's own way.. I don't mind it but I'm really beginning to discover comparitive to just RPing and doing my thing, I right festively suck at intrigue.

WonWon wrote:

Pfft. Open war is a hiiiigh maintenance thing.

I like my intrigue, thankyouverymuch! ... or would if people stopped trying to headbutt stone walls to break 'em down.

I always wondered why war was never that much of a thing, but after the Black Caravan event I understood. It had a great lead up and a brilliant variety of players, but when it came to fight time it was the god damn LAG that saw my character among others, get butchered becuase our meat-sacks were receving full-out damage from the NPCs, where our guys were not even swinging their weapons in defiance. Brought me back to the old, smash the keyboard and raging days (not that their that old). >_>

It's pretty easy to notice the lack of drow from my stand-point. My heretic drow sees plenty of surface drow to hate, but he has not seen a group, if any, Llothite drow, for ages. Prehaps it is an effect of da' plague? *Shrugs*

Amia is taking a rather noticeable change in policy for some time now.

Becoming more focused on conflict and hostilities, fights break out far more often and are no longer avoidable as per the old pvp rules, and often happen unannounced. Factions and individuals keep getting away with harassing people over race or class. Powerbuilding is rampart.

There has been a constant drive to make the server more ''realistic'' and closer to real FR. Lot of requests and characters that were possible no longer are, the city of tolerance is no longer tolerant.

Then a lot of the recent dm events are frankly bs and just ruin people's rp. The plague in ultrinaan, the recent forest happenings... In most cases these events seem like deux ex machina, things happening by a predetermined path to force things along a path that the dms have decided. PC's actions rarely work out as planned, end up backfiring more often than not, and in general the DM's seem eager to screw the players over whenever they get an opportunity to do so.

I am sure the dms have noticed that most drow stopped playing once the plague hit and no resolution was in sight. Now more and more people are getting tired of the forest plot, not bothering to log on their protectors and just waiting for things to blow over.

Amia is changing, it's more about the feel than real examples though I tried to point out some of the most glaring ones, there is far more to it, most of it subtle. Attitudes, policies.

A large portion of the enstabilished playerbase thinks these changes are not for the better, hence the dismissing numbers and many leaving or moving to other servers.

Last edited by BlackDahlya on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 5:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Nikita wrote:

I am sure the dms have noticed that most drow stopped playing once the plague hit and no resolution was in sight.

Pardon, but I feel the need to step in here.

The plague was not a bad event. While the characters were all acting in character, they were the ones that, with their own actions, were making difficult trying to find a cure: trying to infect their enemies, rather than trying to find a cure. Made me think, many times, that they were not thinking the DM would take the plot further and that he would make it easier for the players to find a cure.

IC, my character did try to open the eyes of the other characters about the need to work together. OOC, I was disheartened with the attitude, but I knew that they were all acting IC when ignoring the pleas.

The plague did not ruin anything. The players that seemed to not know how exactly to act towards it.

And there were people working on a cure: one. And then later, my PC going to the surface: two.

If memory serves, the female PCs that left the research of a cure in the hands of a single PC. Of course, it was something IC to do and I do not blame the female PCs for doing what it was in their character to do.

But to leave it in the hands of only one with a busy schedule was what delayed the finding of a cure.

Oh, yes. And the DM in question is a busy person, too.

EDIT: Yes, I was among those who complained. No, I did not give up playing during it all.

Last edited by Zanthair on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 5:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.

drow players stopping playing was not a DM fault, a miscalculation perhaps, but not their fault. I, for one, wish the drow playerbase just did what they should have and actively searched for a cure. Some did, yes, but for the most part? utter failure on the side of the drow population if you ask me (and i dont absolve myself on this either).

On the bright side, I've seen some really large drow parties recently, almost as large as in the past. Many of them were newer drow players as well, with lots of lowbie drow. Perfect to help me with my rebuild

Zanthair wrote:

drow players stopping playing was not a DM fault, a miscalculation perhaps, but not their fault. I, for one, wish the drow playerbase just did what they should have and actively searched for a cure. Some did, yes, but for the most part? utter failure on the side of the drow population if you ask me.

Bah.. you said it better than I did.

Yes, I do notice that when you get factional conflict, suddenly, those being picked on, disappear rather than roleplaying their role of defending their turf or whatever.

