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xordae wrote:

Is there any ETA on when this is going to be applied to the server?

TormakSaber wrote:

A shifter is never late, etc etc.

Basically, it gets here when it gets here?

Yups. You'll just have to keep wiping that drool off the keyboard in the meantime.

It does look mighty good! Any word on whether dragonshape will get its breath on par with the shapechange version?

TormakSaber wrote:

xordae wrote:

Is there any ETA on when this is going to be applied to the server?

TormakSaber wrote:

A shifter is never late, etc etc.

the shifter is never later because he never got a invite to show up.

I can confirm that its getting worked on at least!

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

It does look mighty good! Any word on whether dragonshape will get its breath on par with the shapechange version?

If I have my way both the shapechange breath will get nerfed and the shifter will get buffed. I've seen how good the shapechange breath is.

Quote:

Basically, it gets here when it gets here?

Think Valve and Blizzard.

Can't you at least make an estimate will these changes be in 2009 or 2010?

TeroSNS wrote:

Can't you at least make an estimate will these changes be in 2009 or 2010?

yes. it may possibly be finished within the years of 2009 and 2010.

TeroSNS wrote:

Can't you at least make an estimate will these changes be in 2009 or 2010?

Absolutely not, because I don't know. We aren't paid to make these shifter changes come as fast as possible. It gets here when it gets here.

Just wanted to mention something:
I've played numerous shifters on Amia over the years, and I have to say... This looks fantastic. Thankyou to everyone who has put in an effort here. It sounds amazing, especially the fact that each shape now fits in some sort of role.

The un-petrify is a fantastic idea! And I am really liking the idea that the Shifter's shapes will have strong points and weaknesses for each type of shape.

Really well done! I've been listening to people say it's going to happen for years, and I almost gave up hope, but this really does look promising and worth the wait.

Questions:
1- How will the amount of Shifter levels affect different forms? (ie. DC calculations, when certain feats/abilities are available, when forms are upgraded)
2- Will there be some sort of information page listing the exact changes, or is it something for us to work out as we go?
3- Will Wisdom scores be used to determine bonuses in skills/abilities/DC?
4- Are Shifters going to get some item love? (Items just for Shifters, to help in specific forms. eg. A certain type of armor which will boost a certain form.)
5- Is it possible for a DM to hint at a scale of time we'll be waiting for implementation? Maybe just a comment every week or two that things are coming along well, or when delays happen.
6- Who else thinks this is FREAKING AWESOME?!

Once again, thanks to the DM's/Developers/Everyone involved.

1: The More The Better

2: I intend to publicize the spreadsheet when it's finished. It's quite comprehensive.

3: Yes

4: I don't think your example is possible, and the idea behind shifters is that they use a dabblnig of everyone els'e sgear anyways.

5: When it's done. We're hung up on balancing AC atm.

Fair enough, all sounds good. Thanks Tormak.

Edit: One thing I remember poking people about ages ago was with the Dire Tiger form. Do we get Enhancement bonuses on our claws?

All unarmed forms will.

Figured i'd ask, how goes it? Just wondering.. Can't wait!!

jafman30 wrote:

Figured i'd ask, how goes it? Just wondering.. Can't wait!!

*reads tormaks mind*

it going fine just working out the AC balance issuses.

Done when its, done when it's done when it's done....

This topic should be locked and only bumped when the Shifter changes are in the game. I get giddy every time Tormak makes a post here. For shame!

Ah, this is very sweet.

I'm about to reconfigure my shifter, but I need to know one crucial thing, if you dont mind, Tormak.

To get the epic shapes (epic humanoids), you have to have 17 shifter levels. Since the level 10 pre-epic shapes will get epic forms as well, it sounds likely that you have to take more than 17 levels of shifter to unlock them.

You know how many levels of shifter to get, to unlock all the pre-epic epic shapes?

Huzzah for the changes! Marvellous work!

Anywhere from 16 to 19.

Any chance we can get an update of where this is at? Totally realise it gets here when it gets here.

balancing is hard, do you base it of avg build, powerbuild, single form build, all the forms you get total for that feat or level......ect

give them time.

SacredOak wrote:

Any chance we can get an update of where this is at? Totally realise it gets here when it gets here.

Here when it's here.

TormakSaber wrote:

SacredOak wrote:

Any chance we can get an update of where this is at? Totally realise it gets here when it gets here.

Here when it's here.

*Outside Tormaks house are the casualties. Hundreds of Broken Records.*

MoshingChris wrote:

*Outside Tormaks house are the casualties. Hundreds of Broken Records.*

I beat you all to the long ago with asking for harm potions for how many years ?

wait I never stoped harm potions plx

Is the gargoyle hide being fixed so that the DR stacks with innate DR like a DwD's or Barb's? I tried testing a DwD Gargoyle-based Shifter a while back only to discover there's some bug that doesn't let them stack like they should. I can't recall, but I think EDR feats weren't stacking properly either.

