Recommenced starting stats is 18STR 13Dex 12CON 13INT 8WIS 8CHA. Aiming for 26STR at least at level 30.
The most reliable build would be the 12 Fighter / 16 WM / 2 Rogue.
Take the first rogue level at 22 and the second rogue at either 27, 28, or 29. 28 if you want to reach 30 UMD (31 base UMD skills -1 from negative cha) or 29 if you have 6 CHA.
The easiest WM build to play would be the 18 Fighter / 7 WM / 5 Rogue. You can get a couple of rogue levels in pre-epic to get tumble AC and UMD early. You'll also have lots of feats a skills to throw around. You shouldn't have any trouble leveling this toon.
Mmm. Currently I'm planning an Aasimar (human based) Barbarian/ Weapon Master. (probably go with 22 barb/7 wm)
A question before I get any more stuck into it.
I'm a bit fuzzy on what armour my barbarian would be wearing. Is it advisable to invest in heavy armour or will medium armour work just as fine? According to NWN wiki there is no penalties to invest in heavy armour apart from expending one feat, but I remember something about some abilities not being able to be used? Any specifics on that?
In my opinion, taking a heavy armor feat in what would be already a feat deprived build is a bad idea. It would be better if you could get it with your 3rd class like from a fighter, BG, or a cleric (if you have decent cha, you could even throw in a divine shield maybe).
Anyways without taking a 3rd class with Heavy Armor proficiency, I'm thinking you could go with 14 DEX and wear the Kumakawa instead. It's a nice armor that has improved evasion, add that on top of a barbarian's reflex save and it should be a good match. I think, never tried it before.
I now wear the Kumakawa as my standard armour for STR-bases in the Spire and up Brog Mountain; the amount of damage you either outright dodge or cut in half is worth far more than the drain of 2 base AC and the need to top up DEX.
Even with the penalties, it'd make no difference to my giantsy hijinks; Fort is redundant because of bubbly potion, Will because of Prot/Evil. The reason I swapped is dAIsco; the frosties in particular use their old special attacks much more than jAI ever did.
For harder places and PvP, it's a too big a drain in AC and/or DEX(therefore Mythal slots) for my tastes.
Last edited by Uberuce on Tue, Sep 08 2009, 6:56 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Bah, you caught me mid-edit. The ring's only a dent of one Mythal slot and if you do have some other awesomesauce rings you can still wear one of them.
The armour is also -1 or -2AC(at best: this assumes you've got the 18 DEX), 20% arcane failure, can't be worn by pure mages and if you do have another spanking armour, it's no use.
Does anyone know if lesser spellbreach or greater spellbreach brings down Acid Sheath? I know it brings down elemental shield but unsure on Acid Sheath.
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
But it might not remove it in just one casting, it'd depend on how many other breach-able spells the target has. Check out the breach list:
Quote:
The following magical defenses are removed (in order): 1. Greater spell mantle 2. Premonition 3. Spell mantle 4. Shadow shield 5. Greater stoneskin 6. Ethereal visage 7. Globe of invulnerability 8. Energy buffer 9. Greater sanctuary 10. Minor globe of invulnerability 11. Spell resistance (spell) 12. Stoneskin 13. Lesser spell mantle 14. Mestil's acid sheath
Acid sheathe is in the 14th spot so if there's two more spells in there before the Acid sheate and you're using only a lesser breach. It would stay up still.
That's how it works I think. I'm a mage newbie, so better wait for others to confirm or beat me down with their staffs.
So, I want to make a good ol' thief. Not an assassin, a mugger, or a bandit, but a thief. One who can sneak in, steal, and sneak out while leaving everyone clueless. A thief who can fool guards. A thief that can be liked. A thief with styke and class. And a thief whose' char sheet doesent make Uce's eyes bleed.
Im figuring I want as many rogue levels as possible for sneaks and skills, so my crude scetch is something like Rogue 28/Fighter 4. Nets me two rogue epic feats, free fighter profiencies and two bonus feats, one pre and one post epic. To make him stylish, I think i will go for large crossbow and a rapier + shield for weapons of choice, I believe giving him two weapon fighting will suck out too many feats to be worth it, with his low BAB progression.
