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Also why everyone should just play Wizards. Amia would be a better place if everyone just plays wizards.

Who's that in reply to? I am baffled.

lathandier wrote:

Also why everyone should just play Wizards. Amia would be a better place if everyone just plays wizards.

Fail.

Next question?

Why yes.

I have a 30-natural strength barbarian who uses a scythe. If my AC is already abysmal either way, should I just let it flounder?

Last edited by ticket on Mon, Sep 14 2009, 5:15 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Next question?

I don't have any experience playing a great smiter so I'm not so sure if it's a worthy goal / passable in PvM. Heck, I haven't played a toon with D. Might & D. Shield ever, I feel it doesn't last as much as I would like. So if ever I'm going to make a CHA based melee toon, might as well pump the CHA all the way up.

Need advice/critique on the build. Any feats I missed / don't need? Too much smite?

Character would be a Pala-nuke of Hoar. 9 int will mean he'll be able to form sentences but would be very gullible. How do you think a person with these base stats act?

I'm also thinking of dropping Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, and Epic Weapon Focus in exchange for Exotic Weapons, Unarmed Combat, and Extra turning. He's a Paladin so he'd still have passable AB, I'm thinking he could switch up his weapon of choice depending on the bastard he's exacting vengeance to. A monk has been bad and stealing candy from kids? UMD-wear an epic gauntlet and crush the bad monk to powder. Think that's worth the loss of AB?

Paladin(19), Champion of Torm(10), Rogue(1), Calish!te
STR: 14
DEX: 8
CON: 7
WIS: 14
INT: 9
CHA: 19 (26)

Pre-epic: Paladin(19)/CoT(1)
Power Attack
Weapon Focus: Longsword
Divine Might
Extend Spell
Improved Critical: Longsword
Divine Shield
Blind Fight
Extra Smiting

CoT(9)/Rogue(1)
Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
Armor Skin
Epic Prowess
Great Smite I
Great Smite II
Great Smite III
Great Smite IV
Great Smite V
Great Smite VI

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Why yes.

I have a 30-natural strength barbarian who uses a scythe. If my AC is already abysmal either way, should I just let it flounder?

If I had such a toon, I would prioritize DR first then take care of AC + Saves second. 36-42 AC could save you from the last attacks of Amian mobs still. Unless you want to be hit to do elemental shield damage...

Silvarus wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

Ranged Sneak-based combat is by a large margin the worst style to be solo or solo tank with, but when you've got someone up front to set up your Sneaks, it's got one big advantage: you can't be blocked by enemy tanks. Nothing's more annoying that getting Ice Stormed, Blade Barriered and Melf Arrowed by the goddamn giant casters because their tubby friends are in the way. The Sneak sniper just drops Conc-breaking DPS into them and giggles from afar.

Soloing is for losers anyways.

It was tongue in cheek, pointing out that most people already DO play wizards, AND that a wizard can both solo and party, as well as party-solo, and be solitary in a party, as well as find solitude in a solitary party solo.

ticket wrote:

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Why yes.

I have a 30-natural strength barbarian who uses a scythe. If my AC is already abysmal either way, should I just let it flounder?

If I had such a toon, I would prioritize DR first then take care of AC + Saves second. 36-42 AC could save you from the last attacks of Amian mobs still. Unless you want to be hit to do elemental shield damage...

Barb list of priority.

Con
Str
AC
DR/-
Saves

What would be the minimum number of Monk levels to emulate a spiked guantlet style fighter who just beats things in HULK SMASH style as opposed to a full blown monk?

The lack of gloves counting as armed weapons makes it impossible to be anything but worthless with no weapon as a non-monk, and I'm playing with the idea of a huge guy who just smashes things with his bare hands because he can. Possibly Con and Str based entirely, HP wall.

Any suggestions?

Drannok wrote:

What would be the minimum number of Monk levels to emulate a spiked guantlet style fighter who just beats things in HULK SMASH style as opposed to a full blown monk?

The lack of gloves counting as armed weapons makes it impossible to be anything but worthless with no weapon as a non-monk, and I'm playing with the idea of a huge guy who just smashes things with his bare hands because he can. Possibly Con and Str based entirely, HP wall.

Any suggestions?