BloodNAshes wrote:

Is the gargoyle hide being fixed so that the DR stacks with innate DR like a DwD's or Barb's? I tried testing a DwD Gargoyle-based Shifter a while back only to discover there's some bug that doesn't let them stack like they should. I can't recall, but I think EDR feats weren't stacking properly either.

it was not ment to.

Damage reduction stacks with damage resistance and damage immunity(so the forms damage reduction of 25/+7 and damage resistance piercing 25/- work with eachother)

only the barbarian,dwarven defender and epic damage reduction feats stack with eachother(so x/- damage reduction) but will not stack with X/+X damage reduction

also tormak did you remember to make Construct shapes immune to heals?

I'm pretty sure it was meant to since it specifically said it was a bug, but that's pretty lame it doesn't stack if you're right. Gargoyle makes perfect sense for a DwD, imo.

BloodNAshes wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was meant to since it specifically said it was a bug, but that's pretty lame it doesn't stack if you're right. Gargoyle makes perfect sense for a DwD, imo.

where did you read it was a bug, as far as I know thats how DR is ment to work.

BloodNAshes wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was meant to since it specifically said it was a bug, but that's pretty lame it doesn't stack if you're right. Gargoyle makes perfect sense for a DwD, imo.

Bioware mechanics. DwD and barbie DR act as x/+21.

Construct shapes immune to heals?

Cory, stop spamming. I know you're ridiculously annoyed regarding constructs and undead, but stop spamming every topic with it.

Quote:

Bioware mechanics. DwD and barbie DR act as x/+21.

Bleh, Bioware. What if you just made the hide have Bludgeoning, Slashing, and Piercing Resistance 25/- instead of DR +7/25? Nobody and nothing on Amia has +7 weapons anyway. Would that stack properly?

I assure you, the forms are being balanced with the full extent of balance knowledge. It's not as easy as "oh just do this."

that and I think forms are going more for AC over DR now, because thats much more balanced.

TormakSaber wrote:

I assure you, the forms are being balanced with the full extent of balance knowledge.

I just hope the Demonflesh Golem will still be lopsided.

Although, remember that the Epic Gargoyle is meant to be a totally defensive shape. The 25/+7 DR represents it's amazing endurance. Resist to all types isn't as great when you consider the 5/- and 10/- resist stacking with the DR.

The gargoyle will still be tanky. Honest. I've played a shifter and I'm talking to people that aren't Cory (;)) that have played shifters.

well I mean your going to lean away from like how iron golem form is right now, next to no AC all of its defence is based off DR 20/+4

because at 27wisdom and epic feat form(what should be epic used in epic spots is geting beat out 11shifter form because its +7 and not +4 soaking.)

I assumed all tank forms would have thier like 20/+4 damage reduction into say 10-15 damage resistance on each type, or just lowered damage reduction of a higher soak ontop of a slightly raised AC

so shifter tank forms are not some crazy high AC tank or some crazy DR meat shield, but more of a mid AC with some thick skin to sofen the more offen blows.

BloodNAshes wrote:

Quote:

Bioware mechanics. DwD and barbie DR act as x/+21.

Nobody and nothing on Amia has +7 weapons anyway.

Arcane Archer can get up to +10 arrows in Amia.

Ulir wrote:

BloodNAshes wrote:

Quote:

Bioware mechanics. DwD and barbie DR act as x/+21.

Nobody and nothing on Amia has +7 weapons anyway.

Arcane Archer can get up to +10 arrows in Amia.

And theres some creatures with higher enchantment on their claws (brog waste spiders etc)

TormakSaber wrote:

So, um, we've hit a minor snag. Bioware doesn't allow us to equip items for dual wielding... so the kobold will keep its shortsword and the Drider will probably get a halberd to make up for losing 2 attacks. Or maybe just keep the spear. I'm not sure yet.

I just thought about a potential solution to this: could you give the drider a two-bladed sword. Its kind of like dual wielding spears.

IIRC Driders are large Creatures. In that case the two-bladed sword is used in one hand and will not give the "Duel wielding" effect.

Quote:

Arcane Archer can get up to +10 arrows in Amia.

Yes, but normally a gargoyle gets +7/25 *and* Piercing 25/-. Just using the latter actually makes it weaker to most archers, although it'd be better all around since it would stack with innate DR from classes and feats for other forms of damage. Didn't know about the spiders, but anyone who thinks high DR is stronger than high AC (or even high DR with mediocre AC) is...very incorrect to put it nicely.

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

IIRC Driders are large Creatures. In that case the two-bladed sword is used in one hand and will not give the "Duel wielding" effect.

Correct.

And... once again, BnA... trust me to not be a gigantic fuckup, along with the rest of the DMs and testers. We do actually know what we're doing.

I forget I think I remember a bug with drow form was that fixed?

The drow warrior shape changes a shifter's race to elf when shifted and cause a multiclass penalty for a shifter or something.

Don't think that will be fixable, honestly.

ok was not sure, all the other ones dont seem to do that so was thinking you could change it some how.

It's the only form that turns you into another PC race, so affects your favored classes, is my guess.

so when your doing the fix could you like copy past one of the other forms in its place that does not change the race and make its stats how you wanted it, would that not fix the problem?

A Shifter is never late.

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