AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Last edited by Chizix on Mon, Sep 28 2009, 21:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Are they still allowed?
-
Thank you for the swift replies. I'll take that into consideration.

They shouldn't be... >_>

They are. They're unofficially discouraged, though. Children aren't likely to get into DM events, get DCs or requests approved, I reckon.

Child PCs are still allowed. But, I consider it to be in extemely poor taste to take them over level 2 or 3 until they've "grown up." A child is just that: a child. They're not generally archmages capable of bending mighty demons and dragons to their will, or a warrior capable of cutting the heads off giants in one stroke. People RPing children capable of the latter will notice a distinct lack of DCs, at least from me.

I hope this doesnt mean that RPing out distinct skills that have the capabilities of one day of making a fine adventurer are out of the question. For instance being able to outskill any commoners child with a bow.

I do not mind child PC's as long as they are no higher than level 3 and stay inside Cordor at all times. My PC for one will refuse to go adventuring with children, no matter how skilled or powerful said child is.

yeah we have had afew epic kids, it was kind of stupid having a 7year old that can dev crit.

Craig wrote:

I hope this doesnt mean that RPing out distinct skills that have the capabilities of one day of making a fine adventurer are out of the question. For instance being able to outskill any commoners child with a bow.

Not at all. I like seeing training RP of children. Or of them demonstrating a budding combat or magical talent. It's just the epic children of doom that get under my skin.

If a player RPs a child well why not give them DCs to use as they grow, up to level 3 until enough DCs to change skins to become a teen and reach say level 10, then later when they get enough DCs again to change the skin and age to a adult to finish off their leveling to 30 ?

Godo wrote:

If a player RPs a child well why not give them DCs to use as they grow, up to level 3 until enough DCs to change skins to become a teen and reach say level 10, then later when they get enough DCs again to change the skin and age to a adult to finish off their leveling to 30 ?

Because that would be essentially the same as paying DCs to players who get their female characters pregnant?

Since most (Human) adventurers begin their adventuring careers at the age of eighteen, it shouldn't be an issue. As much as it bugs me as a Hin player, the halfling template can be used during the child years. During this time, the child shouldn't really gain any levels outside of the given three. RP as the child for the sole purpose of introducing the character, and then after a CONSIDERABLE amount of time, create a new character as a standard human. This will simulate that the child has reached adulthood, and as such will have no prior adventuring experience. This eliminates the need for "growing DCs" and makes more sense all around.

As far as halfling children go, it's best to wait until the child is at least seven years old before even creating a character for it. In my experience, Elves and Drow shouldn't even try. Eighteen for a human is more around 120 for an elf. And that's only if you make it that far while RPing an infant for the duration of a lesser creature's entire life. It's just not worth it, IMO, but if you really want to...

Also, because they're out there, I'll take this time to re-emphasize: 17-20 years old IS NOT, nor will it EVER BE "Adult" for a drow or elf. Thank you.

Orrr you could save DCs and remake them as an elf to represent a teenger, then as a human for adult.

Or you could avoid opening that whole can of worms and not make a child character at all. Do not want. Seriously, if you don't want to make an adult, make a late teenager, seventeen or so. I would think that most adventurers start their careers at around that age anyway.

It's not really that big of a deal to leave children of adventurers off-screen until they're actually of the age where they should be able to make mature decisions. But people think that they can succeed where many have failed and create a child/teenager PC which is engaging and fun.

My challenge to you goes like this: If you can convincingly play a character in the fashion of Greg House (without just making a carbon copy) then you can play a child character.

Godo wrote:

If a player RPs a child well why not give them DCs to use as they grow, up to level 3 until enough DCs to change skins to become a teen and reach say level 10, then later when they get enough DCs again to change the skin and age to a adult to finish off their leveling to 30 ?

Because we don't wanna encourage child PCs. We haven't banned them per se, and likely won't, but a good number of us will refuse to give any sort of encouragement for child PCs to stay as children for a long time, or to be played at all in the first place.