20 monk/4 fighter/6 CoT, take unarmed feats, wear full plate, enjoy d20 fists, fighter focus feats, use gloves for damage and a tower shield for AC. Spiked Gauntlet + Tower Shield Bashes.

Ah neat. TY

You won't run fast and you won't have monkspeed but to my knowledge everything else still works. So you'll have like 30 SR, the immunties, all that fancy stuff, and access to the monk special attacks.

Take fighter as your first level and you could leave WIS and DEX at 8 since you're going with a plate armor.

Hell maybe you could even add in BG in there somewhere and get a decent cha for taunt/intimidate and divine shield/might.

Monk 20/Fighter 6/BG 4?

It could actually work, carry a full tower shield + divine shield and your ac will match real monks. Higher saves, really good damage, no need for uncanny dodge, SR, mind immunity.

Maybe even slip in dev crit in there if you want lower cha.

Brawler template.

rad rad rad... it's Conan's montage years.

ticket wrote:

It could actually work, carry a full tower shield + divine shield and your ac will match real monks. Higher saves, really good damage, no need for uncanny dodge, SR, mind immunity.

Maybe even slip in dev crit in there if you want lower cha.

Brawler template.

Yep. I admit the base build is stolen off an idea Ron had a long time ago and to my knowledge he never did. A half orc brawler bouncer type.

The AB will make your eyes bleed, though. Monks with a 14mod in STR or DEX are okay for PvMob because of the BAB progression, but for PvP or PvBoss it's annoyingly low, and that's without any ability points leeched off to CHA,

He's not evil, so BG is out really.

20 Monk/4Fighter/ 6 CoT is the best fit really.

Went with Dwarf, and since I'm not overly concerned with PvBoss or PvP, the sub-optimal AB doesn't bother me. I might even hit 21 base con for DR feats just because I can, and everything else goes into Str.

He's alot of fun to RP. Somewhat overweight, but thickly muscled dwarf beating things to death with a gigantic spiked gauntlet, a spiked shield, and a horned helmet.

FEAR the KRAGFIST BEAR HUG!

Taking CoT means he'll have to be very religious, though. You can always try Monk25/PDK1/Fighter4!

Monk/SD/Fighter forhipssixattacksperroundandWSkekekekekeke!

MoshingChris wrote:

Barb list of priority.

Con
Str
AC
DR/-
Saves

So, tinkering with Barb24/F4/R1 - ogrillion
Can go a couple different ways:
1) CON21, EDRIII, ends with STR26,Thundering, Terrifying, no weapon feats.
2) CON18, STR28, EWF/EWS, Thundering, Dev Crit

Basically, would you take EWF/EWS+ Dev Crit over Terrifying+EDRIII?

Plenty of AB/Damage in both. AC is a bit iffy until the tumbledump in high epic. Terrifying would be late epic - I know it can be a pain in the rump to level with. Thoughts?

Edit:missed something

Gah sorry Maglorine. When i say list of priority i mean in terms of gear setting.

Quote:

Basically, would you take EWF/EWS+ Dev Crit over Terrifying+EDRIII?

I would take EWF/EWS and Epic Fort, Epic Discipline.

Because of how Barb works x2 19/20 weapons will do more DPS than x3 20/20 weapons. Having the option of being able to take a shield is also useful because shields can get you physical Resistances and Immunities which is lovely Jubbly.

So, anyone got anything enticing for something like a thuggish/pirateish dwarf? He is meant to be something to play when I'm sick of administrating the countless buffs of Luthor, so he should be nice and easy to play. Barbarian perhaps? Props if you can make him best served by using 4/4 armors. They look rad.

Alright, looking for a decent Pale Master/Necromancer Caster build. Was thinking of focus in Necromancy and Illusion but I'm a bit new on these kind of things. Help? :mrgreen:

Edit: The Race will most likely be Tiefling

ShadowSoul89 wrote:

Alright, looking for a decent Pale Master/Necromancer Caster build. Was thinking of focus in Necromancy and Illusion but I'm a bit new on these kind of things. Help? :mrgreen:

Edit: The Race will most likely be Tiefling

26 wizard/2 rogue/1 ranger

next

Kjetta wrote:

So, anyone got anything enticing for something like a thuggish/pirateish dwarf? He is meant to be something to play when I'm sick of administrating the countless buffs of Luthor, so he should be nice and easy to play. Barbarian perhaps? Props if you can make him best served by using 4/4 armors. They look rad.