The Grove is dead as a doornail. The Hidden Glade, are so hidden, they're practically non-existant. The Drow, Duergar, svirfneblins and others have dropped off the face of the UD.

That said, Winya is booming quite literally, the hin are doing okay. Winya has more elves than ever before.

Human's seem very popular in these days as well (more than usual).

Dwarves are slowly making a comeback.

Goblins! I see a lot more goblins, now that Godo is helping to show a good example, others see it and make goblins.

It swings in roundabouts...

Next week, Dragonkin will be the flavour of the month.

Last edited by Nikita on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 6:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Well, I think the plague plot and the more recent forest plot point at the simple truth, the kind of events the dms are running are not the kind that the players want to deal with.

The forest used to be lively, with people camping in the woods, you could regulary meet about a dozen characters of all sorts sitting by a fire near the crystal just talking.

Now a few protectors remain, and most of the happenings have to do with pvp or conflict between drow, defenders and elves.

People are ditching the forest for other places untouched by this crap, and whole factions are moving to B to escape the bs.

Is this the fault of the DMs for creating new ways to liven up the world, or the fault of the players for running and becoming scared of the events because their comfort zone is ripped from underneath them?

The forest event was quite popular, btw, though your assessment of the plague plot is, in my experience talking to Drow, unfortunately rather spot on.

TormakSaber wrote:

Is this the fault of the DMs for creating new ways to liven up the world, or the fault of the players for running and becoming scared of the events because their comfort zone is ripped from underneath them?

Both and no one. It's hard to predict this sort of thing, and how people will react, especially if each side is thinking the other is acting unreasonably.

That doesn't seem right to me Nikita. Rather from listening to what's being said. It seem's that the player's don't like to deal with events that mean they may be on the losing side.

As pointed out, lots of Winyan's exist at the moment, from what I've read (So may be a bit off), the Winyan's are on the winning side of the plot so far. As such, all the players on the losing side don't want to deal with it, and instead of making it better, ignore it.

Same with the Drow, they aren't making any headways into trying to interact with the event. A plague hitting a city would be a cause for all hostilities in the city to cease, and rather have all resources put towards finding a cure. Why the head house, and the ruling matron, hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

Players will cry and shout when they aren't shown DM attention, when they are shown attention it things aren't perfect, they stomp their feet and ignore it until it changes. A DM seemingly has to make effort into making an event work for the players, but the players also have to make effort into making an event work for them. Not everything will be handed on a silver platter.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Why the head house, and the ruling matron, hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

It's DM controlled. It's up to them how they respond to their own event. do know they did something, but I can't recall what.

Fault or not is irevelant, the effect of actions is.

Even if there is nothing wrong with the plots and people just need to learn to go with the punches, if they refuse and you keep punching, you lose players.

If you don't cater to the target audience, no matter how right or wrong their views and expectations are, they will stop coming.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Players will cry and shout when they aren't shown DM attention, when they are shown attention it things aren't perfect, they stomp their feet and ignore it until it changes. A DM seemingly has to make effort into making an event work for the players, but the players also have to make effort into making an event work for them. Not everything will be handed on a silver platter.

I must say, that is the most brilliant statement I've seen on the matter in my time of DMing.

You have to as a player trust that if things become worse for your character as a result of a storyline, that it won't necessarily be worse for you in terms of getting roleplaying.

A story where nobody experienced a problem which couldn't be overcome simply would probably be really boring. On the flipside, a story where characters work to overcome their limitations might be really interesting.

Minus the it instead of an if WonWon xD

Anyway, my personal view on why people are leaving is that it has nothing to do with the playerbase, rp or the DM's. Rather, it's people just moving on. NWN is an very old game, and many players on Amia have been playing on Amia for many years now. Things get old, you need a change of pace, and/or need to move on. Nevermind also that people have things happening at this time of the year. It's a rather busy time. It's nearing the end of the school year, it's fully spring in the southern half of the world, lots of people have birthdays around this time, and finally, christmas break is coming up.

It's a busy time of the year, so the playerbase will drop. It's just natural. Nobodies fault at all.

Nikita wrote:

Well, I think the plague plot and the more recent forest plot point at the simple truth, the kind of events the dms are running are not the kind that the players want to deal with.

The forest used to be lively, with people camping in the woods, you could regulary meet about a dozen characters of all sorts sitting by a fire near the crystal just talking.