They are situations where child PCs work nicely as support PCs, so it'd be silly to ban them altogether. But most of the time it's simply not the sort of RP we wanna encourage on Amia. You don't get DCs for romantic relationship RP, either, but we aren't gonna ban relationship RP.

The thing we generally want to encourage is the classic adventure and intrigue RP, involving factions plotting against each other, alliances getting formed, individual characters changing as time passes etc. The social RP, like children and romantic relationships, are just additional decorations and flavours, as far as we're concerned.

Well, I am sure each DM has their own particular opinions, but this is a generalised opinion that I believe most of us share.

Children usually do rebuilds as they grow up, anyway. Start with a halfling model, get your proper race as you level up.

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38188

Nekhy wrote:

Children usually do rebuilds as they grow up, anyway. Start with a halfling model, get your proper race as you level up.

Be sure to indicate in the bio that the PC is a child. And if you dont hunt and dont level above 3 (as you shouldnt) then you wont have any issues with transferring stuff between the characters when you switch to the adult model.

And just a reminder that you can now block xp gain through the rest menu.

Xaviera wrote:

Nekhy wrote:

Children usually do rebuilds as they grow up, anyway. Start with a halfling model, get your proper race as you level up.

Be sure to indicate in the bio that the PC is a child.

Yes, please. I hate when child PC players act like I or my character are stupid for not knowing, magically, that they're a kid and not Hin/Gnome.

You can reasonably assume that I'll want to stab any child character with emoted high charisma and epic levels. You can also reasonably assume I'll want to stab anyone that is totally cool with being like 6, and lounging around with dragonbloods or other various scary ass characters like they're in a Disney movie. Or children with magical fantastical abilities of awesomeness.

But, that's just me!:)

RuffTuff wrote:

Since most (Human) adventurers begin their adventuring careers at the age of eighteen,

At 15 humans are adults. A barbarian, rogue or sorceror will typically be 1d4 years older when they start, a bard, fighter paladin or ranger 1d6 and the other classes 2d6.

Lalelilolu wrote:

You can reasonably assume that I'll want to stab any child character with emoted high charisma and epic levels. You can also reasonably assume I'll want to stab anyone that is totally cool with being like 6, and lounging around with dragonbloods or other various scary ass characters like they're in a Disney movie. Or children with magical fantastical abilities of awesomeness.

But, that's just me!:)

It's a demon child it must be purged. :twisted:

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Xaviera wrote:

Nekhy wrote:

Children usually do rebuilds as they grow up, anyway. Start with a halfling model, get your proper race as you level up.

Be sure to indicate in the bio that the PC is a child.

Yes, please. I hate when child PC players act like I or my character are stupid for not knowing, magically, that they're a kid and not Hin/Gnome.

Yes, make sure everyone knows your PC is a child - I get really annoyed when I find out I've been using a child as a meatshield for the past two hours. And don't bother getting pissy at me when I inevitably refuse to let you in the party - my characters will not going to let a child go into so much danger (except maybe Jhae).

I have a character which wouldn't mind strapping a few kids to his shield when heading out into combat.

And... that's kind of the issue I still perceive with children, and something I have yet to hear a reasonable solution to.

The fact that children are children. And that most players (righteously so) find it very hard to separate a fictional magical world such as Faerûn, from the real world which we all live in.

In the real world, we don't have hundreds of evil villains who murder, pillage and destroy on a daily basis. We don't have holy warriors trying to hold these evil forces back, on a daily basis.

It's almost impossible as a truly evil character to treat children differently from adults. Murder is murder. Evil characters rarely share the same moral values.

Due to the mere fact that an affected PC is a child, often causes a lot of characters to act out of OOC values and emotions, rather than stay IC.

That's the biggest concern I have with children PCs.

If someone knows how to deal with that appropiately, I wouldn't mind knowing it.

Well a good RPed child would not want to venture out with all these people who have tales of monsters and dangers that these adventures have spoken of, but he should would love to be around them to hear those tales. In the city Cordor where all these adventures would travel to and hang out would not drive all the children indoors fearing for their lives. There is allot more in these cities then the adventures and the few NPCs we see there, there are families living there, with children. If you have some well played, though I will admit that would be a hard role to fill, then it could indeed bring more of that unseen atmosphere to life. Just as someone playing the bartender, waitresses, etc ect., as long as the player can RP those parts as just those parts of that character and not be that supper hero child, bartender ect.