If you want pure relaxation I suggest EDR III Barbarian. Its so easy to play its painful.

Your looking to end up 20str 21(or 22)Con 13dex 13int 8wis 6cha. I wouldn't even bother going two hander either. Just whack something suitably dwarven in that free hand.

24 Barb 4 Fighter 2 Rogue with a shield.

You still run upto 50AB and with 21 or 22 con you run it all day. 119 rounds of rage is enough to keep that motor running. Add in the fact that it self hastes and divine favors in one click and the picture is clear sah.

TormakSaber wrote:

ShadowSoul89 wrote:

Alright, looking for a decent Pale Master/Necromancer Caster build. Was thinking of focus in Necromancy and Illusion but I'm a bit new on these kind of things. Help? :mrgreen:

Edit: The Race will most likely be Tiefling

26 wizard/2 rogue/1 ranger

next

Tormy...curious..what extra feat are you taking with ranger? Isn't it only a melee based extra feat?

I'm guess I'm asking the point of ranger on a mage over the extra cl, if it's only a melee type feat.

..also evasion on a mage? Well if he wants a palemaster he can go for the AC mage build and take extend spell...could even auto still and take a melee class for heavy armor + a sheild while avoiding arcane spell failure (if no ecl)....enough pm and he's immune to crits, dev crits included.

..downside is spell duration, which is what the extend feat helps with.

Soo pm/wiz/ 2 rogue ?

dev/crit immune ac mage tank with evasion, tumble, and umd....spicy? (could also throw in some imp expertise too +epic mage armor)

(unless he's going with an ecl, then can't autostill to 3, and the build would have to work on the regular still spell feat. which would totally suck for level 9 spells) In that case try a high int build I'd say.

...which bring us back to:

What's the point of ranger? :shock:

Azrael wrote:

Tormy...curious..what extra feat are you taking with ranger? Isn't it only a melee based extra feat?

I'm guess I'm asking the point of ranger on a mage over the extra cl, if it's only a melee type feat.

Check nwn wiki more
ranger gives (usefull ones: )
shield proficiency
medium armor
simple and martial weapon (adding to your wizard and rogue)

epic feat can be epic spell focus (rangers are also casters, ya know)

So, mainly a character evaluation/Suggestion part.. I dug out my very first character I made back in 06.
He's a Drow. level 19 (10 BG/8 Fighter/1 Rogue)
18 Strength
12 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
12 Wis
12 Char

I didn't spread the skills very good, put most of the fighter skills into Craft armor/Craft weapon, Discipline(Fortunately) and heal. Also some points in tumble.
He has Improved Knockdown and great cleave.
Weapon focus Longsword and Weapon spec Longsword.
Also Blindfight.

When I reused him I was semi surprised that he did actually fare rather well, even against Yuanti's.
He should end up with 14 Wisdom, for the nifty Blackguard ability of the Unholy avenger, and with 16 BG levels for the Epic Fiendish servant, and so that all abilities last 8 hours. (Reminds me, with whom do I need to talk about the book of vile rituals? Currently the succubus is rather.. lacking.)

Kjetta wrote:

So, anyone got anything enticing for something like a thuggish/pirateish dwarf? He is meant to be something to play when I'm sick of administrating the countless buffs of Luthor, so he should be nice and easy to play. Barbarian perhaps? Props if you can make him best served by using 4/4 armors. They look rad.

4/4 armour works for a STR-base Rogue24/Ftr6; you'd want 15STR to get ITWF, so it's a very short step to 18DEX.

The damage is absurd when you get Sneaks(~88/hit), and generic STR+EWS beefy when you don't, but it's got the usual twohander drawbacks.

Epic Dodger is better overall because it doesn't auto-die if it ever has to duke it out mano a dwarfo but within its niche of flanker, the STR-base Sneakwhore is king of the DPS hill.

MoshingChris wrote:

Gah sorry Maglorine. When i say list of priority i mean in terms of gear setting.

Quote:

Basically, would you take EWF/EWS+ Dev Crit over Terrifying+EDRIII?