I have never played a char that is mainly based on rogue levels, so any input on feats, skill points, race etc woyld be very welcome. His main focus would be disabling traps, sneaking, etc, but i dont want him to suck too badly in combat either.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Could just go pure Rogue. Those 4 levels of Ftr don't mean a whole lot, unless you intend to take Epic Weapon Spec. Even then, it's not that good. 25/4/1 Rog/Ftr/Ranger would be pretty good, I guess, but pure Rogue is cooler.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
QPR wrote:
So, I want to make a good ol' thief. Not an assassin, a mugger, or a bandit, but a thief. One who can sneak in, steal, and sneak out while leaving everyone clueless. A thief who can fool guards. A thief that can be liked. A thief with styke and class. And a thief whose' char sheet doesent make Uce's eyes bleed.
You might consider Shadowdancer, but then again everyone does.
Quote:
Im figuring I want as many rogue levels as possible for sneaks and skills, so my crude scetch is something like Rogue 28/Fighter 4.
Perhaps you mean 26 Rogue Fighter 4?
A slightly better option in my opinion would be Rogue 25 Fighter 4 +1 level in a full BaB class (Ranger is a good choice for Trackless Step and a Favored Enemy, And you probably want to dual-wield with that many sneak attack die anyway). You want to take 4 levels of a full BaB class pre-epic, IE 3 Fighter levels and 1 ranger level. The last fighter level should be taken in Epic at perhaps level 27 or 30, so you can have a discipline dump and get Epic Weapon Specialization.
_________________ Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
You might consider Shadowdancer, but then again everyone does.
I have always fancied rogues and in paticular those who dabble with corner sneaking rather than hipsing.
_________________ ...Hereof follows that the social contract is only beneficial as long as all have something and none have too much... - Rousseau Book 1 Chapter 9 in "The Social Contract"
I say go for Rogue (30). Multiclass to Fighter will get you another attack, but the AB on the 4th attack will be low, and you'll get 6 damage per hit, when staying as a Rogue for those same levels could get you Sneak Attack +4d6. Pure Rogue = Awesome.
Bah, whattayaget for Rogue 30? Rogue 29/Ranger 1 for the extra Epic Feat, AE and Discipline dump. Having a beefcake AE'd beast around to setup those massive sneaks will be delicious if you are in a small party or the setup isn't just right. Landing on your butt from KD or having your Dex tank from a Called Shot leg is no picnic either so get some discipline.
The gnome idea is superb though. Everyone assumes the gnome is a mage and a kooky one at that. 19D6 sneaks?, whachout! It'll be feast or famine on damage output but the feasting will be spiffy.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
23Rogue/Ftr6/Other1 is the chassis, but if you're going to specialise in Sneaks, then CoT is better than Ftr. I personally prefer having the +6 damage from Ftr6 as backup to when Sneakwhoring fails, but anyone who's ever seen Ron's sneakosaurus in action will know that when it works, it utterly works.
Them options:
Ranger1: taken in epic for free Epic Weapon Focus or Epic Prowess, Dualwield and +4 Hide/MS outdoors. If you're a melee Rogue, Ranger1 loses a bit of shine since you really want Improved Two Weapon Fighting. As a ranged guy, you'll get more use of Dualwield, but it's a very solid choice for any Sneak-whore whose RP is outdoorsy.
Rogue24: this bags you an epic bonus feat. Not to be sniffed at.
Barb1: taken in pre-epic, this bumps up your Fort and gives that 10% permanent move speed; this is amazingly useful in hit'n'runs for the few-ish people that can survive a cornersneak's first salvo from stealth.
Rogue30 gives more Sneak Attack per hit, but since you lose one attack per round(and very crucially, one in the first flurry if Hasted) you end up with more Sneaks/round with a 21BAB version.
As far as just being a Hidey Movey Silenty person goes, the Ranger flavour wins by +4 Hide/MS outdoors, but otherwise they're much of a muchness.
