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It's quite paradoxical, considering travel between worlds can, has and does happen. In recorded Realmslore, gods have travelled through different worlds. Was Araushnee/Lolth just lucky not to meet herself when she was travelling different worlds looking for servants, at the dawn of times?

But yes: technically, there might be hundreds of Seldarine courts. I'm not sure I see how that makes things easier, though.

If I had to solve it in some semi-satisfactory manner, I'd say they are of the same origin and substance, but operate individually. If they're banished from or simply cease to exist in Realmspace, that aspect simply retreats into their essence in other worlds. That explains why gods can and have returned after apparent defeat, for example.

I guess you could simply ignore any connections between settings and avoid the dilemma altogether. It's a bit awkward, considering recorded history of planewalking, spacejamming, and the immigration of entire races. (Most races aren't native to Toril, and the Saurials are the most recent example.)

IronAngel wrote:

It's quite paradoxical, considering travel between worlds can, has and does happen. In recorded Realmslore, gods have travelled through different worlds. Was Araushnee/Lolth just lucky not to meet herself when she was travelling different worlds looking for servants, at the dawn of times?

But yes: technically, there might be hundreds of Seldarine courts. I'm not sure I see how that makes things easier, though.

I offer an idea based on Zelazny's 'Amber' series.

The worlds (prime material planes, in this case) are all reflections of each other, increasingly distorted as one moves farther away. People may also be reflected, but the gods themselves only have one existence throughout the multiple worlds.

A god's avatar is simply a different face they display when they manifest in a particular locale. They may or may not have a choice about how strictly they must adhere to the role of the avatar, based as it is on the combined psychic force of their worshippers in that area.

They may also split off parts of their essence, or absorb the essence of other deities, either by choice or by force.

A mortal who becomes a deity does so in only one plane - his other reflections continue on with their mundane lives on their own planes, though they might still have some potential connection to the one of them that became deified (= plot hook for epic-level PnP game).

There's only one real Lore Question...

Where did Sauron leave the Car Keys? :roll:

In the ignition.

Allrighty, the grand Shaundakul post: Im having a hard time finding good information on him, I found something on a site I cant remember that was quiet detailed on his clergy, speciality priests and such, but very little about what his followers actually do, what the greater goals are, traditions, gospels and theology.

As it is, I have a Ranger who is quite devout in his worship to Shaundakul, giving him quite soem trouble at times when he holds it as his duty to ensure the safety of all peaceful travellers, even when thei are drow and the likes. So my questions are teh following:
- Are there any official gospels or doctrines in teh Shaundakulite faith?
- Are there two or more different "factions" (Like lutherans, chatolics , calvinists etc in christinaity)?
- If not, would my char be able to make philosophical/theological arguments and write a gospel/doctrine?
- and if so, how would he do so? Would Shaundakul answer the questions, or enlighten a mere Ranger on a distant island?
- And while on it: can Rangers be a part of Shaundakuls clergy at all?

So Tormak, give me of your knowledge.

I'm not Tormak, but I'll answer as best I can. He has a better idea of what the church actually does and believes, I haven't looked into that at all.

This is all the information from Faiths & Avatars, as far as I can see:
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humang ... ndakul.htm

- There surely are gospels and doctrines. It's probably the case with every faith. I know of none being documented OOC, though.

- There are orders (like the one in Myth Drannor), and surely different groups and local parishes emphasize different aspects of the faith. His is a fairly small, unorganized and recently revitalized faith, IIRC, and I can't recall references to any large factions forming (as is the case with, say, Oghmanytes).

- Yes. In fact, please do. It's a central aspect of religious RP, and I would personally like to see more of it.

- Gods might give inspiration, but no clear answers. Or maybe they would, but that would be up to the DM. Religious doctrine is mostly developed and written with quite mundane means, I reckon. No need to assume religion works any different than in real life.

- Of course they can. According to F&A, his clergy consists of speciality priests, crusaders and rangers only. (Though in 3e, it would be a much more varied bunch.) 20% of the church were rangers at the time of that book, and they're known as zephyrs or mistrals.

Hello. Just some curiousities about Torm.