Now a few protectors remain, and most of the happenings have to do with pvp or conflict between drow, defenders and elves.

People are ditching the forest for other places untouched by this crap, and whole factions are moving to B to escape the bs.

I don't understand your problem with conflict. Winya wants to keep the Dhaerow out of the forest, so they set up roadblocks to do so. If the Grove doesn't like it, they either negotiate or go to war with Winya. If people leave the forest to go elsewhere, because of the war or tensions, isn't that perfectly IC too? Refugee's happen whenever there's conflict, that's normal.

If you don't like it IC, react to it IC. If you are upset others are taking your picnic spot, go find a new picnic spot maybe? Just keep it IC.

The topic is about a drop in the number of players. I brought up some of the reasons, I am not going to argue if they are justified or not. Personally I find conflict undesirable and think it hurts rp, if my view is correct or not does not matter as much as that plenty share it, many of which leave or stop to bother with the issues.

Nikita wrote:

Personally I find conflict undesirable and think it hurts rp

OOC conflict does, IC conflict is RP.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Same with the Drow, they aren't making any headways into trying to interact with the event. A plague hitting a city would be a cause for all hostilities in the city to cease, and rather have all resources put towards finding a cure. Why the head house, and the ruling matron, hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

Pardon for quoting and thus repeating myself, but this is what disappointed me during all the plague plot: not the DM. But the players themselves.

Yes, I know they were all acting in character but... for Christ's sake, the city and the populace are dying! In their IC arrogance, they were right in thinking they were not being affected and thus it was of no consequence to them.

But this correct IC approach was also the wrong one, since the plot was walking slowly because only three drow (yes, I remembered another one besides me and Arith: Aly'isgar) were trying to find a cure while the others were worried about increasing the number of infected because.. "well, he is my enemy, if I am going to die he is going with me".

I made two or three IC letters hinting at the need to work together rather than.. dunno.. harm together. But they did not work.

Again, I am aware it was their IC reaction to an IC situation. They were acting as their characters would. But this attitude probably was also responsible for a slow cure.

Thus... the plot kind of stagnated, especially because the DM and the few players involved were not having matching schedules. But it was not a "deus ex machina" plot. No way. Ever! Tranny was always reading and replying my PMs, he told me to go along with my own little plot that would follow the cure... but there simply were not enough drow PCs around for it to work.

So many times I told Tranny that I needed to do something but I was not keen on asking him (and even Gers once) to possess NPCs so I could do something to kick start that little plot... plague or not, it is a fact that the number of drow players decreased greatly, and has been decreasing for the past months.

Still concerning the plague, hells, I exchanged so many PMs with Tranny, that I bet he is glad I took a break and am not bothering him anymore.

Even though I left a pending RP that I will probably not pursue anymore because the other involved player is also leaving/taking a break from the server.

If you find conflict undesireable then I suggest you cease roleplaying in any sort of Dungeons and Dragons game, because conflict is the entire point of the games.

Quote:

Fault or not is irevelant, the effect of actions is.

Even if there is nothing wrong with the plots and people just need to learn to go with the punches, if they refuse and you keep punching, you lose players.

If you don't cater to the target audience, no matter how right or wrong their views and expectations are, they will stop coming.

The target audience wants a DM event. I give it to them. It doesn't go to their exact plan. They leave and complain.

I'm not going to cater to an audience that wants t osit around and drink tea and "avoid conflict because it offends my sensibilities", sorry. I will march my goblin army in and your characters will Deal With It ICly or they will suffer the consequences for doing nothing about it. Welcome to Dungeons and dragons, where doing nothing is a legitimate decision that carries consequences.

And if you only choose to participate in RP that ends in a victory for you... then shame on you.

TormakSaber wrote:

If you find conflict undesireable then I suggest you cease roleplaying in any sort of Dungeons and Dragons game, because conflict is the entire point of the games.

Quote:

Fault or not is irevelant, the effect of actions is.

Even if there is nothing wrong with the plots and people just need to learn to go with the punches, if they refuse and you keep punching, you lose players.

If you don't cater to the target audience, no matter how right or wrong their views and expectations are, they will stop coming.

The target audience wants a DM event. I give it to them. It doesn't go to their exact plan. They leave and complain.

I'm not going to cater to an audience that wants t osit around and drink tea and "avoid conflict because it offends my sensibilities", sorry. I will march my goblin army in and your characters will Deal With It ICly or they will suffer the consequences for doing nothing about it. Welcome to Dungeons and dragons, where doing nothing is a legitimate decision that carries consequences.