Remember now, the cities of Amia can be a harsh place but children would have learned to live in such a place, it is not like our OOC lives so should not be viewed or played as such.

My characters think children should stay inside the cities and certainly not go into combat (like mineself), some thinking they should be for sale in said cities.

My character doesn't like being around children precisely because he is one of those big monstery looking types and doesn't want to scare them...of course the few children he's encountered are either babies that are children of monstery types, or children that are apparently afraid of nothing (which are almost as annoying as children that have epic levels).

My motto is under 18, under 3.

(18 being 18 years or the equivalent for that race, 3 being the level max)

Honestly, I find ''childlike'' children the most annoying. My characters will just ignore them or tell them to scram. Got no issue with adventuring children that don't act retarded or try to be cutesy.

Just keep child PCs out of any situation that is even remotely inappropriate.

Parents are supposed to provide a safe and loving environment for their kids, but what's acceptable in real life between a parent and a child can pretty easily cross the line when it's two adults roleplaying a parent/child relationship.

DolphinRacer wrote:

My motto is under 18, under 3.

(18 being 18 years or the equivalent for that race, 3 being the level max)

Why? A 16 or 17 year old is an adult human in D&D.

Because it's his motto, as he stated.

The D&D reference material isn't a Bibel to everyone.

Lalelilolu wrote:

You can reasonably assume that I'll want to stab any child character with emoted high charisma and epic levels. You can also reasonably assume I'll want to stab anyone that is totally cool with being like 6, and lounging around with dragonbloods or other various scary ass characters like they're in a Disney movie. Or children with magical fantastical abilities of awesomeness.

But, that's just me!:)

Its not just you Lally. I want to stab them and stab them good.

Force them to pick the human race or [insert child race here] and request a skin change.

Say no to posers.
Say no to hins posing as human/elf children.

Wasn't Crowsterf the monk a very young girl for awhile?

I know people aren't a big fan of level caps (I hate them), but...a level cap in the case of children (i.e., a widget) is probably an okay idea.

Not worth implementing, not worth policing.

soundofastream wrote:

I know people aren't a big fan of level caps (I hate them), but...a level cap in the case of children (i.e., a widget) is probably an okay idea.

I like the idea with the child skin and all, but I think Tormak is probably right about it not being worth it. There really aren't that many children around, and a lot of them are transient.

TormakSaber wrote:

Wasn't Crowsterf the monk a very young girl for awhile?

Yes but before he was turned into a little girl he was a 24 year old human monk of illmatar and already Epic, i rped him as weaker when he was a girl, but more agile and faster, he/she already had the years training required to learn the moves and such.

He just gained the need to accesorise and have many outfits. Its ok he got better.

Mr Mago wrote:

I have a character which wouldn't mind strapping a few kids to his shield when heading out into combat.

And... that's kind of the issue I still perceive with children, and something I have yet to hear a reasonable solution to.

The fact that children are children. And that most players (righteously so) find it very hard to separate a fictional magical world such as Faerûn, from the real world which we all live in.

In the real world, we don't have hundreds of evil villains who murder, pillage and destroy on a daily basis. We don't have holy warriors trying to hold these evil forces back, on a daily basis.

It's almost impossible as a truly evil character to treat children differently from adults. Murder is murder. Evil characters rarely share the same moral values.

Due to the mere fact that an affected PC is a child, often causes a lot of characters to act out of OOC values and emotions, rather than stay IC.

That's the biggest concern I have with children PCs.

If someone knows how to deal with that appropiately, I wouldn't mind knowing it.

I actually thought the only real plot relevant role child PCS can obtain is supplying an opportunity for evil PCs to show their highly immoral standards.

ticket wrote:

Force them to pick the human race or [insert child race here] and request a skin change.

Say no to posers.
Say no to hins posing as human/elf children.