One, I know it to be true and I'm not arguing anything, but can anyone explain to me why Torm was never allowed the War domain, even though lore would say, (taken from Amiawiki):

Quote:

Torm serves Tyr as war leader and champion, as he did for a mortal monarch in the days following the Fall of Netheril.... Prior to the Time of Troubles, Torm served Tyr as a loyal demipower. After his resurrection at the hands of Ao, the Maimed Deity elevated him to the status of lesser deity, greatly enhancing his duties, griving him control of several armies of celestial warriors for use in outer planar conflicts."

Just seemed a bit of an oversight to me by the designers, but I was wondering if anyone might be able to reason it.

My second question is this, the souls Torm absorbed during the ToT, would they be considered to be "a part of Torm" now, or are they just in the afterlife with him as petitioners, or did they just go "poof" when it all happened? By "poof" I mean they ceased to exist in all way, shape, and form, like if they had been eaten by Kezef the Chaos Hound.

Domain don't have lots of lore behind them. They're just special abilities for the clergy. Torm already has five domains. Would be rather excessive to add a fifth one. I'd chalk it up to game design, an oversight if you think so.

Second question: I have no idea, and I'm of the opinion you shouldn't, either. It up for DMs to use, if they ever need to, but otherwise remain a mystery. No way you could ICly find out for sure, after all.

QPR wrote:

- If not, would my char be able to make philosophical/theological arguments and write a gospel/doctrine?

IronAngel wrote:

- Yes. In fact, please do. It's a central aspect of religious RP, and I would personally like to see more of it.

See 'The Library' thread in Rules & Lore

IronAngel wrote:

I'm not Tormak, but I'll answer as best I can. He has a better idea of what the church actually does and believes, I haven't looked into that at all.

This is all the information from Faiths & Avatars, as far as I can see:
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humang ... ndakul.htm

- There surely are gospels and doctrines. It's probably the case with every faith. I know of none being documented OOC, though.

- There are orders (like the one in Myth Drannor), and surely different groups and local parishes emphasize different aspects of the faith. His is a fairly small, unorganized and recently revitalized faith, IIRC, and I can't recall references to any large factions forming (as is the case with, say, Oghmanytes).

- Yes. In fact, please do. It's a central aspect of religious RP, and I would personally like to see more of it.

- Gods might give inspiration, but no clear answers. Or maybe they would, but that would be up to the DM. Religious doctrine is mostly developed and written with quite mundane means, I reckon. No need to assume religion works any different than in real life.

- Of course they can. According to F&A, his clergy consists of speciality priests, crusaders and rangers only. (Though in 3e, it would be a much more varied bunch.) 20% of the church were rangers at the time of that book, and they're known as zephyrs or mistrals.

I answered them in game independant of this post and gave pretty much the same anwers. Wee!

Curious. Do all angels/demons come from the souls of the dearly/gratefully departed? I was under the impression that for angels, only the lower rungs were from former petitioners while the other higher ranking ones, like solars and the rulers of Celestia(I forget the technical name), just "are", or were created at some point by a power.

As far as I can remember, demons are the same, but the souls have a chance of moving up in the heirarchy... or being sold... or being eaten, or made into currency. Possibly even toilet paper. *shrug*

AFAIK, some faithful do indeed eventually become celestials/devils/demons/etc. in the service of their deities.

In fact, most devils are actually mortal souls warped into a devilish state, according to the Tyrants of the Nine Hells sourcebook, though some are also fallen celestials. Demons, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I seem to recall reading that they spring directly from the evil, primorial chaos of the Abyss, or were created by the now-fallen abyssal Obyrith race, though I could be wrong.

How do aspiring wizards become a wizard?

I know wizards don't just pop up out of nowhere but goes under a life of apprenticeship, extreme dedication, and study. They also don't just go to the library and pick up magical books, they would need a master/mentor/teacher.

How do they find another wizard to become an apprentice? Are there schools in FR that teaches student wizards en masse?

ticket wrote:

How do aspiring wizards become a wizard?

I know wizards don't just pop up out of nowhere but goes under a life of apprenticeship, extreme dedication, and study. They also don't just go to the library and pick up magical books, they would need a master/mentor/teacher.

How do they find another wizard to become an apprentice? Are there schools in FR that teaches student wizards en masse?

Apprenticeship and universities, public and private on both ends, I believe. It's why wizards have some of the highest starting age of base classes in DnD, but sorcerors have the lowest.

Like Tormak said, there's a lot of variety. Most cities have notable local mages who teach others. Most experienced wizards have had an apprentice at some point.