Say i go with rogue/24/Fighter 5-6/Barb or Ranger 0-1, how would you do the feats? Would I be able to sneak in Imp TWF and wep fcus and imp crit in both a crossbow and melee weapons, as well as taking some + to save feats?
Im pretty set on human, probably Shadovar as base race, I cant really play gnomes, I dont know how to do them properly. Secondly, is picking daggers a horribly bad idea as opposed to shortswords? Daggers just seem more.. stylish. And would a bild bsed on a crossbow work?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
TormakSaber wrote:
I always had the ideal idea of a Paladin using a longsword and a crossbow, but that's because "Crossbow" evokes "Divine" feelings to me.
It also evokes "Dwarf" and I'll always love my PnP concept of a dwarf rogue dual weilding hand crossbows.
I associate crossbows with lack of honour, which kind of conflicts with paladins and the divine, considering the attitude towards crossbows in the medieval times.
A less code-bound sword-and-crossbow knight/nobleman might be awesome though.
But it is obvious that dwarves with crossbows are awesome. More dwarves with more crossbows are more awesome.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
TormakSaber wrote:
I always had the ideal idea of a Paladin using a longsword and a crossbow, but that's because "Crossbow" evokes "Divine" feelings to me.
Yes.
As an adventurer class, the cleric is utterly defined by relying on a numinous source of power. Weak in any mundane sense, but strong in faith; he channels the power of his greater other. To me, a crossbow adds to the overall theme of the cleric, because in many ways the crossbow is the weak man's weapon. Although the energy propelling the bolts technically originate from the wielder, I look at the crossbow as a weapon that enables the wielder to channel the power of technology, as a greater other. At least esthetically, a longbow or an axe emphasizes the adventurer as an independent agent of his own skill and bravado, a crossbow emphasizes the adventurer as a medium of foreign powers.
And that's why my cleric uses a crossbow.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
Last edited by Kjetta on Thu, Sep 10 2009, 23:01 PM, edited 3 times in total.
okie dokes, its getting close to crunch time on decisions.
So far, I've thought of (smurf):
21monk/4fighter/3assassin
other combo's thought up as well:
20monk/7blackguard/1assassin
21monk/4blackguard/3assassin
21monk/7assassin
The trouble with blackguard on a smurf is the negative cha means you have to swap in a +4 nymph cloak so that you don't get a negative save from dark blessing (on a svirf). But in its place, its got all the cool toys fighter just doesn't get.
I know, I could take less monk levels, but I tend to think if I'm going to play monk as the primary class, I want 20 levels of that minimum. The PC is a fisty wisdom based one (but with quite good dex already).
The last build, does 4d6 sneaks but misses out on all the cool extra attacks, AB.
Which of those is best?
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
Hmm, based on those choices I'll go with the 4fighter/3assassin. Thought it feels kind of lacking in that either you'll be getting EWS or 16BAB.
Going 16BAB (6 attacks/round), means you'll only be able to get weapon specialization which is already available via the awesome monk gears in Amia. 3 Extra feats in pre-epic on an, I'm assuming, unarmed monk seems overkill too.
Anyways, since you're going for wis-based, you might want to explore more monk levels to get a good bang on your quivering palm.
Trouble is, I've only got 28 levels to play with. So I could for instance, shoot up to 24monk/4 fighter, 23monk/4fighter/1assassin, given that in fighting spellcasters its essential to have UMD, if only so that you can take down their acid sheaths and/or put up your spell mantles before taking them out with the KD+stun/quivering palm options. Without the 4 warrior levels (BG or Fighter in this case) then you miss out on the AB/Extra attacks needed for PvM + Armoured spellcasters.
Alternatively, I could shoot up to 27monk/1assassin, which would net one up to 45Spell Resistance but then only have 5 to 6 attacks per round instead...and a sucky AB (though good enough to hit most arcane spellcasters). Regardless, a monk without UMD is a dead monk in PvP against spellcasters.
A compromise between the two would be 25monk/3assassin but I don't see much gained in that idea.
Hmm but I see what you're saying 4 fighter levels for 1 extra attack and a few extra feats and only +1AB is expensive when you've few levels to spare.