2nd
If the mechanics say you're a hin, you're a hin!

Subrace: child.

-2 STR (easily weaker), -2 DEX (less coordination), -2 CON (lower immune system?), -2 INT (duuh), -2 WIS (unlearned), -2 CHA (less wit, less general hygine.. and smelly)

No bonus feats.

ECL: +27. (xp will be slooooooooooow, unless got for awarded DCs and jobs... NOT adventuring)

favoured class: rogue.

Changes model to child model (1 of 2. M/F)
----------~~~-----------

Also, classes that should never be allowed by child PCs (I.M.O.):

Sorcerer (pre-pubescence doesn't allow for this)
More than 2 levels of Wizard.
Bard spells (But bard song might be ok.)
----------~~~-----------

Another note. Children of age 8 aren't necessarily stupid and they do not talk like goblins with brain damage!

I've seen many people play a 8-10 year old as though they're 5 or 6.. There is a massive difference. Children develop fast.

Will any of this be enforced? Doubtful.

I'm pretty sure Disco is against making any new subraces, but it might be possible to make an item we can drop in child character's inventories which would make most of those changes.

That is, if anyone felt like it would be worthwhile.

I'm pretty sure we're trying to discourage child characters all together. Not make them easier to play. I'm pretty sure we don't need to give them a subrace.

I think the major issue is that people play child characters as stupid little brats who aren't frightened by half-dragons and tieflings, go out and play with adventurers and who wield weapons around town. It's like playing an evil aasimar. It could happen, but it's highly unlikely, illogical and ridiculous, even for Amia.

If someone manages to play a timid and bookish little twelve year old who reads books instead of fighting goblins, I will be appeased.

To RuffTuff, please oh please can someone highlight those beautiful rose-red letters?! I swear you have more elves running around proclaiming their meager 100 years out of a possible thousand makes them an 'adult'. Then they treat 200 or something like it's over the hill and near death.

Monstrous children would not by nature be scared of other monsters. They're family. I play a 5 year old demon/dragon child that's terrified of the "Cleric Man" coming to banish her and he lurks under her bed. She won't believe the "Cleric Man" is gone until papa dragon goes to make sure it's all clear under there.

Her twin brother is to blame for that nightly fear btw.

As for the people who RP 8-10 year olds like they have suffered a long absence of oxygen to the brain, yes please stop. I've got kids in that age range and the only times I question their intellect is when they do things they shouldn't, not when they speak.

My gods my son informed me that the word 'Non-fiction' was an double negative and coherently explained -why- it was one based on current grammatical rules before strolling out the kitchen with a ham and cheese sandwich in hand.

He's 9.
We won't go into what his 8 year old sister can say. She's stumped relatives and those are people with doctorates.

Up the Int on your child PCs past a certain age -please-.

SephiraAndy wrote:

Subrace: child.

-2 STR (easily weaker), -2 DEX (less coordination), -2 CON (lower immune system?), -2 INT (duuh), -2 WIS (unlearned), -2 CHA (less wit, less general hygine.. and smelly)

No bonus feats.

ECL: +27. (xp will be slooooooooooow, unless got for awarded DCs and jobs... NOT adventuring)

favoured class: rogue.

Changes model to child model (1 of 2. M/F)
----------~~~-----------

Also, classes that should never be allowed by child PCs (I.M.O.):

Sorcerer (pre-pubescence doesn't allow for this)
More than 2 levels of Wizard.
Bard spells (But bard song might be ok.)
----------~~~-----------

Another note. Children of age 8 aren't necessarily stupid and they do not talk like goblins with brain damage!

I've seen many people play a 8-10 year old as though they're 5 or 6.. There is a massive difference. Children develop fast.

Will any of this be enforced? Doubtful.

why 2 levels of wizard?..most wizards are the age of 25 before even learning a level one spell...

Makeing a child pc subrace would encourage child PC's, which is something we have said we dont want to do.

Im for stripping levels of anything over level 2, that seems the most fun way to go about it. :twisted:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

why 2 levels of wizard?..most wizards are the age of 25 before even learning a level one spell...

