I don't disagree. I have no personal objections to prostitute PCs approved on a case-by-case basis. (Hence my suggestion for submitting a request for evaluation.) I just think the rule is a good general tool for shaping the atmosphere and attracting the kind of playerbase that I'd like to see on Amia. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind dropping the rule if it was the general consensus (among DMs and/or players), either. There are much worse problems.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
IronAngel wrote:
I don't disagree. I have no personal objections to prostitute PCs approved on a case-by-case basis. (Hence my suggestion for submitting a request for evaluation.)
I do think that's a reasonable requirement too
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
I don't disagree. I have no personal objections to prostitute PCs approved on a case-by-case basis. (Hence my suggestion for submitting a request for evaluation.)
I do think that's a reasonable requirement too
Hm. Then that should be mentioned somewhere. If I would have joined yesterday and encountered a prostitute character I'd never have imagined you needed a request for it.
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
If you read the rest of the thread, you'll see that it did used to be mentioned in the rules, and was removed by mistake. Which infers it'll get re-added sometime.
_________________ Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
IronAngel wrote:
You're mixing things up a bit, GuNz.
I can only speak for myself, but others probably agree, to an extent.
Quote:
What ever happened to not telling people how to RP, as long as they aren't breaking rules? Prostitutes can be RPed without breaking current rules, so whats the big deal?
This is, if you don't mind me saying, quite silly and false. The thing is, selling yourself is breaking the rules. The entire argument falls flat once you realize this. What's against the rules and what's allowed is completely arbitrary. In this case, actively selling sexual favors to other PCs in game is against the rules. So yes, of course we tell you not to do it.
It's not prostitution that's bad. I don't care about NPC hookers, or stories of how your PC used to sell his stuff to the bored ladies of Waterdeep. It's just that I don't want to see players spending time in hotels, back allies and glades socializing, flirting, spending some intimate time and in general, setting up the stage for the likely cybering that will take place on MSN. That's not what Amia is for. We're a setting for you to adventure or take part in the daily life of a fantasy world. Not to gain sexual gratification and treat Amia as a dating forum.
I really don't want to see faction politics and such governed my the promise of sexual favors on MSN, again. Neither do I want to see rich, low-level players who gain access and influence everywhere, because they agree to cyber on MSN in return for stuff in game. It's not unheard of.
Is it a matter of subjective taste? Of course. I'm lucky to be in a position where my personal preferences affect the possibilities of all who play Amia. But then, lucky for you, I'm not the only one in such a position, so the general consensus (hopefully) remains quite tolerant and reasonable.
How is what I'm saying "quite silly and false"? If NPC prostitutes can be prostitutes without breaking rules, how can PC's not? Why can't they just "be prostitutes" but not ever sell to any PC's? Why can't it be said they only sell to certain people who happen to be NPC's? I don't see how what I said is "silly and false" at all. You're just assuming things.
I can only speak for myself, but others probably agree, to an extent.
Quote:
What ever happened to not telling people how to RP, as long as they aren't breaking rules? Prostitutes can be RPed without breaking current rules, so whats the big deal?
This is, if you don't mind me saying, quite silly and false. The thing is, selling yourself is breaking the rules. The entire argument falls flat once you realize this. What's against the rules and what's allowed is completely arbitrary. In this case, actively selling sexual favors to other PCs in game is against the rules. So yes, of course we tell you not to do it.
It's not prostitution that's bad. I don't care about NPC hookers, or stories of how your PC used to sell his stuff to the bored ladies of Waterdeep. It's just that I don't want to see players spending time in hotels, back allies and glades socializing, flirting, spending some intimate time and in general, setting up the stage for the likely cybering that will take place on MSN. That's not what Amia is for. We're a setting for you to adventure or take part in the daily life of a fantasy world. Not to gain sexual gratification and treat Amia as a dating forum.
I really don't want to see faction politics and such governed my the promise of sexual favors on MSN, again. Neither do I want to see rich, low-level players who gain access and influence everywhere, because they agree to cyber on MSN in return for stuff in game. It's not unheard of.
Is it a matter of subjective taste? Of course. I'm lucky to be in a position where my personal preferences affect the possibilities of all who play Amia. But then, lucky for you, I'm not the only one in such a position, so the general consensus (hopefully) remains quite tolerant and reasonable.
How is what I'm saying "quite silly and false"? If NPC prostitutes can be prostitutes without breaking rules, how can PC's not? Why can't they just "be prostitutes" but not ever sell to any PC's? Why can't it be said they only sell to certain people who happen to be NPC's? I don't see how what I said is "silly and false" at all. You're just assuming things.
in this case I think the issue is one of passive inference as opposed to active intent.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
Neus Scario wrote:
I don't think it's silly to assume that if a PC says he's a lumberjack, he cuts down trees.
Generally, yeah, you would be right. But, given the nature and direction of this conversation and considering not everything is RPed out and is simply said to happen, I would have to disagree with you. Take torturers, for example. They exist. Hell, I play one. You just don't RP the bits you're not allowed to.
Mind, I'm playing devils advocate here. I have zero interest in playing a prostitute. I just think there's a bit of a double standard and it's unfair.
