AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Okay.. Hopefully I make this clear enough.

My char would be intrested to create an item which would have necromantic powers. Once activated the "orb" would start animating ddead creatures around it, on it's own. Yet the creatures created would be under the control of the orbs user. In this case my char.

Now I am intrested to actually do some Rp stuff with this, not wanting to have just another item in my inventory. So it wouldnt be a item in my inventory but perhas an item in IC.

I am uncertain if creating this item even possible, and if is, I would like to know how I should get started.. Obviously I need help from a DM.

Also I wonder would this item cost me DC's or could I create it without DC's, not that it would matter much.

First course of action. Post in the request section with a request.

I can see a few issues right away: we don't allow custom summons, and that's how this should be handled script-wise if you want them to be under your command.

Skeletons popping up from the ground without anyone to control them might be possible.

sounds like you want something that would let you have multi associates and that cant be done on amia because it would need henchmen to be turned on.

Noo. I don't neccesarily need to be in control. Nekhy's idea is great. Basically waht I would do with the item then would be:

Activate it and run like hell.

And I don't want huge armies under my control, no way. Just wanting to know would it be possible to create the item to cause havoc at some places. Meaning that my necromancer wouldnt need to be there to create the undead but the item would do it even though I couldnt control them.

Edit: If I would want to control them, I would go for this:

Quote:

A note on Undead Creation with a Rod of Undead Mastery

Remember that undead creation is an instant effect that only checks your “max HD controlled” when you cast the spell, meaning you can cast the spell with the rod, then put down the rod to go to sleep and you won’t have to worry about undead becoming uncontrolled. You can pull similar tricks with temporary bonuses to your caster level, such as with Deathknell.

That depends. Are you a bad enough dude?

Last edited by corypx on Sun, Sep 27 2009, 8:31 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Magiros wrote:

Noo. I don't neccesarily need to be in control. Nekhy's idea is great. Basically waht I would do with the item then would be:

Activate it and run like hell.

And I don't want huge armies under my control, no way. Just wanting to know would it be possible to create the item to cause havoc at some places. Meaning that my necromancer wouldnt need to be there to create the undead but the item would do it even though I couldnt control them.

Edit: If I would want to control them, I would go for this:

Quote:

A note on Undead Creation with a Rod of Undead Mastery

Remember that undead creation is an instant effect that only checks your “max HD controlled” when you cast the spell, meaning you can cast the spell with the rod, then put down the rod to go to sleep and you won’t have to worry about undead becoming uncontrolled. You can pull similar tricks with temporary bonuses to your caster level, such as with Deathknell.

I dont think the DMs will let you have a item that spawns a large amount of hostile monster, it could be used in lowbie areas to kill them, in towns to attack NPCs, it might need a custom monster added so it does not give exp/loot.

also can anyone link the no custom summons rule, I cant find it.

Well doing research is how I would want to go for this. Meaning I would spend much time in Tarkuul's library most likely and in other places.. but I don't know how my char would get this information, how to create the item.

I wouldnt want just do this "Spends a month in library and suddenly finds the information"

And it wouldn't need to be a success either. Yes my char would like to control the undead, but he failed badly. Would be fun actually.

Now only proplem I have is how I start all this. Someone mentioned I should request first. But.. eh.. I ain't requesting a DC item, or am I? <.<

Edit: As it wouldnt be a item which I would control in the end.

Magiros wrote:

Now only proplem I have is how I start all this. Someone mentioned I should request first. But.. eh.. I ain't requesting a DC item, or am I? <.<

Edit: As it wouldnt be a item which I would control in the end.

yes it would be a DC item, well maybe.

"As it wouldnt be a item which I would control in the end." what do you mean by that, that you make the item and it becomes a DM plot item or NPC relic or that the fact you would not control the undead?

Well I wouldnt control the undead in any case.

So it would basically become a DM plot item. But the idea behind this would be that I would want to do research and attempt ICly creating such item.

corypx wrote:

also can anyone link the no custom summons rule, I cant find it.

I believe it is a spoken only rule. It only comes up when people request for custom or something that resembles a custom summon. Same goes for L9/Epic spell requests on a widget.

It's a staff internal rule regarding DC requests, essentially. There's a lot of those that aren't posted to players, because it doesn't matter if players read it somewhere on an "official rules page" or not. They can't get a custom summon without a dev adding it into the module, anyway. The less rules we need to post as lists, the better.