Large schools of magic are fairly rare. There are some, but a master-apprentice relationship is more common. Menzoberranzan's Sorcere is a good example of a large academy. I suppose you might also get training in some guilds or orders after you've joined. Then you have places like the Blackstaff tower, where Khelben and Laeral have a whole bunch of apprentices who sometimes teach younger apprentices and study together, not always under the Lord and Lady Mage's watchful eyes.

Does anyone have any information on Windghosts, particulary those who serve Shaundakul?

Quote:

Shaundakul himself is said to stalk the layers of Gladsheim, and occasionally the Happy Hunting Grounds, hunting fierce beasts and evil giants with his attendant windghosts (detailed in The Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set and the MONSTROUS COMPENDIUM Annual: Volume One).

I don't have either of those things....

So, looking at Half-Drow, it says that they inherit a more Human-like eye colour. Is this to say they can't have more Drow-like eyes, or is it allowed that you give one say, red eyes?

Forgotten Realms Wiki wrote:

A half-drow is the offspring of one human parent and one drow parent. A half-drow has dusky skin, sliver or white hair, and human eye colors. They can see around 60 feet (18.3m) with dark vision, but otherwise have no other drow traits or abilities.

QPR wrote:

Does anyone have any information on Windghosts, particulary those who serve Shaundakul?

Nothing specifically about those in Shaundakul's service, but some general info:

Monstrous Compendium wrote:

Windghosts may be native to another plane. They are flying cones, the large base (their head) foremost. A windghost has a rough, mottled, flexible, smoky-gray to purple body, white pupil-less eyes (120 foot infravision and vision into the astral and ethereal planes), and a many-fanged mouth. It has two retractable 4 to 20 foot tentacle-arms on either side of its mouth; these carry items or hold prey, inflicting no damage.

Windghosts speak in hissing, rumbling, windlike voices, and know the Common tongue. They can make their eyes and bodies glow with a faerie fire radiance, this effect, seen by night, has given them their name.

Habitat/Society: Windghosts seem both bisexual and long lived. They enjoy drifting along, watching life and beauty below. They neither have nor value treasure.

Ecology: Windghosts have no known natural enemies. They eat creatures they slay, but do not attack for food. They also consume carrion and whole leafy plants, "drink" by immersing themselves in water, and absorb heat by basking in the sun.

Image

I am officially very very frightened of my own deity's servitors.

Tormaksaber wrote:

I am officially very very frightened of my own deity's servitors.

Assuming they're capable of closing it, I think they'd actually look fairly innocuous until they opened their mouths. That's when the nightmares start.

Either way, not really what I was expecting either.

Anubis wrote:

So, looking at Half-Drow, it says that they inherit a more Human-like eye colour. Is this to say they can't have more Drow-like eyes, or is it allowed that you give one say, red eyes?

Forgotten Realms Wiki wrote:

A half-drow is the offspring of one human parent and one drow parent. A half-drow has dusky skin, sliver or white hair, and human eye colors. They can see around 60 feet (18.3m) with dark vision, but otherwise have no other drow traits or abilities.

Any word on this, anyone?

Anubis wrote:

So, looking at Half-Drow, it says that they inherit a more Human-like eye colour. Is this to say they can't have more Drow-like eyes, or is it allowed that you give one say, red eyes?

Forgotten Realms Wiki wrote:

A half-drow is the offspring of one human parent and one drow parent. A half-drow has dusky skin, sliver or white hair, and human eye colors. They can see around 60 feet (18.3m) with dark vision, but otherwise have no other drow traits or abilities.

Any word on this, anyone?

Obviously I am no expert and like you I am falling short on information on the reliable internet sources so, this is solely my opinion.

You read and quoted the FR wiki and 4e DnD Wiki says that Half- Drow take more of the Drow physical traits so you could probably have the red eyes.

We are doing 3e here on Amia so.. Lets look at genetics.. and the FR Wiki. I say it's probably more common to have more human-like eyes because it's probably a more dominate trait and red eyes being rarer.

Or you can look at it as the red-headed gene .. unless you carry it and your mate carries it more than likely you won't have a red-headed child. Or a red eyed one in your case.

It probably is, and surely should be, left up to personal taste.

Thanks very much.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

A simple question that has been bugging me for a while:

What are the methods of causing damage to the weave and how well known about are they?

The destruction of a Mythallar and the killing of a Mystra are the only ones I know for causing major damage, and I'd guess that both are fairly well known. There may be others, though, I haven't read all the rulebooks yet.