I would take EWF/EWS and Epic Fort, Epic Discipline.

Because of how Barb works x2 19/20 weapons will do more DPS than x3 20/20 weapons. Having the option of being able to take a shield is also useful because shields can get you physical Resistances and Immunities which is lovely Jubbly.

Meh. Epic Feats - He gets 3 general epic feats, 3 fighter epic feats, one Barb bonus feat.

I had Great STR to top up STR to 28 rather than leaving it at 27. That's 1 general feat. With 4 Fighter I need to use one general feat for WSpec, taken simultaneous with EWS at 24 or 27, that's the 2nd general feat. That leaves 1 general feat. Since neither Epic Fort nor ESF are fighter or barb bonus feats I only have 1 general feat to play with. Hence the suggestion of dev crit since I could use the one spare fighter epic bonus feat on OW crit to finish out the prerequisites. I could drop Great STR but ending on an odd number on a primary stat...........grrrrgrumblescream.

I'd be planning on a 19-20 X2 weapon so a 15-20 crit range and a average DC39.

belgianbonzai wrote:

Azrael wrote:

Tormy...curious..what extra feat are you taking with ranger? Isn't it only a melee based extra feat?

I'm guess I'm asking the point of ranger on a mage over the extra cl, if it's only a melee type feat.

Check nwn wiki more
ranger gives (usefull ones: )
shield proficiency
medium armor
simple and martial weapon (adding to your wizard and rogue)

epic feat can be epic spell focus (rangers are also casters, ya know)

Ok...so spellfocus then.

"Unavailable epic feats: automatic quicken spell, automatic silent spell, automatic still spell, construct shape, dragon shape, epic spell penetration, epic spell: dragon knight, epic spell: epic mage armor, epic spell: epic warding, epic spell: greater ruin, epic spell: hellball, epic spell: mummy dust, epic weapon specialization, great smiting, improved ki strike 4, improved ki strike 5, improved sneak attack, improved spell resistance, improved stunning fist, lasting inspiration, mighty rage, outsider shape, planar turning, terrifying rage, thundering rage, undead shape
These epic general feats cannot be selected when taking a level of ranger."

Quote:

Meh. Epic Feats - He gets 3 general epic feats, 3 fighter epic feats, one Barb bonus feat.

Righto. I'd go

Thundering, Terrifying, EWF/EWS, Gr. STR, Armor Skin. 28str.

I've taken a bit of a look at the new shifter forms, and I have to admit I'm pretty interested. More specifically, I'm curious to know if creating a Druid/Shifter/Fighter or Druid/Shifter/Barbarian that took advantage of EDR III would be worth the stat/feat usage - or, I guess, if it would even be possible or plausible.

Any word?

Champion of Helm wrote:

I've taken a bit of a look at the new shifter forms, and I have to admit I'm pretty interested. More specifically, I'm curious to know if creating a Druid/Shifter/Fighter or Druid/Shifter/Barbarian that took advantage of EDR III would be worth the stat/feat usage - or, I guess, if it would even be possible or plausible.

Any word?

Its certainly possible. Ive been planning to do something similar (EDR III Druid) for a little while. The thing is, even with a Gnome (+2 CON), getting 21 CON and 20 Wisdom (For EDK) is a stretch and requires significant gimping on the other stats. Given that, I dont think it would be possible to get the WIS right up into the mid 20s or so needed for the Epic Forms apart from Undead.

Its possible to get Outsider Shape and EDR 3. On a FFolk. Minmaxed to hell.

You want your start abilities to look something horrid like his.

7sstr 8dex 19(21)con 18(26)wis 8int 8cha

Druid -> 1- 5 +1Con
Shifter -> 6 - 15 +1Con
Fighter -> 16 -20

Epic 21 - 23 Fighter (Great Wis 1 EDR II)
Shifter 24 - 30 (Undead Shape, Outsider Shape, Great Wis 2,3, EDR III)

Horrid looking thing.