Anyway, there's a few ways I could see this working. You won't get a powerful undead, regardless, that would be a custom summon essentially.

But you could spawn a few regular zombies or skeletons X/day. Or you could spawn certain PLCs that have a script that turns them into zombies and skeletons when a PC is close. I think it's a pile of bones and a zombie corpse, that are found in the default NWN selection.

I find the latter option quite amusing myself, given it fits your idea of raising the dead from the ground quite seamlessly. Plus, it's relatively cheap, as it could be done with a simple PLC spawner that is customised with a bio, name and icon of choice.

A misc item with animate death(3) unlimited uses/day and simply get a summon reskinner to a skeleton and rename it "Dead person" or something?

Of course, you're looking at 15-30 DCs for this.

PLC widget, with 3-4 skeletal bone piles that spawn the skeletal chieftain when someone go near it?

Should be easy enough to do, since custom PLC widgets can be made, and out of all the PLCs to my knowledge.

Palemaster's and such in PnP get to raise multiple undead at once, do they not?

Anyway, I like the idea. Aura of Raise Undead or something. :twisted:

Yossarin wrote:

That depends. Are you a bad enough dude?

He is so bad he saved the President from Ninja's.

Anycase, to the topic. I like it. Very much. Awesome for making traps, or just irritating people with it.

And in PnP you ca control up to your HD in undead creatures. As in, you are 30, and you can control 1 30 HD creature, or 2 15 HD creatures, etc.
Undead mastery raises the whole thing, but that is another matter entirely.

HellScourge wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

That depends. Are you a bad enough dude?

He is so bad he saved the President from Ninja's.

Anycase, to the topic. I like it. Very much. Awesome for making traps, or just irritating people with it.

And in PnP you ca control up to your HD in undead creatures. As in, you are 30, and you can control 1 30 HD creature, or 2 15 HD creatures, etc.
Undead mastery raises the whole thing, but that is another matter entirely.

I like the idea of being able to trade off the power of one summon for multiple weaker ones. There's a way to do it without dabbling in the henchman script.

Besides, the whole visual at a guy running at you with small army of skeletons is bad@$$. They may all be lv 5 and you're likely gonna kill them and their pitiful ab/ac with one hit... but still... the dude is commanding a lil militia of skeletons. It's intimidating, like evilness should be.

Anyway, good idea again, OP.

Mind that the "no custom summons" rule has a few reasonings behind it, one major one being that all those summons tend to increase lag and it would not be good for the server to offer them for everybody equally. That's why it's not a very good idea, for server functionality, to have several weaker summons instead of one strong one.

Alternatively, turn it into a mini-series event/adventure. The vile necromancer summons hoardes of skellies unleashed upon unsuspecting townsfolk, the adventurers come to its rescue and then seek to hunt down the necromancer doing this? Finding clues on the way, they eventually track him down and then, its show time.

Last edited by Magiros on Sun, Sep 27 2009, 19:09 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Ah yeah. I love the idea of having a pile of skulls and a dead body next to it. When a Pc comes too close they would spawn from it. Sounds absolutely fantastic, I don't need to be able to control them as I can easily be GS:ed to have the effect that they would be "mine". And I dont want five dragonliches to spawn, just some unsentient undead like zombies and skeletons.

Nekhys idea of having a PLC with the bone pile and zombie corpse would be perfect. ^^

Also the idea of having an "army" following me would be fun but because of the lagg it causes on the server I rather not do it. ^^

Though I do have a question about Nekhys idea, is it possible to have the undead, that are spawned by the PLC, neutral or friendly towards me, so they wouldn't attack me and actually give the idea that my char is controlling them?

Edit: I love sounds idea. But currently I have much going on in real life that I propaply couldn't make it. Or it would need to be a slow moving event, meaning that it would be done on weekends. Always wanted to be a evil necromancer with a purpouse.

I don't think the default spawns' alignments can be adjusted, no. The factions are a bit tricky, so I am not sure at all if it can be tweaked with a custom script (which is possible, though pricy compared to the stock standard PLC spanwer).

I mean, if you want the standard PLC spawned, it cannot be changed. A fully custom script that changes the faction of the NPC as it is spawned is possible, but I don't think a non-summon/henchie can be made anything else but hostile or non-hostile to all PCs.

Am I making any sense? A bit tired and feverish, so.. eh.