The death of any deity will apparently damage the weave, as the area around Tantras where Bane and Torm killed eachother became a dead magic zone.

The weave can also apparently be attacked directly, at least by a God, as IIRC Cyric did so in one of the Cyrinishad books.

Are there any deities like Io (see this thread: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=588055#588055) that try and 'even odds', persay, with more than just a single race?

I mean, Io will tell his clergy to "reduce (enter dragons name here)'s influence on this city by half", but is there a deity that will do that for, say, humans? Like, "reduce this humans influence by this much?"

I had this mini-ooc debate with a human mage player last night who started rattling off all this information about the Crown Wars and he seemed to know all the things IC, that one would know if you'd done a lot of reading on it OOC. His character had never entered Winya library btw.

I said to him that very few elves know a great deal of information about the Crown Wars in detail. Most don't even speak about it to non-elves so how the hell does his Human Red Wizard pc know about this IC??? Basically, was the player metagaming OOC knowledge or is his high mage lore skill points good enough?

Sooo....how much information would a human mage truly know if they're NOT an elven historian?

As much as their character finds out. This is a game, so they can claim whatever knowledge they want AFAIK.
In FR, I'd say no one who hasn't been studying Elven History in great detail would know nothing much about the Crown Wars aside from maybe a brief overview.

Does being a Halruaan mage qualify you for knowing basic Netherese information? like travel records, who ruled what, what fell were...ext..maybe a few non-epic Netherese spells.... :?:

I'd say being either Thayan or Halruaan raised and born entitles you to basic knowledge, yes.

I had an idea for a character but just want to check an assumption first:
How well known is it amongst elves that the attempt to turn the Ilythiiri into drow affected all Dark Elves, not just the Ilythiiri?

Crown Wars: it's bollocks, the way we treat it on Amia. Elves talk about it daily, use it for argumentation, etc. It's ancient history that they'd rather forget, not something to bring up over and over again. That said, it's no wonder if other people on Amia have heard about them and studied into it.

And knowledge is pretty available in the Realms. If you were interested, you could surely find all this information IC, in the many libraries of Silverymoon, Waterdeep, Candlekeep and such. It's up to you to determine whether your character has done such research. It's certainly no "common knowledge," especially since there is no basic education for everyone in the Realms.

Dark Elves: that seems like an obscure detail that would be irrelevant to most, quite embarassing if it was a mistake, and Corellon's intervention regardless, so I doubt it was recorded anywhere. I've never seen any reference to any elf using it as any kind of an argument, so it's probably not something relevant and/or known at all. All in all, folks don't talk about this stuff in detail, in any source I've seen. The drow were cursed and cast down, period.

IronAngel wrote:

Dark Elves: that seems like an obscure detail that would be irrelevant to most, quite embarassing if it was a mistake, and Corellon's intervention regardless, so I doubt it was recorded anywhere. I've never seen any reference to any elf using it as any kind of an argument, so it's probably not something relevant and/or known at all. All in all, folks don't talk about this stuff in detail, in any source I've seen. The drow were cursed and cast down, period.

Ah, because the concept was an even wizard who spent centuries researching the Crown Wars discovering this fact, and turning his back on the Seldarine because of it. However, if it's impossible information to get, I can't really go through with it.
Thanks Iron.

Iron wrote:

Dark Elves: that seems like an obscure detail that would be irrelevant to most, quite embarassing if it was a mistake, and Corellon's intervention regardless, so I doubt it was recorded anywhere. I've never seen any reference to any elf using it as any kind of an argument, so it's probably not something relevant and/or known at all. All in all, folks don't talk about this stuff in detail, in any source I've seen. The drow were cursed and cast down, period.

I'd think that UD drow and Eilistraeen might know something of it. The Llothites, at least in the novels I've read, teach a twisted version of history in which drow were changed into their current form by Lloth to adapt them to the Underdark. It's seen as a blessing by them, not as a curse. Eilis might know the real truth, or they might not, but I'd think it would make sense for them to know at least something of their true history, as a tool of conversion if nothing else.

If you think about it: how would anyone but the High Mages involved in the ritual even know what it was supposed to do? If they messed up and accidentally transformed the good guys, too, I doubt they'd go around telling everyone. And even if some notable elves knew, Corellon's intervention was seen in the whole affair; would they question a god? Furthermore: ignoring everything said before, I bet the drow would be the last people to be told about it. "Oops, we only meant to transform your brother, but tough luck. Now you're condemned for a life in the Underdark, too. Sorry!"