Once again this is a debate of ideal vs. practical application. On the side of the ideal, no single concept should be outright prohibited from being played. From this standpoint, saying that playing a prostitute couldn't possibly be fun or interesting or diverse is just presumptuous.
On the side of the practical application, having an idea of what most people who'd play a hooker on Amia would use the character for, keeping the gates barred is the logical conclusion of the rules we have here today.
I'm behind the rules and behind the policy to allow this character if an application is provided. I'm not behind any belittling attitudes towards players that've been expressed in this thread, though. Not everyone's idea of RP is the same, and that's a good thing. If everyone was either a knight or an evil plotter then we might as well play a 2D game.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
xordae wrote:
I'm behind the rules and behind the policy to allow this character if an application is provided. I'm not behind any belittling attitudes towards players that've been expressed in this thread, though. Not everyone's idea of RP is the same, and that's a good thing. If everyone was either a knight or an evil plotter then we might as well play a 2D game.
The above paragraph sums my view on the topic, actually:
RP is a diverse, wide and varied mammal. It's gonna come in gradients of the common flavours, and what people prefer. Saying one flavour should be the norm and (@#$ to all other flavours, is fundamentally wrong.
Understandably because of Amia's 'Business plan' as people like to call it there does need to be some limits. Most people can accept that and RP within them. Those that can't can find their taste elsewhere. *I did at one point, had reasonably good times, and came back*
Besides, it's a bit of a niche department, isn't it? It's not like Amia is going to be known as that server where you are strongly suggested not to play a prostitute. I can imagine more defining attributes.
GuNz, I am speaking of active prostitution RP. Not just "being a prostitute" and never doing anything about it in game. As the first page established, that's fine:
(Missing) Rules wrote:
Roleplay that's clearly sex-driven or promoting cybering, such as prostitution, is not permitted. Sexual roleplaying is not a focus of Amia, and shouldn't be the focus of a character. The DM staff will determine what is "crossing the line" case-by-case. Rape is NEVER an acceptable RP scenario, however, and neither active nor passive contribution is allowed.
I wrote:
I suppose the rule still stands: your character may be a "prostitute" (and a background is perfectly fine), but RPing prostitution with PCs or with specified NPCs isn't allowed. The rule might be reviewed in the future, but I reckon that's how it is now.
Nekh wrote:
Pretty much what Iron said there.
There's a difference between being and doing. We understand that difference, and take it into consideration in these matters.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
I just find it amazing that there is a four page thread on this.
And no one even mentions victimization of women.
Fantasy world. Nobody mentions the fact millions of innocent creatures get slaughtered daily in fantasy worlds.
I find the romanticising of prostitution quite silly, but dunno which is more disturbing in the end, romanticising of prostitution or of genocides.
I guess it's good to assume people know the difference between fantasy and reality, and allow that fantasy as long as it doesn't cause grief to people in reality. Or break the business concept.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Nekhy wrote:
fireprooftroll wrote:
I just find it amazing that there is a four page thread on this.
And no one even mentions victimization of women.
Fantasy world. Nobody mentions the fact millions of innocent creatures get slaughtered daily in fantasy worlds.
That's the point I was trying to raise earlier - Paladins, the 'epitome' of good, routinely commit genocide and half the people on the server go and commit mass-murder of sentient beings for sport. In fact, we are being asked by some to consider this the way things should be in order to be 'heroic' - since everyone knows slaughtering a nest of creatures miles away from anywhere and robbing their room is a perfectly heroic thing to do.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
Well, there you have it then: you can play a prostitute as long as you don't actively seek customers or, of course, cyber. But, still, the DM team discourages you to do so. That about right?
Genocide and rampant slaughter of various creatures performed by adventurers is part of Amia's concept. Prostitution and sexual abuse that comes with it are not part of Amia's concept.
That's all there is to it, to summarise Iron's long ramblings above.
I believe it was brought up in one of the previous discussions on this topic, but I think it's since been pruned. There's also been a discussion on sexual abuse in connection with the cybering rules.
I dont think that anyone who would consider playing a prostitute would consider it a glamorous occupation, "Pretty Lady" notwithstanding. That being said, Xaviera is a caricature, in many ways - she is the 'hooker with a heart of gold'. But I do actually have a friend iRL who was a prostitute for many years, and it messed up her life rather seriously, so I have some familiarity with the reality of it. In fact, I would like to see Phearnun's character concept actually played simply because of the fact that it would (from what I've understood) portray a (somewhat) more 'realistic' side of that sort of life.
NWN is about the romanticization of a pseudo-medieval life. Violence and feudalism and economics and genocide and war - and even prostitution - are made 'fun', otherwise it just wouldnt sell as a game. We can have a discussion on the victimization of women, by all means, but I dont think there's much connect between that topic and this (except insofar as it might desensitize some to the plight of women forced into prostitution, but then we should also discuss desensitization to violence in general...)
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~ Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer Bolt AmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
That's all there is to it, to summarise Iron's long ramblings above.
If you can say something smart and important in but ten words, it's all the smarter and more important if you say it in a hundred words. Less is less and more is more. That's my motto!
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
IronAngel wrote:
Nekhy wrote:
That's all there is to it, to summarise Iron's long ramblings above.
If you can say something smart and important in but ten words, it's all the smarter and more important if you say it in a hundred words. Less is less and more is more. That's my motto!
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