Hey gang. I am a noob here so forgive all that is noobery. I have been through a fair bit of this tread and I am looking to see if there is anyone who would like to offer some suggestions on a build. I would like to play a Cleric/Fighter/Weapon Master who could benefit from Dev Crit but still have the healing and other goodness of a cleric. I was thinking trading off between Cleric and Fighter for a few levels and then focusing on Cleric to get the good spells. Once finished with that a few more fighter levels and then into WM, then finish off with Cleric or fighter levels. Has anyone attempted this yet and if so are there any good suggestions for this?

Race will be either Dwarf for the flavour or Drow for the goldness of them. Again, apologies for the noobiness and also, cheeers!

21 Cleric 4 Fighter 5WM wielding a 19/20 or 18/20 Weapon is the best bet.

Last edited by ticket on Sat, Sep 19 2009, 2:18 AM, edited 2 times in total.

21 Cleric/4 Fighter/5 WM looks to be impossible, I think; mind I did not test it, but the feats doesn't seem to add up.

Cleric/Fighter/WM with Dev Crit and good spells? It's a huge stretch, maybe with a subrace with STR bonus or feat bonus (Tuigan might pull it off better).

Anyways, here's what I came up with:

Fighter(10), Cleric(15), Weapon Master(5), Dwarf
STR: 16 (26)
DEX: 13
CON: 10
WIS: 16
INT: 13
CHA: 6

Fighter(1) Power Attack, Cleave
Cleric(1)
Cleric(2) Extend Spell
Cleric(3)
Cleric(4)
Cleric(5) Weapon Focus
Cleric(6)
Cleric(7)
Cleric(8) Dodge
Cleric(9)
Cleric(10)
Cleric(11) Improved Critical
Cleric(12)
Fighter(2) Mobility
Fighter(3) Blind Fight
Fighter(4) Spring Attack
Fighter(5)
Fighter(6) Expertise, Whirlwind Attack
Fighter(7)
Fighter(8) Great Cleave

Epic:
Weapon Master(1) Great Strength I, Weapon of Choice
Weapon Master(2)
Weapon Master(3)
Weapon Master(4) Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Master(5)
Cleric(13)
Cleric(14) Great Strength II
Cleric(15)
Fighter(9)
Fighter(10) Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical

21 Cleric/8 Fighter/1 Rogue might be the build you're looking for, WM is just too costly for a cleric in terms of feats and ability points.

P.S. don't bother with a cleric/fighter/wm on a drow.

ticket wrote:

21 Cleric/4 Fighter/5 WM looks to be impossible, I think; mind I did not test it, but the feats doesn't seem to add up.

Why do you have two feats at 21?

No idea.
CBC bug.

Guess that pushes 1 Great STR out and ends with 25 STR.

Weapon Master(1) Great Strength I, Weapon of Choice
Weapon Master(2)
Weapon Master(3)
Weapon Master(4) Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Master(5)
Cleric(13)
Cleric(14) Overwhelming Critical
Cleric(15)
Fighter(9)
Fighter(10) Great Strength III, Devastating Critical

I wrote up a rough copy of my barbarian/ weapon master build.
So I'm using a level 24 Barb/ 5 WM aasimar based on a human template.

Starting Attributes
STR:17 | DEX: 14 | CON: 14 | WIS: 10 | INT: 13 | CHA: 10

By max level, his base strength would be 26. His wisdom and charisma was originally 8, but the aasimar thing bumped them up another 2 and he is meant to be a cultured barbarian anyway.

Level Progression
Barb 1: Weapon Focus (greatsword), Dodge
Barb 3: Mobility
Barb 6: Expertise
Barb 9: Imp. Critical (greatsword)
Barb 12: Spring Attack
Barb 15: Whirlwind Attack
(18) Barb 16/ WM 2: Knockdown
(21) Barb 18/ WM 3: Great Strength
(24) Barb 20/ WM 4: Great Strength
(27) Barb 23/ WM 4: Thundering Rage
(28) Barb 24/ WM 4: Terrifying Rage
(29) Barb 24/ WM 5: Max level! Partay!

For skills I'm thinking about maxing Discipline, Intimidate, Spot and Listen. However that still leaves me with 22 skill points to spend.

I'm thinking of taking weapon master levels sporadically and leaving the 5th level until either the 28th or 29th. The Weapon Master requirement feats were annoying, so many useless feats. ;_;

Oh, and he is planning to wear medium armour and to wield a great sword.