And if you only choose to participate in RP that ends in a victory for you... then shame on you.

I'm gonna agree with Tormak here in princple.

While I'm not as fond of conflict as some when in the mindset of playing certain characters, I grasp it's quite real and possible my characters are going to end up in it in some form or another. I admit, I've fugged up a lot in plots, I'm still gonna fugg up in plots, whether I want to or not.

One of my recent memories of a Tormak plot that was fond (and I do have the specific describing screenshot of this) , is my Loviatarian monk trying to jump an inhuman distance to catch something as it was flying away/falling out of someone's hand. She not only did not catch it, but ended up in the bloody drink.

It, was.. fricking, cool.

Tormak you are a godsend to Amia!

Umm....when can we have a goblin army march on Winya? Can't wait!

Sorry, you edited your post later...

Quote:

Now a few protectors remain, and most of the happenings have to do with pvp or conflict between drow, defenders and elves.

People are ditching the forest for other places untouched by this crap, and whole factions are moving to B to escape the bs.

Most of the happy tree tea party crew around the Crystal were actually Hidden Glade people. They ICly chose to leave over the wolf debacle. That's why you see less in the forest.

Factions are ont moving to B to 'avoid BS' and look for places 'untouched by this crap' (DM Events are crap? Months long storylines are crap? Just what do you expect us to do up here to entertain you if not make the world alive and run cool events?), they;re moving to B because Disco specifically said "If you move to B, you get priority treatment in everything and will probably get a faction area wherever you like." He bribed them to go to B and it is working fantastically, sort of to my chagrin.

TormakSaber wrote:

<snip>they;re moving to B because Disco specifically said "If you move to B, you get priority treatment in everything and will probably get a faction area wherever you like." He bribed them to go to B and it is working fantastically, sort of to my chagrin.

He did?

Mmm... I think I will restart a Vhaeraunite faction again when I come back to play. :twisted:

Jokes aside, this made me giggle.

And reminded me that I was supposed to be in bed by now.

Damn active debates! I am so worried that it could get more pages long than I can follow when I wake up. T_T

I think I will use this post of mine for reference.

Later, folks! :oops:

DM Events aren't crap. Some people's reactions to them are Crap.

Last edited by 555444333 on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 7:04 AM, edited 1 time in total.

True, but sometimes even a crap reaction can be justified, as we discussed above. The drow are very insular, very unwilling to trust, so dropping something that requires them to pull together into their laps could have been a brilliantly amusing, interesting plot.

Instead? We got people hiding in houses, locking the doors and sticking their fingers in their ears.

Though your argument there were only 3 drow doing stuff Dahlya is flawed and fallacious, I know of at least two others, who were certainly providing ancillary support if not being on your tiny, insular, isolated committee who nobody was requested to help nor was anyone brought in, in the course of RP...

Pot-kettle?

Addendum: The moral of the story? Don't sit on a plot! VOMIT it EVERYWHERE likeyou've just necked a 2 liter of vodka!

And like DM events, people might not react how you want them to to your RP... so If the drow don't all hold hands, don't cut them out the loop.

I mean, we could have had competing laboratories as each mage strives for the glory of finding the cure! It could have been great sorcere RP! But no, instead we get this self-appointed, unite or die committee.

Way to kill the RP.

What you gonna do?
When guests drop in on you
We won't go away
'Cause we've come out to play.

Looks like a case of the blind leading the deaf to me
You must be bored out of your pants
Take it or leave it, we'll carry on regardless
If you don't like it you don't have to dance.

Quote:

And like DM events, people might not react how you want them to to your RP... so If the drow don't all hold hands, don't cut them out the loop.

Eas to do on accident when they just don't log in....

We're still waiting for you to suck up to us over your plague debacle. ;)

WonWon wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Players will cry and shout when they aren't shown DM attention, when they are shown attention it things aren't perfect, they stomp their feet and ignore it until it changes. A DM seemingly has to make effort into making an event work for the players, but the players also have to make effort into making an event work for them. Not everything will be handed on a silver platter.

I must say, that is the most brilliant statement I've seen on the matter in my time of DMing.

True. However, DM:s can be easily drawn to demand effort according to what they think is the only true way to react, in conditions where players might not realize this at all.