Furthermore, there's no evidence that it was only the Ilythiiri who turned "bad:" everyone went underground as far as I can see, and some came back later, with Eili's guidance. Irrespective of whether they were of Ilythiiri stock or not. So I don't think it's a tradition the Eilistreaans could have passed along for millenia. There's no continuity, AFAIK.

I'd consider it more of a tidbit meant for readers who're interested in detail. It explains why there are no Dark Elves of Faerûn anymore, even if they all weren't Ilythiiri. It might be something people could find out IC, but it's never been mentioned anywhere in that context that I know of. I seriously doubt it's a notable event or available knowledge; seems more like patching the lore afterwards.

Last edited by Gers on Sat, Oct 10 2009, 13:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I'm pretty sure dark elves who hadn't turned against the Seldarine would have suspected something was amiss with their sudden desire to go underground and the physical changes, not to mention non-dark elven Eilistraeen observing their dark-skinned fellows. While I agree that all dark elves did go to the UD, I don't see any reason that they'd all have turned to Llothism or other dark religions. The question to me is, how well known amongst drow is the fact that High Magic was responsible for the change. If it's well known, I see no reason for some drow not to suspect or believe it was a messed up ritual. If not, I'd see no reason for them not to think that it was Corellon's/Lloth's hand directly changing them.

I personally don't see much of a reason that it'd be hidden. Getting rid of a foe in such a powerful and direct manner is something I think the elves would pass down as part of their history, as a point of pride in their magical gifts and prowess, as well as major aid from Corellon.

Gers wrote:

I personally don't see much of a reason that it'd be hidden. Getting rid of a foe in such a powerful and direct manner is something I think the elves would pass down as part of their history, as a point of pride in their magical gifts and prowess, as well as major aid from Corellon.

I was thinking the hidden bit would be that it messed up - it wasn't meant to turn every dark elf into drow, just the Ilythiiri.

Edit: My source is Lost Empires of Faerun

What's the position of the temple of Waukeen in Cordor?

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

What's the position of the temple of Waukeen in Cordor?

*confused*

Best guess is he's asking whether the Temple of Waukeen has some specific official function/position within the City, or if it's just a Temple that happens to be in the city.

The latter, I believe.

Can Paladins party with Tieflings if they are fully aware of the Tiefling's heritage?

In short, I'd be inclined to say yes.

Yurell wrote:

In short, I'd be inclined to say yes.

I'm asking the DM Team. No offence of course and thanks for your input.

Actually,I have to agree with Yurell..

The only exception being, is if said Tiefling is blatently or known to be committing evil acts you're probably likely to not be wanting to party with them.

(though if you're a Knight of the Chalice or being RP'd as such.. somehow I do NOT think that's a good party for the Tiefling)

I'd think it'd be by a case-by-case, as in depending on the pally's own interpritation of good, their diety and how "good" the tiefling seems to be. I'd think most would be loath to, but if it was absolutely necessary and the tiefling didn't do anything the slightest out of line, maybe. But for others, maybe they'd just throw up their hands and say "No way, no how, nu-uh." There are "reformed" tieflings and "redeemed" creatures after all, thought they should be very, very rare.

It's kinda like that problem where a paladin is forced to save or destroy a [insert evil race] child. Yeah, by law, it's in your right to destroy evil, but by good, it's still a child. Catch 22.

Got a palladin/BG question of my own.

Because of Divine Grace or Dark Blessing, said classes could have a low dex score(let's say 8 ), but still a relatively high Reflex save. How does that translate ICly, if at all. I was under the impression that high reflex in such a way but low dex would mean a character could still roll, jump, or flip out of the way of something, but only as a reflex, not like on command or actually trying to. Is that about right?

I'd say yes, but they'd be extremely wary of the tiefling, and probably watching it's every move. Not to mention they'd probably not *want* to be around a tiefling, unless it's to watch them and try to stop them from commiting any evil. If they find out the tiefling is a criminal, or witness them doing evil, I'd expect them to do what their god demands.

In any case, a paladin should *never* completely trust a tiefling, or really consider one a friend. There might be those rare, Drizzt-like cases out there, but they should never be the norm, nor should paladins behave as though they are.

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