I think i'll just go 27monk/1assassin.
That way, she'll have all the monk SR+extra skills+90% movement rate+35 to 37DC attacks (I think?)+just enough UMD (10) to net the use of wands/scrolls for extra buffing/spamming breaches. She'll make a reasonable corner sneak too, with 90% move + haste, she could probably strike the mage and go back around the corner before he can say Bigbys!!
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
For me this seems rather stretched out. Would it be better to ditch Two weapon fighting and the melee aspect, or just keep x-bow as a secondary weapon and focus on the melee post-epic to free up feats? And perhaps take fighter levels later and epic dodge earlier?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
So ditch the two weapon fighting feats and weapon focus and specs in melee, and focus on X-bow instead you mean?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Yes. Its a fairly original build then, you'll still end up doing alot of melee in PvM but uberised AB isn't exactly the be all and end all in PvM. Consider minimising your Wisdom aswell and grabbing another point in Dexterity so you don't require the wasted Great Dex Feat.
Pre-epic: Rapid Reload, Imp Critical X-bow, Great Fort, SF Spot, Luck of Heroes at level 1 (3 free)
Pre Epic Fighter Bonus Feats x 3 = Weapon Spec, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus X-bow
Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Great Dex I, Epic Fort, Epic Dodge
Rogue 19 Bonus Feat: ???
Fighter 6 Bonus feat: Epic Weapon Spec x-bow
Ranger Bonus Feat: Epic Weapon Focus
May have left some things out, and you can probably fit in epic WF: Rapier on this build but i can't recall if the Rogue bonus feat can be taken as Great Dex.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Well, for RP reasons i can not go below 10 wisdom, And Im loathe to go below 10 cha as well, but it might be necesary.
So: Rogue 16/Fighter 4 pre epic with focus on X-bow, maybe fit in some candy for a melee weapon, then take ranger at 21 and 2 more fighter levels post epic. I will miss out a rogue bonus feat that way, but they arent really all that good anyway, ranger bonus feat is probably better.
The question then: Can a char actually be usefull with an x-bow as main weapon?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Ranged Sneak-based combat is by a large margin the worst style to be solo or solo tank with, but when you've got someone up front to set up your Sneaks, it's got one big advantage: you can't be blocked by enemy tanks. Nothing's more annoying that getting Ice Stormed, Blade Barriered and Melf Arrowed by the goddamn giant casters because their tubby friends are in the way. The Sneak sniper just drops Conc-breaking DPS into them and giggles from afar.
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
Uberuce wrote:
Ranged Sneak-based combat is by a large margin the worst style to be solo or solo tank with, but when you've got someone up front to set up your Sneaks, it's got one big advantage: you can't be blocked by enemy tanks. Nothing's more annoying that getting Ice Stormed, Blade Barriered and Melf Arrowed by the goddamn giant casters because their tubby friends are in the way. The Sneak sniper just drops Conc-breaking DPS into them and giggles from afar.
Soloing is for losers anyways.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Soloing is for people who might otherwise get a ban because they can't deal with incompetent party members who insist on a stupid out of character looting method because they themselves are untrustworthy.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
MoshingChris wrote:
Soloing is for people who might otherwise get a ban because they can't deal with incompetent party members who insist on a stupid out of character looting method because they themselves are untrustworthy.
Point.
This is why you party with friends though.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
Which all combines pretty much to mean any character with a party-dependent Plan A is best off having a Plan B good enough to get those boredom/poverty relieving loot runs.
Sneak-whore archer is fine in this regard since you can pwn for loot just fine in the Frozen Wastes on normal Knockdown from a Ring of the Ram, even on low 40's AB, which is what you'll get with no focus feats on an Epic Dodger Rogue, topping up with Bless/Aid.
And I did say 'solo tank' as well. A competent mage will be enough of a summon/dominate wrangler and disabler-cannon that you can rack up shooty Sneaks just fine, but competent mages are disgracefully rare, so you're more likely to be saddled with a half-buffed summon and a bloke in GS with his thumb up his arse who barely tops up Haste.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
FAQ
Search
Login