Alright...we already have established the player numbers have dropped. Now the question becomes, what do we do about it?

My suggestions are:

1. We practically need the slate wiped clean with drow. We need a really good leader, chosen by Lolth.
2. DCs may help. Throw out more cookies. I understand you mainly do it for exceptional rp but they can also be a great incentive.
3. DM events should ALWAYS have an equal oppurtunity for win or loss AND if they plan on trouncing the players, it might be good to either let them know or start forking over DCs to buy a smile.
4. At this point, pay more focus on the new players. If not, the old players will drum out the new players(ud anyways) before they get bored and leave, leaving the server with low numbers, as is the case.

We don't "plan to trounce" the players, but sometimes they really do just walk into it... to the point where it becomes continuity breaking to not deliver the beating they so direly seem to want.

TormakSaber wrote:

We don't "plan to trounce" the players, but sometimes they really do just walk into it... to the point where it becomes continuity breaking to not deliver the beating they so direly seem to want.

I disagree. A DM should always think of a way, such that these players can leave the situation in a manner that is fun for them or not place them into the situation.

Last edited by Yossarin on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 8:27 AM, edited 1 time in total.

ClockworkRed wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

We don't "plan to trounce" the players, but sometimes they really do just walk into it... to the point where it becomes continuity breaking to not deliver the beating they so direly seem to want.

I disagree. A DM should always think of a way, such that these players can leave the situation in a manner that is fun for them or not place them into the situation.

We do think of a way. And we give subtle clues pointing in that direction. But the players don't always get it, and continue cruising for a bruising. Are you saying we should destroy all believeability in the setting and the challenge by putting up a huge and obvious road sign?

EDIT: To be fair, in my own DM'ing style, I do not always think of a "way out" in advance. I honestly do not. That way, I resist the temptation to call too much attention to it. And I have a lot of faith in the players to do that work - provided I encourage you. I do not necessarily have to show you the way (because I might not even know it, either), but I reward thinking outside of the box.

And I really reward finding non-magical solutions to your problems. Some of you love to have a magical solution to your problems, always an easy out because "hey, I'm a lvl 30 magician, I can do anything I want with magic unless you're a dick and don't let me". If you take a cold, hard look at the setting, at the events around you, at the PCs in the server, at the NPCs, too, and you interact with these elements in a way that brings them to life or gives them a moment to shine while the spotlight is on you, then you've succeeded, and I'm prone to being generous.

It wouldn't hurt if players came to the DM in advance and said 'this is what we plan to do if things go badly' - it saves a DM a bit of guesswork in that regard.

ClockworkRed wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

We don't "plan to trounce" the players, but sometimes they really do just walk into it... to the point where it becomes continuity breaking to not deliver the beating they so direly seem to want.

I disagree. A DM should always think of a way, such that these players can leave the situation in a manner that is fun for them or not place them into the situation.

Nope. You dig your hole, you'd better have some rope or you're gonna starve. I learned my lesson long ago, I found out what happens when you coddle players. In my events you live or die by your own hand, and I won't pull my punches. When you win, you earned it.

That we involved you in? Are you saying, ClockworkRed, that you resent me for doing something as a DM? Rather than just letting you freeform your way through Amia?

Uzzz? Am I missing a post?

He appears to have deleted it.

Yossarin wrote:

He appears to have deleted it.

Yup, because it was stupid what i said.

TormakSaber wrote:

ClockworkRed wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

We don't "plan to trounce" the players, but sometimes they really do just walk into it... to the point where it becomes continuity breaking to not deliver the beating they so direly seem to want.

I disagree. A DM should always think of a way, such that these players can leave the situation in a manner that is fun for them or not place them into the situation.

Nope. You dig your hole, you'd better have some rope or you're gonna starve. I learned my lesson long ago, I found out what happens when you coddle players. In my events you live or die by your own hand, and I won't pull my punches. When you win, you earned it.

I did not say, let them always win. I said whatever the outcome is, the plot must be set up such that the players enjoy it. I think a good DM can set up a plot such that loosing is also fun for the players. I think an important point here is that the players have always the feeling that the plot keeps advancing and that they have a fair chance to be successful.

I just do not see a point to push any plot that nobody enjoys.

I hope I splitted this the right way... it's a bit of a knot.