Alrighty then, I just go for the PLC "trap" and be GS:ed. Though.. I hope it can be made so that my char can't trigger the damn thing.. Would be quite annoying when you try to be a "strong" necromancer and your minions attack you.. >.<

Yeah, that needs to be tested beforehand. I think it can be solved by making it a "long range" item, if they're not so already.

Nekhy wrote:

It's a staff internal rule regarding DC requests, essentially. There's a lot of those that aren't posted to players, because it doesn't matter if players read it somewhere on an "official rules page" or not. They can't get a custom summon without a dev adding it into the module, anyway. The less rules we need to post as lists, the better.

sometimes its better to not post lots of rules. I wanted to know about the custom summon rule because does that mean we could request a summon thats allready in NWNs because its not custom persay, or about level 9 spells..ect because I thought DC requests on terms of spell level/effects was balance based more then anything.

No, because it's a proper summon that requires proper AI and all to function, too.

>.> ooooo...SHINY!
That would be fun to roleplay getting hit by as long as It's not abused...

Good luck!

Nekhy wrote:

No, because it's a proper summon that requires proper AI and all to function, too.

well the DM changed the summons like epic mummy...eect right?

so does that mean the NWN basic one is still around and could be a not so custom summon?

corypx wrote:

well the DM changed the summons like epic mummy...eect right?

so does that mean the NWN basic one is still around and could be a not so custom summon?

I don't understand what you mean now. But no, you can't get even the default models as extra summons.

Nekhy wrote:

corypx wrote:

well the DM changed the summons like epic mummy...eect right?

so does that mean the NWN basic one is still around and could be a not so custom summon?

I don't understand what you mean now. But no, you can't get even the default models as extra summons.

ok, yeah I was asking if custom summons just ment ones you picked the stats on and made, or if it also ment the old summons.

what about the amia summons.

could a player of Evil alignment (Efreet summon), request something that summons the Neutral alignment: Juggernaut as a request of building a golem?

No. No custom summons.

corypx wrote:

ok, yeah I was asking if custom summons just ment ones you picked the stats on and made, or if it also ment the old summons.

what about the amia summons.

could a player of Evil alignment (Efreet summon), request something that summons the Neutral alignment: Juggernaut as a request of building a golem?

You can get an item with the spell that casts the summon. But anything that would give an additional summon, despite it being already in the game, is a no go.

so if its not the default amian version of the spell, its a no go

Nekhy wrote:

corypx wrote:

ok, yeah I was asking if custom summons just ment ones you picked the stats on and made, or if it also ment the old summons.

what about the amia summons.

could a player of Evil alignment (Efreet summon), request something that summons the Neutral alignment: Juggernaut as a request of building a golem?

You can get an item with the spell that casts the summon. But anything that would give an additional summon, despite it being already in the game, is a no go.

so then a Evil alignment player who would call a Efreet, could get something to summon the Neutral alignment: Juggernaut summon?

like a tool that would change his alignment for the summon spell.

That's what she said, yes.

I'd like to add, that the PLC stock standard, OP, would be fantastic considering your original idea. I'd even say, if you requested this, that it would be possible to even get two or three undead spawning from the PLC.

This could allude to the 'undead-cohort' for the palemaster's Death Mastery, as well as minimise the potential lag option, considering two to three spawns isn't even the equivalent to a standard hostile environment spawn.

Somthing to think about.

I'd be fine with the chief spawning skeletons as long as it wasn't abused.

Perhaps, Magiros, it's time to move or post in request forum.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

corypx wrote:

also can anyone link the no custom summons rule, I cant find it.

I believe it is a spoken only rule. It only comes up when people request for custom or something that resembles a custom summon. Same goes for L9/Epic spell requests on a widget.

Actually L9/Epic spells do get allowed.
There was an epic spell request approved (but not yet priced) only last week.
Widget would eat up the charge of greater ruin and do a different damage.

Only thing is, when people request stuff like that they usually aim too high.
And the higher you aim, the quicker and shorter the answer will be. Which is why people only remember the "No" posts.

There's a difference between requesting an electric version of an epic spell you have, and requesting an item with Greater Ruin 1x a day. The former can pass, the latter will ge tthrown out the window.

Or get thrown at your face.

Okay, well I still need to rp considering this request So I have no hurry to actually request it. Needt o get corpses and such.

Anyhow, I want to thank for the great ideas and support on this.

Best course of action..

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