So, opinions would be great on how to make this a better build. Thank you for your time!

ticket wrote:

Guess that pushes 1 Great STR out and ends with 25 STR.

Weapon Master(1) Great Strength I, Weapon of Choice
Weapon Master(2)
Weapon Master(3)
Weapon Master(4) Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Master(5)
Cleric(13)
Cleric(14) Overwhelming Critical
Cleric(15)
Fighter(9)
Fighter(10) Great Strength III, Devastating Critical

There's a problem here. You cannot take Dev Crit on a level when you achieve the ability score prereq via Great STR feat. Since you are showing Dev Crit at level 30, it will not appear on the feat list and you will not be able to select it. You would be out of luck. You can take Dev Crit on a level where you reach STR25 via standard ability score increase since that is applied immediately, and prior to the presentation of the feat list, but ability score feats are applied at the end of the leveling process.

Also, with 15 Cleric but only 16 base WIS you are missing out on level 7 and 8 spells.

Frankly, I wouldn't go this way at all. It's a real stretch feat wise.

maglorine wrote:

There's a problem here. You cannot take Dev Crit on a level when you achieve the ability score prereq via Great STR feat. Since you are showing Dev Crit at level 30, it will not appear on the feat list and you will not be able to select it. You would be out of luck. You can take Dev Crit on a level where you reach STR25 via standard ability score increase since that is applied immediately, and prior to the presentation of the feat list, but ability score feats are applied at the end of the leveling process.

You're right, another rejig then...

Weapon Master(1) Great Strength I, Weapon of Choice
Weapon Master(2)
Weapon Master(3)
Weapon Master(4) Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Master(5)
Cleric(13)
Cleric(14) Great Strength II
Cleric(15)
Fighter(9)
Fighter(10) Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical

maglorine wrote:

Also, with 15 Cleric but only 16 base WIS you are missing out on level 7 and 8 spells.

Frankly, I wouldn't go this way at all. It's a real stretch feat wise.

Yeap. That's why I recommended taking lots of fighter instead of WM and fit more cleric levels. Should be easy to get dev crit, 8th level spells, and lots of extra feats.

ticket wrote:

Yeap. That's why I recommended taking lots of fighter instead of WM and fit more cleric levels. Should be easy to get dev crit, 8th level spells, and lots of extra feats.

More cleric won't help you get higher spells without more wisdom

Last edited by ticket on Sat, Sep 19 2009, 2:30 AM, edited 4 times in total.

Genar_Detkasa wrote:

Starting Attributes
STR:17 | DEX: 14 | CON: 14 | WIS: 10 | INT: 13 | CHA: 10

By max level, his base strength would be 26. His wisdom and charisma was originally 8, but the aasimar thing bumped them up another 2 and he is meant to be a cultured barbarian anyway.

Level Progression
Barb 1: Weapon Focus (greatsword), Dodge
Barb 3: Mobility
Barb 6: Expertise
Barb 9: Imp. Critical (greatsword)
Barb 12: Spring Attack
Barb 15: Whirlwind Attack
(18) Barb 16/ WM 2: Knockdown
(21) Barb 18/ WM 3: Great Strength
(24) Barb 20/ WM 4: Great Strength
(27) Barb 23/ WM 4: Thundering Rage
(28) Barb 24/ WM 4: Terrifying Rage
(29) Barb 24/ WM 5: Max level! Partay!

Looks good, the only thing I'm missing in the build is cleave. Luckily Amia has an item with cleave though so you'll live. Drink a dex potion and/or drop some dex on your gear then wear the lovely kumakawa armor. Partay!

Should be fun.

Yurell wrote:

ticket wrote:

Yeap. That's why I recommended taking lots of fighter instead of WM and fit more cleric levels. Should be easy to get dev crit, 8th level spells, and lots of extra feats.

More cleric won't help you get higher spells without more wisdom

It doesn't.

Not needing 13 DEX and 13 INT however automatically translates to more Wisdom & STR. Not needing WM pre-requisite feats means freed up epic feats to fit in a couple of Great WIS/STR.

Ah, dropping WM entirely. Sorry, still learning how to build.

Taking Cleave without Great Cleave, Blackguard or getting it on a Monk is high up on the build/feat/you fail list.

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