The original topic is here: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42030

TormakSaber wrote:

[...] they;re moving to B because Disco specifically said "If you move to B, you get priority treatment in everything and will probably get a faction area wherever you like." He bribed them to go to B and it is working fantastically, sort of to my chagrin.

I missed this shiny bit of prose. Can you tell me which factions I have given a preferential treatment so far, and which ones I left in the cold?

Quote:

That we involved you in? Are you saying, ClockworkRed, that you resent me for doing something as a DM? Rather than just letting you freeform your way through Amia?

If that "something" involves stuff like forcing the entire drow population to be sick and start rotting away? Forcing negatives like these on pcs and then not letting them solve the situation unless they meet your random predicted
"solution"?

"You didn't ask to get sick, but now we toss this at you anyway, and since you failed to find a cure the way we planned you would, you can stay sick till you die, suckers."

Or screwing over the amia forest by declaring enstabilished routines and practices wrong destroying the place and making it unwelcoming to rp in? Bringing in a deus ex machina Kossuthian circle so the dm played PC's linked to said circles can force their way?

Why toss random harm at players that are quite happy "freeforming" just having fun RPing? From experience, more often than not DM events like these mess up the rp for the people. If you are not going to let them solve the situation you tossed at them and win, then yes, I would preffer you not involve them to begin with.

Quote:

I missed this shiny bit of prose. Can you tell me which factions I have given a preferential treatment so far, and which ones I left in the cold?

He is wrong anyway. They are moving to get away from the be plot, the triggerhappy winians and the mostly dead grove who's leadership and remaining members still manage to step on the actuall protectors toes.

That so many are either ignoring or trying to get away from the forest plot should tell you something about how sucesfull this kind of dming is.

Sorry, but can we stop making new accounts to post anonymous comments?

Sure, just stop blocking the old ones.

Last edited by Gunz on Wed, Oct 07 2009, 9:32 AM, edited 2 times in total.

FireFromTheSky wrote:

Quote:

That we involved you in? Are you saying, ClockworkRed, that you resent me for doing something as a DM? Rather than just letting you freeform your way through Amia?

If that "something" involves stuff like forcing the entire drow population to be sick and start rotting away? Forcing negatives like these on pcs and then not letting them solve the situation unless they meet your random predicted
"solution"?

"You didn't ask to get sick, but now we toss this at you anyway, and since you failed to find a cure the way we planned you would, you can stay sick till you die, suckers."

Or screwing over the amia forest by declaring enstabilished routines and practices wrong destroying the place and making it unwelcoming to rp in? Bringing in a deus ex machina Kossuthian circle so the dm played PC's linked to said circles can force their way?

Why toss random harm at players that are quite happy "freeforming" just having fun RPing? From experience, more often than not DM events like these mess up the rp for the people. If you are not going to let them solve the situation you tossed at them and win, then yes, I would preffer you not involve them to begin with.

Quote:

I missed this shiny bit of prose. Can you tell me which factions I have given a preferential treatment so far, and which ones I left in the cold?

He is wrong anyway. They are moving to get away from the be plot, the triggerhappy winians and the mostly dead grove who's leadership and remaining members still manage to step on the actuall protectors toes.

That so many are either ignoring or trying to get away from the forest plot should tell you something about how sucesfull this kind of dming is.

This is a prime example of whats wrong. I've tried to hold my tongue, but I can't anymore, sorry.

[rant]And no, I'm not agreeing with your whiny little ass, I'm showing you as an example of the baby players who treat this game like The Sims instead of an adventuring game. Stop being a fucking bitch and take what comes at you. It's D and fucking D for the love of god. Conflict is it's main source of RP. Go play one of those social servers and have tea and huggle all you like. There are too many whiny bitches, seriously. It's so disheartening. If they're the ones who are mostly leaving, I say good fucking riddance. [/end rant]

With that said, can DM's do fucked up and/or unfair shit? Of course they can, they're human. But the forest situation has not been unfair. Furthermore, I haven't seen or heard of an undoubtedly unfair DM event in a very very long time. Just baseless crying. There has been plenty of ways to get results but people chose to stick to one or two routes. That's fine, don't get me wrong, if it's all IC, it's all IC. What gets to me is when people cry OCCly because their IC plans backfired or otherwise failed. [rant 2]Grow the fuck up, dude, seriously. It's a damn game, get a life.[/end rant 2]

Where are our players: DM events etc

Who is online