I meant more than 1.

In other words. No more than 1 level. Mainly due to the fact that some children could theoretically learn a cantrip or two. But in NWN you can't have cantrips without also having level 1 spells too.

mairacle_ninja wrote:

I'm pretty sure we're trying to discourage child characters all together. Not make them easier to play. I'm pretty sure we don't need to give them a subrace.

I think the subtace above looks very unattractive. As well as having it so that children get a model change.

RuffTuff wrote:

As far as halfling children go, it's best to wait until the child is at least seven years old before even creating a character for it. In my experience, Elves and Drow shouldn't even try. Eighteen for a human is more around 120 for an elf. And that's only if you make it that far while RPing an infant for the duration of a lesser creature's entire life. It's just not worth it, IMO, but if you really want to...

Also, because they're out there, I'll take this time to re-emphasize: 17-20 years old IS NOT, nor will it EVER BE "Adult" for a drow or elf. Thank you.

Just want to point something out;

Where's your source for elven aging?

Depending on which of the many, conflicting, sources - you'll find that elves may just age normally until 15, slower until 18, and then literally -stall- until they hit 110. After which point you're looking at 1 year of human maturation to every 7 years of elven maturation.

Honestly, I find it the most plausible. I can't imagine a race surviving too long if it's young take 70 years just to become even loosely capable individuals, and 120 years to become operational teenagers.

All child pcs of the ages of 10 - 14 should be brought to the kelemvorite church. Then we can use them for what they were intended, infantry and cannonfodder!

Yurell wrote:

Lalelilolu wrote:

You can reasonably assume that I'll want to stab any child character with emoted high charisma and epic levels. You can also reasonably assume I'll want to stab anyone that is totally cool with being like 6, and lounging around with dragonbloods or other various scary ass characters like they're in a Disney movie. Or children with magical fantastical abilities of awesomeness.

But, that's just me!:)

It's a demon child it must be purged. :twisted:

Heh, reminds me of the time a DM took over Milly the Paper Girl (I think it was Milly, anyway) and brought them inside of the Orphanage, Perserverance started ranting about getting her out then cast a Banishment on her, then after explained she was a Demon.

Was quite funny.

WonWon wrote:

Honestly, I find it the most plausible. I can't imagine a race surviving too long if it's young take 70 years just to become even loosely capable individuals, and 120 years to become operational teenagers.

Not even magic could save such a race, methinks. Their ranks couldn't be replenished quick enough to survive battles. Unless they lived in a contained environment, of course.... which they, despite trying hard, don't.

LOL This whole discussion is actually amusing. It's sad that people roleplaying children badly ruined it for others. I really don't see it as a huge deal.. then again I haven't been here long enough to see these problems on the server in the past.

Also to repeat what others have said.. if you are playing a child of 4-5 years old.. you can speak in sentences already. -_- Sure some words could be said a little wrong but if your character is over 9 no. Seriously.... kids are smarter than you think unless you have some kind of intelligence issue on purpose like 25% of Amia.

It isn't a huge deal, in fact the number of child characters is low. What's stupid is that people just go for the superlatives. Being the best sorcerer is not enough, they have to be the youngest too. Elves scraping along the adolescent age limit is one indication for that. Why be a 60 year old teenager when you can be a 17 year old one? Some people just think that's cool. Personally.. the image of a child with a halfling model that is also a Blackguard and that speaks like the player is an illiterate 12 year old himself just makes me cringe. But that's the kind of player who has this kind of character, and I think any rulemaking would completely miss the target audience.

xordae wrote:

I think any rulemaking would completely miss the target audience.

I have to agree with Mr. Spock, here.

I think players that want child characters are usually just one-shot/short-term characters that can be simply done using halfling race with child head (and breasts in female case!) or are playing to make an epic mega-dragon-awesome-o-power-child.

ClockworkRed wrote:

I actually thought the only real plot relevant role child PCS can obtain is supplying an opportunity for evil PCs to show their highly immoral standards.

Indeed, and since violence involving children is probably going to be too graphic for Amia, why have them around at all?

Child PCs

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